IMPORTANT - The Trail Camera Hearing is One week away

javihammer said:
Interesting, earlier in this thread you said you were undecided on the issue and now like a day later you are speaking the corporate line about supporting memory card cameras and are against cell cameras. I suspect you have been a camera man all along ?.

I would say I am shocked but I already covered this little bait and switch cellular/memory card argument over a week ago on the original trail camera thread that got buried deeper on the Utah forum. Predictable.

Also predictable and covered in the other thread is the tactic of puffing the numbers to suggest the ban opponents are equal to the supporters. This is the same thing Heaton did in his reply to another hunter and you seemed to support it. The goal of the puffing the anti regulation numbers is to plead for middle ground when there is no valid reason at all for the board to soften the language of the original regulation.

Ryan
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I never said I didnt run cameras. I just said I was undecided on the issue. I have my opinions on what I would support and what I wouldn't but open to hear others. I don't think im puffing any numbers. Im just going off of what the survey said and what I have heard talking to others. I think if we want true numbers lets survey all applicants before applying for big game hunts. Then we would actually know what everybody wants. Same thing with a harvest survey before applying for the big game hunts. Lets get some actual hard numbers to base are decisions off of.
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
I don't care at all. but what pisses me off is when people say they don't help in any way and they truly know what they do.
I could care less which way this goes. I just want this crap over with.
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I do agree with you cameras help won't argue with that. But are they helping guys be successful more then any other tools? I would say no. Are they destroying the health and numbers of the herds? I would say no. This is a social issue so what hunting tool are we going to eliminate next in the name of an unfair social issue. When are we going to actually do something that actually helps the overall herd numbers? I am guessing the majority of people that are saying ban cameras would cry and complain if we said no deer tags this year to help the herds. Its all take and no give.
 
BigBuckz said:
I do agree with you cameras help won't argue with that. But are they helping guys be successful more then any other tools? I would say no. Are they destroying the health and numbers of the herds? I would say no. This is a social issue so what hunting tool are we going to eliminate next in the name of an unfair social issue. When are we going to actually do something that actually helps the overall herd numbers? I am guessing the majority of people that are saying ban cameras would cry and complain if we said no deer tags this year to help the herds. Its all take and no give.
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Haha I like this
"I am guessing the majority of people that are saying ban cameras would cry and complain if we said no deer tags this year to help the herds. Its all take and no give."

Give a little like, oh I don't know a camera season
 
The head of the Arizona fish and game commissioner determined the cameras violate the fair chase doctrine which pays respect to the traditions of hunting and fishing by emphasizing the development of an individuals skills rather than reliance on practices or technologies to overwhelm the quarry s ability to elude detection or take.. biologists also determined the cameras on water holes change the daily patterns of the animal for the worse.
 
Horsecorn said:
Ban um
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elkhunter81 said:
Haha I like this
"I am guessing the majority of people that are saying ban cameras would cry and complain if we said no deer tags this year to help the herds. Its all take and no give."

Give a little like, oh I don't know a camera season
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But why just take from guys who use trail cameras? What are the anti camera guys going to give up? We both hunt the same resource just have different ways of hunting.
 
Horsecorn said:
The head of the Arizona fish and game commissioner determined the cameras violate the fair chase doctrine which pays respect to the traditions of hunting and fishing by emphasizing the development of an individuals skills rather than reliance on practices or technologies to overwhelm the quarry s ability to elude detection or take.. biologists also determined the cameras on water holes change the daily patterns of the animal for the worse.
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Oh so because the head of the Arizonia fish and game commissioner said so. I don't disagree they probably was causing issues on water holes in "Arizonia" so address the problem. We are talking Utah now. What specific areas do we have that high traffic issues on water holes or guzzlers because of cameras like Arizonia was experiencing? Did are division or biologists do there own studies?
 
Horsecorn said:
sorry bigbuckz they do have an impact on numbers and health of the animals. Why don’t you read what Arizona biologists say about it..
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So what you going to say is causing the decline of the herds in a couple years when we still have low numbers and we have no trail cameras to blame them on?
 
