locating elk with planes

K

kidneystone

Guest
I know of an individual that flies his plane and locates bull elk above his ranch in the hills. He then, on the same day, lands and hikes to the elk. He has killed several this way. He has also located elk this way for other people. Is this illegal in Idaho? I don't believe he actually makes radio contact with the people on the ground.

If this is illegal I'm going to let the authorities know.
 
Check with G&F, but I dont believe it is illegal as long as a radio is not used to contact hunters on the ground. Its just a damn spendy way to "scout" for animals.

Mike
at235.gif
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-03 AT 07:00PM (MST)[p]dont know about illegal but it sure is cheezy and lazy and only a worthless biotch would hunt like that.

FYI, if he locates them you can bet your eye teeth that he is contacting people on the ground about their (elk) location.
 
It's a very good way to find elk but in alot of, (most) I think, states you can't hunt within 24 hours of flying. Check the regulations on flying the same day. Gary
 
I wouldnt exactly call it fair chase even if you wait 24 hours to hunt after you fly. It should be outlawed everywhere.. I would call the G&F in your area.

later, MM
 
The only thing that is says in the regs is "It is unlawful to use aircraft to locate game and communicate location to persons on the ground, or to use any helicopter to transport hunters, gear, or game except at established landing fields". To see the antlers very well he would have to be flying pretty low and I believe there is a min elevation that you must stay above while flying.
If you think that he is doing something illegal talk to someone from the F&G or call the citizens against poaching hotline at 1-800-632-5999.
 
Scouting is scouting. Why is this guys way more unethicle than a guy who uses a horse to cover more ground? what about using an ATV? If you guys think this is wrong then none of you should ever use a horse ,truck, or ATV or a guide service to get closer to game to save scouting time.
Now on the other hand if he is breaking a law of some kind then it is wrong, but lets not have envy just because he has a pilots ticket and has a one up on a scouting method that you dont. I dont own a horse,and you dont see me saying that any scouting that is not done on foot is unfair because horses can go 4 times farther in one day.
Check and see if there is a law that states that you cannot hunt the same day you fly, and turn him in if he is doing so illegal. I dont see a problem with it as long as he is keeping his scouting to himself and not radioing locations. I dont think he should be hunting the same day though.
 
Couldnt have said it better myself schmalts. This goes back to the old ethics versus legal debate.

Mike
at235.gif
 
How in the world is scouting with a truck , atv, or horses the same as scouting with an airplane????. That isn't even logical to me....I don't know if it's legal but I would sure as heck put a call into the Idaho state game department and ask...
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-03 AT 10:40AM (MST)[p]> How in the world is
>scouting with a truck ,
>atv, or horses the same
>as scouting with an airplane????.
>That isn't even logical to
>me....I don't know if it's
>legal but I would sure
>as heck put a call
>into the Idaho state game
>department and ask...

O.k, explain to me why an airplane for scouting is so god awful and an ATV or truck isnt? I think its just because you dont have means to use one yourself and now you think its so unfair. Where do you draw the line?? I say let the laws and rules draw the line and take what they give you for rules to decide whats fair and ethicle. I tell you one thing, an airplane isnt rutting up the mountainside like ATV's will!!
And dont let me ever see you looking at a satellight image or a topo map for god sake!! that would give you scouting info and a birds eye view without ever setting foot on the dirt too! Get real and stop being so pissed you dont have a pilots ticket yourself.
 
I don't have a problem with him scouting from a plane but if he is flying low to the ground and messing it up for other hunters or using a radio to tell friends were the elk are then he isn't being very ethical.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-03 AT 11:11AM (MST)[p]how is scouting from a plane different than scouting from an atv or truck? my god man did you just fall of a banana boat? if you don't know the difference may God help you get a clue.

Most sensible people dont envy rich a-holes who have to cheat and take shortcuts like flying to locate game. Hell since they are able to get a coveted pilots license how bout we allow them to shoot them as well? . Lazy bastards is all they amount to in my opinion.

Getting out and glassing, walking, then hopefully locating game is what hunting is all about.
 
If you are in an unpopulated area you are allowed to be 500 ft above ground level. If you are in populated areas you are allowed 1000 ft above ground.
 
I don't think the original post was about scouting with a plane, but it was about locating an animal with a plane, landing it, then shooting the animal the same day. Scout all you want with a plane, truck, quad, horse, but do not use any one to locate and shoot animals during hunting seasons. This illegal in most states as it should be.
 
Just read the Colorado Regs

Here's what's legal in Colorado

Page 8 #6
"It is illegal to use aircraft to hunt, direct hunters on the ground, or to hunt the same day or the day after a flight was made to locate wildlife".

