Justify This

Capitalism at its worst. We now have a plutocracy that is driven to amass more wealth and power while seeking to curtail wages and benefits for their workers. This trend can only lead to the impoverization of America with dangerous social implications.

Eldorado
 
Im not sure the workers really need government
assistance to stay alive, they just need to live more modestly.
No cell phones, we used to live without them, I hear many a rightwinger complain about the poor having cell phones, no personal automobiles, there is public transportation available in most cities, plus people need to walk more, many poor people are over weight therefore they should eat far less.
and poor people need to get rid of their pets, I have 3 dogs and let me tell you dog food isn't cheap anymore, my old dog has a skin problem and his food is 45 bucks a bag!

Remember this is America,its the new world, richest country on earth.
 
$9200 an hour, I could get used to that. I would honestly like to know if a CEO making $920 an hour wouldn't sell just as many crappy burgers.

The ironic part is the hamburglar will spend millions to lobby against the minimum wage from increasing but nobody will question the CEO getting this kind of money. it shows what our society has come to accept and therefore condone.













Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-13 AT 04:44PM (MST)[p]So are you arguing there should be a maximum wage as well as a minimum wage? Don't all the CEO's have shareholders and boards?

What you are talking about with these isn't capitalism at, it is corporatism. How many of those people would be willing to keep on making low wages if there was not a safety net? Would the workers unite and demand a higher wages to take care of their families? Would they organize into unions and increase their power? Why do you think union membership has declined so dramatically and they can't get Walmart Workers and McDonalds workers to organize? You don't think there is a correlation with the rise of the welfare state and the decline in union membership? The government is doing a lot of what the unions used to do.

I am not defending anyone making $9,200 an hour, just curious why you three think you should get to decide how much somebody gets to make, unless you are saying there should be a maximum wage also.

Our society is rotting just as much from the welfare mentality as it is from $9,200 CEO salaries. You your self has said you can't get people at more than minimum wage, why can McDonalds or others?

Nemont
 
LMMFAO! The beauty of this country is that any one of those minimum wage workers has the freedom to open up a hamburger joint and be the CEO of his or her little company. Sell good hamburgers at a cheap price and they might even branch out into franchises and make the big bucks.

What's funny is if even one of them were to do this, I would bet the farm that they would hire minimum wage workers too. It's too bad that there's too many dumb people out there not willing to sacrifice and take a risk to be one of those highly paid CEOs. I'm certain that the government safety nets have something to do with that, I mean why risk anything when you're already taken care of?

Check into the history of the origins of any fast food chain and you'll find that they were all small one location joints that have grown and grown over time into what they are now.

Also, if people are so concerned with a CEO making that much money while only paying the workers minimum wage, why aren't those people boycotting the fast food joints? BECAUSE THEY WANT CHEAP FU**ING FOOD! Why don't you libtards start a movement to boycott fast food chains until the workers are paid more? Let me guess you like cheap fries too?
 
I don't remember anyone saying there should be a maximum wage? Its just a noteworthy insight into American culture, while many on the right blame the "welfare moms" and lazy poor people' many on the left blame corporate greed.

I think McDonalds can get minimum wage help because the work is usually in urban areas and there are lots of young available workers willing to get trained.
I remember 5 or 6 years ago when things were booming some McDonalds were offering 10 dollars an hour and had big help wanted signs out front.

I think the swing of the pendulum is mostly why unions have declined so much, its been over 80 years since the roaring twenties and great depression, its been around 70 years since WW2, I think you would find a different attitude about corporations and government among the greatest generation, but its a different breed hat hold the power now.
Its a holdover from the past but I believe the thinking behind the minimum wage is because many people in charge will do what they have done all throughout history and oppress workers in order to become more wealthy.

With technology taking away so many jobs and the fact that an aged society has declining freedoms and opportunities, we could make half of society virtual slaves if there were no government to stand up against that kind of oppression, you want a job? want to feed your family? you better get busy, boy.
 
You reap what you sew! If you aspire to become the french fry manager then you will be rewarded with chump change on your paycheck. Why is this so hard to figure out? These jobs were never meant to raise a family on. It just so happens that the government makes it easy for young stupid people to start families when they have no business even raising themselves. Then they give up all aspirations to become something more and the government enabled them.

Piper speaks of the Depression and WWII and what was the biggest difference between then and now as it relates to entitlement programs?
 
