Locked Forest Service Gates

M

mort75

Guest
Locked Forest Service Gates

LAST EDITED ON May-27-08 AT 04:29PM (MST) by nochawk (moderator)[p]Im starting this thread in regards to a thread i read about the guy on the fourwheeler getting in trouble for being behind the locked gate.. The Thing that realy chaps my *** is the fact that they can put these gates on public roads and lock them for several months.. I live down here on the San Juan.. Last year the forest service put up some locked gates restricting access to the blue mountains.. they lock these gates on May 1st.. There reasoning is for safty and so people dont tear up the road.. Seems like ******** to me because the whole road is nothing but shell rock.. There are also two hunting seasons going on.. The Bear hunt and the turkey hunt.. I am a bear hunter and have helped several people with bear tags.. It is frusturating to not have access to were the good hunting is.. I have started bear down low and they have gone up over the top and have had no way of getting to the bear tree or gathering up dogs.. We have had to wait 3 or 4 days for dogs to make there way back out.. Its dang frusturating.. Not only is it not a forest service road it is a county owned and maintained raod.. Sorry guys im just venting a bit.. What are all your thoughts on these gates..
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

You are right - it is frustrating, especially when it is a county maintained road, but the FS has rights that supercede the county and for right or wrong have many different reasons for locking the gates.

Have you talked with the local FS office about unlocking them for public use? Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I have seen in happen before when I worked for the FS.

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Mort, you aint gonna get a lot of love on this one.

I'm usually in favor of locked gates, theres too much motor vehicle acess as it is.

You haven't had your access taken away, just your prefered means. Walk it, or horse it, its still public land and you can still enjoy it.

Ask them why.

Gates aren't locked just on a whim, there is reason. Agencies don't send a paid employee, tearing up a govt. truck, burning tax payer fuel, to lock a gate...just cause.
 
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i would definitely get ahold of them.try to find out whats goin on.maybe a 5 min.phone call will help.who knows.usually the roads in the areas i frequent are only closed during the winter and then open as the weather permits and snow melts
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

+1,.....IF THEY WEREN'T LOCKED THERE WOULD BE VERY LITTLE BACKCOUNTRY. PEOPLE WOULD ENCROACH MORE & MORE....PEOPLE KNOW NO LIMITS, & IT CANNOT BE LEFT TO GOOD JUDGEMENT....MAN IS THE PROBLEM.......YD.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

OF COURSE D13R WOULD SAY -1. I SAY KEEP THEM LOCKED. W A L K!!! AS STATED BEFORE, THERE IS A REASON. YOU STILL HAVE ACCESS, JUST NOT WITH A PICKUP OR ATV. +1
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

They lock them on May 1 out here because they want to keep you from harassing the Wildlife.

Darn good idea.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

One of the main reasons they often lock them around May 1st for a couple months is because it is a elk calving area.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

It has been unlocked since forever.. The elk have been here for approx 20 yrs and it is one of the best units in the state. they have been thriving without the gate locked.. Why all the sudden the change..
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

.....because they don't want you there...ever...period. Public land belongs to ALL the public, not just deer and elk hunters. You guys sure have more faith in the intentions of the federal government than I do.

JB
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

>.....because they don't want you there...ever...period.
>Public land belongs to ALL
>the public, not just deer
>and elk hunters. You guys
>sure have more faith in
>the intentions of the federal
>government than I do.
>
>JB

Amen to that + 2 words.... quicky saw.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

I'm surprised at the replies to this post. I think this is bigger than closing a gate so you can't drive on a road. The problem I see is why is it the Goverments job to tell me when I can and can't use public land. If I want to drive on an existing road it should be up to me to do it responsibly and safely.
I recently made a trip to the selway in Idaho and took an over the snow shuttle to the river. This year the Forest service is charging for a permit to drive over the snow to the river. Once the snow is off it is open to the public without a permit. Why?
What is the Goverment going to decide/mandate for me next? Some of the replies to this post border on a socialistic veiw, I don't understand why we want the Goverment to continue to control more and more of our freedoms. I think the Forest service is getting way out of control in some areas and not inforcing laws already in place that could limit many of their problems.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

