Kingman hunters ed class

[Elkcrzy1]

Just wanted to say thanks to Don, Jerry and the rest of the crew who put on the hunters ed class this weekend. You guys kept it entertaining and interesting with good info.
Still kind of depressed about the draw odds part though !!! Gary

 

[Drnaln]

I agree!Never wanted to take the time to do the class but Don & the crew made it fun!Now all I need is 13B archery!
David

 

[AZBuckSnort]

All of you who attended the class were a first-rate group of folks. We had a good time sharing our NR Supplemental Hunter Ed Class with you all. Good luck in the drawings. We predict a couple of you are going to score the tag of your dreams this summer. Make sure you email us to crow about your success!

Jim Rich

 

[DonMartin]

To the new 26 Hunter Ed graduates..

As promised, I dropped off all of the information on your successful completion of the class to the Region III office today

I was assured it will be taken to Phoenix post haste and that you will see that extra point-- and for a number of you-- a trip to the max bonus point pool for deer this year.

It was a great class, too bad I missed so much by attending the teleconference of the Game & Fish Commission meeting.

As Mr. Rich stated, we fully expect to see some of you folks in the field in the not to distance future.

Our next supplemental class will be on January 9, 2010 so those that couldn't make it this time have lots of time to prepare.

For those who want to take the two weekend (35 hour) version, our next class will start on July 31..

Don Martin
Chief Instructor
AZ Hunter Education
Kingman

 

[Elkcrzy1]

I was wondering how you were going to keep Summers D. Summers awake and you guys pulled it off !!!

 

[bubbas]

Don,
I have been referring numerous relatives of mine to take your class but have been unsuccessful in getting them there. Hopefully, for their sakes they will come see you some day. Thanks for diligently facilitating this course!

 

[Christian]

Thanks Don, Jim, Paige, and everyone
Robby Denning

The Christian

 

[bighorn191]

All you guys did a fine job of sharing a lot of information in one day. The draw information was very interesting and, as always, it was fun to meet other hunting maniacs. Thanks Don and Paige for the great hospitality at your home. Jim, you do a dynamite job of clearly communicating pertinent information. Thanks to all of you who volunteer to help make the woods a safer place for all hunters. You guys are the salt of the earth!

Tim

 

[DonMartin]

Tim:

Did your dad get the range day deal OK?

Don

 

[bighorn191]

Yep, we got to Mesa about 10 pm and he had his field day the next day and we were headed home at 12:30...I got to spend the morning at the Glendale Cabela's...what an awesome store! Some of the biggest antelope and deer mounts ever assembled. It was a good weekend for us.

 

[AZBuckSnort]

AHHH, the Cabela's store....

 

[DonMartin]

Jimbo:

Think TURKEYS!!!!

We're going after turkeys, right???

We have to break your jinx on this birds...

Forget deer, elk sheep, just think, gobble-gobble!

Don

 

[coltwayne]

Ya thanks to everybody that was a really good group of people. You guys really did make it a fun class. Good luck to every body in the draw, next time I go back to AZ. I hope Im hunting.

Colt

 

[mickeyelk]

Don! If I take your class again can I get another point? Just kidding.

 

[stealth_archer]

Quick question on age limits. I call the G&F today and they said that a child that is 8 years old is allowed to take the Hunters saftey class (my son will turn 9 in August). I have also heard rumors that you do not allow kids under 10 to take the class. Some insight would be appriciated.

 

[bighorn191]

Don,
PM sent a week ago or so...

Tim

 

[elkchaserreturns]

Hello stealth_archer,
The one fact that the G&F doesn't tell the public is that, even though an eight year old child has successfully passed the course, they cannot be certified until they are 10. They must be 10 years of age at time of graduation.

Maybe it's a small thing, but it was very "awkward" when they had the little ceremony, and were passing out the diplomas and my son (who was eight at the time, and successfully passed the course) recieved only a "cerificate of completion". That was eighteen years ago and it still pisses me off when I remember that event. It sure would have been easier for all concerned if we had known that before the ceremony.

