Lion for Bob

M

muleybull

Very Active Member
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1,544
Heres a lion from this morning.

66072012_lion_bob.jpg


www.muleybulloutfitters.com
 
It was in self defense, the lion was stalking him. you can see the pee running down his leg.
 
Maybe it's a bad picture and the guy is eight feet tall and four hundred pounds, making the cat look small.
 
My guess is the dogs killed that lion on the ground and the hunter did the right thing by putting his tag on it?
 
I wonder if Bob had to pay $ to go on this hunt? If so, I could take him on a killer mule deer hunt! I know where there is a real nice trophy fawn he could shoot & it would look great mounted next to that kitten!
 
Easy on the bandwagon guys, admittedly it's not the 200 pounder that shows up on the site from time to time, but Bob's probably just big enough to look down and make fun of the little bald patch on top of most of our heads. He's stout enough to grind most of us into powder with one hand without realizing he's doing it. He's no giant, but I would definitely want him on my side.

If you would like, I could make sure I don't post anything under 150 lbs.

Jerks....

www.muleybulloutfitters.com
 
A mature animal regardless of size would be acceptable to just about anyone but this appears to be a kitten and that is why the crap you are getting.
 
This is out of the Cougar Hunting Guide book:

COUGAR IDENTIFICATION TIPS
Get a good look before you harvest the animal you've been pursuing.
You?ve already done the hard part. For hours, you
pursued the cougar across all kinds of terrain. Now,
it's treed, and you need to decide if this is the animal
you want.
Before you pull the trigger, grab your binoculars,
take a close look at the cougar and consider the
following questions:
? Is the cougar legal? The cougar is not legal
if it has spots, is accompanied by young or is
accompanied by an adult.
? Is the cougar an adult? You will be able to tell
by looking at its head, overall size and teeth.
? Is the cougar male or female? Key identifiers
include body and head size and a noticeable
genital spot on male cougars. This is important
because the Division encourages hunters not to
harvest female cougars.

Muleybull, The reason people are saying something about your lion is because, accroding to the Guide book the lion you guys killed was to young because it has spots still on it.
Good looking hounds by the way and good luck on the rest of the hunt.
 
Muleybull,
Not sure what your motivation was to post this picture here. Equally unsure what your motivation was to harvest this cat. I really hope it wasn't just the money. From your response, it seems reasonable that the hunter was physically able to walk to a tree that had an adult cougar in it. If dogs can catch a kitten, they can surely put up an adult lion in good conditions too. If you have seen more than one mountain lion, you know this one is a borderline kitten (being kind here).. Even on a bad year with rough conditions, the hunter and especially the outfitter surely could wait for a better chance to harvest a lion. We battle so many different groups to maintain the way we choose to hunt. This will not help our cause.

Again, not sure what your motivation for any of this was, but I can tell you that the responses here are way more kind than the ones you'd get from the guys I hunt with. You called us "jerks" in your rebuttal, so what do you call a guy that kills the kind of cat you shot? An ethical outfitter and hunter?..
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-12 AT 04:21PM (MST)[p]I have never hunted lion and have no real interest in harvesting one either but would this be a legal kill since spots are present and this is obviousy a kitten? If the rules are as stated previously I would say no this is not a legal animal to harvest and hence should be reported... But then mistakes happen and we do not know the circumstances leading up to this harvest. Maybe the cat was shot on the ground and on the run not leaving ample time to judge. Dunno...

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling
up anyway."
 
Sorry Muleybull, but that's not a legal cat. Not only does it still have spots, but kittens of that age would also most certainly still accompanied by their mothers.....again illegal. That lion would not legal in Utah to pursue, and certainly not legal to kill.

As a guide you have an obligation not only to your client, but also to the state of Utah to see that all game laws are followed in the harvest of an animal. Clearly you have done a disservice to both. I hope this thread makes its way to law enforcement and UDPL.
 
Wow, never had any of my posts get analyzed like this. Kinda like listening to Madden after the Eagles pulled of an impressive flea flicker.

I called you jerks to lighten up the mood (guess I shoulda cleared that up earlier), thinking maybe if you laughed, giggled, or even chuckled a little, the stick might budge.

Lot of stuff about being legal. The game dept in the state I live in didnt mention anything about being illegal when the lion was brought in for the mandatory check in. Huh! Guess we got lucky.... that was a close one! Maybe we will adopt some of the game management techniques you guys are always bragging about over there in Utah. We can only hope!

Motivation for my post..... had to think about that one for a while. Not sure what my motivation was, maybe it was just a post of passion! I did enjoy the read out of the Cougar Hunting Guide Book though.

Not sure on the age, wont get any of that data back for awhile, but I gotta hand it to the tabby's if their giving birth to that kitten. Yikes! Could you imagine!

Figured I'd address some of the issues posted above. But dont worry, were not one of those guys that will charge a friend to go hunting, no money changed hands, even though this idea may sound strange to some

If you feel that I was taking a personal shot at ya then.... well is there really anything I can say here that you wont take as a personal shot.

P.S.
I had a hard time typing up this post with a straight face.