Don't know about Idaho

BeanMan
 
>LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-03
>AT 11:11?AM (MST)
>
>how is scouting from a plane
>different than scouting from an
>atv or truck? my god
>man did you just fall
>of a banana boat? if
>you don't know the difference
>may God help you get
>a clue.
>
>
>
>Getting out and glassing, walking, then
>hopefully locating game is what
>hunting is all about.

Your so smart tell us whats so bad about one method and why an ATV is so ethicle? Dont be a #####, were not idiots,we all know its not the same but explain what makes one more ethicle than the other, or are you just pissed you dont have a pilots ticket? And Mr know it all, you dont need to be rich to get a pilots liscense, just a brain and some ambition. I know a guy who makes less than 30K a year that has one but a small minded person like you will automaticly lable him a rich snob from the way you talk.
Get over it, when you say its not right to use your truck,ATV, horse, rickshaw,pogo stick, whatever to get into the mountains further then you will be talking with some reasoning worth listening to. but you havent done that yet.
And yes this topic has changed from one question of unlamfullness to ethics but they are both implied in the main topic.
 
I'll try but if you don't understand my comment (which you repeated for some unknown reason). I doubt you understand my reasoning!!!!. First of all why do people like you get so defensive???. Are you flying airplanes and spotting game??. I agree let the law decide..ATV'S aren't the enemy. If used LEGALLY they are an excellant tool for hunting. Have you ever seen what a pack train does to trail used over and over???. Satellight image??. Topo maps??. Great analogy!!. They are ALL legal. I would like to talk to the hunter who spotted a 400 class bull with a Sateillight image or topo map....I'm not even mad!!!. Just conversing... Again Kidney, If you have any doubts about this persons actions just call the game department...
 
schmalts, I tell you why a airplane is a lot diffrent that useing a atv or a truck. It is totally unfair to the animals. It is being a lazy cheat. WHO cannot see the diffrence b/w a horse and a airplane? No I dont envy a guy with a pilots license that goes to the air for game, I despise him and his crew that will be hunting the game located by a plane. How can people who fly for game call themselves a hunter? Hell you might as well be bating the animals. Does anyone have any respect for animals anymore is what i'm wondering. I bet this will be outlawed totally soon.

later, MM
 
Here is what Wyoming has to say about the use of airplanes.

"USE OF AIRCRAFT,AUTOMOBILES,MOTORIZED AND SNOW VEHICLES AND ARTIFICIAL LIGHT FOR HUNTING OR FISHING ARE PROHIBITED; EXCEPTION. No person shall harass,pursue,hunt,shoot,or kill any Wyoming wildlife except predatory animals with,from, or by use of any aircraft, automotive vehicle, trailer, motor-propelled wheeled vehicle, or vehicle designed for travel over snow. NO PERSON SHALL USE ANY AIRCRAFT, TO AID IN THE TAKING OF ANY WYOMING WILDLIFE, EXCEPT PREDATORY ANIMALS, WHETHER BY SPOTTING OR LOCATING THE WILDLIFE, COMMUNICTING WITH ANY PERSON ATTEMPTING TO TAKE THE WILDLIFE, OR BY PROVIDING OTHER AID TO ANY PERSON TAKING THE WILDLIFE. NOTHING IN THIS SUBSECTION SHALL APPLY TO THE USE OF AIRCRAFT BY GOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES, THEIR EMPLOYEES,CONTRACTORS OR DESIGNEES PERFORMING ANY LAWFUL DUTIES."

So it pretty much looks to me like it is completely out of the question here in Wyoming to use aircraft. But in states that allow it LEGALLY then it goes back to an ethical question.

Kidney if I were you I would glean your states regulations or call the G&F to find out if indeed this practice is legal or not, if it is not legal then try to provide proof that this individual was in fact doing this activity and turn him in. If it is legal then lump it or try to get the change made.


schmalts,

I think I understand your position completely, if it is infact legal then there isnt anything to whine about. It is no different than using an ATV to scout with in my mind (once again, assuming everything is legal). You hear the same complaints every year, so and so gets up at 330 am to hike into his favorite spot only to have Joe Blow sleep till 6 am and buzz in on his ATV and reach the spot ahead of the first guy.


