Letter or spirt of the law DWR

tstewy · Oct 30, 2009

My cousin and i were on the way down a two track he had his gun in his case fully zipped up he had just missed a once in a life time buck for a general unit 180 class buck and. through the excitment he forgot to take his round out. So they nailed him for being ina vehicle with a bullet in the chamber. Ok i can see if we were driving on main road etc in a truck with the gun out but we were a four wheel drive two track on an atv. I think that sometimes those guys need to use their brains a little. it was a complete accident he did not intentionally go out there to cheat or break the law. I wish people could use a little common sense. He is a pour college kid and does not have pot to piss in i hope the fine is not to big.

Deuce · Oct 30, 2009

I think that for the most part it all boils down to a safety issue. I have also been checked but with much better results. Unloaded is always best when traveling. Mistakes happen.

apollosmith · Oct 31, 2009

Yeah, there's legally no difference between a full-size vehicle and four wheeler or motorcycle. Your friend could fight it and hope for a break.

However, this lack of differentiation is also good in regards to the new vehicle carry law which allows you to carry and conceal a loaded HANDGUN (no rifles) in or on a vehicle even if you do not have a concealed firearms permit. Just keep in mind that if you are concealing on a four wheeler or motorcycle without a permit, you need to unconceal before you step off or you're breaking the law.

Foreman4x4 · Oct 31, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-09 AT 11:22AM (MST)[p]How many excuses do think a law enforcement officer hears in a week? Your cousin broke the law and got caught. Tell him to man up and take his lumps!

Edited to add, my guess is he had a round chambered in case he saw that buck again and didn't want to take the extra time racking one in. Maybe he figured that's what cost him the buck the first go-round? I wish people would use a little common sense.

nochawk · Oct 31, 2009

Reminds me of a event I had down in Arkansas one time right after they passed the Steel shot for waterfowl law...

A week earlier I had been out squirrel hunting in my boat and had a lead shot hull in the frount of the boat I had missed when I cleaned the boat out...well you guessed it, got checked by the Game Warden and he found it. I think the fine was $150 and lost about 6 nice rice fed mallards.

Sometimes it is just easier to pay the fine than to go to court and fight it. sure I could have fought it but how much it your time worth and how much would the lawyer have cost??

Im sure the warden has heard it all. pay up and get on with life.

HillbillyNnevada · Oct 31, 2009

You would be surprised how much you can get your fine or punishment reduced just by requesting a hearing and showing up in Court. Many of the prosecutors that I know are looking to cut a quick deal so that they can make it to happy hour at the local watering hole.

tstewy · Oct 31, 2009

I agree with everyone that it was against the law but it was honestley a mistake and nothing more than that we were 5 mi away from where we shot at the buck he had no intention of doing anymore hunting we were on our way back to the truck. My only complaint is that i think that if a guy made an honest mistake which in this case it clearly was. Maybe a guy could warn him and give him a break i was with the kid and there was no intent to do anything but head back to the truck to go home. That someone could give a guy a break for a true accident . That is all that i am saying was he wrong yes was this truly an accident yes it was if we were still hunting he would have his gun up from not in the back of the rhino in its case in the gun holder.I guess that he wont forget to check again lol. My only problem was with guy he would not even tell us the range on the fine. he was just a straight to the hand book guy. But we wont make the mistake again.

tstewy · Oct 31, 2009

PS When i say we were 5 mi away we had just got back from our hike that took us in 4mi to get to where we shot at the buck we dont even hunt on atvs. sorry forman or what ever your name is i take exception to people calling me out on what they dont know. Honestly if we were trying to still hunt would i have even posted about this. And would i not have stayed in the area and went after that buck instead of loading up on the atvs. we litteraly drive to end of the road and then hike in about 4-6 mi and than we get to our spot. so the kid just made a mistake i hope the judge wills see it as that i guess i will be going to court to see if we can get the fine reduced.

ktc · Oct 31, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-09 AT 09:37PM (MST)[p]If they let everyone go on an honest mistake there would be no tickets written for violations. How does the warden know if it was honest or not? Carrying a rifle on or in a vehicle with one chambered is dumb. Especially if you are not aware of it. Sounds like your friend should use his brains and some common sense? Maybe he will check and double check next time? What he done was very dangerous. Not trying to sound like a dink. Accept responsibility, learn from it, pay the piper, and move on. The warden did the right thing IMHO.

Foreman4x4 · Oct 31, 2009

>PS When i say we were
>5 mi away we
>had just got back from
>our hike that took us
>in 4mi to get to
>where we shot at the
>buck we dont even hunt
>on atvs. sorry forman or
>what ever your name is
>i take exception to people
>calling me out on what
>they dont know. Honestly if
>we were trying to still
>hunt would i have even
>posted about this. And would
>i not have stayed in
>the area and went after
>that buck instead of loading
>up on the atvs. we
>litteraly drive to end of
>the road and then hike
>in about 4-6 mi and
>than we get to our
>spot. so the kid just
>made a mistake i hope
>the judge wills see it
>as that i guess i
>will be going to court
>to see if we can
>get the fine reduced.