Who ever said French fry managers were jobs to raise a family on? Young stupid people have families because they are horny, the government doesn't cause that, its human instinct, where do you come up with this stuff?

Businesses whine like scaled pigs if the government were to start big civil work projects, lobbyists would swarm congress if that were even mentioned. The honor camps have a bad enough time as it is, besides it wouldn't be worth the time to get todays computer button pushers in shape for real work, we are a different society than we were 75 years ago.

Start a fast food joint? better have a couple hundred grand sitting around, and for every Wendys there are ten thousand mom and pop joints that go broke.
 
Nemont I didn't say a CEO couldn't earn whatever idiots are willing to pay. what I'm saying is why do people accept that $15 an hour for burger flippers is out of the question but $9200 and hour for the boss is high, but reasonable.

The only way to change this would be to boycott the hamburglar like people would if the CEO said something about blacks. but nobody will, we accept this as the american way as insane as it is. we'd rather provide prorams to make up the difference between what a burger flipper makes and what it takes to stay alive then blame the democrats for it.


Californian, what do you figure the odds are of a burger flipper making $7 an hour are of getting a loan to build a joint across the street fron the hamburglar? about as good as one of my pipe changers getting a loan to buy me out. get real.

If you think the middle class is in trouble you ain't seen nothing yet. unless you have more in common with the CEO than the losers flipping burgers you might want to give a crap. you might join them sooner than you think.



Stay thirsty my friends
 
It baffles me to no end why people patronize these places. I haven't had a fast food burger in over 10 years. I don't understand the allure.
Plus, I'll be dead and in the ground before I pay $3.50 for a cup of coffee at Starbucks. WTF is wrong with people? I have a Mr. Coffee and I can make coffee for pennies.

Having said all that, I don't know what a CEO does, but he must be worth it to whoever hired them. If he can get people to eat that rot gut food he must be worth $9200/hr.
 
The CEOs are worth it because they may outsource to China and maybe they have effective lobbyists to stop minimum wage increases and they do whatever it takes to increase the bottom line.

These are the same people that would turn us all into slaves if they could, they have always been that way and always will be.
 
Nobody serving a Meal that tastes that bad should make that kinda money!

I just threw up,a lot,in my mouth!













I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
I don't eat there much either Eel, but you are really old fashioned and a tightwad.

Actually most of the fast food places are competitive and they are trying to sell some healthy food, things are evolving in a good way.
I imagine the CEOs have a lot to do with responding to the customers changing desires, and thankfully things are looking a little more healthy on that front.
 
piper, I am a tightwad. The most I ever made was $21/hr. and my wife has never worked. It was a long hard road but we're good now.

I can't even comprehend the whole CEO thing, but it seems they are over paid for sure, but I must be wrong as there are a lot of them. Same as professional athletes.

What cured me of fast food was spending lots of vacation time back packing in the wilderness. After spending two weeks eating lots of rice and fish and dehydrated potatoes, etc. my body got weaned off of junk food. I felt a lot better so I never went back. My wife feels the same way or it never would have worked.
 
Piper always the blame game. Nobody can turn you into a slave but yourself in our current society.
Why do liberals always need to play victim.

Any $10 an hour worker can change his life for themselves or their family in less than a generation.

Why do Indians and Chinese come over here and within 20 years they have kids in college, own property and are successful.

Quit pretending lazy is someone elses fault.

Communism does not work. You would be the first in line for your card, there is no doubt about that.
But, communism takes away any incentive and the country implodes.

Even Cuba is finally allowing capitalism into their system.

I have seen all my life, every loser I have known has an excuse and at least a few different people they blame.
The mantra for liberals.
 
Making a cup of coffee should be a career?

Move to Detroit and see how it works for ya....Move to Chicago and see how it works for ya....

OR....move to Utah where we are the most red state in the union....we are in the middle of the desert....with the best economy in the United States.



"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
Aspen, I was born in SLC, and I have lived in Utah at different times, love the mountains and deserts, climbed the highest peaks, hunted the big bulls and deer and antelope.

And I like the people, but I would probably never live there again, its crowded and the economy isn't really that good for blue collar workers, taxes are high and freedoms aren't really that abundant, and many people have value systems I'm not so fond of, kind of like yours.
There are a lot of people living there that barely make ends meet, and they are usually the ones that do most of the work, the west side of the city is full of them, that's not uncommon in large urban areas though.