Mike
at235.gif
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-03 AT 01:43PM (MST)[p]
First off, since you seem to want my opinion on this rather than just my question of comparison, I think ATV's should be banned from public land use . Second I dont think using a plane to find game is ethicle.I do not see anything wrong with scouting from one if one has the means to do so. Flying and pursueing game the same day is bull, and should be illigal if its not.
As far as name calling goes, it gets me when someone gets pissed just because he feels someone has an advantage and goes off without actually answering the question asked. Its pretty much the case here i think. My case in point was scouting from a plane is an advantage no doferent than using any motor vehicle.
Lets talk about name calling, but lets get the fact straight about who copped a defensive attitude. Until these qoutes were spewed i was looking for intelligent conversation with only an explaination to a simple question about what defines ethical scouting. I in no way am defending this guy but wanted to bring up a question. Heres a few quotes {only a worthless biotch would hunt like that}{Lazy bastards is all they amount to in my opinion} and lets not forget{rich a-holes who have to}
So lets go back and read from the begining about my original and still the same question, and have some intelligent conversation about what defines ethicle scouting. And lets point the finger at everyone name calling.
Nanny nanny goo goo, he started it . Oh i bet this will cause a stir too because there is quotes now to bring into this, everyone seems to like the last word.
And yes, i like to get you guys wound up, its soooo easy, i am sitting here laughing.
So, back to the question, whats the difference between scouting with a plane VS any other motor vehicle that make sit unethicle? And no "its a big difference" and "its not even the same thing" count as an answer because you didnt explain why.
Muley Mag, You are not clear here with me. Are you talking scouting or hunting with a plane? If your talking scouting whats the difference? If your talking hunting(if you can even call it that) were on the same page.
Dakota, Thanks for being one of the only ones that read my post in depth.
 
What do you think about flying over your hunting area a month or two before your elk season starts so you can see the terrain and look for good areas to hunt. I have seen spots that look real good on a map and when you get the spot it sucks.
 
I hope no one is calling us pilots lazy cheats, if so you can kiss my white fuzzy @$$. I worked damn hard to become a commercial pilot and there is nothing like flying over the mts.
 
Craig, I don't see anything wrong with flying over an area before a hunt to see the terrain. My wife had a friend of hers take me for a plane ride a couple years ago for our wedding anniv. present. He teaches lessons and flies search and rescue. We went out through the Superstitions and then he flew down to show me what they do when searching for someone. We were still at least a couple thousand feet up and I could see everything clear as could be. You wouldn't miss any game at that altitude.
 
I stand by that quote "only a worthless biotch would hunt like that >>> fly, locate and animal land then go the the spot that animal was at and kill it"

You schmalts implied that those who didnt have pilots license have some sort of penis envy of those who do.. I could care less I admit the rich a-hole part was a bit overboard but where I live and hunt we have this rich a-hole who flies his helicopter to locate game and just last week he flew over our fields about 75 feet up and continued up the canyon for miles.
 
I agree with Schmalts, even if you spot an animal from the air and attempt to get it the same day, there is no gaurente you will be sucessful. You must still land the plane and go after it in the conventional maner we all disagree on. Horseback, foot, ATV, truck etc.
Ethicly I do not think it should happen the same day. Here in California it is illegal.
I have flown with a freind many times over hunting areas and it is not easy to spot animals from the air. The areas we hunt in northern California are very forrested. If you were persuing game in low shrubs or grasslands that would make it easier to see animals. I have spotted animals from my vehicle while driving to an area to hunt, and most times I never get a shot at that animal because they are hard to pursue in the dry brushy areas so previlant in No. Ca.
Thanks for reading my two cents worth,
Marc
 
All i got to say is I bet if as many guys who had an ATV also had a plane there would be a whole different sway of opinions on the subject.
Who decides what is fair and ethicle, for now the lawmakers like it or not. Trust me, I cant stand what the whole hunting sport has become and is still leading to. Guys like GT from USO lobby for outfitter preference to hog up a bunch of tags and shut out the poor hunter just wanting to take his son hunting.
The sad part is the ones that cry here I bet never once wrote a letter to a lawmaker, Governor, Senator, or anyone who could stand up for huntings roots of tradition. Trust me, it would help. I have spent many hours on such subjects and have won some small battles. (one being the Baca ranch AKA Valles caldera)
I wrote to many NM lawmakers and Govt agency people about the Elk lottery tags being transferable and the greedy outfitters selling them on ebay and such. Guess what, this year thats not the case. Outfitters cant buy 10,000 tickets and then sell winning tickets off for a huge profit anymore because the name on the ticket has to be the hunter. Lets see how many hunts USO will film in the caldera this year... The caldera for years has been a rich mans hunting ground and the outfitters tried to keep it that way but thats not the story now.
A little off the main topic but worth talking about.
 
> I admit
>the rich a-hole part was
>a bit overboard but where
>I live and hunt we
>have this rich a-hole who
>flies his helicopter to locate
>game and just last week
>he flew over our fields
>about 75 feet up and
>continued up the canyon for
>miles.
Was he doing anything illigal? just wondering. If he was why not report him, if he wasnt i see now why you have a problem with a guy scouting from a plane.
 