LAST EDITED ON May-27-08 AT 07:10PM (MST)[p]You said it perfectly noluck. Many of the posts are suggesting that we are too dumb to know how to act when we're driving up the mountain road. We need the government to escort us and hold our hand. I guess we could just allow ourselves to be more and more dependant on the all knowing government until they control every aspect of our lives. Heck maybe in a few years they'll tell us when we can and can't walk up the mountain. That mountain is fine with people driving over it in the spring, it has been for decades. If they're worrying about elk numbers, quit giving out 200 cow tags every year.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Hey NOLUCK dont you think you shuld change your name to alottaluck
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Mort are you going to move to Germany? Or should we just let our government develop into theirs and make this Germany? Apparantly the lack of freedom would be welcome for some. You know.... The freedom that the soldiers died for!
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Sometimes the gates get lock by people who have a different outlook on the deal, like maybe a CMU operator wants the gates locked(been there,SJ County deputy locked it, county unlocked it)

A little digging just might bring out the why.
you just need to find out who was the person that MADE the decsion.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

What happend to the Germany post.. Did he realize he was an idiot and removed it himself..
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

They often close the gates because somebody may tear up the roads and country side. Often here in Flagstaff, it is the horn hunters who drive anywhere to gather horns even if they are tearing up the roads and going cross country - they can cover a lot of ground that way. Sometimes it is just people romping though the forest. While probably 90% of the users of the roads wouldn't do that stuff, the other 10% would. They don't have enough enforcement folks because they don't have the funding because they (the government) spend the money on other things they deem more important. In the National Forests around Flagstaff, there are well over 1,000,000 acres (that is 1,500 square miles) with only 8 enforcement officers which at any given time only 6 are on duty, and 4 are actually in the field. Th Forest Services' only recourse is to close the roads. Don't get me wrong, I don't like it, because I deal with it here too and have come to realization that is the way they see it. I have see the torn up roads (that happens usually in the spring). And they don't have money top fix them either. One bad apple ruins it for the whole basket. It stinks but that is the way it is.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

I have to agree with noluck. I am not for 4 wheelers tearing everything up, but I don't completely trust the government. They tend to do a lot of things that are not in the public interest. I wonder what all these guys saying "walk" or "ride your horse" would be saying if they locked it at the pavement. Maybe say, 35 miles from the hunting? What is the difference? Where does it stop? Rememeber they decide.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

nope, i must have hurt someones feelings and they took it off. awh. so sad. IT IS LOCKED BECAUSE OF THE SNOW PACK PROBLEMS FACING THE WEST THIS YEAR ACCORDING TO THE FOREST SERVICE. MANY WERE STILL CLOSED AS OF LAST WEEK BECAUSE OF MUD AND SNOW!!!!
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

>nope, i must have hurt someones
>feelings and they took it
>off. awh. so sad. IT
>IS LOCKED BECAUSE OF THE
>SNOW PACK PROBLEMS FACING THE
>WEST THIS YEAR ACCORDING TO
>THE FOREST SERVICE. MANY WERE
>STILL CLOSED AS OF LAST
>WEEK BECAUSE OF MUD AND
>SNOW!!!!


You're familiar with this particular gate??

JB
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

I'm older than most of you guys; we old guys are less diplomatic than to see "don't completely trust the government". I hardly trust them at all.

To be honest, sportsmen who dirt bike and use ATVs have REALLY been known to tear things up. I agree we should not have roads closed MUCH of the time. Although I've seen it do a great amount of good where some areas have about 80% of the roads closed during hunting season. It gives the deer/elk places to get away from road hunters and has really worked, yet allows general access.

If we want "them" to trust us, we've got to stop driving off the trails and stop tearing things up. By us, I mean those that drive them (my kids for example). I walk and it is an infinitely more successful method while hunting, but during the rest of the summer, those roads COULD stay open......IF we would police our outdoor companions, so that damage is not done.

We all believe we like "wilderness". We know the game needs it. We need to protect it, including from ourselves.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

I'm fat and lazy but I own a $7,000 ATV. How come I can't go where I want to? It is my constitutional right to be able to go anywhere I want on my ATV.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

READ THE CONSTITUION AGAIN 280. NO ITS NOT. IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, THERE WERE NO ATVS DURING THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

THAT IS WHY THE FORSEST SERVICE AND BLM KEPT THE GATES AROUND HERE SHUT AND THAT IS WHAT THEY TOLD EVERYONE WHO ASKED WHY GATES IN GENERAL WERE SHUT LONGER THAN NORMAL. WHEN THEY SAID THAT WE ALL FIGURED THAT WENT FOR THE REST OF THE STATE AS WELL. MAYBE NOT...
 