Why do you keep bringing up all the stupid scenarios that has nothing to do With the trail camera ban. ( what if an asteroid hit the earth and wiped us all out too. Then we couldn’t hunt). Dah
 
I get it bigbuck you just don’t know how to hunt without them cameras. You wouldn’t even know where to start..
 
Horsecorn said:
Why do you keep bringing up all the stupid scenarios that has nothing to do With the trail camera ban. ( what if an asteroid hit the earth and wiped us all out too. Then we couldn’t hunt). Dah
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Im pretty sure everything I have said has been about the trail camera ban. Give me your "why" you want this trail camera ban. Im really curious.
 
elkhunter81 said:
I will say it again, a camera season is not a wildlife management tool. It is a hunter management tool. Will a camera season save the herds nope, but will it help take some pressure off an area or a animal that otherwise wouldn't have been found?
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So we are concerned about a few animals that wont be found by getting rid of cameras? Why don't we worry about are declining numbers and solve that problem not try and save a couple special animals. I do not believe its going to take pressure off an area or animals. You will still have guys out glassing and scouting more now on the landscape instead of cameras.
 
I already have. I agree with what Arizona says about it. All thsee technology advancements has to stop somewhere. We have an unfair advantage over the animals.. it’s stupid when each outfitter is running thousands of cameras And the flat brimmers are selling pictures to the highest bidder. Do you think that’s fair?
 
Horsecorn said:
I get it bigbuck you just don’t know how to hunt without them cameras. You wouldn’t even know where to start..
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Sounds like an anti camera guy response. I don't need cameras to hunt. I enjoy the cameras its part of my hunt. It will not stop me from being successful and turning up quality animals if they got rid of them.
 
Horsecorn said:
I already have. I agree with what Arizona says about it. All thsee technology advancements has to stop somewhere. We have an unfair advantage over the animals.. it’s stupid when each outfitter is running thousands of cameras And the flat brimmers are selling pictures to the highest bidder. Do you think that’s fair?
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Sounds like jealousy to me. So if we give up trail cameras. What unfair advantage are you willing to give up to help out since your so concerned about the animals?
 
BigBuckz said:
I think you would actually be suprised how much truth there is too that. I don't agree with cell cameras but have no issue with SD card internal memory cameras. I am just an average DIY hunter with no outfitter or guide interest.
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Why is that you joined yesterday and every post of yours is Pro Cam? Picked a great time to create a account? Most likely your a guide or outfitter trying to muddy the water?
Wierd
 
treedagain said:
Why is that you joined yesterday and every post of yours is Pro Cam? Picked a great time to create a account? Most likely your a guide or outfitter trying to muddy the water?
Wierd
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I joined years ago. I just don't comment much. I am not a guide or outfitter. I didnt realize trying to have a conversation about a topic was trying to muddy water.
 
everyone who wants to ban cameras because of outfitters doesn't realize this is just going to push more people to hire an outfitter. For example a guy that has put in for desert sheep, or any other limited tag all his life finally draws a tag in a unit a few hours from home and wants to try diy. He can go buy a couple 35 dollar cams and try to learn where sheep might be hanging out. OR cams are not an option and like most people he has a 9-5 job and cant spend weeks scouting, his next best option is to hire an outfitter.
 
Horsecorn said:
Yup I have 15 cameras myself. I know what they do for an advantage over the animals.. time to make it fair again..
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So getting rid of trail cameras levels the playing field for the animals? Optics, Rangefinders, etc. Im sure you would be willing to get rid of all of those for the animals. Right? Or are they less effective then trail cameras.
 
deserthnt said:
everyone who wants to ban cameras because of outfitters doesn't realize this is just going to push more people to hire an outfitter. For example a guy that has put in for desert sheep, or any other limited tag all his life finally draws a tag in a unit a few hours from home and wants to try diy. He can go buy a couple 35 dollar cams and try to learn where sheep might be hanging out. OR cams are not an option and like most people he has a 9-5 job and cant spend weeks scouting, his next best option is to hire an outfitter.
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Yep the money he saved from not buying 35 dollar cams he can fork out a few thousand for a guide. Or maybe he can run cameras during the season get a game plan and go hunt. Sure animals will move, but a tag is an opportunity to pursue/ harvest a animal not a guarantee kill
 
Just like I said why are you bringing up all these other, ban this ban that crap. It’s only about cameras not all the other stuff you keep bringing up.
 
