Major Remington Recall on 7.85 Million 700s

I will Never Buy another Remington!

I already have enough of them!:D








[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY
 
So how do millions of guns get fixed?

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-14 AT 10:01PM (MST)[p]
I had problems with mine going off pre mature. I didn't wait on Remington to fix it. Scary deal
 
Hey boot?

You talkin bout your Rifle?:D



>LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-14
>AT 10:01?PM (MST)
>
>
>I had problems with mine going
>off pre mature. I
>didn't wait on Remington to
>fix it. Scary deal
>










[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY
 
I was a Browning guy for years and now I am a Thompson Center guy....love the single shot ProHunter in my 7mag. and in the .50 cal. muzzy barrel

Robb

PS Mike was that .243 you re-furbished from your dad a Remington?
 
one_dryboot, what was the specific issue that caused your gun to shoot by itself? What did you do to fix it? I would do the same thing btw.

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
Simple fix.
Replace the trigger.
I did it years ago on my 700 with a Timney and never had any problems before and after.
I would not buy a new Rem. for sure.....mine is an old ADL.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-14 AT 08:02AM (MST)[p]>I was a Browning guy for
>years and now I am
>a Thompson Center guy....love the
>single shot ProHunter in my
>7mag. and in the .50
>cal. muzzy barrel
>
>Robb
>
>PS Mike was that .243 you
>re-furbished from your dad a
>Remington?


Robb---It is a Sako Forester and hasn't had anything done to it since the day it was manufactured. I also have a Sako Finnbear in 30-06, have never owned a Remington product, and neither did my Dad, who died on 9/11/11 five days before he turned 89.
 
>So how do millions of guns
>get fixed?
>
>[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I
>just stir it.[/font]


That is a great question and it will be interesting to see how they handle it. The rifles with the newer X Mark Pro triggers that are under recall right now are taking months to be returned to the owners because all are supposed to be returned directly to Remington for the repairs. That recall involves only a small fraction of the number of rifles with the Walker trigger in them. IMHO I see no way they can handle one of this magnitude in a reasonable amount of time even if only 25% of the 7.85 million out there are sent to them. I'd do like many have done over the years and probably what booty did with his premature firing one (good retort by Bess incidentally!) and that is to install an aftermarket trigger at your own cost and forget about Remington doing anything. Can you imagine the cluster**** at the factory if even 25% of that huge number get sent in for repairs?! My guess is that if they do the recall that way that they are praying that not many get sent in with the idea that if anything happens in the future to those that don't get fixed that they will be off the hook because they did recall them.
 
Remington Arms Company, LLC (?Remington?) is voluntarily recalling Remington Model 700? and Model Seven? rifles which were manufactured from May 1, 2006 through April 9, 2014 and which have an X-Mark Pro? (?XMP??) trigger. Rifles manufactured after April 9, 2014 are not subject to recall.

Guess my 74 rifle doesn't qualify.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-14 AT 12:19PM (MST)[p]
The issue they are having is the rifle will fire when taking the safety off with a live round in the chamber. It happened on my Sendero with elk 200 yards in front of me. Thinking maybe I bumped the trigger, The next round went off while closing the bolt. Let's just say those elk got a few warning shots...
The rifle had hundreds of rounds through it before the first issue. After the first time it fired premature I tested it over and over trying to figure out what the hell was going on. And seemed to fire every 20-30 times either taking the safety off or closing the bolt. Searching the Internet I figured out it was a defect with many rifles.
To fix the issue I installed a custom aftermarket trigger and it has never had a problem. I didn't want to deal with Remington so I took care of it. Now the rifle sits collecting dust.
 
Two years ago I bought a new Rem 700 .308 tactical. It has sat in the safe since the day I purchased it.

How much would it cost to put an aftermarket trigger on it?
 
>Two years ago I bought a
>new Rem 700 .308 tactical.
>It has sat in the
>safe since the day I
>purchased it.
>
>How much would it cost to
>put an aftermarket trigger on
>it?


Somewhere between $100-$200 depending on whether you do it yourself or take it to a smith.
 
If you do it yourself, $150 or so for a Timney trigger. Not sure how much if a gun smith installs. It is easy DIY.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-14 AT 02:13PM (MST)[p]>Remington Arms Company, LLC (?Remington?) is
>voluntarily recalling Remington Model 700?
>and Model Seven? rifles which
>were manufactured from May 1,
>2006 through April 9, 2014
>and which have an X-Mark
>Pro? (?XMP??) trigger. Rifles manufactured
>after April 9, 2014 are
>not subject to recall.
>
>Guess my 74 rifle doesn't qualify.
>


This is a totally different recall and involves ALL 700s and 7s made before 2006 that have the Walker "Control Fire" trigger in them!
 