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I wish the FS would close EVERY gate ALL the time. I am so sick and tired of the abuse I see in my area. Littering, torn up areas, damaged signs etc. And I know it is probably happening nationwide. That's why I turned in the dirtbag on the 4-wheeler. And I'll keep doing it. I also know the abuse isn't limited to people on ATV's. I don't care who I find breaking the law, I'm calling authorities. mtmuley And d13er, your crap is getting really old.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Keep the gates locked. Walk or ride a bike in. I am so sick of thinking I'm in a restricted motor vehicle area and all of a sudden a for wheeler comes bombing by me after he has illegally passed by the gate.Lock all gates!!!!!!
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

>I'm fat and lazy but I
>own a $7,000 ATV. How
>come I can't go where
>I want to? It is
>my constitutional right to be
>able to go anywhere I
>want on my ATV.

Thats the attitude that closes roads. FS will make up any excuse to keep certain Dumba$$es from tearin it up, fire, snow, rain and so on. But i still get a laugh when some guy i saw puttin all day on the road with his nifty ATV asks me if i seen any elk cuz he aint seen none all day....not even the heard just 100yds off the road that hardly looked his way through a juniper break....i dont like em much but they sure are funny little buggers, thinkin thats hunting and they gonna find em some horns.


"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." -- Abraham Lincoln
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

>I wish the FS would close
>EVERY gate ALL the time.
>I am so sick and
>tired of the abuse I
>see in my area. Littering,
>torn up areas, damaged signs
>etc. And I know it
>is probably happening nationwide. That's
>why I turned in the
>dirtbag on the 4-wheeler. And
>I'll keep doing it. I
>also know the abuse isn't
>limited to people on ATV's.
>I don't care who I
>find breaking the law, I'm
>calling authorities. mtmuley And d13er,
>your crap is getting really
>old.



I was thinking about getting a 300RUM....you'll be my buddy then won't you?

JB
 
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P.S. theres always the wilderness solution. I Typically only hunt wilderness which has no roads....no roads means no closed roads. That or country that couldnt be home to a road for fact of sheer ruggedness. Do i walk the rubber off my boots? yes. Is it worth it? yes. But packin out is half the fun! And if on occasion you find an atv in one of these areas and it happens to have 4 flat tires that guy better be really good with explanations ;-)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." -- Abraham Lincoln
 
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I'm sure the FS and BLM close gates just to piss off you heros! Flagstaff hit the nail on the head .... the gates are closed because people abuse the rights they are given. You ought to live in my area and watch the trailers from so. nevada heading up the mountain on May 1st with 6 wheelers and 6 methhead kids going "MUDDIN'" I for one am damn glad somebody is keeping an eye on things. Since when should the rules be changed to accomodate bear hunters. If you can't keep up with your dogs .... stay home.

RUS
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

MtMuley +1

gb22 +1

Because people can't, or won't abide by common sense rules to stay on trails there will be, and should be, more closures. It has nothing to do with Trusting the Government and everything with not being able to trust a growing cross section of the People.

Beanman
 
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Just another example of how the few can ruin anything for the many.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Lock them all. When I get out, I enjoy peace and quiet. Nothing I hate more than seeing a place torn up with atv tracks everywhere, or waking up to the sound of a four wheeler. If you are riding for the sake of riding, there are places just for that. There is a reason they make boots and packs for hunters. If you are too fat and lazy to get out and walk, there are always treestands and insulated blinds with coffee, chairs, and magazines if you're bored.
 
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LAST EDITED ON May-28-08 AT 07:42AM (MST)[p]Daniel, If you like peace and quie thike into some wilderness area that is roadless dont camp on a main county road that is maintained monthly.. Wich this post is talking about..

Russ i will challenge you to keep up with a pack of hounds on a fresh bear track. I never have met anyone who could..
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

From what I've seen, we need more locks. There are enough of us that can't be trusted and that minority does enough damage to effect us all.

If you want to see a ridiculous ATV/road situation come to the Black Hills of SD. Half the trails there could be locked shut and you'd still have to keep your head on a swivel to keep from getting run over by a 4wheeler. Fight to avoid something similar in your state!
 
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Seems like locking the gate would only keep the responsable people out. If someone is going to break the law and drive of road why would a locked gate stop them.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Mort, I'd be curious to know if you're more upset by locked gates are people tearing up roads. Do you have a problem with people who tear up roads? Do you have a problem with people who ride off road? Do you do anything about those situations, if you do care?

