Interesting Trib Article

[adamsoa]

Ranchers want bison herds culled in Henry Mountains
Wildlife ? They say too many species, including cattle, compete for winter feed.
By Brett Prettyman

The Salt Lake Tribune

Updated: 04/01/2010 11:25:58 AM MDT


Ranchers told the Utah Wildlife Board there is too much competition for the winter range on the Henry Mountains in southern Utah. They, along with Wayne County commissioners and the Utah Farm Bureau, want the state to do more to control bison and elk populations.

The Utah Wildlife Board met at the State Capitol Wednesday to approve a new five-year management plan for the state's elk herds, but bison emerged as the hot topic.

"The winter range is critical," said David Brinkerhoff, with the Henry Mountain Grazing Association. "We have bison, livestock, elk and antelope all competing. If we continue to [manage] it the way we have in the past, we will lose the deer herd. I don't know how we can support the increase of numbers."

Brinkerhoff said cattle grazers are already voluntarily reducing the number of animals they have on the land and they would like to see the state find ways to reduce the bison numbers.

But the Wildlife Board was only scheduled to set the number of bison hunting permits on the Henry Mountains Wednesday, not change the plan -- which would require a series of public meetings. The board approved the DWR's proposal of 39 permits, saying that an additional 10 permits through carry-over from last year and conservation tags will help get the population to a goal of 305.

Elk management has traditionally been a hotly debated item in Utah, but Wednesday's approval was met with little resistance and no changes to the DWR's plan. The committee and the DWR, based on the survey, proposed changes for the state's elk hunting units that reflect hunters' wishes to hunt mature bulls with larger antlers.

To reach out for those hunters who wanted more opportunities, the DWR proposed increasing the number of elk permits.




respect my authorita

 

[ColoradoOak]

Maybe SFW can get them a few bison permits to shut them up?

 

[grizzly]

I have said all along that rachers are not our friends.

Grizzly

 

[TheElitehornhunter]

Ranchers should be required to get their cattle off the winter range.

 

[stinkystomper]

If I want to expand in the oilfield I have to come up with the money and buy more rigs on my own. If I was like a rancher the government would say no no take our rig and make miniscual paymennts on it. There's no difference. To make money those ranchers need land for their green backs to graze on. If I want more money I have to go purchase any and all needed items necessary to make money on my own. Long story short, go buy deeded ground and put your cattle there. Get a loan for the land and figure it out on your own like the rest of us do. It's the american way and to let them have their cattle on state and federal grounds is the same as welfare. Might as well just give them all government housing in new orleans while were at it.




ego participate in Monasteriense muleys proinde ego sum bardus (I participate on monstermuleys therefore I am stupid)

 

[HKShooter]

Hummm let's see...elk, bison, antelope, deer and cattle. I'm fine with them all, just put a season on all of them. And throw sheep in there too.

HK

 

[TheElitehornhunter]

The American way works if even a redneck can own oil rigs.

Stinky I still need to give you that buttercup.

 

[swbuckmaster]

+1 stinky

it has also been my experience that some of the poorest farmers have 4 door dodge trucks, giant tractors, multiple barns, rv's, wheelers, houses, and property. wish I was that poor! wish i could get a social hand out like they can.

love to have a utard redneck sheep hunt. I think some of these sheep herders are missing the big picture and could increase their bottom line. Just think if they let the rams grow their horns and gave out tags to hunt their herd on public free land. it would be a great kids hunt, bow hunt if you could get your dog to choke down that greasy sheep meat.

Nets are for fish!!

 

[cannonball]

Cattlemen are friends to themselves, but they can also be a friend to the sportsmen. My question is why are there antelope and elk on the Henries? Let the deer and buffalo flourish there, keep those other two off of the mountain.

 

[buttshot]

HKshooter ,,,, +1

 

[theox]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-02-10 AT 11:16PM (MST)[p]
Did you guys read the article???? my he11 it said the ranchers vountarily decreased there cattle numbers and suggested the same on bison to help the deer herd!? thats what i read.. what did you guys read?!! let me guess it went something like this.... blah blah theres a bunch of dirty rotten greedy ranchers on the henrys!? screw the wildlife make room more my beef that i run on your public lands.

you guys are insane. especially elite get a life most cattle are winter ranged on private grounds.

grizz- ranchers are your equals they sit right along side you. how many ranchers do you know that dont hunt?
wow maybe you guys should find a better hobby than fighting the ranchers. try the anti hunters instead of cannablizing against your own kind

swb- a saying- to every sccessful rancher there is a wife working in town. many ranchers and farmers do multiple things my parents for instance run cattle, farm hay, have a owner/operator trucking company and my mom also drives school bus. yes they have a few nice things but they work for it! you guys need to quit taking your frustration out on ranchers. many are as honest and hardworking as they come. and many will never ever see an elk tag from the 100 tags some want. so get over it. there are far more than 100 ranchers in the state of utah so how is every evil rancher gonna get a tag? geez guys. this site is turning into witch hunts for he11 sakes first sfw now ranchers, whats next?!

