???"ladder of hunting"???

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-05 AT 04:30PM (MST)[p]In a recent conversation with a new friend/hunter that I will be hunting mule deer with this fall, we were talking about goals and sizes of mule deer in the area we will be hunting.

We both commented on how we practice what some call the
"ladder of hunting" which is never shooting any buck smaller then the last one you shot. We feel this way, not only are we allowing bucks to mature, but also providing more opportunity to those that are less experienced or have yet started hunting.

In our hunting "careers" we have both moved passed the "need" to harvest a buck as far as damaged pride is concerned.
And neither of us use the excuses of "filling our freezer" or "I need to kill this two point buck to feed my family" to make shooting that smaller buck justifiable.

Some might call the ladder of hunting, "trophy hunting", but I think it defines it better in regards to our age, experience, what we have harvested already, and choice of weapon.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with a 14 year old killing a two point buck, that's great! But I'm a little concerned about an experienced 40 year olds definition of hunting and calling themselves a sportsman/conservationist when he/she kills a two point year after year.


So my question is: How many of you are practicing the "ladder of hunting" and if you aren't, Why not?


Travis Black
Blanding, UT
 
TRAVIS, THATS A GREAT CONCEPT... I SHOT MY LAST DINK A FEW YEARS BACK. THE CONCEPT IS NOT FOR ALL HUNTERS, BUT A GOOD PIECE OF CONSERVATION FOR ACCOMPLISHED HUNTERS. FOR THOSE WHO NEED THE MEAT...GREAT...FILL THE TAG. YD.
 
Good post! I went home empty handed this year in both CO and AZ because I didn't find one big enough. Both of these hunts were late season trophy hunts. Thats the wonderful thing about getting a little older but wiser. There is absoultley nothing wrong with trophy hunting!!!!! Just my dos centavos.
 
I'll probably get my arse in the fire with this comment but, from my experience guiding and outfitting, some (more than most would believe) of my clients ate their tag because they wanted something exceptional. I appreciate that very much. Most of them were trophy hunters that understand the fact that deer need to get some age on them to mature fully into a magnum buck. Some of the bucks were so big that I guarantee you that I would whack and stack and pack in a heart beat! Gawd, can't wait until Sept.
 
Travis good post, I think it is something we should all think about. Years ago my best buddy explained this concept to me and it really it home. I truly believe it is part of hunting to exercise disicipline to hold out for the right buck, bull etc. I do not need the meat in the freezer and am hunting for myself so I do not worry what others might think if I come back with tag soup, which happens more often than not with my mule deer adventures. Anyway it is a practice I follow and agreee with.
 
Travis

IF YOU STARTED THE LADDER OF HUNTING IN YOUR NECK OF THE WOODS FOR MULE DEER 20 YEARS AGO,THE LADDER BY NOW IS GETTING REAL STEEP & HARD TO CLIMB!!!

I GIVE CREDIT TO THE ETHICAL HUNTERS DOING IT THOUGH NO MATTER HOW STEEP THE LADDER IS!!!

NOW IF W'ERE TALKING ABOUT THEM STINKY MUSIC MAKERS I CAN SEE HOW THE LADDER CAN BE CLIMBED FOR A YEAR OR TWO,BUT WHEN YOU CAN ONLY PULL THE TAG MAYBE ONCE IN A LIFETIME THAT LADDER IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE ALSO!!!

A 360"+ BULL WOULD BE NICE,IF I EVER GET ONE (BIG IF)I WOULD TRY AND HARVEST A BULL EVEN BIGGER IN MY NEXT LIFETIME,ANYTHING SMALLER I'D LET WALK!!!

FOR SOME REASON A RAGHORN BULL DOESN'T EXCITE ME!!!

I WAS GOING TO WISH YOU LUCK,BUT YOU'VE ALREADY PULLED TAGS IN 2005,LOL!!!

THE ONLY bobcat HALF WAY UP THE LADDER AT A REAL SLOW PACE!!!
 
