I'm Stumped?

[MtnHillbilly]

OK Newer bow to me and ive been working on arrow flight between cams and grip form to get this shorter to me ATA bow accurate.
Bowtech Solution SS 60# 29.5" draw
Victory VAP TKO 300 cut at 29.5" CTC. Arrow weighing at 477 gr
125 grn point 10 grain collar and 50 grain insert
Ive eliminated the bare shaft hitting target point left by grip change and deadlock cam movement. field point and bare shaft hitting same spot at 20
BUT I can see the bare shaft still kicking ? any help?

 

[BroadHead]

Is it still kicking to the right? If everything else checks out (center shot, timing, etc), try a quick and simple nock tune.

Take that bare shaft and twist the nock 1/4 turn to the right. Shoot. If it doesn't kick, then call it good. Otherwise, keep repeating this process to see if it stops kicking in mid-flight.

This will likely need to be done for all of your arrows if they kick in any direction.

 

[MtnHillbilly]

yeah its still kicking.. center shot is at 13/16 I believe maybe 3/4

arrows are knock vane up on the "spine align" mark and same position for bare shaft.

I originally had 350 arrows per Victory website calculator but everything was worse so picked up 300s and everything seems a little better. maybe I shoot paper? so many opinions about bullet holes at 6 yards

 

[BroadHead]

Shooting through paper would be helpful as it will visually indicate how it's kicking and exactly how wide of a kick. Your spine should be good to go given the total weight of your collar, point and insert. Your FOC percentage is not high/heavy, roughly based on everything up front plus total arrow length (your draw weight is also factored into the equation).

I shoot fixed broadheads and nock tuning was the key to keeping the hair on my head. lol

I was shooting 300 spine but switched to 250. My arrows are cut the same length as yours. Total weight is 500 grains but my FOC is heavy. 300 spine was OK but I could see it wobbling in the air as I released.

By chance, did you switch from one release to another?

 

[MtnHillbilly]

shot paper and had knock right tear with fletched and knock right and a little low with bare shaft
so I moved dead lock cam shooting and got a point of small low tear with fletched arrow but same right tear as the first shot before adjustments.

 

[MtnHillbilly]

Shooting through paper would be helpful as it will visually indicate how it's kicking and exactly how wide of a kick. Your spine should be good to go given the total weight of your collar, point and insert. Your FOC percentage is not high/heavy, roughly based on everything up front plus total arrow length (your draw weight is also factored into the equation).

I shoot fixed broadheads and nock tuning was the key to keeping the hair on my head. lol

I was shooting 300 spine but switched to 250. My arrows are cut the same length as yours. Total weight is 500 grains but my FOC is heavy. 300 spine was OK but I could see it wobbling in the air as I released.

By chance, did you switch from one release to another?

ive been using the same release for the last 18 years. ive tried a couple others over the years and just can't seem to get solid anchor points. and changing releases feels like a draw length change

 

[BroadHead]

I have a sneaking suspicion that your rest is ever slightly kicking your arrows over. If you are a right-handed shooter, can you micro adjust a click or two AWAY from the riser, then try again?

If I recall correctly from your previous post, the shop that did your initial tuning had already shimmed your cams, is that correct?

Sometimes a right tear means you are over-spined, but I do not believe that to be the case here.

 

[MtnHillbilly]

I have a sneaking suspicion that your rest is ever slightly kicking your arrows over. If you are a right-handed shooter, can you micro adjust a click or two AWAY from the riser, then try again?

If I recall correctly from your previous post, the shop that did your initial tuning had already shimmed your cams, is that correct?

Sometimes a right tear means you are over-spined, but I do not believe that to be the case here.

Ive never had this bow at a shop. no shops near me.
I can micro adjust for sure but wouldn't that adjustment make it kick worse? Ive read somewhere that common with these bows center shot at 13/16 then move cams accordingly and the arrow will be pointing left away from riser when shooting bullet holes which is a mind game from what ive done over the last 20 years.
everything feels as though it gets complicated with technology makes me wonder how I killed so many elk over the years

 

[c3]

I'm guessing you have a tiny bit of d-loop interference going on.

Tie in a little thread nocking point on the string below the nock and above the lower nocking point.

It does two things. Keeps the lower nocking point from lifting the arrow at full draw and it puts your release dead in line with the arrow.

Virtually every single top end target and 3D archer has a thread nock point in their d-loop UNDER the arrow to perfect this last little bit of tuning. There are some good pics of Levi Morgan at full draw if you do a image search to get the idea.

I have a Solution SS as well and it should tune perfectly with the arrow right down the center of the grip for center shot. Then adjust the deadlock to get your bare shaft flying perfectly.

Cheers, Pete

 

[MtnHillbilly]

I'll check it out. I had a serving knot under knocking point under arrow and removed it when I decided to raise my knock point. I think I need to lower rest as I still have a tiny low tear with bare shaft so maybe I just raise knock the serving knot and that might take care of that?but I was having the issue with that as well.
I originally raised knock point to remove the low tear I had.