You can be part of the solution, or part of the ,it's your choice. If you are part of the solution, perhaps a few more roads will open up rather than close down for part of the year.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

LAST EDITED ON May-28-08 AT 08:53AM (MST)[p]I'm in favor of locked gates, my experience is it's better hunting behind locked gates because noone will walk. So those of us who are willing to walk have alot better hunting. Where I live there are alot of locked gates both Forest Service and Fruit Growers (timber co.) and the turkey and deer hunting is great because nobody wants to walk.

I wish they would lock more gates, it makes the hunting better for me and my son who love to hike.

Just my opinion.

Slide
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

To bad we could not get a few more gates locked for the fall. Sure would make hunting hard for the majority but it would most likely help the area.
 
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There are roads that should not be closed and others that should. It seems that people who are elderly, handicapped, or have had injuries in their life are automatically labeled fat and lazy on this web site. So I guess to heck with them, who cares. I know a number of older people who have given up hunting just because of the access problems occuring. Roads have been closed that force people to walk miles before they can get to areas that have any chance of seeing game. I've got no problems closing gates in areas, but leave some areas with easier access for others, not 4 wheeler access.
 
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Frontier, that's entirely reasonable. Like most other things in life, there should be a happy medium somewhere away from any extreme. Problem is, one man's reasonable compromise is another man's unreasonable extremism all too often.
 
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Close all them, My horses cost so much that I could use them more it would be great. Just don't let ADA know about it.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

+1 gator. The cost of feed is so high that i might as well get my moneys worth and ride behind locked gates where the sound of the creek and birds rules instead of the motors. KEEP THEM ALL LOCKED!!
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

-35
What you are all not realizing is that the forest service will be more than happy to lock lots of gates, at the pavement. What will you do then? When the gate is locked 28 miles down the drainage and far from the hunting? You say they are closing the roads because of snow, and people tearing up the roads. What is the difference between a foot of snow now, and in October? I am not advocating illegal use of ATV's or tearing up roads. But I am telling you that the feds (and greenies) would love to close down all access. Get ready to pay for a flying service to hunt your own forest.
 
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Well I guess I will have to take a few more days off of work to walk to my location!
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Don't assume they will leave everything open to horses, you know what assume spells!
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

>-35
>What you are all not realizing
>is that the forest service
>will be more than happy
>to lock lots of gates,
>at the pavement. What
>will you do then? When
>the gate is locked 28
>miles down the drainage and
>far from the hunting?
>You say they are closing
>the roads because of snow,
>and people tearing up the
>roads. What is the
>difference between a foot of
>snow now, and in October?
>I am not advocating illegal
>use of ATV's or tearing
>up roads. But I am
>telling you that the feds
>(and greenies) would love to
>close down all access.
>Get ready to pay for
>a flying service to hunt
>your own forest.

That just means the game will move back closer to the gates, dude.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

"What you are all not realizing is that the forest service will be more than happy to lock lots of gates, at the pavement. What will you do then? When the gate is locked 28 miles down the drainage and far from the hunting?"


What do you think they did a hundred years ago? Even 75 years ago? Ride a horse. With no vehicle access, it wont take 28 miles to get into good game.













It's Bush's fault!!!
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

ATVs and motorbikes are often used to hunt areas in violation of laws and this pisses me off when I am doing it the right way by hiking in. Maybe the riders are not lazy but certainly inconsiderate and law-vreakers. They screw up my hunt and the animals hightail it out of the basin when it sound like the Indy 500 on opening morn.

Restrict motorized vehicles and you will see game tend to follow traditional patterns of movement and allow for hunting rather than chasing and shooting using ATVs and motorbikes. That generally means the game will be closer to access points.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

A hundred years ago they hunted the game when they could. Like November and December(when they are in the winter ground). Do you think the game will be "closer to the gate dude" when the gate is at 4500 ft.. In October. No. Clearly it is pointless to try and explain that the USFS can and will lock the gates to where you cannot get to the game. The game will not be anywhere near the winter ground during hunting season. Have any of you hunted the Frank Church?? No. Because it is such a remote and vast tract of roadless, that you either have to ride horses 30 miles or fly in.
 
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Uh actually yes, i have hunted it. Great place to hunt because you DO HAVE TO HIKE IN OR RIDE PONIES! THIS ENTIRE AREA WAS ONCE ROADLESS, GEE, I WONDER HOW THEY GOT AROUND, OH YA, THEY WALKED OR RODE HORSES! IT WAS DONE JUST 60 YEARS AGO, SO WHY CANT YOU LAZY TURDS DO IT NOW!! I AM SO SICK OF HEARING ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO DRIVE YOUR VEHICLES TO WHERE EVER ON GODS GREEN EARTH YOU WANT TO. WHAAA! LOCK IT UP AND WATCH THE NUMBER OF GAME RISE!!
 