Thanks dryboot. You absolutely did the right thing. Good man! My .300 Win Mag is a 700 BDL. I've never experienced anything like that, but I better do something.

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
I was just telling my wife about this. She laughed and said "Maybe the government is behind this." That a girl! Regular conspiracy theorist. Lol!

I told her I should buy some new guns. :)

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
Eel,

I'm not sure what years and models they are having issue with but definitely look into it and see if your rifle is recalled. It may never happen to you with your rifle, but if it does it could ruin a hunt, or worse, be deadly. I'm grateful the rifle was pointed Down range in a safe direction. It scares me to think what could of happened
 
Same recall announced months ago? IF I owned a few I would never mail them back to have more records of what rifles I may own. I think a new trigger could be I installed DIY in under 20 minutes each even if I never had an issue....just thinking out loud. Nice to keep this issue in the news.
 
The walker trigger does have a 2pc trigger design but if adjusted properly won't fire unintentionally. The major problem comes if dirt and grime get into the trigger. Also never use wd-40 on them. Also I've seen many triggers gunked up from cleaning solvent like hoppes. I recommend using a bore guide anyway. Proper cleaning of the trigger will keep it working properly. Use lighter fluid to flush the trigger and housing.
 
>Same recall announced months ago?
>IF I owned a few
>I would never mail them
>back to have more records
>of what rifles I may
>own. I think a new
>trigger could be I installed
>DIY in under 20 minutes
>each even if I never
>had an issue....just thinking out
>loud. Nice to keep this
>issue in the news.

NO, it is not the same recall announced months ago! The other one involved the newer X Mark Pro triggers that in 2006 replaced the Walker triggers that are in this new recall.
 
>The walker trigger does have a
>2pc trigger design but if
>adjusted properly won't fire unintentionally.
>The major problem comes if
>dirt and grime get into
>the trigger. Also never use
>wd-40 on them. Also I've
>seen many triggers gunked up
>from cleaning solvent like hoppes.
>I recommend using a bore
>guide anyway. Proper cleaning of
>the trigger will keep it
>working properly. Use lighter fluid
>to flush the trigger and
>housing.

That information you have posted is only partially true! The trigger is a one-of-a-kind system that has what is called a "fire control connector" and to the best of my knowledge there is no adjustment because it is not attached to the main mechanisms. Yes, the problem appears to be exacerbated by what you stated if the internal parts are not real clean. However, most people don't have the capability or knowledge of how to even take the assembly out and clean it properly. If that connector does not go back into the proper resting place like it was designed to do, that is what cause these misfires like dryboot had. My guess is that he knows a lot more about firearms and their workings than the average guy just like a lot of others on this website. Even at that look what he has related to us about his experience with that trigger in his posts!
 
Topgun

I have worked on many factory triggers and respring them, stone them and adjust them. Another trick is to jb weld or epoxy the connector to the trigger. This does solve the problem but like you stated most average people don't want to do all that.
Timney, rifle basix, and Jewell make great triggers that are easy to install and adjust and are much better than a factory trigger.
For me I want my rifle to perform the best it can which usually means a light trigger, bedding job and if still not satisfactory most often a custom barrel.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-07-14 AT 00:04AM (MST)[p]Remington is my favorite manufacturer of rifles, and I happen to really like a fine tuned/re-sprung Walker trigger..

I have seen the problem. almost always caused by improper adjustment by the owner. there is an old joke about the "remington combonation", and that is chamber a round,put on the safety,pull the tirgger, take off the safety and gun will fire, without touching the trigger..I've had remingtons that i could make do this, they were adjusted to low without being re-sprung.

If remmy would have made them non-adjustable I highly doubt this would even be an issue, maybe/maybe not.

i aint sending back my fine tuned walkers,most of my guns have aftermarket triggers tho.

THat said i'd recommend guys get them "upgraded" or install an aftermarket. Keep in mind ANY trigger will act like that if it is improperly installed, so if you dont know what you're doing, have it done.

You can sell your walker trigger for nearly what you pay for a timney, they are great triggers for guys that know what they're doing,every bit as good as many aftermarket brands,as such gunsmiths and more savvy rifle guys will snatch them up fast to replace the later xmark trigger system.
 
