Just wrote $2000+ checks to AZ
- Thread starter ktg
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DonMartin
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Quit whining! And when you draw, call me....
You and I both know AZ has some of the best public lands hunting in the West. That's why you and a lot of other NR will be applying this year.
Sure don't blame you.
Enjoy it while it lasts, as it will get more costlier in the next few years (though not as high as Nevada).
Just thank Georgie and his boys for all of this crap!
Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
You and I both know AZ has some of the best public lands hunting in the West. That's why you and a lot of other NR will be applying this year.
Sure don't blame you.
Enjoy it while it lasts, as it will get more costlier in the next few years (though not as high as Nevada).
Just thank Georgie and his boys for all of this crap!
Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
DonMartin
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Elkman:
I think that 1.2% is residents who will draw under the new plan, right?
I get the list every year of who draws tags, and despite what you're saying, non-residents have in the past drawn a lot of tags. I know, becuase I've hunted a good number of them on those "premium" hunts.
This was and is really all about a states rights to ensure resident hunting opportunity.
Despite what I've read and heard, non-residents DON'T pay for most of the wildlife management programs in Arizona, or other states.
Don't know what state you're from, but you should have the privilege of drawing the vast majority (90%) of the tags offered in your state.
I apply in a couple of other states and accept the fact that I'm facing a "loaded" draw designed to take care the the residents first, and non-residents second. That's just the way the game is played.
Anyway, just another view from the vast wasteland in the West known as Arizona!
Don
I think that 1.2% is residents who will draw under the new plan, right?
I get the list every year of who draws tags, and despite what you're saying, non-residents have in the past drawn a lot of tags. I know, becuase I've hunted a good number of them on those "premium" hunts.
This was and is really all about a states rights to ensure resident hunting opportunity.
Despite what I've read and heard, non-residents DON'T pay for most of the wildlife management programs in Arizona, or other states.
Don't know what state you're from, but you should have the privilege of drawing the vast majority (90%) of the tags offered in your state.
I apply in a couple of other states and accept the fact that I'm facing a "loaded" draw designed to take care the the residents first, and non-residents second. That's just the way the game is played.
Anyway, just another view from the vast wasteland in the West known as Arizona!
Don
T
tinaja
Guest
Wow, I should be crying a river of tears over the $4000 plus that I sent to Colorado. Of course I've always known I have the option to not play the game. Stop your whining.
S
saminwy
Guest
its crap, and arizona played right into taulmans hand with the changes. making a applying in arizona so expensive did nothing but improve the odds for those who are most likely to hire a guide.
saminwy,
Mistakes were made along the way. No mistaking that.
What would have you done?
Maybe we should have required all NR's to hunt with a Az outfitter/guide company? I have heard lots of criticism but I have not heard of a single solution that would fix the problem. Senator Reid's S339 bill seems to be the closest thing to a fix that I know of.
Personally, I'm extremely disappointed that the leadership in this state did not come up with a solution such as Reid's. When this happened last summer all of us Az boys were just looking for some leadership and a light. We wanted someone to stand up and represent us and nobody did. We wanted an Az answer and there was nothing. Nada. Our dept did nothing to support the AZ residents. Our clubs and in state hunting organizations were at meetings but they didn't have any answers. To this day I'm very disappointed with their leadership, or lack there of. We had nothing here and today we are stuck swallowing a pill we don't like. You want to talk about feeling raped? Ask an Az resident hunter how he feels right now. We read where all these NR's are lining up to come get it while the get'n is good too. We read and listen to all the whining from these people and just smile and bend over. I would never wish what we are experiencing on any other state.
Why do so many people want to play the game but they complain about the rules?
We (AZ residents hunters) would love to just kick the sh@% out Georgy boy and his boy toy griz and I'm sure they will get theirs someday. Until then, this is what we have come up with.
Their are no winners here, we all have suffered because of this little prick.
john
Mistakes were made along the way. No mistaking that.
What would have you done?
Maybe we should have required all NR's to hunt with a Az outfitter/guide company? I have heard lots of criticism but I have not heard of a single solution that would fix the problem. Senator Reid's S339 bill seems to be the closest thing to a fix that I know of.
