JESUS FREAKS!

T

triggerman308

Guest
"I know men and I tell you that Jesus Christ is no nere man. Between him and every other person in the world there is no possible term of comparison. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creation of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded his empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for him."- NAPOLEON BONAPARTE

"Even those who have renounced Christianity and attack it, in their inmost being still follow the christian ideal, for hitherto neither their subtlety nor the ardour of their hearts has been able to create a higher ideal of man and of virtue than the ideal given by Christ of old."- FYODOR DOSTOYEVSKY

"A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for the good of others, including his enemies, and became the ransom of the world. It was a perfect act."-MAHATMA GHANDI

"I am a historian, I am not a beliver, but I must confess as a historian that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is irrevocably the very center of history. Jesus Christ is easily the most dominant figure in all history."- H.G. WELLS

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST...
"As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene...No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."-ALBERT EINSTEIN


Some of these individuals may not have been belivers, but apparently they had a measure of repsect for Jesus Christ. Thats more than I can say for a few select individuals here on MM.

MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!
 
Interesting. Jal?l ad-D?n Muḥammad R?m? also known as Mevlana wrote poetry about Jesus. I actually got to see the "wedding" performance in Konya, Turkey on the 721st anniversary of his meeting with God in 1994. (1207-1273 AD). Some of you may have heard about the Whirling Dervishes. I am Christian to the core, but there was something in that performance that moved me. The man had love in his soul for all humans and I wish everyone had the same feelings for our fellow man. God bless you all and we wish you a very merry Christmas from the Land of Enchantment!

Is? Masih, as he is called in Arabic, literally means ?Jesus the Messiah?. Muslims believe in the ?virgin birth? of Jesus Christ. According to the Qur?an (15: 29; 38: 72), the Divine (Allah) breathed his spirit into Adam when he created humanity. Sufis extend this quality to the virgin birth of Jesus through Mary (Mariyam in Arabic, which is also the title of the chapter 19 in the Qur?an) so that Jesus was born without an earthly father. This is consistent with the Islamic epithet of Jesus as the Divine Spirit (Ruh Allah) among the prophets (in a similar vein, Abraham is called Khalil Allah, the Loyal Friend of God, and Moses Kalim Allah, the Interlocutor and Conversant with God). The Divine Spirit or Holy Spirit as a medium between the Divine and the world of creation is called Ruh al-Qods in the Quran. Sufis particularly praise the purity and piety of Mary, and emphasize that the same Holy Spirit does wonders with every human who is devoted to the Divine.
 
the biggest feat Satan has accomplished in this century, is, to convince people that he (devil) doesn't exist...

the second is convincing people that Jesus did not rise from the dead, well somebody should of told his disciples cause they suffered horrible deaths for their faith

I know of some who were boiled in oil, now who would do that for a rumor......
wow for just an ordinary man they died, wow, they must have known something.

hey dude would you die for your faith in atheism or better yet, for science, those are both faiths...
 
Science isn't a superstition it requires no faith.

God has done a better job of not existing than the devil has.
 
"Science isn't a superstition it requires no faith."

Thats a lie.
You choose 440 to have faith in man and science when it comes to evolution. There is no proof of evolution my friend, none, zip, zero. Any scientist who is speaking the truth will tell you the same. So quit lieing about science not requiring faith.




"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
" god created science too " holy crap that's so predictable.

Science requires faith? more like logic, logic is different than faith. your faith in something that has no proof of existence whatsoever and never has is illogical.
 
Excatly, god created everything so that explains everything. end of story shut up or burn in hell.


If that's true why did god create me or allow me to live and call BS on him? take your time and come up with an answer other than "the devil" that's just too weak even for you.
 
Why does it always seem that the people that claim they are the most religious are also the most judgemental, as well as the most self-righteous? Did some of you guys get together with Fred Phelps over Christmas and decide how to attack those not like you?
 
True story Corn, I'm no bible scholar but I'm not feeling the love or the turn the other cheek thing. They come just short of threats when they get fired up.

The Jesus like christians pray the heathens like myself find god, the Taliban evangelical christians pray you die in a fire.

I guess every religion has it's douches.
 
You know, I was warned on another site about this forum. They said it was filled by a bunch of mealy mouthed individuals that sat around and insulted each other all day. They were absolutely right. Except its more like a political circle jerk and pissing match, where a bunch of social snakes lay wait for anyone who is either a christian or conservative, then attack those new individuals with everything they've got. Why, it makes them feel good about themselves, I suspect without this little hobby their lives are pretty shallow.

For a few of you like AZWALKER and Stick, thanks for the meaningful conversation you have contributed. I've enjoyed dicussing issues with you without all the insults.

And for those like 440jewhater and Cornhole, you will probably put another notch on your rifle stock now that you've run another christian off. I applaud you two douchebags. You two play that "turn the other cheek"
card thinking all christians are supposed to do so. We are supposed to strive to do such but ofteh fail when confronted by idiots as yourself. Why, because I'm only human and am not perfect.

I'm sure 440jewhater and Cornhole will get on here after I'm gome with their usual schtick and claim that the christian couldn't handle the pressure and had to take his toys and leave, is a douchebag, mock my beliefs, among other insults. Have a party while you're doing boys. No, I'm doing so because after evaluating having meaningless discussions with people like you two, I've concluded I'm better than this.

440 and Cornhole, I hope you find God some day, until then I'll leave you to your circle jerk. Start pulling boys.
 
Triggerdork I'd like to say I'll miss you but I'd be lying.

You're as whacky as Manny but without the charm.
 
WWJD? I'm not Jesus, I'm an imperfect human. We can't and never will live up to the Jesus standard and so you atheists play the hypocrite card. My, how easy it must be for you guys to be blessed with such a gift. At least we have a standard to strive for! You people don't have near enough substance to keep us on our toes. We are supposed to have compassion for nonbelivers, but since you are in blatant denial of God and make jokes of Him...enjoy the afterlife boys!
 
You better enjoy this life cause that's all she wrote.

Reality, what a concept.
 
440 Since evolution has never been proven, yet you still choose to believe in it, then by definition you have faith that evolution is true. Your faith therefore lies in man.






"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
440 said "your faith in something that has no proof of existence whatsoever and never has is illogical."
The same can be said about evolution. There is no conclusive evidence of evolution what so ever, never has been. Its a theory that has never been proven. You have faith though in it that is for sure.



"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
440 said "If that's true why did god create me or allow me to live and call BS on him?

God created you because he loves you and desires to have a relationship with you. He gave you free will to shun him and call B.S. on him because he loves you. He wants to have a relationship with you.
God wants fellowship with you not because of what you are but because of what He is.
He is loving
He is giving
The best He can give is Himself.
He has given you the Holy Spirit so that you might have God living within you. Not in a desert sanctuary or a stone temple, but in a living intimate way.
You can know Him, experience Him, and feel Him.
He made the universe for you.
He created you for Him.
Enjoy Him.