Actually Nevada is more in the middle of the desert, they have no state income tax and the economy in Elko county trumps that of anywhere in Utah.
I like it here in Wyoming though, no state income tax, a 4% sales tax, millions of acres of wilderness, lots of water and a great school system where teachers are well paid.
Where you want to live depends on your value system, to each his own.
 
>The new American dream is having
>3 jobs, no benefits and
>called a leech.
>
>Eldorado

Eldorado, explain why Indian, Chinese, and many other immigrants can come over here and turn your theory on its ear??

What advantages do they have on us that they can do it and people like Piper cant? What excuse do we have?

Give some people an excuse or make them a victim and they make a career of it. That is the liberal American dream.
***********************************

Margaret Thatcher: "The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money."


"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - Unknown
 
one track mind, your an interesting dude NMpaul (sarcasm)

The fabled immigrants you speak of are usually obsessed with making money and have financial backing from back home, in fact that is how they get passage way to this country.
I think if you knew anything about immigration policy in the US you would understand that.

Don't let facts get in the way of your Ronald Reagan style rhetoric, remember every one is a failure but the rich, 60% of Americans are discusting lazy sloths, and everyone who isn't well off blames everyone else for their failure, that is the liberal American dream.
They blame everyone but themselves, they are victims of themselves, socialism never works, communism is destined to fail, and everyone who isn't rich has an excuse and blames everyone else, especially piper because he wants everyone else to make up for his failures.

lets see is there anything else I didn't cover?
 
>The new American dream is having
>3 jobs, no benefits and
>called a leech.
>
>Eldorado


Funny thing right there. My oldest daughter will start where it took me many years to get to, my younger daughter will graduate with a degree that will let her go anywhere in the U.S. and make an above average income. My one that is a junior in high school is being courted already by schools that frighten me with what they cost based on his math and science scores, he is going to be just fine as well.

The American dream is alive is one is willing to apply themselves to career paths that don't lead to a dead end. It isn't rocket surgery but when 25% of American kids quit high school and most of those don't have the skills to compete in our economy. Is that society faults or Republican's fault?

Those is a college degree have an unemployment rate of 3.4%, With a high school diploma 7.3%, without a High school diploma 10.8%. Again it ain't rocket surgery. Get educated or learn a trad and you can achieve, drop and, in most cases, you sentence yourself to flipping burgers at minimum wage or no job.

Nemont
 
Piper, it starts with a defeatist attitude. You got one.

Really, most immigrants come over here with financial backing. LMAO!!

What planet did you come from?

Immigrants have been coming to this country for 200 years and setting the world on fire with nothing in their pocket.

Of course we have made it tougher to be successful in some ways, but, in others it is easier.

Just because you want the producers that you hate so much to give more towards wealth distribution does not mean that any individual with a decent work ethic, some discipline and a decent attitude can have success.

Instead, the liberals have trying to keep the poor down so they have a pool of voters.


***********************************

Margaret Thatcher: "The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money."


"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - Unknown
 
That's true Nemont, but its also true that those working at low wage jobs are more educated that ever before, its also true that everyone can't work in these highly paid fields of work.

Our society still needs tangible goods and services, lots of them, from automobles and heavy equipment to housing and roads, from the food you eat to the car you drive to the building you sit in and everything you use in between.

Discounting huge parts of our economy and discounting all those losers doing underpaid jobs isn't part of the Austrian economic principle is it?

Your kids are lucky to have a successful father that can afford to send them to a school with frighteningly high tuition costs, not everyone has that as an option.
 
Nmpaul, people from other countries don't just legally come to America and start a business without money and resources, and if they come and get a high paying job its because they are already highly skilled and educated, its not 1880 anymore.

Good try but your BS won't work here, you obviously don't know anything about US immigration policy.
 
Well said as usual Nemont.
Piper and Eldorado are so damned negative, why they find a way to wake up every morning blows my mind. Both of them and 440 for that matter seem like they are all just one click away from planting a .45 cal in the top of their mouths. Guys remember this is still the best place to live, if you don't think so then move the hell out.







"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
>Nmpaul, people from other countries
>don't just legally come to
>America and start a business
> without money and resources,
>and if they come and
>get a high paying job
>its because they are already
>highly skilled and educated, its
>not 1880 anymore.
>
>Good try but your BS won't
>work here, you obviously don't
>know anything about US immigration
>policy.

Almost to stupid to reply to.