[QUOTE="deserthnt,
everyone who wants to ban cameras because of outfitters doesn't realize this is just going to push more people to hire an outfitter. For example a guy that has put in for desert sheep, or any other limited tag all his life finally draws a tag in a unit a few hours from home and wants to try diy. He can go buy a couple 35 dollar cams and try to learn where sheep might be hanging out. OR cams are not an option and like most people he has a 9-5 job and cant spend weeks scouting, his next best option is to hire an outfitter.
[/QUOTE]
Another new poster. I am sure a long time lurker?
 
Horsecorn said:
What do you mean me giving something up.. it’s not about anything except the camera ban.
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For now, when the cameras are gone and the deer herds are still getting worse what is next on the list? Horses or mules give an advantage lets put a date on riding them. Atvs and utvs are a tool that aid in the take of big game lets get rid of those. If we are being honest a camera tells you where a deer was not where his is so maybe optics are the real reason our deer herd is so poor no more binos spotting scopes or rangefinders. where does it end?
 
deserthnt said:
everyone who wants to ban cameras because of outfitters doesn't realize this is just going to push more people to hire an outfitter. For example a guy that has put in for desert sheep, or any other limited tag all his life finally draws a tag in a unit a few hours from home and wants to try diy. He can go buy a couple 35 dollar cams and try to learn where sheep might be hanging out. OR cams are not an option and like most people he has a 9-5 job and cant spend weeks scouting, his next best option is to hire an outfitter.
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It’s not going to make more people hire guides. Oh Im sure everone has 8,000 grand laying around to hire a guide. We all have jobs. Go hunt like we used to geesus
 
treedagain said:
[QUOTE="deserthnt,
everyone who wants to ban cameras because of outfitters doesn't realize this is just going to push more people to hire an outfitter. For example a guy that has put in for desert sheep, or any other limited tag all his life finally draws a tag in a unit a few hours from home and wants to try diy. He can go buy a couple 35 dollar cams and try to learn where sheep might be hanging out. OR cams are not an option and like most people he has a 9-5 job and cant spend weeks scouting, his next best option is to hire an outfitter.
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Another new poster. I am sure a long time lurker?
[/QUOTE]
I have been on here off and on for over 15 years, didnt realize I had to get my post count up to be considered relevant
 
Horsecorn said:
It’s not going to make more people hire guides. Oh Im sure everone has 8,000 grand laying around to hire a guide. We all have jobs. Go hunt like we used to geesus
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spend it in gas or spend it on a guide. most people who have a almost once in a lifetime tag will spend it either way. I would rather see them spend it on the experience and have the best chance a filling their tag
 
another thing I dont understand is why are we giving out tags and then trying to keep people from filling that tag. If to many animals are being killed limit tags.
 
Hell if your talking about giving them the best chance then maybe you wouldn’t mind me flying a helecopter to spot them and then me taking my spot light out in the middle of the night and blasting them eyeballs. I waited so long for a tag so why not .
 
Horsecorn said:
Hell if your talking about giving them the best chance then maybe you wouldn’t mind me flying a helecopter to spot them and then me taking my spot light out in the middle of the night and blasting them eyeballs. I waited so long for a tag so why not .
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you can legally fly a helicopter and spotlight 48 hours before the hunt. So your saying its better to allow big money to fly right before the hunt starts but the average guy has to have cameras pulled end of july. in most cases months before his hunt starts. I would agree that transmitting cameras are too much, but an internal storage camera has to be checked in the field before any knowledge is gained
 
elkhunter81 said:
I will say it again, a camera season is not a wildlife management tool. It is a hunter management tool. Will a camera season save the herds nope, but will it help take some pressure off an area or a animal that otherwise wouldn't have been found?
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Trail cameras are a great tool to spread out pressure. I use cameras to find deer in low density areas away from the crowds. If cameras are gone you will see pressure increase in areas that are easier to glass and will probably cause more hunter conflict.
 