"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
Yes I know your storry 440, all the christians in your life have turned you sour on God. I would tell you that church is an awesome place and christianity is an awesome thing IF it were not for some people. Just because the self righteous people in your life have given you a negative feeling for God does not mean God is bad, it means the people you have contact with are. Go seek him FOR YOUR SELF, put your FAITH in Him not in man as you do now. All Im saying is just try Him, you will be surprised.
In fact I'll even make the deal sweeter for you. If you truely give God a chance and let him into your heart, I will send you another custom labeled bottle of Crown Royal for your effort.





"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
I always took you more as the christian taliban type more than the compasionate christian. while I can't ever see a situation where I could buy into a religion I do respect the offer and the way of putting it I'd think a true christ like christian should. I'm sure we can find a bet to take care of that fifth somewhere.

As I've said before this is not a science vs christanity issue, it's science vs superstition, christanity is just one of many. even if you discount science you still have billions of other people with a conflicting story to yours. science is the one consistant explaination which involves the best minds from every nation and culture. so is it faith or is it just logic to trust what has been proven and what will be over old books with no proof of anything?

In the end it doesn't really matter, just as long as we keep separation of church and state so reality can prevail.
 
Thank you for the kind words 440, my offer still stands if you change your mind.

We will have to agree to disagree on the whole evolution thing. But if you insist there is proof I am sure the rest of the world would like for you to reveal it because as of right now there is no proof at all of evolution.



"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-11 AT 11:42AM (MST)[p]
hey Cornhusker'

I believe your a teacher, right, so i would assume you had to get a degree to be qualified to teach, so it took some studying on your part, right, my point is, you had to have a standard platform of information for which you gleamed your knowledge from, to qualify to get your degree, correct ?...

lets start with this, if you can have an open mind for a few seconds...yes, that was a challenge....

judgmental, adjective

Definition of JUDGMENTAL

given to making or expressing unfavorable judgments about things.

Synonyms: captious, carping, caviling (or cavilling) faultfinding, overcritical, rejective

Related Words: discerning, discriminating, judicious; demanding, exacting, fastidious, nitpicky, particular, picky.

Those interpretations were taken from Webster?s, a modern-day dictionary...

Root word here is; Judgment, when considering this root word we find that only a Judge has the true authority to give a final Judgment, weather in this life or the next.

What you and others like you (Dude) even some wishy washy Christians, believe me they use that word also, don't seem to understand, is, Mature Disciples of Jesus, yes, modern-day Disciples are commanded to call it as they see it, as a matter of fact if they don't it will not be favorable for them when they do meet their maker.

that's what a Christian is, a Disciple a student, one who continues to learn, gleaming their knowledge from the source, The Bible, church is not just a place to sing hymns but & if a Christian is going to a bible based church they are being taught every Wednesday and Sundays the word of God.

The problem here on MM.com, and I speak from experience, people are insulted and harassed and pushed to the limits and like myself, build up a coarse attitude, all because they believe in doing things according to the word of God and are not afraid to say so.

I know that, that is exactly what some on here intended to do, to push people like myself to extremes and purposely trying to get that Christian to openly act like them, so they can show, ... "Hey see your no better then me, your a heathen also"

well, truth be told Christian are as normal as you non-believers, only difference, they've taken on a oath to try and live above the worlds standards and worldly lusts.

you clearly understand not all Christians are for real, many just never were truly changed and don't have a real relationship with Christ and end up being a poor example to the non-believer, when the smoke clears it'll all come down to this, did you have a relationship with the son of God Jesus.

But? be aware we stand and not to yours or 440 standards, you don't get to make the rules for us, the bible say's God disciplines the one he loves, so if we get outta line God will correct us.

I left the mainstream church system back 7 years ago and resigned as pastor of a church in N, Calif. all because I was sick n tired of all the political and money grubbing that was infecting the church system, it's called the prosperity gospel.

I've spent way to much time on MM.com last 7 years, I've enjoyed much but not all of it, and now its time to get back to ministry, I have had an offer to go back into the ministry and I've felt the Lord has prompted me to except the offer.

you see? some here may see my knowledge of the bible as a waste of time but there are some who don't, outside the four walls of MM.com

Cornhusker, If you would spend some of that same energy you used to get your degree and focused it on the bible and end time prophecies for a space you would be a believer also.

you see teach' you hold in your hands young life's those you teach, I doubt you do it just for the money, and God does hold you accountable for their minds.....

I do care for your well being and many others here on MM.com that's why I keep coming back time and time again, after all the Jesus bashing I took from some here, yah I know I've insulted the Mormons on here, again I'm commanded to tell it like it is, 20 years ago i had and angel visit me and he never metioned Joe smith he only spoke of Jesus...

if it don't line up with the bible it's not safe.

Just to prove to some I'm not just here to preach, I posted a pick of my favorite buck I took back in 97, the story was feature in Eastman?s some time back, Mr. D13 don't like my specks but if you can look past them you'll see a good looking buck?

7287my_7x6_buck.jpg


see I am human....

======================
Ezekiel 3:17-19 ?Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of your peoepl. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me. If I say to the wicked, ?You shall surely die,? and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked person shall die for his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die for his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul.

Isaiah 62:6 On your walls, O Jerusalem, I have set watchmen; all the day and all the night they shall never be silent. You who put the Lord in remembrance, take no rest,

Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand.


Amos 3:7
?For the Lord God does nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets.
 
440 THE WHOLE ARTICLE GOES OUT THE WINDOW WITH THIS SENTANCE RIGHT HERE, MADE BY THE AUTHOR
"Living creatures must come from other living creatures. It does no damage to this point to claim that life must have had some origin way back in time, perhaps in a chemical reaction of inorganic materials (in some primordial soup) or in some invasion from outer space. That may well be true. But what is clear is that any such origin for living things or living material must result in a very simple organism. There is no evidence whatsoever (except in science fiction like Frankenstein) that inorganic chemical processes can produce complex, multi-cellular living creatures (the recent experiments cloning sheep, of course, are based on living tissue from other sheep)."
The author uses the words "perhaps". That means he does not know, therefore it is not provable. I'm sorry bro but this guy can only therorise and or have faith in his idea that "perhaps" a space alien or "perhaps" a chemical reaction.





"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
>Here maybe this will help .
>I can lead you to
>common sense but I can't
>make you accept it.
>
>Feel free to have Manny write
>a rebuttal.
>
>
>http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/essays/courtenay1.htm


hey dude, you know what we Christian find amusing, is, atheist's and evo's acting like and making reverence?s to, as if they have a treasure trove of facts to back them up, clearly you and other like you stand on shifting sand your foundation on which you gleam your info from is happenstance at best...

if your kind can come off the pot you sit on for a moment and line up the facts, not the fiction, the Bible would come out far ahead of atheism and evolution, I've said it before aging matter proves nothing, not to mention carbon dating is a faith also?

if I get the time I may just line them up side by side just for you, one thing you can't change buddy, I'm praying for right now?.LOL?..
 
Manny, you know what makes you stupid? You expect us to believe that YOU were visited by an angel some years ago but you scoff at the idea that Joseph Smith was visited by one too. You are the poster child for the dumb. Why are you so special that you were visited by an angel but a young man back in the 1800's who claims the same thing is a blasphemer?