I later became a certified instructor of this course and I taught for several years. I always made sure all the students, and their parents, were aware of the age stipulation before they signed up.

This course used to be one of the highest rated in the country and it is full of good information for everyone, young and old, and I encourage everyone to take it but, , , , take it for the information it provides, not so you can recieve a BONUS POINT.

One final bit of information that the G&F doesn't say much about.

The course, and all the materials that come with it, are fully funded by the Heritage Fund. This comes from proceeds from the state lottery.

The full amount of your registration fee goes to the instructor(s). I don't know what the going rate is these days but your "volunteer instructor" is being well compensated.

Just an FYI.

ElkChaser

 

[AZBuckSnort]

"One final bit of information that the G&F doesn't say much about.

The course, and all the materials that come with it, are fully funded by the Heritage Fund. This comes from proceeds from the state lottery.

The full amount of your registration fee goes to the instructor(s). I don't know what the going rate is these days but your "volunteer instructor" is being well compensated.

Just an FYI.

ElkChaser"


It is my understanding that the Pittman-Robertson Act provides for the lion's share of the funding that enables us to offer hunter education in AZ and throughout the USA.

It is an absolute misrepresentation to say that any "volunteer instructor" is being well compensated." The nominal fee paid, I believe our last class was $5.00 per person, with a discount for family groups, is deposited into an account within our local sportsman's club and used to pay for the targets, ammunition, demonstrations, teaching materials, etc. that are provided for the students' education. Not a thin dime is paid to any instructor.

In fact, at gas prices between $2.00-4.00 a gallon, my out-of-pocket expense to teach hunter education to residents and nonresidents alike is substantial when you consider I drive 160+ miles round trip to class in a pickup that get 12 MPG on a great day. That doesn't include wear and tear on my vehicle nor the occasional flat tire I suffer through from traveling the blistering 140+ degree asphalt on I-40 in July & August to teach class. I've bunked on the couch at Don Martin's home to save travel expense and time in efforts to minimize costs. We have instructors donating ammo & targets, making their own visual props on their own time and expense from their own materials.

I'd sure like to see some proof that individual volunteer instructors, like me, are paid or personally compensated for our volunteer teaching of hunter education. Perhaps you could contact David Williams, AZ Hunter Education co-ordinator and ask him to send you "proof" or verification that his volunteer instructors are "paid" for their services? I can pledge this, I've never seen or received a dime. Period.

Now, the fact is, our AZGFD is reimbursed through the P-R Act for time served by its instructor teams throughout the state at a nominal hourly rate. These funds go to the state and not to the individual instructors.

If you were paid for being an instructor it would be interseting to know by whom, when and how much. Mr. Williams would probably like to know much more so that I would.

The incident with your child is unfortunate; however, I personally have watched and listened through the part of our opening session speech about class paperwork matters and the age requirement to receive a certification is an issue addressed each and every time, it is also plainly spelled out in the regulations. We had a youngster who was too young to receive a certification in our last class. That being said, he was mighty proud to walk up and receive his certificate of recognition for attending the course. He'll happily be back when he is of age to obtain his official certification and I will be glad to hand him his patch and blue card when he completes the class and add him to the growing number of Arizona Hunter Ed Graduates.

Jim Rich

 

[elkchaserreturns]

Hello AZbucksnort,
I stand corrected! It IS the Pittman-Robertson Act that provides the bulk of the funding for this program. I am not sure about the Heritage fund and I should have double checked my facts before making that statement.

However, as to the rest of my post, I will stand by it.

I am glad to hear that you folks up in Kingman deposit the registration fees into the account of a local Sportsmans Club and that you present all the information at the very beginning. None of the groups I taught with were doing that back in 1991, , , at least to my knowledge.

When I started teaching Hunter Ed, the Department had just introduced the BP system. The first couple of classes I taught were with a group of five other instructors with a Chief Instructor in charge. They would place an ad in the AZ Republic and we would have over TWO HUNDRED STUDENTS show up. We would then divide this large group by age etc. and present the class.