 

[sageadvice]

theox said, "a saying- to every sccessful rancher there is a wife working in town."

...and i heard that behind every successful wife working in town, is some dude staring at her ass!

Joey

 

[theox]

>theox said, "a saying- to every
>sccessful rancher there is a
>wife working in town."
>
>...and i heard that behind every
>successful wife working in town,
>is some dude staring at
>her ass!
>
>Joey


hahaha thats funny

 

[grizzly]

theox,

Every rancher I know hunts, every rancher I know also takes welfare handouts from the federal government to protect their grazing "rights". When ranchers start paying grazing fees comparable to rates on private land, I will shut up. When ranchers start standing on their own two feet instead of billions of dollars in federal aid, I will shut up. We are paying farmers with our tax money to not farm.

Will you please pay me to not work?

I live in N. Utah. I can point to one rancher in Cache Valley who shot over 100 elk with spotlights at night for eating alfalfa. They would call DWR in the morning and DWR would come load the carcasses and take them away. The family bragged to me that they had totally decimated the elk herd in just 6 weeks. They are really watching out for sportsmen.

I can also point to just about every other rancher who posts their private property to keep hunters out, but then demands to use federal lands for their own personal benefit, and then not even pay fair market value for it. They might as well stand in line for a welfare check.

They can get off their high-horses about the guzzlers they install; how many guzzlers are they installing on land that they don't already graze; and any riparian zone within their allotment is absolutely destroyed by cattle. We are far worse off with them.

As an industry, they are hypocrites.

Grizzly

 

[theox]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-03-10 AT 12:09PM (MST)[p]grizz i dont care you have had a bad experiance with a few ranchers there are plenty of idiots in every occupation.
the govt hands money to anyone not just ranchers there are plenty of grants for students, there are lots of programs also for many classes that can be govt grant money its not just ranchers and farmers getting stuff.in the same case would you not take money that someone handed you? we hyave never gotten any grant from the govt. quit putting every rancher in the category of the few bad ones you have met.


for the guzzlers how many have you installed anywhere!?! as a sportsmen your a hypocrit

we have nearly 11,000 acres of unposted private property. i dont blame people for posting private tho, the reason property gets posted is becasue there are a few idiots that leave gates open, steal stuff and tear private property up. do you blame them? would you want someone walking through your yard tearing things up stealing stuff,leaving the gates open letting your dogs out.there are a lot of ranchers and farmers that if you just ask will let you hunt there property.

im sorry about the elk that were decimated i definantly dont agree with it.but dont put me in the same category casue one rancher did it! there are non ranchers and farmers that poach also, but im not calling you a poacher. i dont get the bitterness towards ranchers. i just dont get it.im sorry but it sounds out of desperation and jealousy. apply for your own blm permit do what you want on it.

i dont have anything else to post on this topic im sick of all this witch hunting on this site! everybody but the average joe schmo hunter is evil on this site. my he11 its getting ridiculous. the hunting season needs to hurry up and get here so you guys can do something other than whine and bich about everyone that is better off than yourself!~

 

[ramtagless]

Wow. Funny stuff considering the tax benefits given to the oil and gas industry, not to mention the amount of oil and gas production on public land.

 

[ramtagless]

Damnit. This was supposed to go under post 4. How do you make that stick?

 

[woodruffhunter]

The Ox:

You are welcome at my hunting camp anytime. Ranchers are definately my friends. Comparing them to welfare cases is sick and pathetic.

If i had people cutting my fences, tearing up my roads, and disrespecting my property, I would post it as well.

Grouping ranchers from experience a previous poster had had is not only a cheap shot but pathetic.

And Stinky: You want them to go out and pay fair market value for the ground. Don't try to tell me that a rancher is supposed to compete dollar wise with a land developer.

I would rather give the rancher a good deal and keep the ranching way of life going.

I hope you ranchers that are reading the comments "ranchers are not our friends" know that many other sportsman don't feel this way; myself included.

 

[theox]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-03-10 AT 04:29PM (MST)[p]thanks woodruff but becareful you may end up in the mm witch hunts

stinky- not sure if your jokin ...but arent the oilfields usually on public land? i know your not buying the land you drill on

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

I will be right there with ya Woody and Ox! Only on this hunt the witches will shoot back.