Horsecorn said:
You two guys are tied in with the outfitters. ill bet money, they sent you here.I’m convinced now.
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No I am a guy that runs cameras as a hobby with my wife and kids. The reason I am here is because my hobby is being attacked by people who feel they are the moral authority. How is me running cameras as a hobby different from people who ride horses or atvs as a hobby. Everyone enjoys our public lands in their own way and I am not trying to take away the way you choose to enjoy it. My kids enjoy checking cameras more than hunting. I use them for trapping and photography in general outside of hunting. This season would take that away from me.
 
deserthnt said:
Trail cameras are a great tool to spread out pressure. I use cameras to find deer in low density areas away from the crowds. If cameras are gone you will see pressure increase in areas that are easier to glass and will probably cause more hunter conflict.
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Thank you
yes cameras are a great tool they target herds/ bucks/bulls and can help aid and take of those animals.
They target animals period and right there you will be lost and can’t hunt without them.
Maybe in your area but in my unit they are scattered all over cameras on top of cameras and on every waterhole try again there I’ve seen this all over the state especially the last 5 years.
LE units are even worse.
 
Horsecorn said:
You two guys are tied in with the outfitters. ill bet money, they sent you here.I’m convinced now.
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How much money you willing too loose on that bet. I have zero ties with any outfitter. Because I enjoy trail cameras I have to be tied to an outfitter? I hate to break it to you but there's more average guys out here that like camera's then your think.
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Thank you
yes cameras are a great tool they target herds/ bucks/bulls and can help aid and take of those animals.
They target animals period and right there you will be lost and can’t hunt without them.
Maybe in your area but in my unit they are scattered all over cameras on top of cameras and on every waterhole try again there I’ve seen this all over the state especially the last 5 years.
LE units are even worse.
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I hunted the pine valley unit in 18 and I know what you mean by tons of cameras on waterholes. This was a good indication to me that pressure in these areas was going to be really high so I went elsewhere. I did go back to these areas during the hunt and just as I figured it was pretty crowded and most people I talked to didnt even run cameras. getting the cameras off the water hole is not going to change how many people are in the field during the hunt
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Thank you
yes cameras are a great tool they target herds/ bucks/bulls and can help aid and take of those animals.
They target animals period and right there you will be lost and can’t hunt without them.
Maybe in your area but in my unit they are scattered all over cameras on top of cameras and on every waterhole try again there I’ve seen this all over the state especially the last 5 years.
LE units are even worse.
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I laugh every time a guy says "you will be lost without your cameras". You have to already know how to hunt too run successful trail cameras. If I go to a waterhole that has that many cameras that tells me I don't want to hunt there.
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Thank you
yes cameras are a great tool they target herds/ bucks/bulls and can help aid and take of those animals.
They target animals period and right there you will be lost and can’t hunt without them.
Maybe in your area but in my unit they are scattered all over cameras on top of cameras and on every waterhole try again there I’ve seen this all over the state especially the last 5 years.
LE units are even worse.
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and saying I cant hunt without them is laughable. I have run cameras for almost 15 years and I have yet to kill an animal that I found with a camera. I have only killed one deer in utah in the last 4 years because I have passed up deer I would have shot if I had not known about a bigger deer in the area. I will admit because of cameras I have chased some giant deer around and most of them I have never actually laid eyes on. I have killed alot of animals and every animal I have killed was found with optics not cameras.
 
deserthnt said:
No I am a guy that runs cameras as a hobby with my wife and kids. The reason I am here is because my hobby is being attacked by people who feel they are the moral authority. How is me running cameras as a hobby different from people who ride horses or atvs as a hobby. Everyone enjoys our public lands in their own way and I am not trying to take away the way you choose to enjoy it. My kids enjoy checking cameras more than hunting. I use them for trapping and photography in general outside of hunting. This season would take that away from me.
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I run cameras as well and my kids really enjoy them as well go bark up another tree

They still will enjoy them either way but this kicking and screaming I can’t hunt without them is getting old all you guys that are against the ban all you are doing is making it worse for all of us.
If they get flat out banned tomorrow we know who to reach out to.
deserthnt said:
and saying I cant hunt without them is laughable. I have run cameras for almost 15 years and I have yet to kill an animal that I found with a camera. I have only killed one deer in utah in the last 4 years because I have passed up deer I would have shot if I had not known about a bigger deer in the area. I will admit because of cameras I have chased some giant deer around and most of them I have never actually laid eyes on. I have killed alot of animals and every animal I have killed was found with optics not cameras.
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But you have targeted them because of your cameras. that’s what this is all about targeting animals.
I know what they do I have 12 cameras of my own.