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Does Everyone forget why these roads are here? LOGGING.. Not because some lazy guy decided to put a road in so that he could get to ALL the game animals. It just comes down to if people would respect the land by not littering or driving everywhere but where they should be they wouldnt close as many gates.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Hey right on. Lock them all. Good luck getting to the trail heads. I have hunted wilderness areas my whole life, I really enjoy them. (probably way more places than you BQ). I have never had a problem with atv's in any true wilderness areas, most you couldn't get one into if you tried. Unless it was a honda 90 or something. I get tired of all the guys saying how much boot leather they wear out every year...blah...blah...blah...cue Brad Paisley. And if you do hike into remote places, more power too you....I bet you took a Forest Service road to your jumping off point.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

You keep asking that. The answer is yes, I have. I walked. I'll do so again this year. (I'm 57)
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

>Hey right on. Lock them all.
> Good luck getting to
>the trail heads. I
>have hunted wilderness areas my
>whole life, I really enjoy
>them. (probably way more places
>than you BQ). I
>have never had a problem
>with atv's in any true
>wilderness areas, most you couldn't
>get one into if you
>tried. Unless it was
>a honda 90 or something.
>I get tired of all
>the guys saying how much
>boot leather they wear out
>every year...blah...blah...blah...cue Brad Paisley.
>And if you do hike
>into remote places, more power
>too you....I bet you took
>a Forest Service road to
>your jumping off point.

You must think your god, baggin on folks whom you dont know nor how they hunt. Ive stated i hunt wilderness and folks claiming to also i believe. for good reason, its better! Ill bet you took some type of road to get where ever the heck you hunt. Youd had a good point till blah blah blah. Heres another one, try mountain biking in, closed or open road. There solves ye problem.


"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." -- Abraham Lincoln
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

BigWooley. Not bagging on other people, just you. LOL. As I stated before I hunt wilderness areas almost exclusivley. They are great. I just don't think we should make the whole Lower 48 one. As for baggin on how others hunt. Read your own post (#33). Pot calling kettle black.

P.S. don't get riled up at .280 remington....I believe he was using something called sarcasm.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

#1. I do not consider riding on the back of or inside a motorized vehicle all day hunting.

I for one would be happy with no dirt roadS being open, i hardly use them when it comes to hunting. Other times yes, do i need to? no. I stated that that attitude is what closes roads, not that it bothered me. The roads TYPICALLY get closed for good reason or stupid people. There is nothing i hate more than the sound of a quad or truck or coming over a hill just to find another road.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." -- Abraham Lincoln
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

So what about the new signs they are putting up that say That all horsemen must provide there own Hay and grain for there horses they are not allowed to graze on the mountain.. it would be pretty funny so see a bunch of hoses packing up the mountain for 30+ miles with a bale of hay on there back..
 
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I have spent a lot of years walking into and hunting a wilderness area. Nothing will drive you crazier than spending the pre-dawn hours hiking up a mountain, and having some outfitter with his out of state dudes ride right through your hunt, spooking everything in the area. These A-holes never see a thing from their horses.
I think that they should keep everyone out of the forest except me, and who ever I want to let in. The rest of you just aren't responsible enough to let you risk spoiling my hunt.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

mort75

many outfitters and packers pack in hay bales and hay pellets and grain, and its usually two bales on their back, one doesn't balance so well.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

LAST EDITED ON May-29-08 AT 00:46AM (MST)[p]>A hundred years ago they hunted
>the game when they could.
> Like November and December(when
>they are in the winter
>ground). Do you think
>the game will be "closer
>to the gate dude" when
>the gate is at 4500
>ft.. In October. No.
> Clearly it is pointless
>to try and explain that
>the USFS can and will
>lock the gates to where
>you cannot get to the
>game. The game will
>not be anywhere near the
>winter ground during hunting season.
> Have any of you
>hunted the Frank Church?? No.
> Because it is such
>a remote and vast tract
>of roadless, that you either
>have to ride horses 30
>miles or fly in.