You are saying that these immigrants have advantages our deadbeats do not.
Dream on. I bet you got excuses for everything that ever went wrong in your life.

If you want to get people off of welfare, you need to make them work for their money (providing they're not disabled). Throwing them a fish rather than teaching them to fish is a sneaky trick the democrats designed to keep people dependant on the govt - and guarantee a vote for the candidate who promises to give the most away.

These poor people need to learn a trade. There are plenty of jobs that the illegals have stolen from American workers and here's how we get them back; If you want welfare, you will be forced to work and learn a trade, otherwise charities will have to look after you.
 
I see, so there is no excuse for anyone to work at McDonalds. just deadbeat losers and bums do that stuff, pizz on those losers.

So in a perfect conservative world everyone has a masters and we're all CEO's. sounds good, so then how many mexicans will you bring in to harvest your food and cook it for you? we'll have 300 million chiefs and no indians, sounds like a great plan.

Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer, so why can't we pay them enough to eat and put a roof over their head? if this is too hard to comprehend you might be Mcdonald's employee material.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
That's exactly what I'm saying, most all legal immigrants that come to this country have advantages. A doctor from India can come here relatively easy and make a buttload of money, but a regular unskilled worker cannot, even if they could afford the plane ticket, they could never get a visa. Everyone loves a good motivational story, but lets keep it real.

Learning a trade is a good thing, but people also need an incentive to keep going, and watching real wages decline for hard working people because of illegal workers doesn't help.

I know that rightwingers think wages don't matter and if people get hungry enough they will work just to eat, but its not that simple, and that type of situation always ends up bad.
over the long term people need some reward for their efforts, not just survival.
 
440 you are on a roll today.

I hope you are not inferring that I stated any of what you just posted.

I worked in a restaurant for 5 years. I started on the lowest rung of a company and busted my hump for 17 years to get into upper management. I had saved my money and bought a franchise.
I had lots of speed bumps in my life, but, now I work out of my house 80% of the time (that is why I waste my time on here) and pretty much have the $ to get to do what I want. Luckily I do not have expensive tastes. I have never bought a new car. I see lots of people with all kinds of financial problems that buy new cars every 4-5 years.
I am not particularly smart. I know lots and lots of people way smarter than I am. Some are more successful, but, many are less successful.
I constantly grind my kids about not doing it the hard way like I did. I hope they listen. It is not easy, but, it is very very achievable for anyone willing to work.

I started with nothing. I do not have a college degree, though I tried for years to earn one while I worked. It did not work out, and finally when I was 30 I quit beating myself up about it.
 
Piper, you have the attitude of failure. I have seen it all my life.
Just trying to help you out.





***********************************

Margaret Thatcher: "The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money."


"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - Unknown
 
I failed to get out earlier, so Im going to go skiing in a few minutes, its sunny and a lot warmer. That might help me get over the fact that Im such a failure.
 
Piper, I dont know what you are, but, I do know you have the attitude and outlook that aligns itself with failure.
Break a leg. :)
 
PIPEDOWN,

MY POINT IS THAT FLIPPING BUGGAS AND POURING COFFEE IS NOT A CAREER!!!!!!!!!!

CAN YOU IMAGINE!?!

IT IS AN ENTRY LEVEL....ENTRY LEVEL....E-N-T-R-Y L-E-V-E-L JOB!

IDIOTS!

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
Paul,

The point I'm trying to make, and in a lifetime of dealing with ranch workers I know I'm right, is not all people are created equal. I don't care what the PC police say.

Come meet some ag sector workers, even white ones, they're dumber than a sack of hammers. I'm not sure they could run a fry cooker so I doubt McDonalds is even an option. BUT, they do work and they do jobs most are too good for. so if they're working for $10 an hour they've peaked, there's noplace to go but down when they get too old to do it anymore.

Are you going to argue that these people are at fault for not pulling down a 100k a year job? I would hope not. so if we agree they've found their sweet spot how do we keep them alive without government programs, like obamacare? and if you don't have an answer how can you oppose obamacare?

I also have no higher education, I'm not to proud to say if I lost everything today it would be tough for me to start over. in todays world it takes money to make money, you go big or you go home . who's going to loan a 50 year old rancher a few million to try it again? and what else do I know? maybe I'd be at mcdonalds myself. I've worked damn hard and I must have worked smart because I'm worth more every year, but far be it from me to have aspen's "better than you" attitude because I know some of it was luck.