Good luck and post up your next mature animal.

www.muleybulloutfitters.com
 
"Good luck and post up your next mature animal."

Since you brought it up, that isn't even close to a mature animal.
 
Ya know if that cat is legal as you say and was taken under legal conditions then congradulations to the hunter on the harvest.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling
up anyway."
 
As long as it is legal, then good for ya. Its up to each hunter as to what they want to take with their tag, within the rules and regulations. If Bob is happy then I am happy for him. Its nobody elses business wether or not they consider it is a trophy or not, Bob decided to take it. A dead lion is a good lion!! We have too many of them around, especially in NE Utah!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-12 AT 09:35PM (MST)[p]I don't want to seem like I'm piling on here or anything, just some observations. There are hound guys and there are deer hunters that own hounds. It's pretty clear the person who posted this is not a hound guy. And that's OK.

But you have to understand that no matter what state you live in, if you are killing kittens like this one, the deer hunters will be fine with it, but you will take heat from hound guys anywhere! And I glanced at your website and there are some other juvenile lions in your photos, so it's certainly not a one time thing. I guess to each their own.

Aldo Leopold said "Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching - even when doing the wrong thing is legal."

Killing kittens is wrong, even if it's legal.... and unethical.

But turns out it's not legal.... the AZ Regulations, in the Cougar Tables says in bold letters:

"Legal wildlife - Any lion except spotted kittens or females accompanied by spotted kittens."

So your kill was both illegal and unethical, and that's probably why you are taking so much heat for it. You are probably fortunate whoever checked your lion in didn't understand the regulations. I'd say you dodged a bullet there.
 
F-ing PATHETIC. See Utah guys, we have wanna be houndsmen here that kill everything to.
 
>milk lips or not.its dead and
>thats good for wildlife in
>the long run..


Last I checked lions are wildlife and deserve to be managed as such. Tired of the kill em all attitude.
 
Man that sure it a monster cat there!! Good hell I wouldnt of even held that little cat up for a picture,, let alone let someone pay me to take them an kill. I embarressed for ya Muleybull.... Get some ethics and kill some mature cats and worry a little less about your success rate and how much damn money your making..
 
That lion never had an opportunity to chase deer. If someone would have posted a picture of a hunter with a spotted fawn I wonder what you so called ethical deer Hunters would have said....especially if it was a guided hunt.
 
This is no different then the 1,000's of people that shoot spike deer or spike by two. If its legal then good for them! Man, and I thought the campfire had alot of azz holes!
 
>This is no different then the
>1,000's of people that shoot
>spike deer or spike by
>two. If
>its legal then good for
>them!

IF it were a legal kill I'd agree, but clearly it isn't. Kittens with spots are illegal to kill.....as are kittens still accompanied by their mothers. The spots are still visible in the photo posted, but even if they weren't it would still be an illegal kill because cougar cubs stay with their mothers for up to two years. I've been running hounds since the early 80's and have seen literally hundreds of lions in trees, and I'll guarantee this kitten was less than 6 months old. The only way this kitten would have been on it's own was if he killed the mother too......again illegal.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-12 AT 00:16AM (MST)[p]
So Kevin D, are you talking about Utah or the state he killed it in?
 
>This is no different then the
>1,000's of people that shoot
>spike deer or spike by
>two. If
>its legal then good for
>them! Man, and
>I thought the campfire had
>alot of azz holes!

There is no comparison here this would be like killing a spotted fawn . I may be wrong on this but I am not aware of any state allowing the killing of kittens/cubs being legal .

Hounds men need to fight for every bit of what we have. An un-ethical or un educated hounds man can do far more damage much quicker than hundreds of ungulate hunters will to their desired game . We have to fight a mentality that would snuff out our opportunities and have to fight a F&G that pretty much refuses to manage our desired game to be healthy . So Attitudes like yours Dryboot are very common and simply put uneducated . So many of us are very short with our comments on something that seems unethical .
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-12 AT 07:53AM (MST)[p]Notice the spots? Must be a kitten... If no law was broken then its a personal problem for those taking issue.

80427462coug.jpg


"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."
 
Bobs a good guy. He may not be with us ayear from now, I know this was on his bucket list. Some days he can get around alright others he cant soon he might not be able to do much. Gotta thank all the pros on this sight for their say
 
These posts are in no way pointed toward anyone but the outfitter who told his client to pull the hammer on an illegal lion. All you that think this is okay because its a lion are as unethical as the outfitter. Illegal is illegal. And dryboot I had more respect for you until your post. I too love to hunt deer/elk and this is nothing like killing a spike......as Kevin stated this lion is right around 6 months old.
 
I really couldn't care less what you think of me catman. I'm going off of what he said. If this cat was checked by the dwr in his state and was ok then who are any of us to give him crap??? And if it was ok then like I said its no different! Other then the fact you dont like it. Prove his cat is illegal in the STATE he killed it in and I will take your side, if you can't and he was cleared then it is no different then a hunter killing a yearling spike or a 30 inch buck. A legal kill is a legal kill no matter what your moral or ethical standards are. I'm all for letting animals grow and mature(every kind), ya it looks like a young cat, but if he was cleared by his dwr then your opinion doesn't mean jack! If he's lying then I hope he gets what's coming to him.
 