I did call ODFW and he has been reported before, called OSP and they took a report. I bet he was just flying up and down the canyon herding the animals to better feed on his property, where he leases out hunting rights yeah thats gotta be it.
 
Boy its been a while since I saw a good stirring argument on this site. I got to get my .02 worth in.

I don't have a problem with someone scouting from a plane, my brother is working on his pilots liscense. And as soon as he is rated in a plane big enough to do it, you can go to beting that we will be up there looking things over, a couple weeks before the hunt ( I said a couple weeks ). The problem I do have with this original post is that if the guy is spotting and then landing and going into the herd the same day. That I beleive is not right. But heck if you have the means to fly an area a couple weeks in advanced then why not use them. Thats just my 2 cents worth. Take it or leave it.

DeadI
images
 
WOW, I REALLY STIRRED THINGS UP. I WILL CALL F AND G AND LET YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY.

big_skelleton.gif
 
It seems the only restriction in Idaho is direct radio contact to the ground from the aircraft. No time limits, etc..
 
There is another theme to this argument that has only been touched upon. Hunting is becoming a high dollar sport. The use of helicopters and airplanes to find game epitomizes this. It is becoming more and more difficult for Joe Six-Pack to buy a tag and take the family wagon out and have a decent chance at decent game. My Aunt in Colorado told stories about how upset hunters became because all the four-wheel drive trucks were tearing up the roads and pushing the game into areas harder to get to by those who couldn't afford a four-wheel drive. Can you imagine? Now were talking about airplanes and helicopters. What's next?
 
Alot of States use airplane to hunt yotes and wolf, so are they wrong just because the rest of us use pickups and snowmobiles, IF IT ISN~T A LAW HE DID NOTHING WRONG. Poor me poor me.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-25-03 AT 09:03PM (MST)[p]Sorry gator that arugment does not hold water, predator control using helo's is done by a state F&G dept whose job it is to manage predators so they do not impact livestock and or wildlife.

Flying and locating landing then going to that area and killing in the same afternoon just reeks of illegality and immorality.
 
couldnt resist replying. where is the challenge! isn't hunting about the challenge and hard work of bagging a trophy, then celebrating by sticking meat in your freezer, and telling the story to a bunch of buddies.i can hear it now"yea i spotted that one at 30,000 ft. hell of spot" cmon legal or not it takes the hunting out of hunting. i would rather work for a fork horn than spot a monster from a plane 24 hours before the hunt and walk to the area i know he could be. for me its about being apart of the environment and when your in a plane, helicopter, ultralight, or whatever its not the same.
nk
 
Well, I guess I have to reply now. I've been waiting to see how this post ends up and now I'm tired of all the poor poor pitiful me's out there. If it's legal it's not a problem!!! We don't need anymore laws to govern us or people piping off about stuff they don't even understand. It's like a damn anti hunter against hunting....have they ever hunted? I mean have you ever flown to spot elk? I have and it aint that easy and no I didn't even hunt the same week. You can learn alot more on the ground in a couple weekends of scouting than you can from a plane in a few hours of flying. So maybe we should keep all hunters out of the mountains three weeks before season huh? Give me a break... quit whining if it's legal in your state. Gary
 
You hear the same thing about Quads, about compound bows, scope on ML, rangefinders, The list is endless people use different things that you might like or dislike, BUT if it isn't illegal then WHAT, HAWK33 Do you know alot of other people beside F&G use planes to hunt Yotes and they kill a he11 alot more of them then the F&G, (See a day in the air) photo section. Do we use a plane to scout sometimes yes do we do it the same day we hunt no,I'm betting you don't like people running deer with dogs either, but in some states that is the way they hunt. Do we use snowmobiles to hunt he11 yes we do, we kill over 80 dogs a year how many deer do you think that saves,If your waiting for the F&G to solve problems with to many coyotes you got a long wait. Have I broke the law, I'm guessing I have because I have shoot out of my pickup window at coyotes, Last year pelts was running around 14 dollars, we are hoping they do better this year.You should seen how many pheasents we have around now over 100 per mile and that alot of birds.We also hunt coons at night with dogs you don't even what to know how many of those we get a year, Will we use a plane to scout you bet, at the same time we are up shooting yotes if we see a good buck we will remeber where he was and go looking for him as soon as season opens,(see lineup of bucks) some of these bucks was seen from the air and some wasn't but they all ended up in the truck.We also look for good trapping sites, We find alot of springs from the air we didn't know about great for mink trapping since the water don't freeze.I hope your hunts are good as they can get, I know mine have been.That is my .02 cents
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-03 AT 07:15PM (MST)[p]There are some interesting views on the use of aircraft, but for any of you that have ever hunted Northern British Columbia, Yukon Territories, Northwest Territories, or Alaska, you would realize that aircraft are an important and most times the only way to get into your hunting areas in a relatively short period of time. The one limiting factor for aircraft are landing sites, just because you spot game doesn't mean you can land anywhere close to it. The other factors involved in locating game with aircraft is it can be very dangerous, you just have to look at the FAA and Transport Canada accident records for crashed Super Cubs in the northern hemisphere, and you'll get a feeling for all the different crashes that happen to bush pilots every year, (20 ? 30 crashes this year alone). If you think that the professional outfitters are not using aircraft for pre-season scouting, learning the lay of the land, aerial drops (horse pellet, camps, food, supplies ect) your fooling yourself. I guess the question is, is this ethical, because it is legal in the place named previously with some restrictions. So are all the hunter that hunt these remote places, hunting ethically? Maybe blindfolds are the answer for the pilot and the hunter when flying below a 1000AGL, or maybe the purists should just ask to walk in from the nearest road.