Personally, I'm extremely disappointed that the leadership in this state did not come up with a solution such as Reid's. When this happened last summer all of us Az boys were just looking for some leadership and a light. We wanted someone to stand up and represent us and nobody did. We wanted an Az answer and there was nothing. Nada. Our dept did nothing to support the AZ residents. Our clubs and in state hunting organizations were at meetings but they didn't have any answers. To this day I'm very disappointed with their leadership, or lack there of. We had nothing here and today we are stuck swallowing a pill we don't like. You want to talk about feeling raped? Ask an Az resident hunter how he feels right now. We read where all these NR's are lining up to come get it while the get'n is good too. We read and listen to all the whining from these people and just smile and bend over. I would never wish what we are experiencing on any other state.
Why do so many people want to play the game but they complain about the rules?
We (AZ residents hunters) would love to just kick the sh@% out Georgy boy and his boy toy griz and I'm sure they will get theirs someday. Until then, this is what we have come up with.
Their are no winners here, we all have suffered because of this little prick.
john
Its funny that people are complaining. Prices haven't gone up to the caps every one is worried about. Its not any more than last year. And having to send the money up front is nothing different than a few years ago. I like it. Did you not apply a few years ago when you had to send in up front? Or did you just start applying when the online apps started? Try applying as a NR in other states for everything you applied for in AZ and see how much it costs.
S
Steelermadman2002
Guest
LAST EDITED ON May-03-05 AT 10:27PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-03-05 AT 10:26?PM (MST)
Have you checked out the prices for hunts in Montana, Washington, or any other state? Seems like you bashing one state and forgetting about many others.
Can you name a state that charges less for an Elk hunt than AZ?How about a western state for deer? I sure you can but I would like to know.
Also
Can anybody tell me when the on-line $5.00 apply fee started instead of the paying up front?
Wasn't only 3 years ago that you had to pay up front, wasn't like this always until the G&F allowed on-line applications?
Now it seems to be a big deal? If you can afford the hunt in July, you can afford the hunt in June (oh, I forgot the 0.31 cent in intrest would go for something nice).
Steelermadman2002
Have you checked out the prices for hunts in Montana, Washington, or any other state? Seems like you bashing one state and forgetting about many others.
Can you name a state that charges less for an Elk hunt than AZ?How about a western state for deer? I sure you can but I would like to know.
Also
Can anybody tell me when the on-line $5.00 apply fee started instead of the paying up front?
Wasn't only 3 years ago that you had to pay up front, wasn't like this always until the G&F allowed on-line applications?
Now it seems to be a big deal? If you can afford the hunt in July, you can afford the hunt in June (oh, I forgot the 0.31 cent in intrest would go for something nice).
Steelermadman2002
S
saminwy
Guest
i think its rediculous what other states charge for an out of state hunt. luckily, i dont have to pay out of state fees to hunt. strip deer tags are the only out of state hunt i've ever put in for. for people who hunt out of state every year, this is not a big change. i dont mind the price, hell, i'd gladly pay twice the new caps for a once in a lifetime hunt, but going off the people i know around my little neck of the woods-this is going to take a bunch a people out of the draw. thats all i said. if more than a dozen guys in one little town(thats just guys i know about) are no longer going to apply, i have to assume that its going to happen in other areas as well. one difference i see from other states is chance of return on investment when sending off those large sums every year. while its possible to apply for years and years for certain limited hunts or things like sheep moose and goats and not draw, strip tags are quite a bit different-good chance of sending them money for 20 years and never drawing a tag. i'm not complaining about that either, i think non residents should be tightly limited in a place like arizona where its so hard for residents to draw. didn't mean to piss anyone off, just pointing out that arizona's changes will tend to affect lower income hunters more than potential clients for USO, thus to at least some extent giving him a bigger peice of the pie when it comes to arizona.
DonMartin
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There is a lot of speculation as to how the "new" rules will affect the number of applicants this year.
Be interesting to see how it finally works out, but I really believe that those that have been in the system for for than five years will stay in.
The Internet application process was/is a joke. It let every person with a credit card and a $5 bill apply for premium big game tags, and while it makes a ton of money for the AZ G&F Dept., cuts down their paperwork, reduces manpower requirements for the draw, etc. it also created tremendously high odds on many hunts.
Besides, as has been brought out by several on this forum, it hasn't been too long ago that you had to apply by putting the money up front and sending in a paper application in Arizona.
The day that Nevada requires me to put up money up front, instead of the current Internet process where for $10 per species, I can apply for everything they offer, I'll have to re-evaluate what really are my priority species, and apply accordingly.
Anyway, good exchange of thoughts on all of this. Times are changing, but the good news is that the bulls and bucks are growing antlers like crazy here!