You know what, I was visited by an angel once too. My buddies have all been visited by angels. Hell, we have angels over for dinner all the time. What's the matter, you don't believe me? Am I full of shyt? Well then I guess my choices are to think that either you and JS were visited by angels or the both of you are full of shyt. Which would you rather I believe?
 
202 if the author said he knew for a fact the answers to all the unknowns it would prove he was a hack. the bible does have all the answers if you have enough imagination correct? nuff said.

Science is like a connect the dot game, it has many dots and some blanks but it's very easy to connect them if you're willing to. the bible has one dot, Jesus ( a human ) did live at one time, then there's an oh my god amount of bull crap and superstitios faith to get you to the second dot, we do exist today.

Tough choice but I'm going to have to go with science my imagination is not as grandiose as yours.

Now that that's settled we can move on the the Easter Bunny, but I warn you it may be something else you don't want to know the truth about.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-11 AT 06:29PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-11 AT 06:27?PM (MST)

>Manny, you know what makes you
>stupid? You expect us
>to believe that YOU were
>visited by an angel some
>years ago but you scoff
>at the idea that Joseph
>Smith was visited by one
>too. You are the
>poster child for the dumb.
> Why are you so
>special that you were visited
>by an angel but a
>young man back in the
>1800's who claims the same
>thing is a blasphemer?
>
>You know what, I was visited
>by an angel once too.
> My buddies have all
>been visited by angels.
>Hell, we have angels over
>for dinner all the time.
> What's the matter, you
>don't believe me? Am
>I full of shyt?
>Well then I guess my
>choices are to think that
>either you and JS were
>visited by angels or the
>both of you are full
>of shyt. Which would
>you rather I believe?


Hey Cali, you know what makes you so dumb.....

thanx for proving my point....I never said Joe smith didn't see an angel just not one from God the father, when someone has a visatation from an agle and it leads them in another direction then the bible don't yah think something would be amiss...

hey wanna get more ticked off then you alread are...I met Jesus twice in my lfe also....hey do you feel hot under the collar, you know kinda like hatred.... yah thats the spirit of anti-christ......I'm not special but I am the extreme...

Galatians 1:8 But, even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed....
 
Manny nice deer I like it as well. I won't try to answer or debate at the present time. I have killed 22 deer with a bow, unfortunately this morning I made a less than perfect shot on a nice muley I have been looking since 9:30 I'm to tired to think right now. I'll get to it later. I believe this might be the first deer I have ever shot I might loose. It was real open country I watched him walk stumbling down a canyon and lay down when I got there he was done I followed the blood trail for at least 1/2 mile before I lost it in big bluestem up to my shoulders. So far no luck.

Anyhow let me clarify some things because I think you may have misunderstand some of my ideas on things and that comes from my background.
1. I went to St. Richards Catholic elementary school and St. Alberts high school and Midland Lutheran University.

2. So I do have a religious background I'm not an atheist I do believe in God.

3. I simply don't like one religion pushing their beliefs on another religion or a non-believer.

4. I have 18 hours of theology at the university I went to, just enough to know we don't all use the same bible or in the case of this site the Book Of Mormon. I don't know that they are wrong neither do you or others who condemn their thoughts.

5. I have no problem with Christianity, Buddhism, Shintoism, Islam, Hinduism etc.. I believe what I believe but let others choose their thoughts. Such as Dude an it doesn't offend me.

6. I also believe the Bible was written by man and so is subject to man's bias.

I'm shot later.
 
Manny don't sell yourself short, you're " Special "

Corn good luck finding that deer I lost my first one a few years ago and it sucks. do your best and at least you'll have that piece of mind.
 
You see Manny, you'll never get it. How do we know that your "angel" wasn't a demon? Because you say so? And so you know, you holier than thou retards can't piss me off because you bring me too much laughter. It's better than stand up comedy. Remember, I'm not an atheist either. I do believe in a higher power but I don't believe he's going to send 6,999,999,999 people to hell while saves your dumb ass. If YOUR God was such a loving God, don't you think he would have made the owners manual a little more clear so that there wouldn't be thousands of variations of Christianity alone much less non-Christian religions? There's a hell of a lot of Mormans, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. that disagree with YOU but you're telling me that God has a special place in hell for them?

See, the God that I believe in will judge us by our works and not by our memberships. I have a question for you. You probably won't answer it but here it is anyway. The world has roughly 7 billion people in it so would you please calculate for us by subtracting all those that belong to false religions, atheists, murderers, rapists, etc and tell us how many of those 7 billion will be up there with you when shyt goes to pot? Maybe if your math isn't up to par you could ask Jesus when he's over for coffee.
 
Husker said,

Anyhow let me clarify some things because I think you may have misunderstand some of my ideas on things and that comes from my background.

1. I went to St. Richards Catholic elementary school and St. Alberts high school and Midland Lutheran University.

2. So I do have a religious background I'm not an atheist I do believe in God.

3. I simply don't like one religion pushing their beliefs on another religion or a non-believer.

4. I have 18 hours of theology at the university I went to, just enough to know we don't all use the same bible or in the case of this site the Book Of Mormon. I don't know that they are wrong neither do you or others who condemn their thoughts.

5. I have no problem with Christianity, Buddhism, Shintoism, Islam, Hinduism etc.. I believe what I believe but let others choose their thoughts. Such as Dude an it doesn't offend me.

6. I also believe the Bible was written by man and so is subject to man's bias.

Husker,
This is probably the best statement I have seen on here in probably the last almost 2 years of me frequenting this particular section of MM. Seriously I think we should start referring to you as Mr. Renaissance(sp) Man, for that enlightened post. In fact if we would follow #3, #5, and #6, that would probably keep the religious arguments to a minimum around here.
WVBOWAK
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-11 AT 00:16AM (MST)[p]>You see Manny, you'll never get
>it. How do we
>know that your "angel" wasn't
>a demon? Because you
>say so? And so
>you know, you holier than
>thou retards can't piss me
>off because you bring me
>too much laughter. It's
>better than stand up comedy.
> Remember, I'm not an
>atheist either. I do
>believe in a higher power
>but I don't believe he's
>going to send 6,999,999,999 people
>to hell while saves your
>dumb ass. If YOUR
>God was such a loving
>God, don't you think he
>would have made the owners
>manual a little more clear
>so that there wouldn't be
>thousands of variations of Christianity
>alone much less non-Christian religions?
> There's a hell of
>a lot of Mormans, Jews,
>Muslims, Hindus, etc. that disagree
>with YOU but you're telling
>me that God has a
>special place in hell for
>them?
>
>See, the God that I believe
>in will judge us by
>our works and not by
>our memberships. I have
>a question for you.
>You probably won't answer it
>but here it is anyway.
> The world has roughly
>7 billion people in it
>so would you please calculate
>for us by subtracting all
>those that belong to false
>religions, atheists, murderers, rapists, etc
>and tell us how many
>of those 7 billion will
>be up there with you
>when shyt goes to pot?
> Maybe if your math
>isn't up to par you
>could ask Jesus when he's
>over for coffee.


lets start with this, if the Bible is not the standard or plum line, if you will, then there is nothing to go by, and all learning is a waste of time, carnal or religious, so you believe in God? good for you, the bible says that's not enough because the devil believes also and fears God but you don't...Shame... James 2:19 you believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe & he shudders, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.?

you say your working on it? Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.