Where do you draw the line on technologies as aides?

Just some thoughts, Cheers Ramchaser
 
Why not?

My take on this is that I don't like any regulations that tell me how I can or cannot hunt--exceptions being safety related laws like shooting across roads etc. This is different from regulations that restrict how I can harvest (muzz, archery, 3 shell rules, min./max. calibers etc.).

I really don't see using an airplane for scouting as much different than hiring 20 scouts to scour an area--the only difference being is on method's always legal while the other typically isn't.

Shooting from an airplane for big game doesn't sit all that well with me primarily due to the unreasable amount of stress placed on them from trying to get close enough to shoot from an aircraft and potential game recovery issues.
 
The best way to scout with your plane is using napalm on the thick patches of black pines, this tends to flush most of the critters making your flights more effective, Blueoak taught me this stratigy.
The down side is that ocationally a Granola, gets cooked in the process, but I'm thinking to myself, Hell that smelly mt. homeless SOB, had no business hanging out in those thick pines in the first place.
 
Dan Dog, I'm a pilot, and YOU should look at the regs a little closer. YOU CAN USE AN AIRPLANE!!!! However there is a certain amount of time since your last flight, regardless of altitude, that mast pass before you can carry any weapon for the intention of harvesting an animal. While I do agree that some people should not open their mouths, one should not try to make such an impression of incorrect knowledge. So in short not all of us are wrong. I will post the res a little later, including the FAR's(Federal Aviation Reguklations.)
 
I DON'T THINK SO JOEMAMA, I DON'T CARE IF YOUR A PILOT IT IS CALLED THE
AIRBORNE ACT IS A FEDERAL WILDLIFE LAW AND STATES THAT IT IS UNLAWFUL TO USE ANY AIRCRAFT TO TAKE OR LOCATE ANY GAME ANIMAL PRIOR TO OR DURING A HUNTING SEASON. WHY DON'T YOU CALL THE U.S. FISH AND WILDLFE AND ASK. I ALREADY DID. IT IS A FELONY AND CARRYS A MAXIMUM ONE YEAR PRISON SENETENCE AND A $100,000 FINE.
SO YOU SHOULD CHECK YOUR REGS BEFORE OPENING YOUR MONTH. BECAUSE THIS IS NOT INCORRECT KNOWLEDGE.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-03-03 AT 07:41PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-03-03 AT 07:40?PM (MST)

ROYDOGG,

The airborne hunting act prohibits the harvesting of a game animal or game bird from an aircraft. Here is the law:

Digest of Federal Resource Laws of Interest to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Airborne Hunting Act

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Act, Public Law 92-159, approved November 18, 1971 (85 Stat. 480) and subsequently amended by P.L. 92-502, approved October 28, 1972 (86 Stat. 905) added to the Fish and Wildlife Act of 1956 a new section 13 (16 U.S.C. 742j-l), which is commonly referred to as the Airborne Hunting Act or Shooting from Aircraft Act, prohibits shooting or attempting to shoot or harrassing any bird, fish, or other animal from aircraft except for certain specified reasons, including protection of wildlife, livestock, and human life as authorized by a Federal or State issued license or permit. States authorized to issue permits are required to file reports with the Secretary of the Interior containing information on any permits issued.