It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com

 

[longhorns26]

I'm fortunate to have the ability to hunt 8 states a year across the West. I've had more issues and problems with ranchers in each of the states than I care to count. I don't doubt the strong work ethics they possess, however in my experiences they are not friends of sportsman. Dispite what anyone says, the ranchers are out to make money. This dictates their every decision, and they won't bend for wildlife or sportsman if it interfers with making them money. Don't be fooled by what certain individuals are saying about how ranchers benefit wildlife. They are trying to exploit the resources available to them and if the wildlife benefits after they make the money, then they will claim responsibility for that as well.

 

[theox]

longhorn what sort of issues do you run into with ranchers? and is this like trepassing haha or public land?

 

[grizzly]

theox,

---When I was attending USU, I did not accept student grants, though I did accept student loans, I paid every cent back, plus interest...so I can say that I would turn down government handouts.

I am currently employed in an industry directly to real estate, so the $8,000 Tax Credit for first-time homebuyers puts more money in my pocket, yet I oppose it. Because I practice what I preach.

---I don't know how many guzzlers I have helped install, or bitterbrush I have planted, I don't keep track of the hours and money I donate to wildlife. Never had a reason to.

---If I owned a ranch, I would post it. I don't blame people for posting their land. My blame is with the hypocrites who post their land, then hunt state-owned game off of it, all the while raping our public land for a small percentage of fair market value then complaining about their "rights" as in "grazing rights".

---I know there are nice ranchers. My beef (ha ha) is with the industry, associations, and general mindset of dependance that is now so proliferant among those ranchers. When the industry stops taking advantage of huge earmark packages from their legislators and stands on their own two feet. We can talk.

---Whomever compared ranchers to oil companies...are you kidding me? Very few industries are reviled more than oil companies. Quit giving them money too.

Grizzly

 

[grizzly]

Woodruffhunter,

You said, "If i had people cutting my fences, tearing up my roads, and disrespecting my property, I would post it as well."

I couldn't agree more, but look in the mirror. Cattle and sheep decimate fences, often requiring more fences, chew new-growth aspens to the dirt, turn a lush meadow to dust and dried leaves, run deer and elk off of calving grounds, turn water holes to mud pits and riparian zones into crap-infested bogs.

Ranchers are disrespecting MY property, and the property of all Americans. And we pay them to do it. Then they have the audicity to complain about their "rights" and ask for more handouts. It is a welfare case. And their general attitude IS sick and pathetic.

Grizzly

 

[theox]

are you kidding me grizz? first off cattle dont decimate fences its the freaking elk! who do you think fixes those fences? the ranchers. second cattle turn water holes into mudpits? please! once again that would be the elk. third cattle dont run anything off.cattle elk and deer can and do live by each other. oh and elk love to eat the tender young aspens. cattle dont turn meadows into dust they dont even have teeth on ther top jaw so they can only eat grass down to about 2-3 inches high. sounds to me you have elk and cattle confused. becuase everything you named is exacty what the elk do!

 

[woodruffhunter]

"I couldn't agree more, but look in the mirror. Cattle and sheep decimate fences, often requiring more fences, chew new-growth aspens to the dirt, turn a lush meadow to dust and dried leaves, run deer and elk off of calving grounds, turn water holes to mud pits and riparian zones into crap-infested bogs"

I can partially see your point. I would agree that ranchers should be responsible for their cattle- fix fences, take care of problems and respect the property.

But, we need to be careful lumping ranchers together and labeling them as all bad. We are better off working with them. In other words its give and take. Ranching is an American way of life. It would be ridiculous to take this away from ranchers. If they "tear up" the land, then they can fix it.

Our true fight is against the Lib's and Anti's.

 

[grizzly]

theox,

Cattle ruin fences...to say otherwise is disingenuous.

But the major flaw in your argument is the fact that we wouldn't even have fences to get ruined if it weren't for ranchers.

My firm belief is that cattle do more damage to riparian zones than elk. But that is arguing symantics. We can leave it at that.

Grizzly

 

[adamsoa]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-10 AT 10:57AM (MST)[p]OX,

You might want to rethink your last comment before you decide too keep it. My family has run quite a few cows too. All on private with NO elk. Guess what? It takes a lot of effort because cow's do a lot of interesting things. They run through and knock down fences, beat up equipment, trample water sources and cause quite a bit of wear. Ranching cattle would be a peice of cake if all you did was let a few cows out and take a vacation.

I like the how you try to make cows enviornmentally friendly, they cause no damage to anything its all the elk's fault.......Have you tought yours to wipe their hooves off before they come into the house.

respect my authorita

 

[REDDOG]

"Ranching cattle would be a peice of cake if all you did was let a few cows out and take a vacation"

Ummm, your telling that to a free grazer, that's what they do.

