Land Unitization is a bunch of BS!!!!!!!

[agrvarminthunter]

I don't know if any of you have been out there and seen this crap on the ground but the public hunter got screwed big time on this deal. The Rio Feliz trade looks real good on the map. Yeah they traded the creosote rolling hills for some of the best big buck and big ram area west of Roswell. Also, we talked to a landowner in the area that told us that they area they supposedly "opened up to us" has always been accessible. This trading public hunting rights crap has got to stop. The Game and Fish really used the gut hook on us this time. A bunch of you out there think that us hunters were so fortunate to get private land opened up for hunting. A crock of CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the agenda of a bunch of these groups advocating for public hunters in New Mexico are not doing the normal guy any good. I think I want to start my own group that actually does their research and doesn't let political BS get in the way and go after these suckers at Game and Fish that are slowly turning the wildlife in this state to the worst resource we have.....


I am still steaming from the weekend after having my spots picked out to go and not realizing they had been closed off because I didn't go to a little tab in the corner of the website where all this BS is hidden.

 

[jamaro]

I don't know if you noticed but very few groups took a stance on this one... It was too confusing and there was no win for anybody... because someone was going to loose a honey hole one way or another.. And no there wasn't public legal access to alot of that country... I think that the dept held a bunch of meetings on this and I am pretty sure they didn't get much input... I have already had 4 emails asking about this deal and I am not sure what to say... The dept led this and nobody was really engaged.. NOW people are complaining...


J-

 

[dang302]

If the land owners agrees to it than they are getting the better deal. Period. I don't believe these agreements can ever be mutually beneficial. Not to mention the fact that its just confusing. Now I can hunt some public land, but not some public land?

 

[RabidRattleSnake1]

I agree with you whole heartedly!!! I know exactly where you are talking about because that is exactly where I sheep hunt. I did complain when I did see the land swap in the works last year, but to no avail. I even contacted NMWF and talked to those guys down there stating how crappy this deal was hoping they would get the word out. No luck there either. The NMDGF basically gave away a bunch of BLM and State land (hunting rights) for land that we essentially already had access to (if you can read a flippin map). What the landowner gave in return for the good State and BLM is pretty much devoid of life, unless you count bugs and snakes. I just don't get the NMDGF. Every single time a landowner asks for something they cave in and give it to them. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE UNITIZATION DEALS IS A BUNCH OF CRAP!!! What incentive would a land owner have in trading rights to land they have for something equally as valuable. I guess I just need to bust up and buy some crappy land next to some awesome public land and then go ask the NMDGF for a handout, I mean unitization land swap??

 

[RabidRattleSnake1]

No disrespect Jamaro, but I totally disagree with your statement of ?someone was going to loose a honey hole one way or another.? The only ones losing honey holes are public land hunters. In this particular land swap virtually every single area ?given? to the public was already accessible via public land, albeit it was a long walk.

Does anyone know the duration of the unitization agreements? Are they renewed on an annual basis? If a group (NMWF)was to get after it they could possible help end this BS by next year?s hunting season if they are renewed on an annual basis.

I don't have a tag this year, but I would suggest that anyone with a tag bring people with them that don't have tags. Those people that don't have tags could go ?sightseeing? on the unitized BLM where the sheep are. To the best of my knowledge there is nothing keeping non-hunters out of the unitized BLM. You never know, they might ?accidently? push the sheep over to the new unitization areas. I have one section in mind that is likley loaded with sheep not too far from a legal hunting area.

 

[jamaro]

I will bring it up to the Board.. I will be the first to admit, that we asked for input and we didn't get much.. Then we tried to work with the Dept and it seems that we were tracking a moving target... Let me see what I can come up with.
J

 

[dang302]

what I also find humorous about this one is that: the land "gained" is 90% public (and was accessible - I know, I have hunted there), and the land lost is also 90% public.

Sadly, your never gonna get much input on any of these because they are one (relatively) small complicated area that only those that know the area well will be able to respond...and they will always be few.

I have a new thought: Never trade public for public...cause all that does is take away public and nothing is gained.