I do not think you will see many gunsmiths wanting to "snatch them up" used Walker Remington triggers. If they install them on a customer's gun, then they have assumed vicarious liability if that trigger malfunctions and someone gets shot. Not worth the lawsuit.

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-14 AT 10:19AM (MST)[p]CNBC had mislead the public on their report....IMAGINE THAT

here's the link to Remington and clarification on issue

http://www.remington.com/pages/news...s/remington correction of cnbc reporting.aspx

here's text on clarification

Remington Correction of CNBC Reporting

December 06, 2014

Yesterday afternoon, CNBC erroneously reported that Remington Arms was recalling 7.85 million rifles. This report was fundamentally inaccurate and, once again, CNBC did not comply with the most basic tenet of reporting ? fact checking. Even a cursory review of the court filings would have revealed CNBC?s errors. That said, other news sources picked-up and repeated the misinformation about the proposed settlement. In response, the Plaintiffs? counsel immediately took steps to correct CNBC?s inaccuracies by clarifying the terms of the proposed settlement in their own press release, which, in part, stated:


These settlements are not recalls.
These settlements are not any admission that the products are defective or unsafe.

This economic settlement provides an avenue for consumers, who have certain Remington rifles, to voluntarily have a new trigger installed. As noted by the Plaintiffs, the benefits provided by the settlement will not be in place until after court approval.



Remington is issuing this press release today because it is important that the terms of the proposed economic settlement be accurately described, as Remington does not want its customers to be confused or misled.



Further, and contrary to CNBC?s story, it is undisputed that the Remington Model 700 is the best-selling American-made, bolt-action rifle of all time. The Model 700 has also been and continues to be the tactical sniper rifle of choice for the U.S. armed forces and special operators and is widely used by state and federal law enforcement agencies.


This clarifies things to some extent. If replacing any trigger have it done by the factory or a qualified gunsmith to make sure it's set properly. There will be more information on Remington's website about how to handle your firearms. Any qualified gunsmith can check out your weapon and tell you if it's safe. You can return your guns directly to Remington if your weapon qualifies for replacement/ modification if necessary, but you must make sure it qualifies before sending it in.

Now nowhere did I state there wasn't an issue because with some guns there clearly may be, but it's up to the owners to make sure their weapons safe. Just clarifying things a bit so as to correct the liberal news media a bit. Think 7.85 million unsafe guns would cause a few folks to support anti gun measures?
 
They can call it whatever they'd like, but in effect they are finally going to resolve a problem with a defect in their products that has existed since the late 40s IF a person finds out about it on their own because there will still be no recall.

The news media stated more than once that the 700 series was the biggest seller out there, so I have no idea why they made any statement contrary to that like they did in the release. In conclusion, Remington is still not admitting anything is wrong and by going the route they are they are lessening their damages compared to what an actual recall that they should have done decades ago would cost. Isn't it ironic that they finally quit putting the Walker trigger in most of their rifles in 2006 and went with the trigger that Mike Walker, the inventor of that trigger and who stated it was prone to misfires and needed to be replaced, wanted to change them to, LOL!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-14 AT 02:01PM (MST)[p]Top gun if any company in the US was building the same defective product since the 1940's don't you think a few million well educated lawyers may have capitalized on it over 74 years? How could they still be in business??? The company that owns them now (since 2007) wasn't responsible for most of the guns in question yet they're stepping up to do the right thing on many models. Seriously think about that angle how long did it take GM to recall cars for faulty ignitions?

Justice will prevail and contrary to your beliefs why would the US, state and local government buy hundreds of thousands to millions of knowingly defective weapons? The last thing any of them can afford is a defective weapon going off in any situation killing a civilian or disclosing their position. On hundreds of contracts they specified the weapon of choice, you think word wouldn't have spread on this since law enforcement agencies use their weapons much more where the condition would show up? They shoot thousands of rounds per year out of weapons with multiple end users, you can't hide widespread defects with usage like that.

I'm not saying there wasn't / isn't an issue and that folks shouldn't have their guns checked and that one needless death or misfire isn't one too many but the press has always overstated things when they want to back gun control. Remington is offering a remedy for some of those models and I urge any sportsman to reference if his gun is effected to send it in or have it checked by a good gunsmith if for nothing else for peace of mind.
 