 

[adamsoa]

Ya, I get that. But he was complaining about fences and water. Kind of supprising that there are any clean streams or springs anywhere in elk country though dontcha think?????

respect my authorita

 

[theox]

nah i know cows tear things up but the way grizz put it the elk cause no damage either. saying cows make mudpits when elk wallow in mud. saying cattle tear fences up when elk destroy them. etc. he was making a double standard. elk do everything he said the cattle do i wasa making a point.

im not gonna sit and argue with you guys over this. its stupid. you guys are as ignorant as i am, we will sit and argue back and forth and not get anyway its stupid.im sick of it.

 

[HornyMan]

Federal ranching > welfare program.

I don't feel for ranchers complaining about public use for their own personal gain.

 

[Hawkeye]

After following this thread for a couple of days, I decided to jump into the fray. My grandfather was a rancher in Wyoming for years, and I am generally pro-rancher. However, there has to be a balance and moderation in all things.

I sat in on the Wildlife Board meeting last week and listened to the public input regarding the buffalo herd on the Henry Mountains. Prior to attending that meeting, I knew nothing about the dispute. Afer listening to the public comments, however, I was irritated with the ranchers. Several representatives from ranching and grazing associations asked the Board to revise the management plan and issue more buffalo permits. Based upon what I heard, these same groups apparently relied upon the management plan over the last couple of years to ask the Board to increase permits in an effort to reduce the herd to the management objective (305 adults and yearlings). Now, after the Board issued LOTS and LOTS of tags for the past couple years and herd was reduced to the management objective, those same groups are complaining that the management plan should be revised so that the herd can be further reduced. The Wayne County Board of Commissioners even sent a letter to the Board complaining about how hard it is for local ranchers to earn a living with all of the buffalo on the Henry Mountains.

I was happy to see the Board rejected the ranchers' request and stuck with the management plan. I appreciate the fact that ranchers work hard to earn a living. We all do. I somewhat understand why we grant ranchers highly subsidized grazing permits on public lands. However, it was frustrating to listen to the ranchers argue against the very same plan that they previously championed and relied upon in an effort to further reduce the number of buffalo on the mountain. And finally, the mere thought of giving permits to ranchers in an effort to "compensate" them for wildlife competing with their livestock on public lands makes my blood boil. I hope we never go down that road.

Did anyone else attend the Wildlife Board Meeting? If so, I would welcome your thoughts and comments.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD

 

[grizzly]

Hawkeye, thanks for attending and for the information.

Grizzly

 

[cantkillathing]

It is amazing to me how the dwr and sfw and other groups have put in 1.4 million dollars on the ground on the Henries this last year to help create more sustainable habitat.
My question is how much did the cattlemen put in on projects?

if you do the math there is 305 buffalo on the henries that equals out to be about $4500 per buffalo being invested.

There is currently on the Henries 7300 head of cattle. So if my math is correct the Cattlemen should be putting about 32.8 million dollars on the ground for habitat improvement. I will bet you that the cattlemen dont put $10,000 dollars into improvements, if they would have been putting money back into the public grounds that they feed on then we wouldn't be worrying about feed.
I for one dont like the battle between cattlemen and sportsmen, they could do a lot of good together if both are willing to compromise. There needs to be a battle with the BLM and ForestService to allow more projects to happen, there are too many environmental studies that take years before sportsmen can do projects. Cattlemen and Sportsmen need to push for better management of public grounds. The BLM and Forest service have mismanaged public property for years and there needs to be push for more open areas, more chainings, more feed for both cattle and wildlife. there is thousands of acres that is untouched by any species because it is over populated with cedar trees, old chained areas have grown back to be cedar infested areas. A push needs to happen and it needs to be from both cattlemen and sportsmen. We need to ask for better use of public property, better management of our grounds.
Anyway that is my .2 cents.

 

[cantkillathing]

Must have chimed in to late to get any response.

 

[400bullelk]

The economy sucks, but if I don't make good business decisions, and run a profitable business. I am done. That is how it is, survival of the fittest. When business is bad, I have to be smarter, or I am done. Do something different. Why is it, when ranchers are out competeted with other ranchers, they get a handout/bailout. I am sorry that ranchers loose everything, but what about all the other Americans loosing everything. It's life. And for the abuses that a lot of them do to our public lands, is B.S. I can't even believe that an argument has been started, on what is more destructive to the environment, cattle/sheep or deer/elk/buffalo. It makes as much sense as killing off more of the free roaming buffalo, a true rarity and treasure, so that some poor ranchers can run more cattle on public ground?????