I used to follow the "ladder" concept, but changed a few years ago. I now do the mature buck thing. No, I don't care how many inches he scores. I just want something that looks like he is 4 years old plus. Yes, I can't look in his mouth before I shoot him, but body size, facial features, horn size all play in the decision. I also wouldn't mind shooting a 190" 3 year old buck.haha

I never enjoyed my old mindset of "He only scores 180-183 so I'll pass". I just want to shoot older deer. Sure made the hunt enjoyable again. I passed on over 60 bucks last year from spikes on up to semi mature 4x4s. Saw 2 bucks in the desired age class, but neither let me outsmart them. So next year I'll have to try and settle that score.

I also don't care to pass judgement on those who choose to shoot immature bucks. They bought the tag. They can shoot what they want. I know rich guys that shoot 2 points so they can obtain meat that never had a shot of medication or steriods. I hope everyone can find that which satisfies their hunting desires.
 
Great post Travis, And Rick (the ridge) is not lying...that boy turned down some dandy mule deer bucks last November. I aggre with you guys and rarely shoot a buck myself. I also can't wait for September as "the hunt" is what I'm after. When I hear people talking about success I always say "success has nothing to do with killing". I know a few here would agree....Steve
 
I have killed a ton of two points in my life and finally got my belly full. It just don't do anything for me to kill a small buck any more. A couple of years ago I held out for a good buck and killed one. Since than i have follwed the ladder program.However, I don't think i'll ever be able to pass on a 200+ buck even if I've already killed one.

Mike
 
Travis,
It's always great hearing from a fellow biologist as you try to keep logic in your comments. Having said that, I believe your posting on " Ladder Hunting" serves it's purpose in the the point you were trying to make. I believe your point, if I may, was to try and stress " selective" hunting in an attempt to allow young animals to mature and reach their genetic potential therby being able to pass their genes on for the betterment of the herd's trophy potential. While I am a very selective hunter and believe that others should be as well I feel that "Ladder Hunting" shouldn't necessarily be followed to it's truest definition as you described.
First, in today's hunting world a large percentage of the hunting population does not have the same amount of hunting opportunities due to many factors which are too long and complicated to mention here or discuss. The trophy hunts are for the most part very limited and very hard to draw. For example in my home state of arizona if you apply for the top deer and elk areas you are lucky to get drawn every 8 years. With that in mind, I want to paint a picture using my 4 year old son as an example. Lets say I start putting him in for these quality hunts at 10 years old. He finally draws at 17 an elk tag in a top unit. For arguments sake, I feel confident we can harvest him a 375 bull due to the unit and my familiarity with it. Do you meen at the age of 17 he now can only shoot a 375+ bull for the rest of his hunting life? There are many other situations similar to this one where I don't feel that Ladder Hunting is the best solution for both the hunter and the Herd's betterment.
My point is can we really expect or even ask people to only shoot animals bigger than the last one. And furthermore, what is bigger? Gross,net,typical,nontypical?
Again I think I know what your point was and I agree. We could use alot more selective hunters out there to allow for more quality animals and thus more quality hunts. But I will tell you that if I have shot a 390 bull and with my next tag, which I waited 8 years to get,a 380 bull walks by at 30 yards with 2 days left of hunting, I'm smoking him.
Let the animals mature and use some discipline but within reason!
 
bubbas

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR SON,BUT!!!

IN CERTAIN CASES I DO THINK WE SHOULD ASK PEOPLE TO ONLY SHOOT BIGGER ANIMALS THAN THE LAST ONE THEY HARVESTED,AND I'M THINKING OF ONE PERSON IN PARTICULAR!!!

THE OLE BOY THAT DOYLE MOSS TOOK AND HARVESTED THE STATE RECORD BULL ON THAT 'FREEBIE' HUNT,YA THATS WHO I'M THINKING OF,PEOPLE LIKE HIM SHOULD ONLY BE ABLE TO TAKE SOMETHING BIGGER,THIS BASICALLY MEANS HE OUGHT TO STAY HIS DUMB A$$ HOME!!!

