Lock Them Both Up

bullskin

bullskin

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The problem with Trump's claim that he declassified the Mar a Lago docs is that such action would make them available as unclassified information to anyone who wanted them. Anyone--American, Chinese or Russian--could ask for and receive them all. Our own government would then have to offer them up, free of charge.

Did he really just turn over top secret intelligence to the entire world? Is that what he and his supporters are defending? This would be an even bigger mistake than "just" taking liberties with classified information in his unofficial capacity.

Hillary's mistake cost her the election--as it should have. And no one should ever advocate for her return to public stewardship. The same is true for Trump. Put them both in prison. In the same cell. Twenty years of incessant blather by either is worse than death by electric chair.
 
Bullskin, you believe that he declassified secrets (nuclear, codes, etc.) and that will be available to everybody? Or is it more likely that he declassified the Russia collusion BS, as he did, and has a copy and since it's not out yet, they can seize them and smear and slam him with well-placed leaks and drag this out in the media and court of public opinion?

DOJ has slow-rolled the declassification since he issued the memo in the waning days of his administration. They'll drag this out like they did the Russia collusion accusation that ended with a big, fat nothing, but again, didn't get cleared until years later.

To each his own, I guess.
 
Bullskin stop and think about a few things. We've known how to build the bomb since 1945. Russia has had nuclear weapons for decades along with more than a few other countries. Now since it's a matter of public record the nuclear launch codes get changed when an administration changes, so that rules out the nuclear secrets BS. The president has no power to do anything at that point. That stuff is well secured and only the unknowing would buy the hype. It takes more than 1 person to launce any nuclear strike.

Having worked in the weapons business building things that required security clearance to go near and knowing various phases of their development were compartmentalized to actually protect the technologies many forms, from being disclosed to protect it makes this seem a bit unlikely. The parts are each developed by people that work on only a single phase of the weapons many parts. To further complicate things many parts are farmed out to numerous companies to build that part. So the odds are they only know information on a single part or sub assmbly in the whole weapon. See how the system has built in safeguards to protect it. This is simplified but in reality it's more complex.

Besides since the President has the highest security clearance in the country and the ability to declassify ANY docs they issued in his administration it's further complicated by the fact they lack the knowledge to be able to discern what they are let alone how they work.

Now there's other secrets on diplomacy and on other fronts that are handled when he's president and lest not we forget the dems CLASSIFIED anything they didn't want the public to know about what they did ALL the Russian collusion mess and all the other alleged scandals.

Contrary to Obama and Clinton who actually ran shredders and wiped servers and destroyed documents to protect themselves from investigation.

Trump for the most part actually gave them what they wanted and that's why they never could prove he consorted with the enemy even with wiretaps and trying to entrap him during his entire presidency. He's easy to hate but even with them using the FBI and DOJ to falsefy documents they couldn't find enough proof to remove him from office.

Since it's the FBI's normal procedure not to release evidence on an ongoing investigation doesn't that picture really look more like a staged photo op, especially using the cover of the magazine showing all the dems looking at Trump thru the window. LOL

Then think about this the CIC knows full well the penalty for treason so why would he ruin his family when he was out of office. He clearly doesn't need the money and with all the investigations going on with hundreds of investigators combing through every detail they still haven't managed to produce the proof! We know others took the money and they hid the facts from you.

Trump is a lout in many regards but he took the job without pay, but his tweets didn't endear him to anyone. He's his own worst enemy but NO person on earth could under go that level of scrutiny and come out scott free.

Yes he lied but Washington encourages that and ALL of those that brought false witness against him notably told hundreds of lies on a daily basis cumulatively. He didn't incite an insurrection but he was guilty of inciting a crowd which the dems do daily if they think it'll buy them some votes.

The election lies are still suspect but truth be known they allowed the election to be conducted in an illegal manner in some states which caused some issues in the process.

If Trumps guilty throw the book at him but given the history of false charges and rhetoric that 's still being deployed against him, I'D bet the guys making the charges and using their media machine to hype it up have way more to lose if the truth ever comes out.