 

[muley_crazy85]

I don't hunt that area that you all are referring to but I hunt just down the road in unit 30 and I ran into locked gates and closed roads that have been open for 20 years. So I go down to the state land office here in Roswell and talked to the guy about it and he pretty much tells me there is nothing he can do about it. He tells me that the rancher doesn't have to give me road access and he can close any road he doesn't want to use anymore. I guess I will just have to start carrying my bolt cutters. If they can close roads I guess I have the right to open them. Same thing happened on my deer hunt locked gates on public land there is nothing more frustrating then scouting a place for weeks and then on opening day you show up and the gates are locked.

 

[1FastGambler]

Muley, if the land you are talking about is State Land, you would be breaking the law by cutting their locks.

 

[muley_crazy85]

It's not just one spot it is multiple spots some are state and some blm. I always try the leagal and honest way but it does no good ranchers just do what they want and nothing ever happens to them. It's funny how if they lock The gate illegally it's no big deal but if I cut the lock then it's breaking the law. That's the kind of backwards thinking in am talking about. And not all ranchers are like that I know plenty of good ranchers.

 

[JACOB2006]

I thought about this while I was locked out of my sheep spot near the Felix ranch. Lets form a" union "if you draw you pitch in 10 extra dollars. We use that money to buy the grazing rights. No hunting no grazing.

 

[NMPaul]

I remember when this was first proposed.

I tried to figure out the map on the website and really could not figure out what was up.

I was pretty busy at the time and did not put much effort into it.

My impression also is that a landowner will only better his position and not worsen it.

Hunters are unorganized as a rule. Like herding cats, no surprise stuff like this happens basically unopposed.

 

[Trad Bow 1979]

Excuse my ignorance guys... The map that NMDGF provides showing access points and areas you can hunt shaded in green which includes the private land within those boundries. The areas shaded in red indicate private AND BLM land that you are not allowed to hunt on. So a bunch of you veteran sheep hunters had honey holes in the restricted areas. I can see if there is private land the ranchers do not want hunters on, but how can they restrict BLM lands from us? I have written the game commission several times asking explanations of other things in the past, they never respond. Is there an effective way to get those guys to hear us? Or do they just post their email addresses so that our issues can fall on deaf ears?

 

[mozey]

Does someone have link to what you all are talking about?

 

[jamaro]

Here is a link..
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/recreation/hunting/documents/unitized_ranch/index.html

We had a few people looking at this and to be honest it was hard to make out without really knowing the country..

IF THIS IS WRONG WE NEED TO MAKE IT RIGHT...

We are stretched pretty thin right now because of the session but let me see what I can find out.

J

 

[agrvarminthunter]

Jason,

I am telling you this stinks as much as anything. Might be taking a risk of not getting to hunt the private land that has always been hunted, but honestly, it really isn't sheep or deer country. Everyone knows that in order to hunt quality sheep and deer one has to be willing to go off the beaten path and this has honestly taken that opportunity away from the public land hunter.

 

[dang302]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-13 AT 09:21AM (MST)[p]82nd....you are correct(about some private gained), but that access gained is only marginally helpful as there is a way to get into that(public) land already. Basically it makes some of that area road huntable (no one will ever get one that way of course). But the land that we gained access to was already accessable you just had to walk a little farther.

Again none of this is makes a lot of sense looking at the map. You have to have had boots on the ground and covered many miles of this country to understand whether or not this benefits us.

The "Honey holes" you reference were on the public land that we are no longer allowed to hunt.

 

[jamaro]

Let me see what the specifics are about this "Deal"..
J-

 

[kimbersig]

quit yer bitching kevin! LOL yep it sucks. a few of the unitizations are mutually beneficial but i agree most are not benefitial to the public hunters

 

[IChaseCoues]

This deal basically took a crap on the guy who sits and studied maps and then walks his a.. off to get into a good spot. Just another case of throwing a good hunting spot out the window.

 

[mozey]

Just spent my first weekend down there. In a way you could say it has helped the average joe. Now all those average joes can drive to where I used to hike to. Won't be long til the sheep move a couple more miles out, but the problem for us hikers is that there is not two miles of public land left, so we'll be stopped about half mile short of where the sheep will be.