We can talk all day about how things should be but at the end of the day we have to face reality. the reality there are many reasons we're not all Bill Gates.


Stay thirsty my friends
 
440,

There is not a person on this planet I consider myself "better" than.

We each come from unique circumstances and I am blessed to have been born in the place, time, and with the parents I have.

However, I see people choosing their fates every day and I refuse to help them fail. I hire about 100 seasonals every year. I have taught about 20 of them some principles to make them millionaires in about 12 years. It is something I have written a book about and it is a guaranteed plan if you and your spouse have a $15 per hour job.

Out of 20 guys only 2 of them have followed the plan. Both of them now worth over $1,000,000. Can you imagine!!!??? One of them is 31 years old. He was my assistant and watched and listened to what I told him. The rest of them go like this:

1. Dead - drug induced suicide
2. In Jail - robbery
3. On disability - accident driving while drunk
4. Homeless - refused to work in cold temps
5. Walmart - was texting a woman on my job...cheating on his wife.
6. In jail - Drugs
7. Fired - Having sex with a female coworker.
8......
9......etc

Do you get the point!?

These people were given a golden goose....a chance to win a permanent job with my company. A plan to become a millionaire in 12 years....BUT THEY DIDNT WANT IT!

Mostly people don't believe it can be done. Ususally it is their parents fault. Many of the men mentioned above came from abusive homes or parents who didn't care or know any better..

BUT! These men and their parents know right from wrong and they could have taken a stand and bettered their lives. Everyone can be successful. The only thing that should limit us is our age....with more experience and time we should earn more. My father and I run our company debt free. No matter what happens to the economy we will be fine. If we would run our country that way and our homes that way we would all be in such a position to never need to worry about a roof over our head.

If I can do it anyone can. I was married at 17 with a kid...wife didn't work....held down 3 jobs for the first year....raised my son....went to college without dads help.....

If OBAMA can do it anyone can....that is one thing we should learn from this president. Black men can get into college so easily....I worked for a major credit card company that would pay you to go to college...anyone....especially blacks were hired there. They were begging for minorities....what these guys need is to stop blaming others and take a STAND! They know the difference between right and wrong....CHOOSE TO BE GOOD PEOPLE. Every day wake up and try as hard as you can. And YES...everyone can improve financially every single day!

Even the guys stuck at $10 per hour....they can make their lives better.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
440 and Aspen, you guys are both right.

Only thing I would add is that not everyone has to have a new car every 5 years, a $100 monthly bill for a smart phone, 10K worth of tatoos, eat fast food every night.
Somehow our definition of poverty has gotten stupid.
The person I described above is now your average poverty level person. Let me add that they may weigh 300 lbs.

Are they stupid? Drug addict? Lazy? A combination of those things?

If they are worth $10 an hour, why pay them more. FYI, in SE NM and W Texas, they cant find people. The oil boom has sucked up everyone with a double digit IQ, drivers license, and they are making bank.
 
Sure there is a good part of society that would better be used for hog feed. but I'm talking about those who go out and do their best, it's just not good enough.

If you have the will to get out of bed and go to work flipping burgers you deserve to have the basics in life, food , shelter and healthcare. beyond that it's tough luck charlie.

As it is today there is no insentive to work over unemployment or welfare. and look at the attitude directed at those low level workers, they should be rewarded not belittled.

Now Aspen is making sense, he's pitching his Ronco how to get rich in 6 easy steps book. RELH you better buy one, god knows you're not going to figure it out on your own.






Stay thirsty my friends
 

Similar threads

Birchcreekguide
Oregon Rifle and Archery guided elk hunts w/ Outfitter Tags Available
Replies
6
Views
871
Birchcreekguide
Birchcreekguide
gr8fuldoug
For Sale This Week at Camera Land
Replies
0
Views
259
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
For Sale GPO Optics Sale
Replies
0
Views
112
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

1704764860492.jpeg
7470704F-29E6-4353-8097-D2C392BA3800.jpeg
Screenshot_20220222-101151.png
806AA2ED-B398-470F-AC84-75103819FF75.png
091F2B3D-B03B-4742-826B-A904C9FE214B.jpeg
IMG_20221229_101538577_HDR.jpg
20200610_064517.jpg
How big is this bull?
IMG_3815.PNG
bens buck 2.JPG
Screenshot_20230912_192309_Chrome.jpg
bull2.jpg
Back
Top Bottom