Boskee---You obviously aren't up to speed on this whole Walker trigger defect debacle because a lot of lawyers HAVE been making millions of dollars in out of court settlements over all those decades since they started manufacturing them in the late 40s. All of the settlements, which surely total in the millions of dollars, included a stipulation that the plaintiffs not say a word about their lawsuit to anyone or it would be null and void. Remington did that and have continued doing it all these years to try and keep the matter as quiet as possible and avoid an even more expensive recall of all the rifles. The company that now owns them had to fully know about the problem when they bought Remington and they have also continued to stonewall and deny the problem exists, so they are not the saints you portray them to be! The fact that they still will not recall all of them under this settlement IMHO still sucks, but it's how they are going to try and appease people without shelling out any more money than they absolutely have to so they can now say they are taking care of people and yet still will not admit to any defect in their product.

You referenced the GM recall, so I will ask you this. If the gun manufacturers were under any kind of oversight like the car industry and other manufacturers of products that can cause serious injury and deaths, which they are not, how long do you think they could have stonewalled the public before a massive, forced recall was instituted? Unlike many, I have followed this whole mess quite closely over the years and just keep shaking my head that they won't take care of this once and for all and be done with it.

Finally, you mentioned sales to the military, etc. and asked questions along those lines. I believe the reason may be that they all like the actions in the rifle, as do many civilians, and why it's probably used more than all others in custom rebuilds. My supposition is that the stuff the military buys probably goes straight to an armory for serious modifications or maybe they even have different specs. when they make an order that is different than what is sold to the general public. That is just my thought and I have nothing to confirm it. Maybe someone in the know could offer information on that.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-14 AT 09:06AM (MST)[p]Sorry Boskee, Topgun it's the new self proclaimed expert on this subject after watching the CNBC documentary and anyone who disagrees with him doesn't know what they are talking about. He has taken it upon himself to defame a company he has never purchased from using information gleaned from liberal media outlets.

Now for the rest of the story...
The Walker trigger installed in millions of Remington rifles not just the seven and 700 has a two piece trigger. Using the word trigger to describe the actual part of the trigger mechanism that your finger touches. If the two parts separate there is a potential for the rifle to fire while manipulating the safety or bolt. Proper maintenance decreases the chance of this happening. If it does happen however there is no external sign the malfunction has happened. It's estimated, even according to Topguns post on other threads, this condition has presented in about three tenths of a percent of the firearms with walker triggers.

There is no recall.

In court documents filed and awaiting approval by the presiding judge Remington is agreeing to change out, or give $10 or $12.50 vouchers for Remington products to participants in the class action suit. They will also reimburse class action participants who had a Walker trigger changed out to an X Mark Pro trigger at their own expense. If you want to file as a participant in the class action suit there will be information posted in print and online locations about how to file. Triggers will be changed out by sending rifles to Remington or taking them to a Remington authorized gunsmith. A list of smiths is included in the filing and it looks like they have added more to the list than what they had for the X Mark recall.

It took about 20 minutes on the net to get the actual information about this. To bad the CNBC reporters and their blind followers could not do a little fact checking before launching another witch hunt against a gun company.
 
Topgun, You're a smart guy if the largest selling firearm in the world had a trigger as defective as the media wants you to believe why would so many professional agencies still buy it? They know more about guns than you do and shoot millions of rounds thru them every month. There are millions of them in service and have never had a misfire and law enforcement and the military keeps buying them. I spent a couple of decades in the weapons business and sold thousands of Remington's and their triggers on guns we made for the top military and law enforcement agencies in our country.

All firearms manufacturers have had lawsuits for liability claims because the lawyers always go for the deep pockets and they have nondisclosure agreements in the settlements. How many pistol manufacturers have been sued for a an idiot shooting himself in the leg? That's why so many companies have gone off shore and your hunting gun has a 6lb trigger pull from the factory.

The design isn't the best in the world but when adjusted properly has been fairly safe and reliable NOT PERFECT. If adjusted improperly it can be unsafe and prone to misfire. That's not defending Remington if they built a gun with an improperly adjusted trigger and somebody was hurt or killed yes they should have liability.

As to your remark about guns not being monitored you are mistaken. EVERY firearms wound is this country is tracked by the hospital and doctors who treat them because many of them aren't really accidents. Those statistic are forwarded to law enforcement agencies who use them in their crime and firearms, and weapons statistics. Firearms manufacturers have been tracked more than auto manufacturers for decades. How do you think they know a firearms used in a crime was stolen etc. The anti's have imposed more regulation on the firearms business than many other industry's. They don't have to have government approval to sell a car but you do to sell many firearms.