Now, before you get in a huff about "harrassment" I want to assure you that anybody looking for animals is not going to harrass them if they intend to go in and hunt or photograph these particular animals. They see the animal and leave it the heck alone for fear of running it out of the country, no different that if someone had spotted it from the ground. Chute planes, ultra-lights, airplanes and helicopters have been around a long time and are used by a wide variety of people for a wide variety of reasons. Many states have laws regarding these issues and I know of no laws prohibiting people from flying over the country to "sightsee". I would love to get a chute plane to fly over country I am considering hunting to gain a firsthand knowledge of what the country looks like, if I see a deer or elk then so be it. Its a lot better, in my opinion, than a guy that takes a 4 wheeler all over the damn countryside and up and down every ridge. At least if you are up high you do no damage to the country you are scouting.

All of that being said, I am totally against someone "hunting" from an aircraft for any reason during a hunting season, I think that any scouting should be done well before a hunting season and I know that there are states such as Nevada that have laws regarding these issues.

Drummond
 
Howdy,
I know some of you don't care about Canada, some do !
Here goes...
I took this from the New British Columbia regs,

"IT IS UNLAWFUL...
22. to hunt or transport hunters or wildlife by a helicopter.
23. to hunt wildlife from an aircraft.
24. to hunt wildlife within six (6) hours of being airborne in an aircraft other than a regularly scheduled commercial aircraft.
25. to use a powerboat, aircraft, or motor vehicle or other mechanical device to disturb or harass wildlife."

I think there is a huge difference between using an aircraft to access remote areas as a means of transportation VS using the same aircraft to locate animals for the purpose of "hunting" them.
By the way, I'm just wondering how Boone & Crocket would fit this into their "Fair Chase" requirements should one harvest a Trophy classed animal in this manner ?
My two bits.

"BC" Will
 
Roydogg it says straight from the Colorado regs that it is unlawful to: use aircraft to hunt, to direct hunters on the ground or to hunt the same day or day after a flight was made to locate wildlife. So what that means to you is that it is ok to locate wildlife from a plane, you just can't hunt the same day or day after. So where are you getting your info? Is this some state specific thing because it sure doesn't apply in Alaska or Colorado I can tell you that for a fact!!! Gary
 
HEY HUNTSONORA WHY DON'T YOU TALK TO YOUR BUDDY RYAN HATCH ABOUT THIS. SINCE HE WAS CHARGED WITH 21 COUNTS OF DOING THIS VERY THING ON THE NAVAJO INDIAN RESERVATION IN 2001 BY US FISH AND WILDLIFE AND ARIZONA GAME AND FISH. I KNOW WHAT THE LAW IS AND SINCE YOU AND THE OTHERS THINK IT IS OKAY THEN I CAN ONLY ASSUME
THAT YOU ALSO DO THIS AS WELL. SINCE I SEE THAT YOU REMOVED MY RELPY ABOUT RYAN HATCH IN THE MULE DEER FORM. WHATS WRONG SON'T WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT HATCH DOSEN'T GET HIS DEER IN FAIR CHASE AND IS REALLY NOTHING MORE THAN A POACHER. THE STORY IS TRUE HIS NAME AND ALL THE CHARGES WERE PUBLISHED IN THE EASTMAN JOURNAL AND THEY HAD A 3 YEAR INVESTAGATION ON HIM FROM 1998-2001 IN WHICH HE BROKE THIS LAW THE WHOLE TIME HOW DO YOU THINK THEY OT 21 COUNTS AGAINST HIM. BUT SINCE YOU SUPPORT HES MAGAZINE AND VIDEO'S YOU THINK IT'S ALRIGHT. WHYDON'T YOU REFER THE ORIGINAL POSTED QUESTION THAT THE GUY WHO POSTEDIT KNOW SOMEONE IN IDAHO WHO USES HIS PLANE TO LOCATE BULL ELK THEN HE LANDS IT AND GOESAFTER THEM ANDHAS KILLED SEVERAL THIS WAY. (THIS IS ILLEGALL) IN ALL THE STATES. YOU CAN USE AN AIRCRAFT TO REACH A HUNTING AREA BUT CAN NOT HUNT THE DAY YOU FLY BUT, IT IS NOT LEGAL TO USE THEM TO LOCATE GAME PRIOR TO OR DURING AND HUNTING SEASON PER U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE. WHY DON'T YOU CONTACT ANY FISH AND GAME AND TELL THEM YOU INTEND TO DO THIS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO SAY ON THE SUBJECT IF YOU THINK THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH IT I DON'T REALLY CARE. I'M SURE YOU WILL REMOVE THIS REPLY AS WELL SINCE IT AGAIN BRING UP YOUR BUUBY RYAB HATCH THEY ILLEGAL BASTARD.
 