I won't try to convince you of anything just state the facts as I experienced them, so if the bible is a plum line for religious matters then the answer to you Q about the angel i saw was not a demon, because he spoke of Jesus, do you think Gods arch enemy would direct me to Jesus the son of God his enemy.

Now? Joe Smith's angel sent him on a wild ride and told him write a book contrary to biblical scripture a book which has zero artifacts which can't be substantiated what so ever; now there's your fairy tale right there, who would want to lead people away from the truth... Hmmmm

The bible and its origins, people, cities, ect: have been found to have millions of artifacts and can be traced, not so with Joe smiths claims & his book, not one ancient artifact has been found in utah about Nephi NONE.

look up the Mountain Meadows massacre that Joe smith perpetrated on settlers going westward, this was done in a time mankind was supposed to be enlightened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

your second Q can't be answered even if you were just jesting, because there may be roughly 7 bill people in the world alive today but if we were to do the math as you say, we would have to calculate all those who have died in the last 5,0000 some odd years up till this age, no one but God could calculate that.

I may be a minority here on MM.com but I'm not in the outside world, there many more who take the bible seriously like myself and deal with people like you, I think you guys try so hard to discredit people like myself because you don't want to do it the way the bible says to, you just want it your way by your own standards and I say you are in error there buddy.
 
True, but this isn't one of the Middle Eastern countries where there is no separation of church and state. I like yourself want religious issues not to be the focal point if my ballot decision, I could care less if they are Buddist, Taoist, Christian, Hindu, etc. Oh well we will see how things turn out.
WVBOWAK
 
Agreed, but when freaks like Bachmann and Perry start making campaign promises to the bible thumpers isn't that crossing the line? maybe not legally but in my opinion it's a point the sane population should be concerned and stand up against. Romney, Gingrich and Obama go to church if they didn't they'd be unelectable but they're not preaching, that's normal and of no concern to me.

We have a supreme court to decide what's right in this nation we don't need Fred Phelps for guidence.
 
Manny, get a clue. I'm not saying that the Mormon religion is right or wrong. What I'm asking you is why YOUR God allows so many people to be led astray? Don't give me the free will crap either. My kids have free will too but I try my hardest to steer them on a path to be good. If YOUR God loves his children so much, why doesn't he show himself and squash all the false religions on Earth? Oh wait, I know, he did that two thousand years ago right?

In reference to my question, I am only talking of the 7 billion people ALIVE today. How many of those people are doomed to go to hell. I'll help you out.


Religion Adherents

Christianity 2.1 billion
Islam 1.5 billion
Nonreligious/agnostic/atheism 1.1 billion
Hinduism 900 million
Chinese traditional religion 394 million
Buddhism 376 million
Animist religions 300 million
African Anglicanism/diasporic religions 100 million
Sikhism 23 million
Juche 19 million
Spiritism 15 million
Judaism 14 million
Baha'i 7 million
Jainism 4.2 million
Shinto 4 million
Cao Dai 4 million
Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
Tenrikyo 2 million
Neo-Paganism 1 million
Unitarian Universalism 800,000
Rastafari Movement 600,000


So... if the world population is 6.8 billion and YOU say that only Christians are saved, then... POOF ... 4.7 billion people are going to hell right off the bat. Now, according to you the 2.1 billion who are deemed Christian, are not all true Christian so we have to break it down farther.

Catholics comprise about 1.1 billion of the 2.1 billion so now we're left with 1 billion since the Catholics will burn. So, out of the 1 billion left, it is up to you to tell me which "Christian" religions are false and break it down for us so that we know how many of YOU will be saved.

Can you do it? It should be simple really. Just look up the different Christian religions and their memberships and subtract the false ones from the 1 billion. There is only about 38,000 different versions of Christianity so it shouldn't take you that long. Start with the bigger ones then work your way down.

I know I sound sarcastic but I'm really serious about this. I want to know how many of God's children that are living today are going to perish because of a book that has not only been altered by man but is open for interpretation as well.

Good luck!
 
>Manny, get a clue. I'm
>not saying that the Mormon
>religion is right or wrong.
> What I'm asking you
>is why YOUR God allows
>so many people to be
>led astray? Don't give
>me the free will crap
>either. My kids have
>free will too but I
>try my hardest to steer
>them on a path to
>be good. If YOUR
>God loves his children so
>much, why doesn't he show
>himself and squash all the
>false religions on Earth?
>Oh wait, I know, he
>did that two thousand years
>ago right?
>
>In reference to my question, I
>am only talking of the
>7 billion people ALIVE today.
> How many of those
>people are doomed to go
>to hell. I'll help
>you out.
>
>
>Religion Adherents
>
>Christianity 2.1 billion
>Islam 1.5 billion
>Nonreligious/agnostic/atheism 1.1 billion
>Hinduism 900 million
>Chinese traditional religion 394 million
>Buddhism 376 million
>Animist religions 300 million
>African Anglicanism/diasporic religions 100 million
>Sikhism 23 million
>Juche 19 million
>Spiritism 15 million
>Judaism 14 million
>Baha'i 7 million
>Jainism 4.2 million
>Shinto 4 million
>Cao Dai 4 million
>Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
>Tenrikyo 2 million
>Neo-Paganism 1 million
>Unitarian Universalism 800,000
>Rastafari Movement 600,000
>
>
>So... if the world population is
>6.8 billion and YOU say
>that only Christians are saved,
>then... POOF ... 4.7 billion
>people are going to hell
>right off the bat.
>Now, according to you the
>2.1 billion who are deemed
>Christian, are not all true
>Christian so we have to
>break it down farther.
>
>Catholics comprise about 1.1 billion of
>the 2.1 billion so now
>we're left with 1 billion
>since the Catholics will burn.
> So, out of the
>1 billion left, it is
>up to you to tell
>me which "Christian" religions are
>false and break it down
>for us so that we
>know how many of YOU
>will be saved.
>
>Can you do it? It
>should be simple really.
>Just look up the different
>Christian religions and their memberships
>and subtract the false ones
>from the 1 billion.
>There is only about 38,000
>different versions of Christianity so
>it shouldn't take you that
>long. Start with the
>bigger ones then work your
>way down.
>
>I know I sound sarcastic but
>I'm really serious about this.
> I want to know
>how many of God's children
>that are living today are
>going to perish because of
>a book that has not
>only been altered by man
>but is open for interpretation
>as well.
>
>Good luck!

==============

if being saved was as simple as just joining a religion that was kind and gentle, than sweet! ?? unfortunately it's not that simple, so that's why there will be a judgment day, God in his infinite wisdom will be the only one to sort it all out.

I too was raised a catholic, but when i was 13 I started reading the bible for myself and saw the major discrepancies, i felt lied too, our jobs as humans is to follow the guide lines written in the bible. I've spent half my life looking at and studying other religions, again, comparing them to the plum line, the Bible.

they all failed that's when I became non-denominational, I will not claim my fame to a brand name religion, I wanna make it to our final destination man, i cut out the middle man and went directly to the source, The Bible...

if you wanna read a good book which can answer all your Q'... look up a book called "kingdom of the cults" written by professor Dr. Walter Martin, he covers all religions even some professing Christian ones.

all religions hinge on these scriptures...