All those elected officials and media mouth pieces would be looking for work and where could they lead us then? Food for thought but misdirection is part of this little game and has been for years now!
 
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I saw that staged photo on the hideous carpet in Mar a Lago. If you flip the photo over and view it while wearing 3D Polarized I-Max movie glasses while watching The Wizard of Oz and playing Stairway to Heaven in reverse at 33 1/3 RPM. You can clearly see the receipt: Sold to Vlad for 1 million dollars. Lock him up
 
bullskin said:
The problem with Trump's claim that he declassified the Mar a Lago docs is that such action would make them available as unclassified information to anyone who wanted them. Anyone--American, Chinese or Russian--could ask for and receive them all. Our own government would then have to offer them up, free of charge.

Did he really just turn over top secret intelligence to the entire world? Is that what he and his supporters are defending? This would be an even bigger mistake than "just" taking liberties with classified information in his unofficial capacity.

Hillary's mistake cost her the election--as it should have. And no one should ever advocate for her return to public stewardship. The same is true for Trump. Put them both in prison. In the same cell. Twenty years of incessant blather by either is worse than death by electric chair.
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Hillarys crap meant dudes died, including an ambassador who were their running guns into Syria. Also meant Putin controlled American Uranium.

Trump's, most likely, contained "Russia, Russia, Russia" docs.

If you're going to play moral equivalency, let's at least be honest.
 
Bullskin in all fairness to you, you're falling for some cub reporters wet dream. Imagine scooping the story on finally getting Trump.......oh the fake pulitzers one could garner in that exercise and the prestige on a leaked pic (jeopardizing their whole case). Look at how many won them for the fake Russian Collusion Hoax and where did that factual reporting wind up.
 
Boskee said:
Bullskin stop and think about a few things. We've known how to build the bomb since 1945. Russia has had nuclear weapons for decades along with more than a few other countries. Now since it's a matter of public record the nuclear launch codes get changed when an administration changes, so that rules out the nuclear secrets BS. The president has no power to do anything at that point. That stuff is well secured and only the unknowing would buy the hype. It takes more than 1 person to launce any nuclear strike.

Having worked in the weapons business building things that required security clearance to go near and knowing various phases of their development were compartmentalized to actually protect the technologies many forms, from being disclosed to protect it makes this seem a bit unlikely. The parts are each developed by people that work on only a single phase of the weapons many parts. To further complicate things many parts are farmed out to numerous companies to build that part. So the odds are they only know information on a single part or sub assmbly in the whole weapon. See how the system has built in safeguards to protect it. This is simplified but in reality it's more complex.

Besides since the President has the highest security clearance in the country and the ability to declassify ANY docs they issued in his administration it's further complicated by the fact they lack the knowledge to be able to discern what they are let alone how they work.

Now there's other secrets on diplomacy and on other fronts that are handled when he's president and lest not we forget the dems CLASSIFIED anything they didn't want the public to know about what they did ALL the Russian collusion mess and all the other alleged scandals.

Contrary to Obama and Clinton who actually ran shredders and wiped servers and destroyed documents to protect themselves from investigation.

Trump for the most part actually gave them what they wanted and that's why they never could prove he consorted with the enemy even with wiretaps and trying to entrap him during his entire presidency. He's easy to hate but even with them using the FBI and DOJ to falsefy documents they couldn't find enough proof to remove him from office.

Since it's the FBI's normal procedure not to release evidence on an ongoing investigation doesn't that picture really look more like a staged photo op, especially using the cover of the magazine showing all the dems looking at Trump thru the window. LOL

Then think about this the CIC knows full well the penalty for treason so why would he ruin his family when he was out of office. He clearly doesn't need the money and with all the investigations going on with hundreds of investigators combing through every detail they still haven't managed to produce the proof! We know others took the money and they hid the facts from you.

Trump is a lout in many regards but he took the job without pay, but his tweets didn't endear him to anyone. He's his own worst enemy but NO person on earth could under go that level of scrutiny and come out scott free.