ELKCRZY1 THAT IS THE ORIGINAL QUESTION BEING ASKED THE GUY WHO POSTED THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE KNOWS WHO IS USING A PLANE TO LOCATE ELK THEN LANDING AND GOING IN AFTER THEM. THE GUYSAYS HE HAS TAKE SEVERAL THIS WAY. THIS IS ILLEGAL UNDER THE AIRBORNE ACT. THERE WAS NEVER A QUESTION OF USING A PLANE TO GET TO A HUNTING AREA. HUNTSONORA IS THE ONE WHO IS MAKEING THE BIG DEAL OF IT BEING OKAY. IN MY OPINION IT IS NOT ETHICAL TO USE THEM TO LOCATE GAME IN AN AREA YOU PLAN TO HUNT AT ANY TIME. BUT TO EACH HIS OWN.
 
BCWILL THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING AS WELL, USING A PLANE TO
ACCESS A REMOTE AREA IS ONE THING BUT USING THEM TO LOCATE GAME YOU INTEND TO HUNT IS NOT ONLY ILLEGAL BUT UNETHICAL.
THE ORIGINAL QUESTION IS ASKING JUST THIS. HE KNOWS SOMEONE WHO IS USING AN AIRPLANE TO LOCATE ELK THEN LAND AND GOES AFTER THEM AND HAS KILLED SEVERAL THIS WAY AND ALSO DOES IT FOR HIS FRIENDS. THIS IS A VIOLATION OFTHE AIRBORNE ACT. BUT HUNTSONORA THINKS THIS ISJUST FINE AND THAT IT IS NOT ILLEGAL. HE THINKS AS LONG AS YOU DON'T SHOOT FROM THE PLANE THAT THERE IS NO HARMIN THIS. THANKS FOR YOUR TWO CENTS.
 
Quote from ROYDOGG:

"I DON'T THINK SO JOEMAMA, I DON'T CARE IF YOUR A PILOT IT IS CALLED THE
AIRBORNE ACT IS A FEDERAL WILDLIFE LAW AND STATES THAT IT IS UNLAWFUL TO USE ANY AIRCRAFT TO TAKE OR LOCATE ANY GAME ANIMAL PRIOR TO OR DURING A HUNTING SEASON. WHY DON'T YOU CALL THE U.S. FISH AND WILDLFE AND ASK. I ALREADY DID. IT IS A FELONY AND CARRYS A MAXIMUM ONE YEAR PRISON SENETENCE AND A $100,000 FINE.
SO YOU SHOULD CHECK YOUR REGS BEFORE OPENING YOUR MONTH. BECAUSE THIS IS NOT INCORRECT KNOWLEDGE."

The Law as written:

Airborne Hunting Act
This Act, Public Law 92-159, approved November 18, 1971 (85 Stat. 480) and subsequently amended by P.L. 92-502, approved October 28, 1972 (86 Stat. 905) added to the Fish and Wildlife Act of 1956 a new section 13 (16 U.S.C. 742j-l), which is commonly referred to as the Airborne Hunting Act or Shooting from Aircraft Act, prohibits shooting or attempting to shoot or harrassing any bird, fish, or other animal from aircraft except for certain specified reasons, including protection of wildlife, livestock, and human life as authorized by a Federal or State issued license or permit. States authorized to issue permits are required to file reports with the Secretary of the Interior containing information on any permits issued.

ROYDOGG,

Where does it say that I cant fly over an area and look at the country? In Alaska is it illegal to look down if you are flying to a camp? I dont think so! If you would go back and read my WHOLE post you will see this quote at the end: "All of that being said, I am totally against someone "hunting" from an aircraft for any reason during a hunting season, I think that any scouting should be done well before a hunting season and I know that there are states such as Nevada that have laws regarding these issues." If I am not mistaken the law in Nevada states that you are not allowed to fly in a unit within 48 hours of a hunting season. It is something to that effect. You said in your original reply that it was "illegal to take or locate any game animal prior to or during the hunting season" The fact of the matter is, you can interpret this any way you like but it says NOTHING about flying over an area to look at the country and I would say that most people that own chute planes have them to do just that, hunters and non-hunters alike. Would it be illegal for a hunter but not a non-hunter? NO! ROYDOGG, It is what it is man and you are out of your mind if you think that flying over an area to gain a knowledge of the country is illegal. I do not own a plane but have no problem with someone using them to their advantage well before a hunting season as long as they do not "harrass" the game. I would rather a serious hunter do his homework and kill an older age class deer or elk than put no time into it and harvest an extremely young deer or elk. As for Ryan Hatch, the issue has been beat to death on here and we choose to try and keep a positive forum for all users. I see that you are new here so I know you did not know.