Jesus said, "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture." John 10:9

Jesus also said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter in by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber." John 10:1

Jesus said "he is the way the truth the life no one can come to father God except through him, John 14:6

no not Buddha, not Islam nor Harry Krishna not even Judaism will save us only following scripture according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

everything I experienced in my life with God is available to you, you just gotta follow the guides his way not ours....peace out dude, I gotta study......yep you guessed it the bible the word is alive and comes alive when one reads it with an open mind.

Jesus sadi; ?I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Resurrection and The Life; whoever trusts in me, even if he dies, he shall live with me in pardise. St. John 11 ? 25
...
 
So essentially (just as I thought) all those "Christians" who buy into a certain religion are doomed to hell. That wipes out the remaining 1 billion people which leaves only YOU that is saved. I'll gladly take my place in hell, thank you!

I knew you wouldn't take the time to actually say which religions were doomed to hell other than your favorite ones. You say you have spent many years studying religions so why not tell us where they all went wrong? Why not list each different "Christian" version and spell out why they are wrong instead of just proclaiming it. Back your shyt up dude! Tell us why "Christians" are going to hell instead of just saying it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-11 AT 03:30PM (MST)[p]>So essentially (just as I thought)
>all those "Christians" who buy
>into a certain religion are
>doomed to hell. That
>wipes out the remaining 1
>billion people which leaves only
>YOU that is saved.
>I'll gladly take my place
>in hell, thank you!
>
>I knew you wouldn't take the
>time to actually say which
>religions were doomed to hell
>other than your favorite ones.
> You say you have
>spent many years studying religions
>so why not tell us
>where they all went wrong?
> Why not list each
>different "Christian" version and spell
>out why they are wrong
>instead of just proclaiming it.
> Back your shyt up
>dude! Tell us why
>"Christians" are going to hell
>instead of just saying it.
>


dude your blind..........what part of, God is the judge don't you understand, i told you my honest search in my life and what i came up with, you just don't wanna except it so drop it.....again i'm not the only one who came to this conclusion....those scripture i posted speak for themselve's chew on them...

Matthew 7 : Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name, drove out demons in your name, and performed many miracles in your name, didn't we?' But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws, Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock, But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
 
Is it just me or does this god seem like a self centered egomaniac douche?

No wonder the first 4 commandments deal with a serious insecurity problem. by #5 we get around to caring about your parents and not killing folks and trivial crap like that.
 
Yes and George Carlin was able to shorten and make the list easier to follow. Like all of Carlin's standup routines it contains adult language. Enjoy and Happy New Year.


WVBWOAK
 
If God is the judge then why do YOU act so much like him? Then again you do get visits from Jesus so maybe you are him? This is foolish. For ANYONE to claim they have the answers to religion is just dumb. All you have is faith and guess what? So do Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and all other religions. Having faith is fine with me, just don't tell me my faith is wrong and yours is right. It's a lot like saying that Santa is real but the Tooth Fairy isn't. Why is it that you Bible thumping freaks always seem to forget to love thy neighbor as thyself? You're all sinners so stop with the holier than thou crap, it's getting old already.

I don't understand why there are many other God fearing people that frequent this site that can have a conversation about their religious beliefs without saying others that don't share those same beliefs are going to hell. Those people I respect and actually prefer to have religious conversation with. They have FAITH that their beliefs are correct but they don't know for sure either so they don't judge others as you do. One of these days a Muslim might be in a position to save your life and if that happens, I hope you have the balls to tell him he's going to hell. You won't because you're a brainwashed turd.
 
I started at first light this morning looked all day with 2 buddies so I lost the first deer I ever wounded. Replaying the shot which was on the edge of my range with wind, he might survive, poor penetration right behind the front leg about 6" up. I'm late on this discussion so I'll say thank you for the compliment WVbowhunter I myself need to do that more to other. I'll sign off with a Wish That 2012 will bring you all what will make you happy. Happy New Year.
 
Well dude or 440 after a comment like that, if it were up to me, You, and others like you are not worth the dog crap under my boot and I'd wash your mouth out with a douche?!

but let me show what God says about you...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of God, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Luke 23:34 at his crucifixion Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing." And the soldiers gambled for his clothes by throwing dice.

Cali Dude, stop putting words in my mouth, I said God is the judge, I'm just following the blueprints thats all, something you just don't seem to understand....
 
Manny you don't get it, I'm not controlled by fear because I'm 100% positive it's all a hoax. there's no devil, no boogie man and no evil monkey in my bedroom.

You can post bull crap from your storybook all day long and it means nothing to me, I have more fear of getting a ticket for talking on my cell phone while driving.


Corn sorry to hear that. on the positive side a hit like that has a good chance of healing up. think positive.
 
440 SAID "202 if the author said he knew for a fact the answers to all the unknowns it would prove he was a hack. the bible does have all the answers if you have enough imagination correct? nuff said.
Science is like a connect the dot game, it has many dots and some blanks but it's very easy to connect them if you're willing to. the bible has one dot, Jesus ( a human ) did live at one time, then there's an oh my god amount of bull crap and superstitios faith to get you to the second dot, we do exist today.

Tough choice but I'm going to have to go with science my imagination is not as grandiose as yours.

Now that that's settled we can move on the the Easter Bunny, but I warn you it may be something else you don't want to know the truth about.

440 my friend, you made my point for me, you 440 have FAITH in man and in connect the dots. You don't know for certain that evolution is true, BUT you have FAITH that it is.
So as I said early on you my friend put your FAITH in man where I choose to put my FAITH in God.





"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
Gravity is a theory as well, is it faith or logic if I jump out of an airplane I'm going to fall and it's going to hurt?

If I take all the facts we have of evolution it's not faith in the theory it's logic that since there isn't one shred of evidence to the contrary it is so.

Faith is the antithesis to reason, reason is logic. don't confuse logic with faith. there is no logic in your faith because faith is all that exists to support your claims.

Lucky for us trials are based on science and evidence rather than how your church used to take care of such matters isn't it? I wonder why we no longer let church officials decide our guilt based on faith? what you're asking is for me to go back to the times of Torquemada and the witch hunts to explain our beginings and ignore everything we know as logical.
 
How are gravity and evolution related?

The Spanish Inquisition was conducted by individuals for the sheer purpose of political gain and the assumption of power. Done so under the guise of the church. Bad people do bad things don't they? And what a better coverup...the church.
 
Let me also say thats fine with me that you put your Faith in man. I have no problem with it what so ever.





"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
What is science anyway? SCIENCE...the study of

THEOLOGY...the study of the Bible and religion.

Ahhhhh the irony!
 
You can not have it both ways here 440. The fact is evolution is unprovable. PERIOD. You can connect all the dots you want and it may SEEM logical but the FACT still remains it is not a proven fact. If it is tell who and where and when was it proven. You can not. Therefore by definition you are putting FAITH in that evolution is true fact when indeed it is not.