Those that draw tags this year in AZ will probably see some of the best antler growth in the last 10 years.
With archery elk tags having increased by over 1,400 this year, and deer tags increased in some areas (bad move I think, especially on the early hunt on the westside, Kaibab)and with the caps/quotas removed on everything but sheep, lots of non-residents going to get tags this year.
Good luck boys!
Don Martin
Be interesting to see how it finally works out, but I really believe that those that have been in the system for for than five years will stay in.
The Internet application process was/is a joke. It let every person with a credit card and a $5 bill apply for premium big game tags, and while it makes a ton of money for the AZ G&F Dept., cuts down their paperwork, reduces manpower requirements for the draw, etc. it also created tremendously high odds on many hunts.
Besides, as has been brought out by several on this forum, it hasn't been too long ago that you had to apply by putting the money up front and sending in a paper application in Arizona.
The day that Nevada requires me to put up money up front, instead of the current Internet process where for $10 per species, I can apply for everything they offer, I'll have to re-evaluate what really are my priority species, and apply accordingly.
Anyway, good exchange of thoughts on all of this. Times are changing, but the good news is that the bulls and bucks are growing antlers like crazy here!
Those that draw tags this year in AZ will probably see some of the best antler growth in the last 10 years.
With archery elk tags having increased by over 1,400 this year, and deer tags increased in some areas (bad move I think, especially on the early hunt on the westside, Kaibab)and with the caps/quotas removed on everything but sheep, lots of non-residents going to get tags this year.
Good luck boys!
Don Martin
DonMartin
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KTG:
Don't fret over the new fee cap (if it gets passed-still in the AZ legislature right now)
Be a long time before they hit the ceiling. AZ watches what our neighbors (Nevada, Utah & New Mexico) does with their big game prices. We're kinda reactive, they raise theirs, we raise ours...
Don
Don't fret over the new fee cap (if it gets passed-still in the AZ legislature right now)
Be a long time before they hit the ceiling. AZ watches what our neighbors (Nevada, Utah & New Mexico) does with their big game prices. We're kinda reactive, they raise theirs, we raise ours...
Don
TipMOver
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http://www.huntinfo.com/awo.htm
Hey Don,
We still on for next week on the Strip? I'll be leaving Friday afternoon. Let me know where you guys are camping.
Dave N.
Hey Don,
We still on for next week on the Strip? I'll be leaving Friday afternoon. Let me know where you guys are camping.
Dave N.
DonMartin
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Dave:
As far as I know, yes, we are going to meet at the BLM headquarters in St. George, UT at 6 a.m. Will caravan down from there. Bring stuff to spend the night in case we don;t have enough volunteers to finish the project on Saturday.
Thanks for putting out the webiste too, I've got to get it updated, including the photo if our 2004 Unit 10 archery elk results (1,000 inches of bone!)
How many are coming with you?
Don
As far as I know, yes, we are going to meet at the BLM headquarters in St. George, UT at 6 a.m. Will caravan down from there. Bring stuff to spend the night in case we don;t have enough volunteers to finish the project on Saturday.
Thanks for putting out the webiste too, I've got to get it updated, including the photo if our 2004 Unit 10 archery elk results (1,000 inches of bone!)
How many are coming with you?
Don
DonMartin
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Hey bubba:
What time you getting in?
I'm gonna be there from Wednesday on, so I'll have a room on Friday night.
Bring your sleeping bag and a ice chest and we'll camp out Saturday night and go look at critters on Sunday..
Forget the hat, I think my son took to Oklahoma!
Don
What time you getting in?
I'm gonna be there from Wednesday on, so I'll have a room on Friday night.
Bring your sleeping bag and a ice chest and we'll camp out Saturday night and go look at critters on Sunday..
Forget the hat, I think my son took to Oklahoma!
Don
DonMartin
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LAST EDITED ON May-05-05 AT 00:55AM (MST)[p]Dave:
Might have Mike Hulsey from Havasu meet you in Vegas and ride up with you if that's ok.
Also, I have my AZ hunt recommendations done, will send them to you tomorrow.
If any else out there wants my FREE (sorry Garth)hunt recommendations, send me a PM and I'll send them to you.
Don
Might have Mike Hulsey from Havasu meet you in Vegas and ride up with you if that's ok.
Also, I have my AZ hunt recommendations done, will send them to you tomorrow.
If any else out there wants my FREE (sorry Garth)hunt recommendations, send me a PM and I'll send them to you.
Don