If cameras don’t help you at all then what’s the problem with having season dates then?
Nice try it is laughable.
 
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Elkslayer2015 said:
I run cameras as well and my kids really enjoy them as well go bark up another tree

They still will enjoy them either way but this kicking and screaming I can’t hunt without them is getting old all you guys that are against the ban all you are doing is making it worse for all of us.
If they get flat out banned tomorrow we know who to reach out to.


But you have targeted them because of your cameras. that’s what this is all about targeting animals.
I know what they do I have 12 cameras of my own.

If cameras don’t help you at all then what’s the problem with having season dates then?
Nice try it is laughable.
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Optics, rangefinders, etc are all tools and ways we target and harvest animals. Why don't we have a season for the rest of the hunting tools? If they get flat out banned I guess ill just use my optics. They are probably my most effective hunting tool anyways won't slow me down a bit. So we should just roll over and not fight for something we are passionate about? Sounds like the typical way now days just pathetic.
 
On a phone call I had with Kevin Albrecht words strait from his mouth told me that him and members of the board are already in talks with legislation to get this passed at the state level for an all out ban between the end of July to January. This means that no cameras can be used on public property for any reason whatsoever without getting a special permit from the division for depridation or academic research etc. This means all cameras even for people who do not hunt. everyone keeps saying the rule just applies to take of big game but there is some stuff going on behind the scenes that is being kept pretty quiet for some reason.
I dont think anyone is saying cameras are not a tool to help in the aid of take. but so is a vehicle, optics weapons, friends etc. when banning cameras doesnt help the deer herds what are we going to loose next.

​

 
BigBuckz said:
Optics, rangefinders, etc are all tools and ways we target and harvest animals. Why don't we have a season for the rest of the hunting tools? If they get flat out banned I guess ill just use my optics. They are probably my most effective hunting tool anyways won't slow me down a bit. So we should just roll over and not fight for something we are passionate about? Sounds like the typical way now days just pathetic.
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We do have season date you can only use a bow/muzzleloader/rifle to harvest a buck or bull if you have a tag.
Yes that tag has a season date on it.
 
BigBuckz said:
Optics, rangefinders, etc are all tools and ways we target and harvest animals. Why don't we have a season for the rest of the hunting tools? If they get flat out banned I guess ill just use my optics. They are probably my most effective hunting tool anyways won't slow me down a bit. So we should just roll over and not fight for something we are passionate about? Sounds like the typical way now days just pathetic.
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Your glass is really beneficial in the middle of the night.
 
deserthnt said:
On a phone call I had with Kevin Albrecht words strait from his mouth told me that him and members of the board are already in talks with legislation to get this passed at the state level for an all out ban between the end of July to January. This means that no cameras can be used on public property for any reason whatsoever without getting a special permit from the division for depridation or academic research etc. This means all cameras even for people who do not hunt. everyone keeps saying the rule just applies to take of big game but there is some stuff going on behind the scenes that is being kept pretty quiet for some reason.
I dont think anyone is saying cameras are not a tool to help in the aid of take. but so is a vehicle, optics weapons, friends etc. when banning cameras doesnt help the deer herds what are we going to loose next.

​

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Kevin is or was a federal biologist I guess you probably knew that.
Kevin no fool he knows what effect cameras have on wildlife.
We didn’t have cameras 30 years ago and we where just fine and we had pretty good optics then I hunted with open sites had no problem with it and I will have no problem with it now.
We all had vehicles we all had the best of the best hunting gear for that time frame

But we as hunter’s and I mean all of us think where entitled to everything.
We have caused this mess we all want the latest and greatest of the new technology

the DWR didn’t cause this mess you can sit here and point blame at them all you want but they cut tags drastically in the early 90s over a 100,000 tags and we still haven’t rebounded.
Until we can figure out how to save doe’s and fawn will never grow a herd.
But we sure can try and bring quality of our buck and bulls back by not targeting them.
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
We do have season date you can only use a bow/muzzleloader/rifle to harvest a buck or bull if you have a tag.
Yes that tag has a season date on it.
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I said a season on the rest of the hunting tools optics,rangefinder,etc we use them just like a trail camera. Of course a tag has a season date on it. In my opinion the tag should have less days on it. 14 day archery hunts 7 day muzzleloader hunts 5 day rifle hunts. That would actually give the animals a chance and might do something for the herds.
 