"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
>You can not have it both
>ways here 440. The fact
>is evolution is unprovable. PERIOD.
>You can connect all the
>dots you want and it
>may SEEM logical but the
>FACT still remains it is
>not a proven fact. If
>it is tell who and
>where and when was it
>proven. You can not. Therefore
>by definition you are putting
>FAITH in that evolution is
>true fact when indeed it
>is not.
>

You are playing a game of semantics. If you want to argue that you believe in gravity not because you know it be true but because you have faith that it is true, then fine. (And yes, gravity is subject to the same 'unprovable' nature of a scientific theory that evolution is.) Although I can't PROVE your blue jeans are blue, for all intents and purposes, we will both agree that they are. Same if you throw a ball up into the air. We will both agree that it is going to fall back to earth. We form these conclusions based on observed evidence. And this is exactly how we know that evolution has happened and is happening.
 
"We form these conclusions based on observed evidence. And this is exactly how we know that evolution has happened and is happening."

Please do tell, because if you can prove evolution of man from the primordial goo I am sure there is a Nobel Prize waiting for you. No one has proven evolution and no one ever will in my opinion.






"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
Biblical archeology has dug up just as much evidence in support of the events of the bible as secular archaeology has in support of evolution.
 
>Please do tell, because if you
>can prove evolution of man
>from the primordial goo I
>am sure there is a
>Nobel Prize waiting for you.
>No one has proven evolution
>and no one ever will
>in my opinion.
>

That's because by your definition of 'prove', nothing is provable. If, however, you are claiming that evolution does not have enough factual evidence that everybody, including Republican presidents and the Pope, accepts it as truth, then you are wrong.

I provided plenty of links in the other Atheists thread that you can go read.
 
>Biblical archeology has dug up just
>as much evidence in support
>of the events of the
>bible as secular archaeology has
>in support of evolution.


Seriously, after everything we went through in the other thread you are going to say this? We have fossil records that explain almost everything. You have... a whole bunch of stories that defy scientific laws?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-12 AT 08:10PM (MST)[p]Absolutely, archaeology is a science whether its at an excavation site in the middle east or some remote prairie digging up animal fossils.

There is much archaeological evidence verifying events in the bible just as they were written. If you choose to deny their validity, thats your issue.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-12 AT 10:15PM (MST)[p]My 200th Post in just 10 years! Woo Woo.

Look, this argument ain't never going to be resolved until the day we die.

I believe in god because I want to. I believe in god because I feel a need to.

Religions are manmade. They were a means to control the masses. Religions and having a belief in god are not one in the same. Just being religious isn't going to take you anywhere.

There is only one guarantee to all of this. I can guarantee with 100% percent conviction that, when I die, if my beliefs are wrong, I will not be out anything. An atheist on the other hand....well it will be a real bad day for him, if he is wrong.

That is a heck of a gamble..so goodluck.

I put way more faith in my own feelings, than I do in some bark eating bone digger in Zimbawe telling me there is no god because he found a bone. I am sure he did, and good for him.

But to each his own.
 
>There is much archaeological evidence verifying
>events in the bible just
>as they were written. If
>you choose to deny their
>validity, thats your issue.


I won't deny archaeological evidence. I will, however, deny that there is 'just as much evidence found to support the events of the bible as evolution'. There are some pretty big/important claims in that book that have no evidence. See here: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH120.html
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-12 AT 11:08PM (MST)[p]There are probably too many different variations of the christian religion to count, but they all have one common ground...JOHN 3:16, and that's all that really matters. The rest (religious customs and traditions) is just man made fluff!
 
>Look, this argument ain't never going
>to be resolved until the
>day we die.

If a god existed it could solve it all in an instant!

>
>There is only one guarantee to
>all of this. I can
>guarantee with 100% percent conviction
>that, when I die, if
>my beliefs are wrong, I
>will not be out anything.
>An atheist on the other
>hand....well it will be a
>real bad day for him,
>if he is wrong.
>
>That is a heck of a
>gamble..so goodluck.

Islam would also like to wish you good luck.
More on why this isn't a valid argument: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

>
>I put way more faith in
>my own feelings, than I
>do in some bark eating
>bone digger in Zimbawe telling
>me there is no god
>because he found a bone.
>I am sure he did,
>and good for him.
>

Archaeologists eat bark?
Listen, nobody is saying that fossils disprove a god, but they do contest the Bible's version of how things happened, most especially with respect to a timeline.
 
"That's because by your definition of 'prove', nothing is provable. If, however, you are claiming that evolution does not have enough factual evidence that everybody, including Republican presidents and the Pope, accepts it as truth, then you are wrong."

No sir not wrong at all. What this means is you have faith in the gigantic gaps that evolution folks cling too. Also there is no fosil record of one kind of creature turning into another kind of creature. So if there is no evidence of say a monkey turning into a human then the theory that man came from a apes is false. For example, "the evolutionist claims that it took perhaps fifty million years for a fish to evolve into an amphibian. But, again, there are no transitional forms. For example, not a single fossil with part fins...part feet has been found. And this is true between every major plant and animal kind.Even your boy Darwin stated, "Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?" Yea riddle me that whuppinstick. It goes back to what I have been saying all along. You my friend have FAITH in the theory of evolution/man, I have FAITH in God.






"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-12 AT 07:40AM (MST)[p]OK... after doing some research on the presumed evolution of the Hominids, multiple sources confirm these findings.

a. Homo sapiens and Homo erectus coexisted for a period during the same time frame before erectus became extinct.

b.Homo erectus, Homo neanderthalensis, and Homo heidelbergensis time frames overlapped.

c.Homo habilis, Australopithecus africanus, and A.boisei time frames overlapped.

d. Australopithecus garhi, A. africanus, and A. aethipicus time frames overlapped.

e. Australopithecus africanus, at one time or another shared time with 4 other species of Australopithecus and Homo habilis.

Would some of you esteemed evolutionary geniuses please explain to the rest of us how the alleged precursors to Homo sapiens, exsisted as separate species at the same time? Espcecially explain the instances where there are three separate distinct species of precursors existing at the same time when you evolutionists claim that there is an evolutionary chain and they should have evolved, one from the other. Some of the overlapping time frames of the species aren't short either, some are quite lengthy, and if they did evolve, where are the transitional species or forms?
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-12
>AT 07:40?AM (MST)
>
>OK... after doing some research on
>the presumed evolution of the
>Hominids, multiple sources confirm these
>findings.
>
>a. Homo sapiens and Homo erectus
>coexisted for a period during
>the same time frame before
>erectus became extinct.
>
>b.Homo erectus, Homo neanderthalensis, and Homo
>heidelbergensis time frames overlapped.
>
>c.Homo habilis, Australopithecus africanus, and A.boisei
>time frames overlapped.
>
>d. Australopithecus garhi, A. africanus, and
>A. aethipicus time frames overlapped.
>
>
>e. Australopithecus africanus, at one time
>or another shared time with
>4 other species of Australopithecus
>and Homo habilis.
>
>Would some of you esteemed evolutionary
>geniuses please explain to the
>rest of us how the
>alleged precursors to Homo sapiens,
>exsisted as separate species at
>the same time? Espcecially explain
>the instances where there are
>three separate distinct species of
>precursors existing at the same
>time when you evolutionists claim
>that there is an evolutionary
>chain and they should have
>evolved, one from the other.
>Some of the overlapping time
>frames of the species aren't
>short either, some are quite
>lengthy, and if they did
>evolve, where are the transitional
>species or forms?