As for the ORIGINAL question, if a guy is using a plane to "round up" elk or flying around radioing "hunters" on the ground then turn him in. If he is flying and hunting in the same day then turn him in. If it is illegal then turn him in!!!

Drummond Lindsey
 
WHEN MY CAP LOCK BUTTON QUITS WORKING I KNOW TEMPERS ARE ABOUT TO FLARE!!!

I HAVE TO START LOOKING TO SEE WHO IS USING MY CAP LOCK!!!

I'VE GOT ONE QUESTION!!!

IS IT LEGAL TO FLY A PLANE DURING SEASON AND ONLY SHOOT ASSHOLES ON THEIR ATV'S IN CLOSED AREA'S AND ON THE PRIMITIVE???

OH,I FORGOT,SOME OF THEM THINK IT'S THEIR RIGHT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING:A PLANE MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA!!!
 
I believe that every one is on agreement here, the Airborne Act is exactly that, hunting while airborne. What is the definition or description of hunting? I would think that you would have to possess a weapon of some sort, and be using it in an act of attempting to kill something. The big difference here is the definitions between hunting, and scouting or locating from aircraft, two very different objectives.

So just remember to keep one foot planted at all times while hunting, that means NO JUMPING, or you maybe hunting illegally under the Airborne Act.

Cheers, Ramchaser
 
Thank you huntsanora. ROYDOG there is a big difference between looking at animals from a plane and shooting them. READ THE REG. Ryan was prosecuted because he wasn't allowing enough time to pass between flying and carrying a firearm or guiding. The reg does state that you can't shoot or harass from the plane but it doesn't state anything about LOOOOOOOKING. That is what spotting is right? Although we all have different ideas about ethics lawa are laws whether we like them or not.
 
Just to add. I don't personally scout from my plane during hunting season but I do fly, job requires it so does my license currency. However I am real careful to not hunt right after a flight.
 
Thanks huntsonora and joemama I thought I was gonna have to explain that whole thing again!!!! Gary
 
Bobcatbess,

I like the way you think. Your posts crack me up man! Anyways, my quick 2. Hell no to planes for scouting! If someone wants ta go for a joy ride or pure scenic flight with there friends or even fly over some of their "private prop." and maybe get lucky seeing some animals during summer while doing it sure, as long as they don't harass em'. Fly over & leave em alone.
But once land owners fly around innocently a few times it isn't long before they tell their old time friend who only has two days to hunt that he will make an exception and they can just track a bull down in the plane over a cocktail and a cigar. You might as well call yourself a killer. Or just go into town, get yourself a rib-eye from the store, and someone elses trophy bull mount from the local taxidermist, then go tell all your pals back home you shot it. Just don't call it hunting please, what a discrase that would be. Gettin' a feel for the topo. of your new private property, sure. Using a plane specifically to learn the lay of PUBLIC land and animal locale, no way in hell. And definitely not to find game anytime before or during hunting season. I just think those people need to hunt, not cheat. Does anyone have a dictionary on em'. Seems clear to me anyways.

Huntsalone (cause I couldn't get anyone out of the plane)
 
After reading the posts here, it's my opinion that ROYDOG's comments were nothing more than an opportunity to make an adhoc
attack on Ryan Hatch. His flamming of Drummond Lindsay for pulling down a post on a thread about Hatch indicates that his true intent was to fire off a salvo about Hatch's past and have everyone read it and make comments on it. The fact ROYDOG knows nothing about ONB, or Ryan's involvement in it, means nothing to ROYDOG. Remember, the clueless often speak volumes about matters they know little or nothing about. If ROYDOG were a poster of his convictions, and feels as stongly in the negative about Ryan Hatch as he sounds, he owes it to himself to stop in at the offices of the wildly successful "Muley Crazy Magazine" and share his thoughts with Ryan himself.

The "ACT", as posted by Drummond, is quite self-explanatory and doesn't require commentary from ROYDOG about its' nuances.
I much more enjoy the MonsterMuleys website since the editorial decision was made to more closely monitor the aggressive personal attacks on specific individuals and then delete those that were clearly "the politics of personal destruction". Kudos Mr. Lindsay for your work as a moderator. As for ROYDOG....please deactivate your Caps Lock, you're screaming at us and it's tough to understand what the heck you're saying!

AZBuckSnort
Jim Rich
Mohave Valley, AZ
 
Thank You, AzBuckSnort. That was probably the most sane reply on this topic.

huntntrap
 
It seems the only restriction in Idaho is direct radio contact to the ground from the aircraft. No time limits, etc..
 
yes its illegal. you must wait for 24 hours in idaho also. turn him in or have him call me so he can find them in my area,HA!
 

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