BigBuckz said:
I said a season on the rest of the hunting tools optics,rangefinder,etc we use them just like a trail camera. Of course a tag has a season date on it. In my opinion the tag should have less days on it. 14 day archery hunts 7 day muzzleloader hunts 5 day rifle hunts. That would actually give the animals a chance and might do something for the herds.
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We start saving doe’s and fawn then we will have a herd period.
 
BigBuckz said:
I said a season on the rest of the hunting tools optics,rangefinder,etc we use them just like a trail camera. Of course a tag has a season date on it. In my opinion the tag should have less days on it. 14 day archery hunts 7 day muzzleloader hunts 5 day rifle hunts. That would actually give the animals a chance and might do something for the herds.
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Nope do you realize that don’t work 90% of the animals are harvested in the first three days of hunting.
You know why never mind I don’t have to explain.
You love your cameras
 
JakeH said:
Your glass is really beneficial in the middle of the night.
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Nope but as soon as its light that glass sure works pretty good. Last time I checked it was still illegal to hunt at night???? Is that when these trail cameras are killing all these animals. Finally figured it out
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Nope do you realize that don’t work 90% of the animals are harvested in the first three days of hunting.
You know why never mind I don’t have to explain.
You love your cameras
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Well if were that successful in 3 days sounds like we better go to 1 day hunts. They did 5 day rifle hunts years ago seen lots of bucks after the hunts.
 
elkantlers said:
People with flat brim hats, mullets and still living with their parents shouldn't be allowed to give comments.
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Lets hear your "why" trail cameras should be banned? Also what's your thoughts on how we can improve the herds and numbers that are declining?
 
BigBuckz said:
Have not heard of a trail camera killing a doe or fawn yet. Guess we can rule out trail cameras why we can't grow a herd.
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Hahaha okay there slick.
You need to really do your research. Does trail cameras target certain animals yes. I take it you probably watched the fire bull video?Hush shows step by step exactly what they do I know for a fact trail cameras targeted that bull.
And while your at it watch the other 1000 videos that show the same thing.
You can thank technology for this YouTube instagram Facebook.if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes I probably would be on your side on this.
The problem with this ban/season date is pretty simple.
is a trail camera a want or a need?
It’s a want just like optics. We don’t need it
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Kevin is or was a federal biologist I guess you probably knew that.
Kevin no fool he knows what effect cameras have on wildlife.
We didn’t have cameras 30 years ago and we where just fine and we had pretty good optics then I hunted with open sites had no problem with it and I will have no problem with it now.
We all had vehicles we all had the best of the best hunting gear for that time frame

But we as hunter’s and I mean all of us think where entitled to everything.
We have caused this mess we all want the latest and greatest of the new technology

the DWR didn’t cause this mess you can sit here and point blame at them all you want but they cut tags drastically in the early 90s over a 100,000 tags and we still haven’t rebounded.
Until we can figure out how to save doe’s and fawn will never grow a herd.
But we sure can try and bring quality of our buck and bulls back by not targeting them.
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Kevin also agreed with me that banning cameras will not help our deer herds he said it is a social issue.
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Hahaha okay there slick.
You need to really do your research. Does trail cameras target certain animals yes. I take it you probably watched the fire bull video?Hush shows step by step exactly what they do I know for a fact trail cameras targeted that bull.
And while your at it watch the other 1000 videos that show the same thing.
You can thank technology for this YouTube instagram Facebook.if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes I probably would be on your side on this.
The problem with this ban/season date is pretty simple.
is a trail camera a want or a need?
It’s a want just like optics. We don’t need it
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We are talking about a doe and a fawn growing a herd. Last time I checked the fire bull was a mature bull kinda of the ones we should target for a healthy herd. Have not seen a bull pop out a calf yet.
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Hahaha okay there slick.
You need to really do your research. Does trail cameras target certain animals yes. I take it you probably watched the fire bull video?Hush shows step by step exactly what they do I know for a fact trail cameras targeted that bull.
And while your at it watch the other 1000 videos that show the same thing.
You can thank technology for this YouTube instagram Facebook.if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes I probably would be on your side on this.
The problem with this ban/season date is pretty simple.
is a trail camera a want or a need?
It’s a want just like optics. We don’t need it
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So you would be fine with a ban/season on your optics because its a want?
 