Clearly it's pointless to explain to you that I am looking at the big picture of hunting access here. If everyone was responsible with their ATV's I wouldn't have a problem. However when 350lb Joe Blow whizzes by a non hunting hiker on his 4 wheeler while acting like a jackass (something I've seen), it provides more ammo for the anti's to shut down all hunting/wheeler activities in the area.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Oh well, might as well get on the s### list.

When the local BLM director decides to close a road that has been in existance for over a hundred years, that is wrong. He did it in "anticipation of an upcoming closure"....which never happened.
Of course, they won't unlock them now until they get a directive from DC.

They have actually blocked off roads, with huge boulders, while dozens of people were in camp areas, hunting or picking pinenuts. The idiots never even bothered to drive up the road and check to see if anyone was there. There was no prior notice given to the public.

If you guys want to hunt in no vehicle areas, go to the wilderness and do your thing.

I don't want any roads in a wilderness either....but you can't convert logging and mining areas back into wilderness. You are only a virgin once.

If some of us want to drive in to a 5 day base camp, on the same road that my grandfather took me in on, why should you care? I promise not to bring my horse, mule, llama, Sherpa or whatever, anywhere near your hunt area. I don't own a quad or a dirt bike....don't like 'em much, but others have a right to use them.

I personnaly despise the "Green Gestapo" and every thing that they do. Government teat suckers, most of them. I refuse to get into a conversation with any of them I meet. I just want them to go away as fast as they can.

I know a lot of hunters and fishermen that spend way more time cleaning up the forest than any Govt employees. For the most part, they are rude "richard heads", and the ones they hire during the summer are the worst of the worst. Nature fakers with a badge.

My theory is, if you can't find a hunting area where there are NO vehicles of any kind, you need to get away from roads and trails that they use. If they show up illegally.....shoot 'em.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Take SE Utah for a exp. The Blues if the gates was closed at the foothills on all sides how long would it be before their would be some outstanding bucks on that mountain. To hunt it straight up that would be a hike and a half. but not all those bucks would stay up on the top many would move down in the scrub oak area's and be reachable by any and all.

I'm sure there is area's like this in all the zones that they could do this too.


Big Bucks less roads I might like that.

On the other hand, I'm don't like the idea one guy sitting in a chair saying close this road or close that road What happen to the local sportsman group WHY can't they help decide where and how this could be done to benefit the hunters, Well because the guy making those decisions really don't care about our group he got his own little ax to grind. Either way NO-ONE will be happy 100% happy on this deal.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Mort,
they would use hay pellets, not hay bales. they normally take them anyway.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

When I first posted I thought some of you guys were granola loving, big Government socialist but now I've changed my mind. Now that I read all the responses I understand the issue if we block off all human contact with the backcountry and confine people to the cities the animals will do better.

I'm now in full support, but I want the Governments help, please ban scopes on rifles, cams on bows, in-line muzzleloaders. Let's keep going it's tough for fat guys to hike at all without all the modern lightweight gear, so if you're going to go hiking you should have to wear all natural products leather, canvas, and burlap. I also don't think it's fair you can see animals from a couple miles away with your expensive binoculars, it should be mandated if you didn't buy your glass at Wal-Mart it shouldn't be used. I'm getting excited now; I bet the animals really make a comeback because there won't be many killed now. I know you guys will love this, NO MORE SPORTSMANS GROUPS; after all they are founded by the devil for the rich fat guy riding his four-wheeler.

I think the future is looking bright now here is my 20 yr prediction, no sportsman group money = loss of habitat restoration money. 80% less hunters = Less revenue for Fish and game. Hunting is so difficult 90% of current kids interested lose interest ? future money. No predator control ? I'm sure that won't impact wildlife. Wake up. Look where wildlife numbers where in the 1800?s and where they are today. You guys are geniuses?.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Hello, new to the place. I have read alot of the blogs and feel this way, I am a member of a sportsman org. however we futher the need for habitat and population. We are not in favor of the atv for hunting purposes. There is a difference between locking a gate to help the herds, and locking it because of access problems like riding off the trails. I am for locking the gates. Frank Church is locked all the time and the numbers are doing well. If it works there, why not in other places.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

>Mort,
>they would use hay pellets, not
>hay bales. they normally take
>them anyway.

HMMM some of the wilderness i hunt in southern arizona i occasionally see strings of people with bales on their backs, kinda looks like a pain to pack...funny thing was there was no horses??? They must know somthing i dont ;-)


"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." -- Abraham Lincoln
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

LAST EDITED ON May-29-08 AT 01:31PM (MST)[p]" Look where wildlife numbers where in the 1800?s and where they are today."