Yes he lied but Washington encourages that and ALL of those that brought false witness against him notably told hundreds of lies on a daily basis cumulatively. He didn't incite an insurrection but he was guilty of inciting a crowd which the dems do daily if they think it'll buy them some votes.

The election lies are still suspect but truth be known they allowed the election to be conducted in an illegal manner in some states which caused some issues in the process.

If Trumps guilty throw the book at him but given the history of false charges and rhetoric that 's still being deployed against him, I'D bet the guys making the charges and using their media machine to hype it up have way more to lose if the truth ever comes out.

All those elected officials and media mouth pieces would be looking for work and where could they lead us then? Food for thought but misdirection is part of this little game and has been for years now!
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You are correct about dirty tricks. Dems tried to derail Trump, Republicans led by Trump tried to derail Obama. And partisans on both sides care little about principle and only protest when their own interests are wronged. Some use one bad act to excuse another, complaining that they are lied to, yet simultaneously make excuses to avoid any investigation--even non-partisan investigations--of their own team.

Without analyzing every bad action perpetrated by both parties to see who has been most wronged in the past and therefore most deserving of screwing over the American public today, I am content to hold both sides accountable.

If, indeed, Mr. Trump holds only harmless information as you and Snoopdogg have suggested, and given that he contends these docs have been declassified, then why doesn't he simply release them? He is under no obligation to protect unclassified information that cannot harm the interests of this country and which can defend his own.

There are two possible answers. Either this information is potentially damaging to national security, in which case releasing it would reveal just how irresponsible has been his failure to obey the law, or he understands that these documents are not, actually, declassified, as he has claimed.

Regardless, I trust my local law enforcement more than I trust the lying druggie on the street corner. And I trust Federal law enforcement over lying politicians brought to me by those who dismiss the need for integrity.
 
Boskee said:
Bullskin in all fairness to you, you're falling for some cub reporters wet dream. Imagine scooping the story on finally getting Trump.......oh the fake pulitzers one could garner in that exercise and the prestige on a leaked pic (jeopardizing their whole case). Look at how many won them for the fake Russian Collusion Hoax and where did that factual reporting wind up.
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If you are correct, then all he needs to do is release this "unclassified and harmless" information to prove your point. He could legally have done so. If there was really nothing there capable of threatening national security, then he could have put an end to this nonsense weeks ago and fatally damaged the very Dems and Media that you accuse of misbehavior. I suspect he did not because it would make him look even more irresponsible than he already does for failing to protect it properly.
 
Bullskin have you ever stopped and gave this a thought. Just maybe those documents that Trump has would shed alot of dirt on certain politicians and others and he knows if he released them he would never see them again and neither would the public. The shredding machine would get a workout at the Whitehouse.
RELH
 
The logic of who has more to hide in the real equation seems lost in his quest for fairness, which is admirable. He wants what's right but fails to comprehend the magnitude of your point. If what really went on gets out to the American people the DEM party is completely finished. All their sordid little plans, plots, fraud, and controlling to make us socialists goes down in flames.
 
If Trump wasnt allowed to have the documents
then how in the Hades is the FBI allowed to have them?
 
bullskin said:
If you are correct, then all he needs to do is release this "unclassified and harmless" information to prove your point. He could legally have done so. If there was really nothing there capable of threatening national security, then he could have put an end to this nonsense weeks ago and fatally damaged the very Dems and Media that you accuse of misbehavior. I suspect he did not because it would make him look even more irresponsible than he already does for failing to protect it properly.
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He's entitled to have classifed information. He has the highest security clearance in the nation, like all presidents. He has the power to declassify information. He did that and they wouldn't release it several times. WHY? They were ordered to do it? Which side in this mess has more players on the ground? Which side went to great lengths to sabotage his presidency for the entire term? Where the FBI & DOJ complicit in it? Who has more players to control the game?

Now think about this......how does he get the information released when they're controlling the media? You didn't hear about what they did for a reason. They put the lid on the whole damn Russian collusion mess and investigated him with some of the major conspirators in the fiasco. Some of the same guys that helped frame him! Think about that.