WELL SAID!



"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
440 Thats fine, I get it, you don't believe you dont have FAITH in God, thats your choice and I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is, you whuppmynuts portraying Evolution as proven fact when it is not.





"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
Fair enough but one basic question, if god exists why make a game out of it? why is faith required why not prove it? a being that poweful has nothing better to do than sit around for millions of years mindscrewing insignificant humans to see if they're dumb enough to buy illogical crap? com'on really?

If you think evolution has something to prove you answer me this .


atheist.jpg
 
Well the aswer to your question comes in the last sentence of that statement about Atheist. It ask for scientific proof. You want/need scientific proof from man, you put your faith in man, which is fine, just admit it. I however do not require scientific proof, I have faith in God. I have seen what He can do and what He has done in my life and in the lives of others. That is proof enough for me.





"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-12 AT 02:00PM (MST)[p]>Would some of you esteemed evolutionary
>geniuses please explain to the
>rest of us how the
>alleged precursors to Homo sapiens,
>exsisted as separate species at
>the same time? Espcecially explain
>the instances where there are
>three separate distinct species of
>precursors existing at the same
>time when you evolutionists claim
>that there is an evolutionary
>chain and they should have
>evolved, one from the other.
>Some of the overlapping time
>frames of the species aren't
>short either, some are quite
>lengthy, and if they did
>evolve, where are the transitional
>species or forms?


Natural selection.

This is why we have mule deer, blacktail deer, AND whitetail deer. At some point there may have been even more, but definitely also less. As evolution takes place and subpopulations become isolated from other groups of the same species, changes occur. Sometimes this leads to extinction, sometimes it leads to differently specialized species.
 
Nice assumptiom. How many different species of monkeys currently coexist; they didn't evolve from one another. They are separate distinct species existing in the current time frame. You don't have homo erectus one day and then suddenly a homo sapiens falls out of old mama erectus' vagina. Where are the transitional specimens. You evolutionists haven't been able to prove this and likely never will. You can't find the missing link because there likely isn't one! WHERE ARE THE TRANSITIONAL SPECIMENS ?????
 
>How many different species
>of monkeys currently coexist; they
>didn't evolve from one another.

Yes, they did.

>They are separate distinct species
>existing in the current time
>frame.

Yes...

You don't have homo
>erectus one day and then
>suddenly a homo sapiens falls
>out of old mama erectus'
>vagina.

Nobody believes that. Please please please start reading the links I'm providing to evolution. By saying things like this you are just showing how little you understand.


Where are the transitional
>specimens. You evolutionists haven't been
>able to prove this and
>likely never will. You can't
>find the missing link because
>there likely isn't one! WHERE
>ARE THE TRANSITIONAL SPECIMENS ?????
>


Trying to talk science to you is a huge exercise in patience. I have already provided the links to these arguments in the other thread, but you're clearly not reading them.
Once again, try this:

Traditional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

The answers to what traditional fossils are and why there are gaps can be found there. It's too much information for me to post in this forum, which is why I'm giving you links.
 
>What this means is you
>have faith in the gigantic
>gaps that evolution folks cling
>too. Also there is no
>fosil record of one kind
>of creature turning into another
>kind of creature.

Yes, there is. Tons of records, in fact.
See here: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

So if
>there is no evidence of
>say a monkey turning into
>a human then the theory
>that man came from a
>apes is false.

Lack of evidence means something is false? I guess that means God doesn't exist, either...


For example,
>"the evolutionist claims that it
>took perhaps fifty million years
>for a fish to evolve
>into an amphibian. But, again,
>there are no transitional forms.
>For example, not a single
>fossil with part fins...part feet
>has been found.

Yes, there has. It took me about six seconds on Google to find this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/06/science/06fossil.html?pagewanted=all

>Even your
>boy Darwin stated, "Why, if
>species have descended from other
>species by insensibly fine gradations,
>do we not everywhere see
>innumerable transitional forms? Why is
>not all nature in confusion
>instead of the species being,
>as we see them, well
>defined?" Yea riddle me that
>whuppinstick.

You're quote-mining. If you'd bothered to Google that quote you'd see that Darwin went on to explain the answer to his own question.

"On the absence or rarity of transitional varieties. As natural selection acts solely by the preservation of profitable modifications, each new form will tend in a fully-stocked country to take the place of, and finally to exterminate, its own less improved parent or other less-favoured forms with which it comes into competition. Thus extinction and natural selection will, as we have seen, go hand in hand. Hence, if we look at each species as descended from some other unknown form, both the parent and all the transitional varieties will generally have been exterminated by the very process of formation and perfection of the new form.
But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? It will be much more convenient to discuss this question in the chapter on the Imperfection of the geological record; and I will here only state that I believe the answer mainly lies in the record being incomparably less perfect than is generally supposed; the imperfection of the record being chiefly due to organic beings not inhabiting profound depths of the sea, and to their remains being embedded and preserved to a future age only in masses of sediment sufficiently thick and extensive to withstand an enormous amount of future degradation; and such fossiliferous masses can be accumulated only where much sediment is deposited on the shallow bed of the sea, whilst it slowly subsides. These contingencies will concur only rarely, and after enormously long intervals. Whilst the bed of the sea is stationary or is rising, or when very little sediment is being deposited, there will be blanks in our geological history. The crust of the earth is a vast museum; but the natural collections have been made only at intervals of time immensely remote."


It goes back to
>what I have been saying
>all along. You my friend
>have FAITH in the theory
>of evolution/man, I have FAITH
>in God.

Question for you: does believing in gravity require you to have faith in anything, or would you define it as an observable fact?
 
Yes and all your links are no more than subjective opinions from people like yourself.

You hang your hat on evolutionary archaeology but shun biblical archaeology. I understand the principle behind the theory of evolution but when you put the pieces of the puzzle together, my picture doesn't look like yours. There have been several books written showing how the bible and evolution can coexist and even support each others theories. Why don't you read some of those and maybe you would understand our point of view.
 
It all boils down to the fact that two schools of thought exist, one believes only what can be proven and seen with the eye and explained in understandable human terms; the other believes that there is a realm of the universe which exists which is unexplainable on human terms. Obviously neither group is going to sway the other so why bother anymore?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-12 AT 03:09PM (MST)[p]I don't often wander down here cause I ain't thick skinned enough for some of you gents, but here is my take on life.

Whether you believe in God or not matters very little, it may be true it may not only time will tell. What matters is finding fulfillment in life. Wherever and whatever that is gleaned from, usually depends on an individual.

It is impossible to argue the existence of certain things, such as humanity, and out of necessity derived from the reality of the first, sociality. the truth of a principle for all universally, is found in the idea of progression. If a practice or principle leads that person to progress in life and therebye find a measure of fullfilment then it is truth. (I submit this idea on the pretense that all find happiness in growth and progression).