THE GUY AIN'T GOT A CLUE TO WHATS GOING ON!!!

NO OFFENSE,BUT IF YOU CAN TELL A 380 BULL FROM A 390 BULL IN THE WILD I GIVE YOU ALOT OF CREDIT ON JUDGING!!!

I WOULD FEEL LOTS SAFER HUNTING IN AND AROUND HUNTERS LIKE WHO'S POSTED ABOVE,RATHER THAN HUNTING AROUND PEOPLE THAT SHOOT AT ANYTHING & EVERYTHING THAT MOVES,KNOW WHAT I MEAN???

THAT LAST STATEMENT YOU MADE ABOUT LETTING THE GAME MATURE IS A GREAT IDEA,I SURE WISHED THIS STATE WOULD WAKE THE HELL UP AND LET IT HAPPEN!!!

THE ONLY bobcat PART WAY UP THE LADDER,BUT I'M NOT LETTING A TWO POINT KNOCK ME DOWN FROM WHERE I'M AT!!!
 
My rule is 4 point or better atleast 27' wide. or I go home very satisfied..The killing aspect of hunting has always been the least enjoyable part of the hunt for me..Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad thing it's just not my favorite part..What I really get a rush at is outsmarting that big old buck on his turf and making a perfect killing shot. I don't need to kill "just any buck" to feel successful....
 
I mostly hunt to shoot something that means something to me. Might be a non typical or a larger deer. Might be something that turns me on like a huge forky. Generally I will not shoot anything that doesn't mean something to me.

That being said I love to eat also. And love wild game more than beef. For that purpose I will shoot antlerless or a 1st year buck if I have to, rather than shooting a promising deer.

I don't think its fair to ask folks not to shoot to fill the freezer. But the way I do it, waiting till the last evening, I am often MT in the freezer out of state. I happen to prefer muley over whitetail on the table but no muley and a few whitetails or if I get lucky a few Axis does go to the freezer.

I think my personal method is a good compromise.

Jeff
 
I think everyone above has their valid comments, and having never shot a buck smaller than my last (if three muleys total counts) I like the idea for myself personally. I was not raised that way though. My dad grew up needing the meat and he still prefers it and he takes what he can get when he starts worrying about not being able to tag a nice one. Basically everyones definition of "hunting" might be a little different and I might not like it, but I think we all have the same goal, A great experience and great memories.

On a different note (not that this could ever happen) If every hunter did not shoot a buck unless it was bigger than the last, would it defeat the purpose of managing deer herds? Basically I think hunter success rates would go so far down that it could defeat the purpose of keeping overall herd numbers at a healthy level. Of course this would not be true in areas that need those herd numbers to go up. Any comments?
 
Like it has been mentioned before everybody has their own goals and standards when it comes to hunting. I don't necessarily think any are right or wrong but thay might be different than my own.

Me personally, I used to shoot the first thing I saw that was legal. However, over the last 10-12 years ( I am 41 now ) I have become more selective. I had a Kaibab deer tag this year and I came home empty handed because I didn't see the "one" I wanted. Wasn't sure exactly what I was looking for but I wanted something heavy that was wider than their ears. I did have more than 30 different bucks withing shooting range too. My hunt was still a success as far as I am concerned.

I have always looked at hunting as a way to scientifically manage our herds as well. If G&F issues 500 tags in a unit and the success rate is typically 20%, they expect aprox 100 deer to be harvested. They want that many animals killed not 20 or so. The habitat can only support so many animals. If people only shot big bucks then we would need to start taking some does.

IMO
John
 
In my opinion, the trophy is in the eye of the hunter. If someone is completely satisfied with a small buck, and that buck is taken legally, then more power to them!!! I've not passed on many bucks in my day, but I have passed on some. To each their own....