It's a sordid game and while both sides are at fault in some regards.......one side completely collapses if the facts get revealed. There was a reason why they didn't follow proper legal procedure because under cross examination they would have been exposed.

There weren't any real public hearings conducted letting the public hear damaging questioning it was all classified.

That's why it was all done the way it was so they could control it and classify the hell out of anything they wanted hidden.

The most obvious tell in the whole damn mess is they couldn't remove him from office and they're still trying to keep him from running to save their sorry azzez.

He DIDN'T pack a single box and an inventory of what was taken was archived by governmental staff and it all was moved to where he wanted it. Hell conversely they could have planted evidence framing him again. He wasn't sitting ther monitoring it. It's not like he rented and packed a damn uhaul and drove to Mir A Lago.

Now 2 years later it's an issue..... really...come on Bullskin you're not that naive. It was a political move to try to damage him and has been all along and the never ending saga is what they're using for part of their cover. He's playing the game because he's getting more press and the dems are looking more like damaged goods every day. If he gets elected where do they hide then?:eek: How do they stop him from releasing the information then.......it's checkmate and they all know it.
 
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notice a very familiar but tired old worn out theme here? It's the drip........drip....drip......drip....of information. By Garlands own admission they reviewed the doc's so what's the hold up?

It would appear we have a mexican stand off here.....They arrest him and he gets a public trial and then he gets his say on the matter and cross examination by his lawyers in a real court of law ( he's a private citizen now).

Trumps legal team and some members of the GOP are salivating for this. The election is an issue but Trumps team will go for a change in venue to tie the swamps hands. In fact some judge may decide we're going to put an end to this crap once and for all. Gee one could only wonder how much information his side could reveal... and how much could be divulged..... so the real jokes on them.....

My guess is this will never see the inside of a courtroom. They may get him on something else but this was one of the dumbest political moves in history. The only clear and present danger to our nation is being perpetuated by these morons.

right Buzzy:ROFLMAO:
 
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EVILNR said:
The Loonies (D) will drag this out as long as possible,,,like they have Covid.
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And why wouldn’t they? They’re playing to win.

I mean, wouldn’t it be different if trump had used all this incriminating evidence like a competent leader would instead of playing the sad clown all the time? On your dime :ROFLMAO:

Open the peekers and see it for what it is, not what you wish it was.
 
Snoopdogg said:
Bullskin, you believe that he declassified secrets (nuclear, codes, etc.) and that will be available to everybody?
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No. I believe he is lying. He is struggling to defend his idiotic behavior, and that these materials remain classified. That said, I do not doubt that these secrets have been jeopardized as a result of his action, and would not be surprised if they have been viewed by those without clearance.

Snoopdogg said:
DOJ has slow-rolled the declassification since he issued the memo in the waning days of his administration.
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Would you prefer that the DOJ expedite their declassification so that they become known to the world? Of course, the very suggestion that the DOJ must declassify these docs belies Trump's assertion that he has already done so.
 
Boskee said:
He's entitled to have classifed information. He has the highest security clearance in the nation, like all presidents.
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Unbelievable. He is not the President and so has no business holding top secret information. This is not my opinion--it is the law. He has no security clearance--for obvious reasons.

But he did when he removed these docs from their secure facility where they instead wound up in some random box in a UHaul. That you would defend this behavior only demonstrates your inability to analyze this situation objectively. It cannot be justified by pointing to the mistakes of others. This is just another sad case of Deranged Trump Syndrome.
 
bullskin said:
Unbelievable. He is not the President and so has no business holding top secret information. This is not my opinion--it is the law. He has no security clearance--for obvious reasons.

But he did when he removed these docs from their secure facility where they instead wound up in some random box in a UHaul. That you would defend this behavior only demonstrates your inability to analyze this situation objectively. It cannot be justified by pointing to the mistakes of others. This is just another sad case of Deranged Trump Syndrome.
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Well spoken truth..... Now time for Trumpicans to Spin and/or Deflect in 3...2..1.....
 