Oh if I had a nickel every time I heard that. Please elaborate more on predator control, logging, fires, lack of seasons/laws, and market hunting and their respective effects on mule deer and elk in various areas of the west during the 1800's.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Noluck, you make some good points. Most everybody only looks at somebody else's intrusion on them. Everyone wants more game, but bottom line is you can only have what habitat allows. If locking a gate improves habitat, then you bet. Usually winter habitat will be the determining factor what the carrying capacity for the herd will be, but if they have good habitat to go into winter then they have a better chance of making it through the winter. Good habitat in my opinion is good feed along with not being overly disturbed.

If people have better access, which makes easier harvests the only side effects should be shorter seasons. If the Game departments are doing their job, the harvest should be sustainable.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

I disagree Frontier...

Southern Utah has a 5 day season and roads everywhere and we still do a great job of killing most of the bucks before they reach maturity. To allow for some survivability of bucks to maturity with the amount of motor vehicles access currently on these units the season would have to be shortened to one day or perhaps even 6 hours. I would rather have 80% of the roads closed and 14 days to hunt instead of being able to kill a 3-point within 800 yards of a two-track in the 5 day season currently allowed.

Utah has certainly done their job of allowing a sustainable harvest of yearlings and two-year old bucks. Reduced motor vehicle access would allow for a sustainable harvest of mature bucks. To have decent deer hunting (by decent I mean a 50% chance at a 160-170 class buck each season) we can either reduce permits by 50% or more (meaning you can hunt every 3-5 years) or reduce motor vehicle access significantly. I would rather walk and hunt each year or every other year than be able to drive up to a decent buck every fifth year.

+1 for reducing motor vehicle access on public lands.

-RPinenut
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Lock more gates! How hard is it to hike up a raod? get off yer arse!
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

>>Mort,
>>they would use hay pellets, not
>>hay bales. they normally take
>>them anyway.
>
>HMMM some of the wilderness i
>hunt in southern arizona i
>occasionally see strings of people
>with bales on their backs,
>kinda looks like a pain
>to pack...funny thing was there
>was no horses??? They must
>know somthing i dont ;-)
>
>
>
>"America will never be destroyed from
>the outside. If we falter
>and lose our freedoms, it
>will be because we destroyed
>ourselves." -- Abraham Lincoln


obviously. no one i know pack hay now days. we pack hay pellets. they are way easier to pack in and go farther than hay bales
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Pinenut, I think we are agreeing. Utah Game department is not doing their job. One of two things or both have to happen. Close off more access, and, or reduce the number of hunters, hence a shorter season. May only be hunting deer every five years in Utah, or what ever it takes.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

+1 Mtmuley...

They don't close these gates just to piss people off. They close them for a reason. I find it funny that people turn this into a bashing on the goverment for violating their rights to access public land. They keep gates closed for certain periods, so all the less intelligent people out there who could care less about destruction to the environment don't tear everything up.

On our forest we open roads as soon as motorized access will not have a overwhelming effect in tearing up the terrain. It is different from year to year, based off of snowpack and runoff dates. With all the snow this past winter some gates still remained closed, with the forests best interests in mind...preservation.

People forget that it can still be accessed by a old traditional method of transportation...walking or by horseback.

BowHuntr
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

I hate the locked gates its all around the northwest its public land its taxpayer money that builds them roads whats wrong with some access for us taxpayers and hunters if there not maintained they grow over and take care of themselfs anyway so what if they get torn up restrict the off road travel for sure but tear down the gates . waste of money to put them up in the first place... so the road hunters have a spot so what why shouldn't they why not make more land accesible to the youth and the girls and the old timers ... its public land taxpayers paid for them roads so let the public use them ..heck more money for the body shops....
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

"They keep gates closed for certain periods, so all the less intelligent people out there who could care less about destruction to the environment don't tear everything up."

The gates dont stop these people they stop us good guys and gals.




Kyle
"If it moves shoot it again"
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Does everybody remember when the thought of paying $3.00 for gas was infuriating? Now we would kill for $3.00 gas. My point is, "lowered expectations".

Utah's deer hunting is so terrible, some of us are begging for less easy-access; hoping that will bring herd numbers back up. The sad thing is, I would support it too.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

This is a tough issue.......I hunt lot's of different ways and types of country......wilderness, national forest etc.....generally speaking I use forest service roads/trails to access a region, often on a trail bike..... then hike into the steep and deep from specific jumping off points. I'd be screwed if every forest service gate were closed... and pissed off as well. But I can see the dilema when scumbag hunter wannabes ride their freaking quads like jerks and destroy trails etc.....