Travis, I found your comment about being "a little concerned about an experienced 40 year olds definition of hunting and calling themselves a sportsman/conservationist when he/she kills a two point year after year." interesting. How is this person any less of a sportsman/conservationist than you? How about doe or cow elk hunts? Are people who participate in these hunts any less of a sportsman because they're shooting the 'girls'? :) So what if an experienced hunter shoots a 2 point each year? If he does it legally, follows safe ethical hunting practices and cleans-up camp when he's done, then in my opinion he IS a good sportsman!

My boy is coming of hunting age, and I'm definitely not going to bring him up thinking that he needs to ultimately get to the point of only killing big bucks to consider himself a sportsman/conservationist. I'll expect him to respect the animals, laws, land, and fellow hunters. His choice of how large of a legal critter he wants to kill will be left entirely up to him. ;-)

S.

:)
 
Good post and good thoughts. I'm getting older and I have not shot mnay critters for almost 20 years. I guide hunters, so they'll give me all the meat I want - no need for me to shoot much. I have not shot a deer in Wyoming this century. I'd like to see more areas managed for quality, but also there should be areas managed for quantity and especially for youth and beginning hunters.

My way of dealing with all of this has been to evolve to primitive weapons. I now hunt a lot more with the muzzleloader and archery equipment than I did in the past. Hunting to me is no longer about the harvest; it's about getting out in an uncrowded area and having a chance to see and hopefully whack a BIG deer.

But to each his own. There are all sorts of hunters and as long as you obey the laws and hunt respectfully, I'm all for everyone having a chance to meet their own needs.
 
I mostly hunt the California "B" Zones where we can take two bucks per year. (Blacktails). Usually I'll take the first decent buck I see (2-point with good mass, or better, lol) to stick in the freezer. Then I'll hold out for a more mature buck with my last tag. Only 7 or 8 years have I taken 2 deer in one year.( some years I'll go without getting a shot all season)

If I travel out-of-state to hunt mule deer, then it's trophy hunting all the way. I've only killed 3 mule deer so I can't say I "ladder" hunt, but my expectations get higher every time. I have no desire to shoot a 2 or 3 point mule deer, or even a small 4x4.

I respect anybody who has a different opinion than mine though. If it's legal and it makes you happy, then I'm happy for you!

Steve
 
eelgrass

JUST WONDERING HOW IT FEELS TO TAKE A BIGGER TORTISE EVERYTIME YOU HARVEST ONE???

THEY'VE GOT TO BE GETTING PRETTY BIG BY NOW!!!

HAVE YOU EVER HAD TORTISE FEVER???

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING HOW FAR UP THE TORTISE LADDER YOU ARE???
 
I dont know about ladder. I average a buck about every 5 years. About 6 in 29 years of hunting. except for the first they have all been mature bucks. I just hate to end the season. Travis , I really enjoyed last nights Trail of The Sportsmen. The big bulls with the red rocks in the back round were really cool. IMO best hunting show on TV. Most of em make me cringe. You guys make it look like its suppost to.
 
Bobcat (the one and ONLY),

I've never had turtle fever! You see, I've never drawn the coveted tag! I keep getting "UNSUCCESFUL" in the mail.

Right now my turtle ladder is a foot stool! LOL

Steve
 
I practice this with antelope hunting only. Deer and elk I shoot what comes around and not worried about size.
 
I killed a deer this past year with my muzzleloader that is a 10 x 9 and scores 255 1/8 gross an 246 2/8 net. Some people have told me that I just as well quit because I'll never get a bigger one. My response is I don't hunt for that reason. It's the whole experience that does it for me. If I ever get to the point where I have to only kill bigger than I've already taken then I'll probable quit. If I go hunt for a week and the biggest buck I see, I take and I hunted hard, I got no problem taking a 20" four point and I'll be just as happy as I was this past year.. And if a person I'm hunting with wants to shoot a small buck I'm not going to say a word. I don't feel anyone has the right to tell anyone else to only shoot big. What works for some doesn't work for others. I'll be happy for anyone that takes an animal big or small.