Later, when I taught a couple of classes on my own to some smaller groups, I asked the G&F Hunter Ed Coordinator where I was supposed to turn in the fees I had collected. I was told that was for me to keep "to help cover my personal expenses".
I returned the fees to the students.

That was one of the reasons I quit doing it.

Like you, I never recieved a dime for my efforts, , , nor did I want one. I felt proud to be doing something for the community on a subject I am totally committed to. It never bothered me to spend a few bucks for targets, .22 shells, gas, demonstration materials, etc.

It was not my intention to offend you and I probably could have explained my statements better on my original post. I still believe that the work you, and most of the other instructors teaching this class, are performing is extremely important and we will never know how many lives may have been saved with the that service.

If I implied otherwise, I apologize.

I also feel that it is misleading to the public to suggest that, by taking the AZ Hunter Ed class, anyone is really improving their chances of being drawn and, as far as I know, most groups don't "donate the fees to a local Sportsman Club".

Elkchaser

 

[Drnaln]

I just took the NR class & I think the fee was $5.00.An optional lunch donation was another $5.00 & you got more then your moneys worth with the $10 bucks!!!!!
David

 

[AZBuckSnort]

Doug,

Thanks for your reply. I am mystified that any instructor could take funds for teaching the class. The concept of making a profit off the class is not something the program was designed for and I'd bet the situation you described was unique.

As I said earlier, no one from the Kingman team is profiting from the class other than the warm fuzzies one gets watching a youngster pass the class after learning the basics of hunter safety and wildlife management. The beaming smiles as the kids raise their patches for a grip-n-grin photo is compensation enough for all of us.

AZ needs every qualified instructor it can get; you ought to give teaching the class another chance.

Jim

 

[Elkcrzy1]

elkchaser I just took the class and enjoyed it very much and also wanted to say I dont think I wasted my time by getting an extra bonus point as a non resident. Im not sure what your point is here ? You stand corrected already and probably owe more of an apology than being corrected to a bunch of guys who did a great job and got paid little.

 

[DonMartin]

Well I just got back from a little trip and boy, was I surprised to read all of this.

As a Chief Instructor for Hunter Ed here in Kingman, I'd like to set the record straight.

If one takes the time to review the published rules about the Bonus Point system and who is eligible to take the class, it plainly states that you have to be 10-years old at graduation in order to earn the permanent bonus point.

As Mr. Rich has pointed out, we have had a few under 10-years old take the class, and their parents knew up front they would get a certificate of completion for the class, and could not graduate. They all know that their kids will have to re-take the class when they turn 10.

As to fees. The fees collected for our classes are $5 per person or $7.50 per family. Out of those fees we pay for ammo, class training materials, and other class related expenses (3-D targets for demos), but under no circumstances am I or the instructors paid for their time, reimbursed for expenses to get to or from class, no matter how far they travel and as in Jim's case, his trips do entail traveling over 100 miles! They do not receive any kind of monetary stipend!

Any finds not directly expended are given to the Mohave Sportsman Club as payment for use of the their building and facilities.

However the MSC board has kept those funds in a separate account and does allow us to direct the use those funds for other things that we vote to support such as a donation to the MSC's newly formed archery program,or as is going to happen in the most recent class, the extra funds collected will go as a donation to the Mohave Top Guns, the Scholastic Clay Target Program winners who are going to the SCTP Nationals in Illinois this summer.

A number of years ago, when the Chandler Rod & Gun Club's Hunter Ed trailer was stolen and everything taken from it, we voted to send them $100 to help rebuild their program.

Bottom line is this team of instructors donate a heck of a lot of time and effort-- and spend their own private funds to provide what we all all sincerely believe in, that is teaching individuals young and old, about safe gun and bow handling, plus being an honest, ethical sportsman.

That is what drives us, that is why we do it, and have been doing it for many years. We don't have agendas; call it a way that we are trying to give back to our community something we feel is important and needed.

Don Martin
Chief Instructor
AZ Hunter Education
Kingman, AZ

 

[bighorn191]

Maybe you guys can take all the dough you're making on the classes and buy a pack of those #2 pencils you've always wanted...or that coffee at Starbucks you been eyeing...or even a nice gallon of premium gas for your mower. I guarantee, ain't no money being made on the Kingman classes.