Sorry to hear about Bobs health. Its pretty hard to get to a lion tree even with good health.
 
Gang up on the enemy, not on Bob! Don't know you Bob, but too bad all these activists are beating you up on the computer. Bet they couldn't in the real world!
 
Still you are not getting the point F&G is willing to look the other way when it comes to the hated predator . Still does not mean it was legal . I have seen it happen here several times .
 
What about the fact that unethical is unethical? Illegal or not(it appears illegal). This is considered unethical by most of his peers. The outfitter has stolen a resource from the public. And spots or not, that lion doesn't look much bigger than the dogs. If at all.
 
OK,
Bottom line here is this. There is NO WAY any hunter or outfitter with a valid lion tag in ANY western state should EVER shoot a lion that when held up for a photo has it's feet that far off the ground.

Perhaps illegal, certainly not ethical, and an embarrasment to everyone involved in the "hunt".. Sad day for our sport. If there is a way to get this off the forum, will someone please do it? This doesn't serve any real purpose here except bringing shame on the respectable folks with hounds.

KattSkatt
 
Katt Traxx
You and I both know this is the type of thing that will eliminate our sport. We'll see how the deer herds do when we cannot hunt these predators at all. Not only is its feet way off the ground.....its tail is as well. I just wish Bob would have booked with an ethical outfitter who would have gotten his client a true trophy.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-12 AT 12:59PM (MST)[p]Great picture tailchasers. made me laugh

CATMAN: "We'll see how the deer herds do when we cannot hunt these predators at all"

Did CATMAN just admit that cougars do in fact have a big effect on on mule deer populations? Ouch
 
"That's not what he said at all."

Bummer, I stretched it too far. :)

It just seemed different to hear a lion guy talk that side of it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-12 AT 06:30PM (MST)[p]I'm a lion guy heartshot and yes predators do have an impact on the prey base and to discount that is foolish. Now, having said that I don't cut a third as many lion tracks as I did back in the late 90s. At one time only the deer herds were depressed but no the lions are as well at least in the region I hunt. And for some reason the deer herds have not sprung back like they should have. If somebody ever gets all that stuff figured out please share it with us cause I'm at a loss.........

Now back to the topic: what is a trophy lion and what is worth harvesting and what isn't? Obviously that spotted cat at the beginning of this post is something a person shouldn't take and is most likely not legal in many states. But where do people draw the line on lions? What is a trophy lion?
 
timothymarks,


Why dont you post a picture of the lion you killed on the East Canyon unit with 6 months left to hunt. Were you pressed for time, or just not seeing any lions??? It was on a LE unit with very few tags so it should be a trophy right? Post it up, everyone would love to see it, seems how you are quick to bash others for killing a small lion.
 
Now you know who I am I think its only fair that you tell me who you are, especially since your making this claim. You can do it in a pm if you like, I understand...
 
Let me be more specific since you seem to have forgotten. The lion that you and your father in law treed for Dave Gibson. Lets see a pic, post it up. Or you can't because it still had milk on its lips?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-12 AT 11:19AM (MST)[p]Correction, the lion my father in law treed for Dave Gibson. It was not a kitten, it was a female. Which I also do not agree with and in fact I even told him I didnt like it. however what he does on his own place is up to him. What do these addresses have to do with you btw?

270 west 1450 north Centerville
2100s 400e slc
3451s 4400w slc


I notice you do alot around taylorsville too.. hmmm strange how that works.
 
Wow! Haven't checked on this thread in a while. I like how easy it is to get some to turn a argument on a dime. I guess the rules on "how to start a argument on monstermuleys" were simple:

1. Start a new thread or make a comment
2. Wait....

www.muleybulloutfitters.com
 
Don't forget number 3

3. Kill a tiny a$$ lion and post a picture on the net

I don't know you guys but you can't blame people for giving u crap for killing that lion. If it was just for a friend that means he could have gone anytime and had a chance at a Tom. To many guys in az that kill every lion including females and they wonder why they drive all night and don't cut a track.
 
Well said AZdogman, if it's just a friend ride along they can wait for a tom lion or do without. Like I said on another post, a person should be in the tom killing business if they are a guide and not into the lion catching business. The best way to not have a client or friend kill a female is not turn out on them. There just isn't much of a reason to take a spotted kitten or female unless it's under the direction of the fish and wildlife for safety or depredation issues......
 
timothy,

What does centerville, taylorsville and slc have to do with you killing a young female lion??? if your trying to figure me out your way off but I'll give you a hint because you think your on to me. I can jump on my tractor and be to Gibsons house in a few minutes. Post up a picture, the one with your mug in it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-12 AT 09:23PM (MST)[p]

I actually figured out you live in morgan by now. I don't even think there is a photo with me in it. If you have it go ahead and post it up. I can tell ya I didn't want to see that female go, I wanted to train on her. But like I also already said, my father in law makes those decisions. He especially isn't going to let a lion live that has fed in livestock. And what your doing doesn't bother me, if you have a problem with me we can talk about it in person. Make sure you bring your big boy pants.
 

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