Evan
 
I think that most hunters have an evolutionary process that tends to lean toward this ladder concept. However, as stated earlier, I think most people will become a hunter who wants to shoot a mature animal, not neccessarily one that is just bigger than the one before. I don't score antlers, so those numbers have no meaning. How do you compare a 30" 4x4 with a 25" very tall 4x4, with a rack with kickers, etc. Which one of these is "bigger than anything I have ever killed"? As long as hunters evolve into shooting only mature animals, I think that it serves the same purpose. Especially if you shoot an old knarly buck on the downhill side of his antlers.

In Texas, where I have taken many a whitetail, I rarely shoot a buck and definately use the ladder concept. When I want meat, I can shoot several does. However, I have just taken up bowhunting and will be chasing elk next fall. I suspect that the first legal elk that walks by will be in trouble, whether it is a big bull, a raghorn, or a cow. After taking "an elk" with a bow, I suspect that the evolution with a bow will take hold and I will become more selective and try and take a mature animal.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I haven't taken one step up my "deer ladder" since 1986. Maybe I have set to high of a goal, but can't ever shoot a dink again. If I ever get committed to archery hunting, the ladder would start over for that weapon. The ladder concept, if followed by more experienced hunters would result in more mature and quality animals.

But what do we do with these guys?
Never will I forget driving by a camp in the early 90's seeing two proud hunters in their mid-thirtys hanging two forkies that looked the size of my old lab. They were already starting the celebration by the amount of beer cans on the tailgate, and juvenile behavior.

Ed
 
I totaly agree with shooting mature bucks. However if we as sportsman are really interested in the well being of the herds shooting some selective small bucks doesn't hurt a thing. The last buck I shot was a 2 point. On the last day of a 14 day season I shot him out of a group of 5 bucks. He was standing next to a perfect 4x4 but he was only 22" so I let him go I can see his potential. On the other hand the one I shot was visibly a inferior buck. If you have been hunting a long time you can tell that some bucks just aren't going to get to the quality we want. Take them out your not hurting a thing. Some bag me for shooting a 2 point but it was more about the one's I passed that has me exited.
 
Bigbull,

Again as I stated earlier, a part of hunting should be about having a good time and creating memories. And not everybody has to have the same goals in terms of what size buck they will shoot. I don't see the problem of celebrating with a couple of beers? I bet most of us like to down a couple after taking our deer and getting them back to camp. Not everyone is going to shoot only mature bucks, and I think that is okay wether you or myself like it or not. I suppose one can take the drinking celebration a little too far, but from what I've read they have done nothing wrong. And have done nothing to make themselves less of a hunter. As far as I'm concerned they've done the sportsmanlike thing by cleaning up their game and hanging the meat rather than wasting game or whatever.

So to answer your question, I don't think anything needs to be done about these guys.
 
I have been using this concept for a long time, however, I got to the top of the ladder and fell off in Mexico. The 38 incher I shot, has me wondering what to do next! Maybe lots of garbage. I still have hopes of more 30+ bucks. On the ranch I can let the Blacktails grow, but they never seem to get big enough.
 
Blueoak

YOU MUST KEEP CLIMBING THE LADDER,OR SHOULD I SAY YOU MUST KEEP TRYING TO CLIMB THE LADDER,LOL!!!

YOU'RE DONE,ADMIT IT!!!

BY THE WAY,HOW THE HELL DOES IT FEEL TO TAKE A 38"ER???

I'M SURE I'LL NEVER KNOW!!!

IF YOU HAD THE TWO BIGGEST MULEYS FROM THE AREA I HUNT,YOU STILL WOULDN'T HAVE A 38"ER COMBINED!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING: 38" HAS GOT TO BE CLOSE TO THE TOP OF THE LADDER,IF I LOOK STRAIGHT UP A LONG,LONG WAYS I CAN ALMOST SEE THAT STEP!!!
 
fowladdict,

I'm the first guy to celebrate when I achieve a noteworthy successful hunt. It wasn't the beer drinking; it was taking two very young bucks out of a low buck ratio area that pi$$ed me off and attitude like they had two booners to show the world.