I'd have no problem whatsoever with outlawing four wheelers totally, but then again I don't own one..... or want one.I can say I never have hunted from any kind of motorized vehicle...I know I do it right cuz I usually have great country virtually to myself.....

Lets see how this goes over: You guys ever notice what a well used horse trail looks like a few weeks into hunting season???? They do as much if not more damage as any mechanized conveyance.....Not to mention the damage fron invasive weeds that come in with their feed or in the $hit from the field they've been feeding in.... I know there are responsible guys who use quads, bikes, and horses, etc.....the guys that are ir-responsible and don't follow the law or common courtesy are screwing us all.....From what I've seen the forest service does little to enforce laws that are in place.....personally I feel that is the key.....Make the penalties for breaking those laws harsh as hell and enforce them.......
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-08 AT 11:31AM (MST)[p]I have been lobbying here in Wa for them to keep the gates closed year round and only allow vehicle access via special limited draw for the disabled, youth and those over 65. I also would like to see all atvs banned during hunting season except for the disabled and those over 65. Most of the gated off areas around here have led to greater and healthier critter populations.
Eric
famousfigures_abevigoda.gif


Ultra liberal, wolf loving, illiterate, gay, hippie midgets on crack piss me off!!!!

deerline.gif
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

is it public land or not is it tax payer money mine included that paid for them yes then why can i use them as i want to its my land its my money you put a road in there then its my right to use it ......
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

Up here most of the roads have been punched in by private timber companies, so they are NOT publicly funded therefore subject to closure at the land owners disgression.
Eric
famousfigures_abevigoda.gif


Ultra liberal, wolf loving, illiterate, gay, hippie midgets on crack piss me off!!!!

deerline.gif
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

I don't mind the locked gates. In fact, when the lazy ATV riders drive over, or break the motorized restriction (flexible) signs to get to their desired locations, I help enforce the closure by pushing dead trees over the improvised trails that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Then, I think it is fine for them to drive back in. They'll just have to work as hard as the rest of us getting in or getting out, trying to unclog their ticket past the rest of us who respect the rules, like them or not.

I walked into an area and stalked a herd of elk a few years ago and was waiting for a bull to show himself, when a couple goof balls on an ATV came onto the site and sent them scattering.

Don't get me wrong. I'll have an ATV someday to get around easier and save gas, but I won't drive into restricted areas, because I understand that necessity to cut access.

Try walking guys. You'd be surprised how much your health and odds for harvest will improve. For now, I bet my wife walks further and climbs harder then the riders complaining about having to walk.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

DO NOT DRIVE ON DIRT! none of you... where the PAVEMENT ends, get out and walk...

of the 30 years i have hunted so. Utah, i've never seen ATV;s BLAZING TRAILS... they are always on well travel'd roads..

hunting changes.. it does... 50 years hunters maybe using lasers! who knows!
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

"You haven't had your access taken away, just your prefered means. Walk it, or horse it, its still public land and you can still enjoy it."

Quoted by forkwest


This is just where it all starts people !! Its just like gun rights ! They start small and build there way up. Soon the Forest service will take away all your rights of access, we as sportsman are just to STUPID ! to see it, HELL it sounds like many of you have helped support the rights to be taken away ! If you don't believe me try taking a horse trip into the High Uintas of Utah. You will get a taste of what's to come !!

Let's NOT support the closures, instead let's work on educating the people that are breaking the rules by driving there ATV's or what have you into places they should not be.

Don't give up the rights we now have, we will NEVER get them back !!
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

lot of truth to what bucks4brains just said.....I hate loss of rights and restrictions unless there is a dang good reason......They need to nail the hell out of the guys who abuse this right.....I generally dont agree with closing every gate out there.....Too much opportunity lost for the average hunter IMO.
 
RE: Locked Forest Service Gates

i just browsed the YOUTUBE "atv utah" i could not find one offense where there is "off trail" riding!

Utah is fast becoming the " retirement" state, these people like riding ATVs... (JUST MY GUESS )

watch the vids, see for yourself, is there that much off trail riding by deer hunters... or you just don't like ATVS?
some don't like scoped rifles.... some don't like compound bows... some don't like in lines... some! just don't like any thing... we AS HUNTERS cannot live in the past! our love for the hunt is changing.. it is, can we change along with it?
 

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