Horsecorn said:
You two guys are idiots. I give up.
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Hey, I realize you’re getting punched out but I’m enjoying this. Don’t give up. :)

Im going to start a poll and ask all the sheep hunters if they used cameras :ROFLMAO:

Its plain for anyone to see that if cameras didn’t work, people wouldn’t be making fools out of themselves trying to justify their use.
 
Bluehair said:
Hey, I realize you’re getting punched out but I’m enjoying this. Don’t give up. :)

Im going to start a poll and ask all the sheep hunters if they used cameras :ROFLMAO:

Its plain for anyone to see that if cameras didn’t work, people wouldn’t be making fools out of themselves trying to justify their use.
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Been on a bunch of sheep hunts, never used a camera.
 
BigBuckz said:
So what is it about? Why are we doing it if it has no benefit to improve the herds.
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Well you tell me what this is all about? I've done my homework I know what there trying to do.
You should know what this is about by now?
It's not about growing a herd at all;)
I have watched every video from the RAC and the wildlife board for the last 3 years.
I watched all of the RAC meeting and the wildlife board meeting going into where we are today.

Did you attend the RAC meeting no you didn't did you go to the Board meeting no you didn't and I know for a fact you weren't there. But if you where there you didn't speak.
Now you guys get involved over a little thing Like a trail camera that don't help in targeting or Aid/take. this is unreal you guys are showing your true colors right now.
 
BigBuckz said:
I do agree with you cameras help won't argue with that. But are they helping guys be successful more then any other tools? I would say no. Are they destroying the health and numbers of the herds? I would say no. This is a social issue so what hunting tool are we going to eliminate next in the name of an unfair social issue. When are we going to actually do something that actually helps the overall herd numbers? I am guessing the majority of people that are saying ban cameras would cry and complain if we said no deer tags this year to help the herds. Its all take.
Click to expand...


Yep dismiss this as a social issue. Common tactic, as is the appeal for more data which will be a common rally cry in the hearing today from people wishing to stall the implementation of the regulation. These calls for science will not come from scientists, just young camera jockeys trying to save their jobs.

After significant debate the arguments from the outfitters are the same. Not a single new piece of support from the anti regulation crowd, just more logical fallacy arguments and predictable restates. Weak.

Ryan
 
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BigBuckz said:
But why just take from guys who use trail cameras? What are the anti camera guys going to give up? We both hunt the same resource just have different ways of hunting.
Click to expand...
I didn't see this one.

Do you think the camera guys are the only ones loosing out on this?
Think again we all are making a sacrifice here.
I know a lot of hunters that run cameras and they are okay with it.
Even myself, but I do realize and understand what cameras do. I know exactly what the DWR is trying to do. ( I did my homework)
I know a lot of hunters that run cameras and they are okay with it.
Something needs to be done.
we have to start somewhere and I think the DWR started in the right place.
This is where hunting season starts by scouting and locating animals.
 
Horsecorn said:
sorry bigbuckz they do have an impact on numbers and health of the animals. Why don’t you read what Arizona biologists say about it..
Click to expand...

There are different dynamics at play in AZ an UT. It's like WalMart in Vernal as the happenin' place compared to SLC...
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
I didn't see this one.

Do you think the camera guys are the only ones loosing out on this?
Think again we all are making a sacrifice here.
I know a lot of hunters that run cameras and they are okay with it.
Even myself, but I do realize and understand what cameras do. I know exactly what the DWR is trying to do. ( I did my homework)
I know a lot of hunters that run cameras and they are okay with it.
Something needs to be done.
we have to start somewhere and I think the DWR started in the right place.
This is where hunting season starts by scouting and locating animals.
Click to expand...

I hope these threads get "resurrected" in 5 years to discuss the positive impact restricting camera use 15 days before the general season archery opener had on bucks and bulls.