Maybe your right, it could have been their best or only bucks ever killed at thirty-something.

Ed
 
Ed (bigbull),

I think I understand where you are coming from, I might get razzed by this a bit, but I'm a pretty hardcore waterfowler and I try to avoid shooting hens because i believe by doing that I'm helping the overall numbers by allowing them to live and reproduce. In a way the mature buck theory is kind of the same, if more hunters were selective the numbers might be a little better.

But, I still see no fault in what these guys have done. (Remember this is just my opinion and no one has to like it) I was taught by my father and grandfather that if I'm going to kill an animal I should be proud of it, and if the guys took two young bucks and were proud of it they should be otherwise they should not have taken them. Someone said earlier the trophy is in the eye of the beholder and I think that applies here. And then again, Some guys actually might rather shoot a younger buck due to the belief that the meat is more tender than that of a mature buck. If it upset you that these guys took young bucks in a low buck ratio area than I don't think you should be upset with them you should be upset with the fish and game. The majority of guys don't do the homework that you do, they don't study the numbers. If the ratio is what you say it is the way to improve that ratio is by limiting tags and having a 3 or 4 point or better system. If that is not in place a lot more deer are going to be killed. It seems to work here in Idaho. I think all of us have our opinions on this subject and I'm just giving mine, anyways......
 
I have always scouted hard for whatever hunt or permit I have and then try to harvest the biggest buck I find. Even if the buck is not bigger then some I have taken. Any buck that gets my heart pumping is a buck I know I would love to put my tag on him. However it does seem that over the years they got to have some good head gear to get the heart racing.

jdh
 
I was just wondering, is climbing this ladder sort of like jumping off the barn? When I was a kid I used to hear the older guys tell the younger guys to "go jump off the barn" if they needed to grow some cajones.
I think it takes cajones to pass up the little bucks and let them go, but it takes a real big pair to let a big buck go in hopes of finding a real toad.
In all seriousness hunting is a personal adventure, and no one should have to answer to anyone else for the size of animal they kill. I come from a family that is well diversified in the hunting ladder theory. My dad loves to kill deer,and will search for a big one for a while, but at the end of the hunt anything with antlers could well end up swingin in the barn!
My brothers normally shoot the first legal buck, and go home. They have killed some nice bucks over the years, but the norm is a 2 or 3 point.
I took a lot of crap when I was 16 because I told my uncles I was holding out for a 30 incher. They laughed and told me that they had only killed two of them in the last 20 years, and that I had a lot of learning to do before I could even see a thirty incher. Sure enough, I didn't kill a thirty incher that year, and it was tough for me to get teased. I did kill a smaller buck, and I don't regret it.
I have killed a pretty good bunch of bucks since then, but the one thing I tell young hunters is that to kill big bucks you must learn how to kill first. Guys that have killed big bucks have killed small bucks, and everything in between, and the experience they gain has helped them graduate into a better, more effective hunter. You don't step up to the plate and swat home runs until you have spent countless hours a day for years learning how to do it. Some people will never kill a big buck, because they don't know how, and won't learn. Killing big bucks is something that can be learned, and if you don't believe it take a look around and you will see a small group of guys that take a big one or two almost every year. Are they that lucky? Not! They have these qualities: They are persistent, tough, dedicated, studious, alert, thorough, and many others that make the pieces of an intricate puzzle. How do they learn? They have a desire, and then most will study with someone who can teach them. Almost every big buck slayer has learned much of what they know from another hunter that truly knows what he is doing.
I have to agree with the ladder concept, and to me it does not mean that I can only take a deer that is larger than one I have previously taken. It means I have made it to a higher personal level and I can now pass up bucks that wouldn't mean a thing to me with no pain of conscience afterwards.
I do not laugh or chastise another hunter for taking a small buck. Hunting is almost spiritual to me, and I would not want to ruin the feeling for someone else by criticising his buck.
I know I have rambled on too long, but I think it's ok to climb the ladder, descend the ladder, or just stand on the ladder, but the most important thing is to out in the hills! Go hunting, and teach your kids to hunt.
 