Bullskin, EVERY President in this nations history has examples of once classified documents in their presidential libraries OBAMA & IKE certainly does.. So it's not us that needs to wake up it's you. The fact they had the ability to declassify docs since they had the highest security clearance also seems lost on you.

Justice Gorsuch's aide on the supreme court stated this and it's fact. These guys aren't prone to not knowing the law for a reason. Hmmm

So since the supreme courts aide is telling us he has the right what makes you think the same guys that lied to you every damn day for 6 years are right? Hint he has a higher security clearance than they do or the agents that picked up the docs who don't have that level of clearance. Now that doesn't make Trump any less detestible but when the guys that committed fraud are telling you he's guilty you may want to rethink your logic.

He didn't break any laws before and they sure don't want him revealing to what extent they did and how they DUPED us has to have some credibility.

Besides many of us stated if Trump broke the law prosecute him.......yet here we are with a man, they're searching for a crime, to charge him with......what happened to innocent until proven guilty? They're already trying him in the court of public opinion.....by the same guys that actually broke the law.

Gee aren't political crimes in socialist countries done using the same boiler plate. Yes he's kryptonite in many ways but when we go down this path voiding peoples rights in this manner, what's to stop them from going after other enemies of the state like Biden mentioned.........political prisoners don't get fair trials......

The principles this nation were founded upon are in a very tenuous position right now and if were not charging street criminals avoiding our laws in many cities, placing the public in danger.......it might be time to open your eyes to let the real light in.

So if they find nothing...... When, where, and how are they going to proclaim his innocence, because frankly they never did in all their previous failed attempts?

Even if you hate him reflect on that because when they take him down (if using illegal means), sacrificng dozens of pawns (others with different views) like Mike Flynn, is childs play in the big game.
 
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Planning for what to do when trump is vindicated………that is comedy gold. :ROFLMAO:

He’s done. Time to wipe the turd off the shoe and get on with things.
 
While he may be politically (time will tell), and I agree he may not be the best choice to try to heal this country, we still need to work within the legal process. When we cast that aside and start sanctioning going around the rules in the end we the people lose control and the ruling class elites gain more. Given that history has shown when that happens things take a turn for the worse and then the exploitation of the people is sure to follow.

So while you're busy rolling in ectasy on that turd you think you lost, you may want to look around a bit because the ruling class is spreading them everywhere and you're going to be expected to pay & carry them.
 
Well here's a little clarification on the legal posturing. It appears contrary to media reports Trump was working within his legal rights. This doesn't look too good for the guys that may have abused their power. Time will tell but it appears the teamwith the accusations may have bent the rules. It ain't over till it's over, but the media has been fueling the insanity and the false narratives.

townhall.com

Did Trump's Legal Team Stick the 'Dagger' Into the Heart of the Biden DOJ's Mar-a-Lago Case?

Former President Donald Trump’s lawyers might be going for the legal jugular in the ongoing fight between the Biden Justice Department and the former president over classified information seized from
townhall.com townhall.com
 
It does appear more and more each day that this illegal raid is going to backfire on the Biden Admin. and they will end up with more then egg on their face with the citizens of this country.
They may have made the mistake of giving Trump several million more votes if he runs in 2024. If he does and wins, I look for him to clean house of a lot of liberal Democrats in many government agencies. He will not make the mistake he did the first time of leaving many two faced Democrats in high management positions.
RELH
 
As I've said before we've had 7 years of "we've got him him now" bull thrown at him and yet, it's all proven as BS. No apologies, no acknowledgements, no nothing. Can you say intellectually dishonest?
 
Snoop, there are an awful lot of trump loyalists who are in jail or indicted (at least the ones who weren’t smart enough to abandon ship). And some more who have plead the 5th like a thousand times. Oh, lets not forget the 40 new subpoenas just yesterday.

It would appear to me that there is a lot of deference being shown to the former POTUS. The strategy seems to be to isolate him by throwing everyone around him in jail. They aren’t going to charge him unless its ironclad and serious. This has progressed beyond parking tickets.