Some individuals find growth and progression leading a life founded on a religious belief, others do not. The idea of something being 'true' or not is uneffected by such boundaries. The golden rule is just as true in christianity as it is in hinduism. It betters society effectively when practiced by atheists and muslims alike.

The principles that Christ taught are 'true' principles, they are for the benefit of all universally if you are living a good life then you are living principles that He taught. He did not invent them and it matters not whether he was right or wrong. Time has proven that the lessons he spoke are true.

Personally, i believe that far more important that purporting to have 'faith' in a higher power, is living true principles. Death will come to all and i'm sure that when it does and 440 unexpectedly grows a belief in something, the life he led will be far more important to the LOVING GIVING God that so many are claiming than an inability to believe. For those that live true principles, they will be able to say at the Judgement Day that they infact did live the way that they were supposed to, ignorance aside. It'll be awfully hard to not believe when your eyes close for the final time here and suddenly open again somewhere else.......then its just a matter of answering for your deeds cause belief will come quickly!

So feel free to crucify me (figuratively of course) for my ideas.

P.S. The idea of evolution is far to complex for me to believe in, take human eyesight for example it is magnificent to understand and evolution suggests that it developed by chance. It is a product of circumstance. For me that is impossible to fathom.

P.P.S. Those of you Christians who wish to debate the validity of the doctrine involved in the above statement feel free to P.M. me I'd be happy to elaborate on it.....
littlebeaver.jpg
 
Well said, Jesus like christian reasoning that's not much fun to argue with. if all christians had your attitude I think even though you're wrong it would be a positive influence to humanity as a whole. unfortunetly the fire and brimstone kill them before they kill you christian gets all the attention because they're in your face and in politics. your bible can motivate Fred Phelps and Mother Teresa with the same words, but in such a different direction. maybe it's the person not the book.

I'm pretty confident I'll never need a superstition in my life, my dad was as atheist as I am and died of a long fight with painful cancer. he had many well meaning people offer to come talk religion to him and refused them all. his last request was for me to sneak his revolver into the hospital, that is one time I'd have rather he asked for a preacher but he never did.

I see no reason I'd be any different. but I do want to give you a heartfelt thankyou for the words saying you hope I do rather than just reassure me I'm going to burn in hell for not. that's the difference between a Christ like christian and a christian.
 
barrysblaster- You should venture here more often we could always use your intelligence. Maybe that's not a good idea I've lost 20 IQ points on some of these debates.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-12 AT 08:21PM (MST)[p]Really! The christlike christians arethe ones who don't annoy 440. We should be as children, seen and not heard.

Please answer me one question 440, in your "fire and brimstone kill them before they kill you christian" statement when has any christian on this forum threatened anyone? I've stated many times I don't care what you believe in. You're obviously an educated individual and can make up your own mind, no one is forcing you. When I go to work, I kind of keep to myself, for I'm not one of those social butterfly types. I have few close friends. No one would know my views on christianity unless we got into a discussion about it, but daily I try to live life as I believe Christ would want me to. I don't always succeed but I at least try, because that is the barometer I've chosen to measure my life. I don't go around brow beating people like Manny. I've said alot here without being insulting so what I would like is a non insulting honest answer as to why you feel the need to be so damn hateful to christians. I believe in God, so what, why should you even care, given your beliefs. When people like you seem to go out of their way to discredit and ridicule christians, that just makes them more determined which ends up annoying you more. You want christians to leave you alone try APATHY!
 
It's not that you're a christian, it's because you're a christian dork. if you were a morman dork it wouldn't change anything.

You saw how I reacted to Berry, do you see the difference between your tactics and his?

Who says I hate christians? some of my best friends are christians, Berry is a christian and my guess is a good one. I never even said I didn't like you, you can be douchy but you're tolerable and entertaining. it's not a love and hate world, we coexist as long as our religions allow it.

Who said I want to be left alone? this is funny stuff . and as far as apathy and tolerance goes isn't that supposed to be a christian thing? maybe you should take Berry up on his offer to talk because I think he gets it. if you notice I didn't have any smart azz comebacks for him, it's hard to find any.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-12 AT 11:16PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-12 AT 10:50?PM (MST)

What tactics 440? I'm not trying to coerce you into doing anything. I respect your right to believe there is no God. It's your choice. No skin off my back.

Maybe it's not so much that I'm a christian, but the fact that I'm willing to argue with you over the whole evolution vs. creation thing. Is that what it is? Because we're too stubborn to see things your way. Sometime human logic doesn't explain everything. Just finished reading info on your boy Einstein. Seems, and this is verified through various sources, Einstein was not an atheist and didn't like being referred to as one. He did not believe in a personal God, but did believe in an impersonal God...i.e. A CREATOR. He even made statements to support the idea that there are some thing that are beyond human comprehension. He and other physicists have acknowledged that the universe is expanding, and as such must have had a beginning. Due to this fact many including Einstein have eluded to the possibility of a CREATOR. But you still post that funny little picture of Einstein and his alledged atheist cronies. It seems the logical statement " christians exist therefore 440 is annoyed" has some truth to it.

As far as berry's post, he said everything us other christians have said, he just sugar coated it so it wouldn't leave a bad taste in your mouth!

p.s just couldn't help yourself with the dork thing couldn't you, I guess that was too much to hope for.

p.p.s please define christian dork for us so we'll all be clear on this.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-12 AT 08:34AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-12 AT 08:31?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-12 AT 08:27?AM (MST)

Husked that's a terrible idea, i'd be just one more conservative faith wielding nut job.....

The concept of impressment is as fun a subject to learn about as any.....I'd wager to say the vast majority of wars, arguments, and any other historic moments that qualify as contentious were waged over some form of it or another

Any who most of us are guilty of trying to impress some personal view or opinion on others, anything will qualify really evolution, faith, sports team, the idea of I'm right and your wrong is flawed at it's very core. This is true simply because we don't know everything and until we do it's impossible to really know if in fact we are correct or not. Science is a perfect example of this. ideas that were deemed correct fifty years ago are now obsolete. what one generation saw as law was in reality just an incomplete idea..........

So trigger and 440 husked and beav (me) ;) please by all means continue to pimp your ideas but refrain from being audacious enough to presume you are correct it may embarrass you tomorrow!




littlebeaver.jpg
 
Not trying to impress anything on 440, its obvious he can't be impressed, just trying to stand my ground for what I believe just like 440 is doing for what he believes, instead of knuckling under to an internet atheist bully who has made an art of insulting people.

Yeah, you can take that as a complement 440!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-12 AT 09:16AM (MST)[p]Rather than argue about " faith " why not just prove it? this debate could be ended in 5 seconds with PROOF, over 2000 years later and faith is all you've got ? com'on lets get down to the facts and the facts are NO religion has one shred of proof of anything they claim.

If you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people. this is why this argument will go in circles forever.


http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001909833/412734942_faith_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg
 
have no physical proof in the realm of human understanding!

And the circle continues...
 
So an entity so powerful creating a universe isn't a problem can't do some trick to convince non christians he exists? I'm reasonable, part the water for me and I'd buy a case of bibles.


church-ad.jpg
 

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