You know what they say about excuses...

Deuce · Oct 31, 2009

Look at the post in general hunting forum titled loaded gun, this could have been you or him. Double check, triple check and dont take the chance.

tstewy · Nov 1, 2009

Let me put an end to this he was dumb i have not done that myself it was his fault and it is dangerous your are right one of my best friends lost his sister to an unloaded gun her brother was playing around in the living room with a gun and it went off went through the wall and killed her. My only problem was how the guy acted he would not even tell us around what the fine would be he said that they say not tell anyone what the possible fines are. AKA the letter of the law my intent was to say that i think that personally i would have have given him a verbal toung lashing and let him go that is all that i am trying to say. so i hope i didn't seem like i was trying to justify or make an excuse for what he did if it did than that is my bad. I have taken this approach with people that have stolen from our business there was a guy that walked out with some washers he had in his pocket i took off to stop him and he was already coming back in to the store the letter says he stole them lets call the cops the spirt says i can see this guy made an honest mistake so i told him to be careful next time and let him pay for the washers with out calling the cops . that is all that i was trying to get across i hope my post makes more sense now.

3point · Nov 1, 2009

How would knowing the amount of the fine made any difference at the time of the stop? Maybe the officer himself doesn't know; its up to the judge. I say just learn from the experience.

rugarm77 · Nov 1, 2009

Sounds like the officer was just doing what he hired on to do. He saw a dangerous situation and acted in the best intrest of the public. When you say "he should just use his brain a little" seems the officer did and your cousin did not. It does suck for him but lesson learned and move on. I think you posted on hear expecting other hunters to rally around you but as you can see from responses your cousin needs to learn from this mistake.

shootinfool · Nov 1, 2009

I think that the officer did the right thing. There is no excuse on earth good enough to tell someones family why they are now without the one they love. There is no do overs when it comes to that, and for that reason alone is why they are so strict. I bet your friend will never forget to take the round out of the chamber again.

rutnbuck · Nov 1, 2009

Sorry for your buddy he had to learn the easy way!!! Could have been worse. Maybe 2 hrs later "Oh I didn't know it was loaded" or put it away for weeks on end not knowing it was loaded only to have a real accident with a honest mistake. What a blessing he got. Sorry man but it is serious mistake he cant afford to make. Becoming a hunter the first thing we learn is safty. Back to the basics. Balif wack his pee pee.

I feel better knowing he is ok and no harm done.
Better luck on the big buck next time.

Hats off to the fish cop. Lesson learned. Rutnbuck

FHMAN13 · Nov 2, 2009

My cousin picked up the wrong shot gun that did not have a plug in it for ducks. It was a 185.00 fine for him. The two guns looked just the same (Remington 870) they said to bad you should have made sure before. They will say the same thing I bet.

Deerlove · Nov 2, 2009

we all make mistakes, but I would just pay the fine and learn from it.

ICHABOD · Nov 2, 2009

Sorry Stewy,
I've got to agree with some of the others on this one.
I prefer the "letter of the law" choice when it comes to loaded firearms. As has been said, I would be thankful you found out the "easy" way. That could have ended badly in any number of ways. I personally wouldnt fight it. May do the kid good to have to scrape together a few bucks, while thinking of the possible "bad" outcomes that this honest mistake could have caused.
If he can look at it this way, as opposed to blaming the officer, he will be a better and safer hunter because of it.

------------------------------------------------------
"Yeah, I'll shoot him"

tesmitty · Nov 2, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-09 AT 07:26PM (MST)[p]Badluck....but forgeting there's a round in the chamber is the # 1 cause of accidental gun fatalities...in the end it could be a life saving experience.
I remember receiving a ticket when I was 17 for not leaving evidence of sex on a moose (Once in a lifetime draw my first year of applying). Dickk Bennet had no problem writing me a ticket. Talk about being upset....it just so happened that two Utah fish & game biologists helped me cape, quarter and pack my animal out. Dickk didn't care he wrote the ticket anyway. The real kicker was that I'd been dating his Grand daughter for almost a year. I got the ticket anyway. But his family and co-workers let him have it and eventually the ticket was dropped.

HillbillyNnevada · Nov 2, 2009

tesmitty,
You hit the nail on the head. The name of the game when dealing with a law enforcement officer is "discretion." Officers have discretion to either write you up or let you go. Your job is to convince the officer that you are a good guy and he should give you a second chance.

treedagain · Nov 25, 2009

there are very few 2nd chances given by the UTAH fish and game....remember one thing there 1st directive is LAW ENFORCEMENT not PUBLIC SERVICE.....travel to montana, wyoming or colorado and see that it is the opposite....

bowhunt · Dec 1, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-09 AT 10:35AM (MST)[p]Why did your friend let him check the gun? If it is on or in your vehicle: He has to have reasonable cause that a crime is committed, believe he is in danger, or impound your vehicle.
Just say "I would rather you not search"