We all know development and drought have ZERO to do with it...
 
So im not a guide or outfitter and I like internal memory cameras weird I know. Do I need cameras? No but I enjoy them they are part of my hunt and the way I like to hunt. If the regulations stand on them today im still going to hunt and grind just as hard. Guys that hunt hard and consistently harvest big animals are still going to do just that. I promise we don't need them to be successful we are still going to get it done. So my question is what are you guys going to try and take from us next to bring us down to your pathetic level? It feel bad for you guys it must suck to suck. Don't worry hunting will be fair and equal one day for you guys. Maybe one day everybody will get participation trophy's at end the of the season. Keep it up will be there in know time.
 
BigBuckz said:
Do I need cameras? No but I enjoy them they are part of my hunt and the way I like to hunt. If the regulations stand on them today im still going to hunt and grind just as hard. Guys that hunt hard and consistently harvest big animals are still going to do just that. I promise we don't need them to be successful we are still going to get it done.
Click to expand...
What is the problem with season dates then?
 
BigBuckz said:
So my question is what are you guys going to try and take from us next to bring us down to your pathetic level? It feel bad for you guys it must suck to suck. Don't worry hunting will be fair and equal one day for you guys. Maybe one day everybody will get participation trophy's at end the of the season. Keep it up will be there in know time.
Click to expand...
Where not trying to take anything. you do know we are all in this together?
you think your only loosing out on this think again.There are 1,000 of hunters that are willing to give up there cameras for this Remember I run cameras.

I'm infavor of this because we need to act and start somewheres I truly think where moving in the right direction.

I asure I wont have any problem hunting or filling my tag.
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
What is the problem with season dates then?
Click to expand...
I enjoy watching animals all year long. I have some animals that don't even show up to the areas until the proposed season dates. Just FYI these are animals I will probably never have a tag too hunt. If people don't want to run cameras during that time you have the choice to not have them out during that time. You don't have to have a season or ban to stop you from putting them out you could just do it willingly. Nobody was trying to stop you from not putting them out.
 
BigBuckz said:
I enjoy watching animals all year long. I have some animals that don't even show up to the areas until the proposed season dates. Just FYI these are animals I will probably never have a tag too hunt. If people don't want to run cameras during that time you have the choice to not have them out during that time. You don't have to have a season or ban to stop you from putting them out you could just do it willingly. Nobody was trying to stop you from not putting them out.
Click to expand...
If you think you will never have a tag.
Then your good you can still run them for that unit all season so what's is the problem then
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Where not trying to take anything. you do know we are all in this together?
you think your only loosing out on this think again.There are 1,000 of hunters that are willing to give up there cameras for this Remember I run cameras.

I'm infavor of this because we need to act and start somewheres I truly think where moving in the right direction.

I asure I wont have any problem hunting or filling my tag.
Click to expand...
I am in favor of regulations on cellular transmitting cameras but I think the SD card camera regulations went to far. I think the division proposals was a good balance.
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
If you think you will never have a tag.
Then your good you can still run them for that unit all season so what's is the problem then
Click to expand...
For as much homework as you claim you have done you might want to do a little more. They are working right now with legislation to make it an all ban not cameras period. If that happens then NO I will not beable to run my cameras on units I have no tags for all season. That was per a conversation with kevin albrect.
 
BigBuckz said:
For as much homework as you claim you have done you might want to do a little more. They are working right now with legislation to make it an all ban not cameras period. If that happens then NO I will not beable to run my cameras on units I have no tags for all season. That was per a conversation with kevin albrect.
Click to expand...
I’ve done my homework a heck a lot more than you.
But I will say this I hope after all this Whining and complaining you should be at this meeting.by the way are you? I know damn good and well you didn’t go to any of the RAC meetings or the board meeting To express your concerns.
It don’t matter 73 people won’t change there mind.
Actually it’s less than that because the ones that have spoken that are in favor of the seasonal trail cameras out weigh the people that are against it.
 
How do the wildlife board membership work? Can you vote/petition them out or does it not work like that? I am just curious because if a handful of guys make the rules for all of us there should be a way to vote on who is representing us? I ask because I really don't know how that works.
 

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