I'm trying 11/16 center shot today as I read somewhere that's what many people have had to do to keep arrow alignment? but now its raining! we haven't had rain in months

 

[MtnHillbilly]

well after hours of moving stuff and shooting paper with crazy results I was close. I gave up on paper and landed on a center shot at 3/4" cams moved around until I was at 20 yards bare shaft hitting target straight and 1" left of fletched arrow. almost looks like the fletched are kicking now but I can't really tell. since I don't plan to shoot beyond 30 yards this season I'm gonna tune my fixed blades and go with it. Unless someone has a better offering on what to do? thanks for the advice thus far!

 

[matt23]

well after hours of moving stuff and shooting paper with crazy results I was close. I gave up on paper and landed on a center shot at 3/4" cams moved around until I was at 20 yards bare shaft hitting target straight and 1" left of fletched arrow. almost looks like the fletched are kicking now but I can't really tell. since I don't plan to shoot beyond 30 yards this season I'm gonna tune my fixed blades and go with it. Unless someone has a better offering on what to do? thanks for the advice thus far!

I just had this same issue a few weeks ago. The timing on my rest was very sensitive. Adjusted a little and was shooting bullet holes. I see above you have messed with the rest but that was my issue. Hope that helps

 

[MtnHillbilly]

I just had this same issue a few weeks ago. The timing on my rest was very sensitive. Adjusted a little and was shooting bullet holes. I see above you have messed with the rest but that was my issue. Hope that helps

yeah im still struggling but feel as though I might be doing something.? Ive never owned a short ATA bow like this but I'm constantly looking at form > im at a point where at 20 my bareshaft arrow hits with fletched and usually entering target straight. I can still see it kicking which gives me pause. I will need to shoot longer distances and also see how broad heads fly?
ive never struggled so much to get a bow tuned! my shoulders do really appreciate the insanely easy draw though so I need to figure this out.

 

[MtnHillbilly]

Im beginning to think my release is the culprit for the inconsistencies I'm having at the moment! I find sometimes I need to reach with my index finger and that in turn 1 changes peep alignment and 2 torques the string. I have a thumb release that I hate! punched myself too many times drawing back and fear a pre release because of it so I'm going to try an index style release and see it goes.

 

[BroadHead]

Good call. Yes, a release will affect all of that (sometimes including draw length). I tried all the fancy ones but man, target panic became a thing so I went back to wrist/index.

Definitely not looking back. It just works for me

 

[MtnHillbilly]

Good call. Yes, a release will affect all of that (sometimes including draw length). I tried all the fancy ones but man, target panic became a thing so I went back to wrist/index.

Definitely not looking back. It just works for me

Yeah for sure .... well I picked up a wrist index style today got peep all tied in and went to shoot and I'm finding myself not being able to use trigger without some sort of wrist/hand rotation. ive lengthened and shortened several times. shortening helps a little but throws everything off and find it extremely difficult to find a consistent anchor point. Ive read and watched so many videos and its crazy how everything seems to be perfect for them ?
beginning to wonder if the bow just doesn't work for me?
sucks with season opening about a week! If my shoulders weren't smoked I'd be shooting months in advance per usual. I really have never had a problem tuning a bow on short notice, this one has been difficult as hell and now just causing stress as I count down the days

 

[BroadHead]

I hear ya. I had a Matthews Triax, which as you know, at 28" axle-to-axle is a really short bow. To make matters worse, I had a high let-off, I think it was 85%. Ridiculous. Not sure what the heck I was thinking.

The short bow plus high let-off equated to comical string torquing. At one point, I laughed so hard at full draw at how easy it was to torque the string that I was very close to twisting the bow 90 degrees and shooting it sideways like the way those gangsters fire their handguns in movies. lol

Hang in there and I hope you can at least find some kind of working setup that will take you through archery season.

 

[MtnHillbilly]

Many adjustments later! I haven’t shot through paper but these are 2 different fixed blades matched to field points at 20 yards. Will need to find a place to shoot 30 &40 .

 

[BroadHead]

Very promising, especially with two different field points! Awesome update

 

[Tank]

One thing that I have found very helpful, is using a white posterboard pinned to my target. I make a penny sized "Dot" to shoot at with a sharpie. Then I go back to 35yrds. The white background allows me to see any arrow kick much easier. I'm a fan of paper tuning, but you kill bulls with broadheads. So getting it close with paper tuning, and then tuning to the broadhead IS the priority. I have found that I torque my bow often, and so I look for consistency (Not perfection) and focus on good arrow flight.
I'm also a fan of Victory Vap arrows. But not all of the "spine aligned" marks are acurate. I use paper tuning to find the true spine of every arrow, and then mark the arrow. Then when I fletch, I know that my spine is always up, on every arrow. That gives me the most consistency for my shooting.
Last thing that I believe is really important with Vap Outserts, is to trash the aluminum outserts, and spend the money to get Easton titanium Half Outs. The titanium is much more resistant to bending. A bent aluminum outsert throws all the work you're doing out the window. Been there, done that...