I am a volunteer in a sheep conservation group in Colorado and have been for many years...I too want to give back to a group that I believe in and has so many good people involved...

My hat's off to any people who help people young and old become safer and better educated about hunting...my personal opinion, but, I think they ought to be paid!

 

[spcheuvront]

Don Martin;
You are like alot of the old school sportsman who
help all you can where ever you can. Without fame or glory because it is the right thing to do. In the " ME " generation
it seems that kind of thinking is thought of as stupid. If you don't get anything for it, then why bother? Well they don't know what it is to see a young man or woman catch their first fish, or harvest their first squirel. Watch some youngster finally understand " sight picture " when the target is marked as a bullseye. Those and a thousand other examples are why " WE " get more out of it than the kids do.
Don and all the other instructors who give so much of themselves
to help, I salute you all.
Steve Cheuvront

 

[Drnaln]

Woke up this AM with a bad feeling about my Arizona applications.I went to Kingman in April to get the last point I needed for max in the deer draw & couldn't get the tag I applyed for without that point.After 2 hours on the phone between being on hold & being transferred I finally got a lady named Diane that would listen.She told me Lori was the person I needed to speak with & would have her call me back.When Lori called,2 hours later,she had NO record of me taking the class or any of the other 25 classmates.I faxed her ALL my info & remembered Don Martin saying he dropped the class info off at the Region III office on April 20th.She just called again & the list was found on the Fish & Game desk and was faxed to her.She was in the process of entering the bonus points for all 26 people that attended the class!In NO way was it Don's fault but the paper-work he submitted just got mis-placed!It was really great to find lady's as helpful as Diane & Lori that were willing to listen & help!
David

 

[DonMartin]

David:

I just learned about this situation this afternoon while on my way back from Las Vegas.

Here is what happened. All of the Supplemental Hunter Ed stuff was dropped off at the Region III Game & Fish office soon after the class was over.

That is standard protocol.

When someone from that office goes to Phoenix, they are suppose to take the box to the Hunter Ed folks.

According to Zen Mocarksi, the Region II I&E guy, he sent out two e-mails to everyone in the office advising that the box needed to be taken to Phoenix.

As of today, no one had picked up the box and taken it to Phoenix. Zen's comment was "I guess no one went to Phoenix" which is pure B.S.!

I called Phoenix and spoke to one of the ladies there (Lori was away from her desk) and I told her that they were going to have to get those folks who took the class the bonus point or else I felt the department would be subject to a huge problem since a number of the students were now going into the max bonus point pool for deer.

I also told Mr. Mocarski the same thing, but added if this situation wasn't rectified, then my credibility as a Chief Instructor was shot to hell!

Apparently the folks in Phoenix do recognize the seriousness of the situation and are working to get it cleared up.

In the meantime I can only apologize to David and the other 25 who took the class and assure them that I am following up on this to ensure that EVERYONE who took the class gets the permanent bonus point assigned BEFORE the deer/sheep draw.

I am just a little upset about this and am wondering why it took Phoenix so long to ask about the materials that were turned back in in a timely manner so that there would not be any problems like this.

I know "stuff happens" but this mistake is a serious one for all involved.

Again, as the Chief Instructor for that class, I apologize.

If anyone has any further questions, please feel free to call or write to me.

Don Martin
928-681-4867
[email protected]

 

[Drnaln]

Don,No apology needed! When I talked with Lori she had received the list & was going to enter everyone's Hunter Ed point.Tryed to buy a few extra points but she gracefully declined!
Thanks,David

 

[AZBuckSnort]

At the end of the day, every day, there is always the "human-error element"...as one of Don's instructors on the Kingman Team, I can vouch for his diligence (read=near paranoia)in making sure all the class data gets over to the appropriate office(s)at the Region &/or State.

I'm confident the folks down in Phoenix will get the data all entered in time for the Fall deer & sheep drawing deadline. That being said, sounds like it was good timing or Divine Intervention stirring David to make an inquiry!

Jim