I'm getting too old for this crap anyway...

 

[jamaro]

Ok guys I need some help on this one... I was able to get some feedback from the board and this is something we would like to address or at least look at. There is a bunch of stuff that has been said by the dept and done by the dept that just doesn't sit right with a lot of people. I can't really get into it but we are looking for people to talk to about this. PLEASE EMAIL ME AT
[email protected] in the subject line please put Felix Ranch..

I can't promise anything but we want to get some solid input from people that are familiar with the area and are willing to speak up.

Thanks
J-

 

[RutCrzd]

Definitely threw a huge kink in our plans. Ruined the little bit of good country there was left to hunt.

 

[jamaro]

Just a quick follow-up I only got one email so if you have issues with this and want to see if we can change it please let me know...
J

 

[mozey]

Just my own thoughts on this.

I think G&F achieved their intended result of getting hunters easier access to some of the public land where barbarys currently reside. However, I think the unintended but eventual consequence will be that the barbarys will now be pressured on to the private land. Barbarys need space, and easier access doesn't do any of us any good if there are no barbarys left on the public land once we get there...

 

[agrvarminthunter]

Hey everyone,

So my hunting buddy sent in emails to the commissioners and the director about this issue. The responses were very unprofessional for the most part. The director was very receptive and indicated that this was the kind of feedback they needed to have. One of the commissioners from the Albuquerque area indicated that he was tired of us hunters contacting him regarding our problems. I think we need to flood his inbox with these kinds of issues because this is exactly what he was appointed to the commission for. The following is contact information for all those individuals. Notice conveniently the chairman has no email address listed.

Jim Lane-Director of Game and Fish
[email protected]

Jim McClintic-Chairman
Albuquerque
Post Office Box 21027
Albuquerque, New Mexico 87154
Work: (505) 271-4550 Fax: (505) 271-2472


Tom Arvas
Albuquerque
7905 Spain, NE
Albuquerque, New Mexico 87109
Work: (505) 898-4884

Scott Bidegain
Tucumcari
Cell: (575) 403-5254
[email protected]

Paul M. Kienzle III
Albuquerque
P.O. Box 587
Albuquerque, NM 87103-0587
[email protected]

William "Bill" Montoya
Alto
125 Little Creek Hills Road
Alto, NM 88312-9503
Home: (575) 336-2533 Cell: (505) 412-0290
[email protected]

Robert Espinoza, Sr.
Farmington
P.O. Box 6792
Farmington, NM 87499
Work: (505) 324-8208
E-mail: [email protected]

Thomas "#####" Salopek-Vice Chairman
Las Cruces
975 Holcomb Road
Las Cruces, NM 88007
Work: (575) 526-5946 Fax: (575) 526-0867
[email protected]

 

[jamaro]

There is a ton of stuff that I wish I could share with the MM crew but I just don't want to go there...

First let me say thanks to everyone that has emailed me. I will pass those on so we can start building a file(thanks for letting me do this, if you have objections just let me know)

Second, we are in the process of preparing an IPRA to get a list of hunters that were on the hunt and we will ask for feedback.

Jim Lane is the one that made the call not the commission, he is the one that we need to work with but we need to get the surveys filled out and returned so we get some solid data. We asked for the feedback but Jim Lane is saying that the support for this was all verbal? You can choose to believe him or not but there isn't any data that we have been able to get from the Dept.

SO PLEASE fill out and return the surveys... I will also try to keep you posted....

 

[jamaro]

Just following up.. Now that the session is over we will have a little more time to deal with this.. IF you haven't emailed me and you have input please let me know..

J

 

[RioHuntNutt]

I asked about this to a game warden in the Roswell area as I am looking at a leftover deer tag for 32 and he said this deal just drew too many hunters into these couple Unitization ranches. The swap blocked some great Barbary sheep country on the Donaldson Ranch that also held some great muleys.Go figure....Our state land commissioner is a jack wagon any how, the elected officials don't give two rip's , as long as there pocket books and families are taken care of...