At the end of the day, the trump presidency will be regarded as the most corrupt in modern history and he will live out his days in a prison of his own making surrounded by “his” merry band of clowns and criminals.
 
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So Blue why don't you take the time to explain to us how this whole damn travesty that started with the most corrupt act in US history has managed to become Trumps the most corrupt President in history. He did a lot of the right things for the country and American's were living a better way of life under his administration as opposed to now.

Yes claiming he won the election was wrong at the time and still is, but in the end he may actually be vindicated with all the illegal crap that was pulled in our elective process.

The elector scandal was clearly wrong but how do you compare that to his entire presidency being sabotaged and them plotting to over throw him numerous times, using a soft coup d'etat over it's entire term by the dems.

Granted this isn't the most honorable period in our history but it appears one sides sins are forgiven while the others require a pound of flesh of the man they demonized for 6 years 24/7/365. Besides based on the fact the damn media has been lying the entire time how will we actually ever know what the facts actually are?

Who's going to lay out all the facts and show the American people what really went on in this entire damn mess?

Sorry this one will be swept under the rug and the facts have already been classified to hell and back along with much of the fraud used to ignite the whole thing initially. So in the end we'll most likely never know except that Trump was wrong and the hundreds that tried to over throw him will never be revealed or charged to the American public. Justice wasn't served in any this but it sure as hell wasn't followed either.

In the end America's image was tarnished by a host of bad actors still on the payroll free to committ their crimes against the next guy they choose to impune with their criminal acts. So justice and the constitution be damned to the acts of party politic and Trump may still pay for his crimes against the state and the thousands of infractions he committed. Wouldn't the founders be disgusted by all the players in this sordid little affair.
 
Someday someone will do the math on indictments, sentences, and 5th amendment shields and let us know where he stands.

But in the absence of any facts at my fingertips, I’ll just declare it so and wait for someone to prove me wrong. The same way as the media and academia will.

And I’ve shared my opinion here that I simply think he lost his mind when he lost. Someone should have played catch with him when he was a boy.
 
Blue your dream is going to turn into a nightmare concerning Trump. Do you really believe that Trump was more crooked then Biden and the whole Biden family. You might as well toss Obama into that mix. He took a 65 million deal under the table, but was smart enough to do it in a way that would not get him indicted.
RELH
 
I doubt most of the guys on here will dispute he's his own worst enemy. He was a spoiled rich kid and since he owned his own business and got mega rich his ego is immense and he can easily drive people nuts like he has the left. None of us were players in this damn mess and we've all been wrong about something in this mess.

You're entitled to your opinion and we are too, but he never got to be the President because the left wouldn't let him.

He's still driving them nuts and he's out of office and that kind of hatred was fomented by the media and the lefts manipulation of the facts and the lies they spread. His actions only increased that hatred for many.

The country lost BIG in this mess because we were in a much better place than we are today in hundreds of ways because of what they did, so in the end we all lose.

If they would have played by the rules and left well enough alone one can only imagine how much better things would be today. He wouldn't have acted the way he did and might have actually been more presidential.

But the one thing that's indisputable is, what we have now sitting in the top 2 chairs & their governing majority is a complete mockery and purposely inflicting pain on millions upon millions of households and how is that serving the people that elected them?

The actions of a few have resulted in the suffering of millions who don't deserve to pay the price since they were innocent in the whole damn mess. Our government has lost it's way and we the people must take it back for the good of the nation.
 
RELH said:
Blue your dream is going to turn into a nightmare concerning Trump. Do you really believe that Trump was more crooked then Biden and the whole Biden family. You might as well toss Obama into that mix. He took a 65 million deal under the table, but was smart enough to do it in a way that would not get him indicted.
RELH
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You keep saying that, and I keep saying I mostly agree. Biden is so bad trump might win. Time will tell.

In the meantime explain what you mean by my nightmare. Life goes on either way and I’ll keep trying to make the most of it.
 

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