"But I'm a little concerned about an experienced 40 year olds definition of hunting and calling themselves a sportsman/conservationist when he/she kills a two point year after year."



Don't question someone's dedication to hunting because they harvest small bucks. If they get satisfaction from hunting and killing younger deer, more power to 'em. It's their right to harvest any legal animal. As long as they don't complain about never killing a big buck, I don't care what they shoot.

I've shot way more little bucks than I have big bucks. I love to hunt and I love to shoot deer. I have a hard time letting a tag go un-punched. And I know full well that I can't kill a big buck if I'm gutting a little one...


'It's all about the gut pile'
 
fowladdict,

Totally agree with a 3 or 4 point system or even closing areas for awhile in order to improve buck ratios and quality/maturing of deer.

Ed
 
I am new to the forums and this one intrigued me. I agree that as the years have passed I tend to lood for bigger deer. I am a little more picky especially at the beginning of the year. But I have a hard time letting a tag go unfilled and will shoot a small one on the last day. If you were to walk into my house you would see the 2 point horns on the wall right next to the 4 and 5 point horns. Each animal I have shot is special to me. The size of the horns don't matter as much to me but the memories they represent. The friends and family I was with when I shot them. When I look at those antlers (2 points, 4 points, whatever) I see the hunt not just the bone. Don't get me wrong, I would love to get a monster and I hike my butt of every year looking for one. I have a couple of decent ones but nothing huge. But in the end it is processing meat myself off an animal that I killed and talking about the experience that do it for me. To each his own. I admire every set of antlers.

thatcherwyo
 
once you get past the half-century mark in age your rules change. i've shot a lot of big bucks. now about the only rule i have is no spikes, on muleys anyway. still won't shoot a little elk. but i try real hard to never ever judge another hunter for how they hunt and what they shoot. at least they're hunters. if we start putting ourselves in different classes then we're playing right into the hands of the anti's. not a dang thing wrong with trophy hunting either. if you're good enough, then do it, but don't bash a meat hunter or the casual hunter who's only foray into the wild each year is during deer season. tell em "good job" on that forky they're proud of and go about your business. if a hunting ladder is what does it for you, then go for the top rung. but don't judge the guys that stay on the stepladder.
 
I practice the ladder system. Strictly on myself. It was something I decided to do after my first good muley buck. I don't pass judgement on any other hunter as to the size of headgear any animal that one might take has. I also have a couple dinks from years ago that are my most treasured trophies. I also do not like an unfilled tag. Fortunately here in MT, I can use my buck tag for a tasty, grain fed whitetail doe if the big muley eludes me. Everyone must set their own standards. I know a lot of folks that subscribe to the "you can't eat them antlers" standard. More power to them. mtmuley
 
I haven't practiced this method to it extreme. I have passed my share of smaller bucks and I have shot some also. This story will paint the frustration many of us have experienced through the years: Last years ML hunt I snuck up on a decent little 3X4 with LOTS of potential and a small fork horn. I continued my little loop after I had convinced myself to pass on him only to come accross a couple guys later who had shot both of them! Not really a big deal it just frustrated me that I passed a decent buck and he didn't even turn one day older. We have all experienced something like this before and there is nothing wrong with it, I just wish more people we share the mountains with understood the POTENTIAL that comes with AGE.
 
YAH, I only shoot something bigger then the last deer. It's the Only Ethical thing to do. I'm an Ethical hunter and on the Internet My Chit don't stink. Last year I shot a 212 12/32 Buck and this year I passed up a 210 5/8 (Might have been 210 16/17, not exactly sure, it was Jumping over a Log 825 yards Away so I only had 4.24 seconds to take a look at it but I'm sure I'm within 3/18". Just wasn't bigger then then the last Buck I killed so I passed it up........

assclown.jpg



  • [*] -Moosie
~~If you're going to walk on thin ice, Ya might as Well DANCE !!
WALK the TALK, Or shut the HECK UP !!
 
MAN, Can I kill a thread or what ???!?!

And To think I've been waiting for YoukanSam or BFD to pipe in with some wisdom ;)

OHHHH, I'm thinking about changeing my signature :

"It doesn't matter if they are saying good things or bad things about me, what matters is that they are talking about me."

Anyways, I drew a New Mexico hunt and have no Clue about it, Something about the Jicarilla border late season BLAH BLAH BLAH... Maybe I should be nice so I can Get a Buck bigger than my Last New Mexico Buck, I think it went 318 19/132 or something close to that ?


  • [*] -Moosie
~~If you're going to walk on thin ice, Ya might as Well DANCE !!
WALK the TALK, Or shut the HECK UP !!
 
A couple of thoughts after hunting for over 40 years. My 'ladder' will have been time itself, hunting year after year, learning each hunt, each year, about what makes for more skill in outfoxing white faced, decent muley bucks. My ladder of bucks has gone up and down in view of how big, when big, when not big, when only that it counted the big bucks were there. I started in the 60s in Colorado when I missed more big bucks than I have likely shot since, on into the 70s when I took more big bucks than ever since, on into the 80s when simply hunting with my dad (no deceased) was my record book experience, and on into the 90s where once again one major league buck found his way onto my chandelier, and to today in the 2000s where I hunt to hunt, and the end result is not that important guys. I smile these days simply knowing big bucks are back again in Colorado, and I kind of hope they get away, to live another year. Give that I am taking my 22 year old daughter Lindsey hunting this fall, in Gunnison, the 3rd season, dad's reinvestment back into hunting. I wouldn't trade that opportunity for all the 36 or so muley bucks I've taken over the years. She if she can carve out time take a really nice buck, yet not that many years back the bucks in Gunnison were scarce as hen's teeth. Thanks to the local folks reducing tags by 90% to allow some bucks to come back, and yes guys they are back, not all huge, yet many, many, many decent bucks.

Horns guys are not that important... hunting is. My best buck was only 26" wide, yet scored gross score 208. Width means zilch. If they look big take them. My best buck and most favorite buck was the ugliest horns you could imagine, totally unmatched, yet a massive old buck. I never scored a buck before shooting one, yet about 1 in 3 or 4 ended up being a big mature muley, alot of luck, yet even more sweat expended. If you are not in their back yard, which is not a 1/4 mile off a ATV or 200 yards from camp, or along a 4x4 road, you are not going to get a big buck even in the best units. Big bucks do not hang around where 50-75% of the hunters hunt. They are about 2 drainages back in, where most would say a hunter is nuts to go, and where many hunters might say too little cover. Hey guys, ask yourself where you would be if you had 28" tall horns and 7" brow tines? Horns simply don't matter, taking care of the resource does. Therefore, if you are about meat, which my family was in my growing up, we simply learned to hunt. The horns came later, as a bonus, when they did. All the hunts made me a better hunter, not waiting for the 10 preference pt. unit, which I will never have. Some of my best bucks were from the worst units, taken on the last day of the seasons, simply making that last valient effort to hunt when you were discouraged, sore, and others were long gone. As I say, we hunted. Isn't that what we all look forward to. For those of you that think you need a ton of preference pts. forget it. Learn to hunt, each day, each season. I think the total focus on horns is off base, yet I can champion you hunters whom pass up the smaller bucks to let that buck live to another season. Knowing the white face bucks are back makes me, and I think my deceased dad and grandfather smile alot. In the end only the resource counts.
 
Walnuthunter... that was the best post of all I hope these young guys read this and learn.
 

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