Look I'm not saying your wrong for your thought's about Remington because in many ways you're not, but I will tell you that trigger & it's safety design has been changed many times over the years to try to improve it's safety. I wish not a single individual was ever wounded in a hunting or shooting accident but firearms are dangerous and that's why major shooting ranges don't allow any handling when people are down range...because inevitably somebody's gun goes off when they handled it when it was loaded and guess what they never touched that trigger!

Guns are dangerous and complacency and guns don't mix and with many consumers accidents happen because they didn't practice proper gun safety and it's always the guns fault. Lawyers know that just like defense lawyers defend crooks knowing they committed the crime and they do it for the money.

So Remington has liability YOU'RE RIGHT, and the courts will decide that but where does the gun owner have liability after all nobody ever got shot standing behind the shooter and the guns muzzle yet somehow that point seems to get lost on an unknowing jury... but is clear as day to those guys standing down range when that gun went off at the range. Are there better designs? YES, but let's face reality here and understand that given the number of guns in service the claims against them are a very small percentage of the units in service. The professional's that use them can't be that wrong or they wouldn't still be buying them.
 
>Sorry Boskee, Topgun it's the new
>self proclaimed expert on this
>subject after watching the CNBC
>documentary and anyone who disagrees
>with him doesn't know what
>they are talking about. He
>has taken it upon himself
>to defame a company he
>has never purchased from using
>information gleaned from liberal media
>outlets.
>
>Now for the rest of the
>story...
>The Walker trigger installed in millions
>of Remington rifles not just
>the seven and 700 has
>a two piece trigger. Using
>the word trigger to describe
>the actual part of the
>trigger mechanism that your finger
>touches. If the two parts
>separate there is a potential
>for the rifle to fire
>while manipulating the safety or
>bolt. Proper maintenance decreases the
>chance of this happening. If
>it does happen however there
>is no external sign the
>malfunction has happened. It's
>estimated, even according to Topguns
>post on other threads, this
>condition has presented in about
>three tenths of a percent
>of the firearms with walker
>triggers.
>
>There is no recall.
>
>In court documents filed and awaiting
>approval by the presiding judge
>Remington is agreeing to change
>out, or give $10 or
>$12.50 vouchers for Remington products
>to participants in the class
>action suit. They will also
>reimburse class action participants who
>had a Walker trigger changed
>out to an X Mark
>Pro trigger at their own
>expense. If you want to
>file as a participant in
>the class action suit there
>will be information posted in
>print and online locations about
>how to file. Triggers will
>be changed out by sending
>rifles to Remington or taking
>them to a Remington authorized
>gunsmith. A list of smiths
>is included in the filing
>and it looks like they
>have added more to the
>list than what they had
>for the X Mark recall.
>
>
>It took about 20 minutes on
>the net to get the
>actual information about this. To
>bad the CNBC reporters and
>their blind followers could not
>do a little fact checking
>before launching another witch hunt
>against a gun company.

I haven't defamed anyone, but rather have just stated my feelings like a lot of others, including some member right here, that there is a problem that needs fixing! What you have stated about the failure is exactly what I've been saying here and over on OYOA where YOU seemed to have appointed yourself as the expert on this and tried to drag me down like you're now doing on this thread! Yep, now you have come on here after I said I was done with your garbage over there to keep pounding away and extending a thread with YOUR expertise!

The media hasn't made up the fact that there have been thousands of failures, a number of which have resulted in injuries and deaths when they were either pointed in the wrong direction at people or there were ricochets. The media was not the inventor who lost his Remington pension when he stated in a televised interview that everyone can watch that his invention was prone to problems and needed fixing! Nobody knows the percentages, as it's just a guessing game, but thousands upon thousands of people have reported misfires on rifles that had not been tinkered with. Many others on hunting websites have said their rifles misfired and most did not report the situation because they weren't aware of a potential problem.

Yes, improper cleaning and tinkering with the trigger pull exacerbates the chance of a misfire and I've stated that more than once. I've also stated that the company is now saying that the settlement is not actually a recall. By going the route you mentioned they are saving a ton of money by not doing a recall because it greatly lessens the number of people that will know about it and get their rifles fixed. If there was oversight on gun manufacturers like there is on the car industry, which there isn't, I'd bet there would have been a big recall on this many moons ago even if it was forced on the company. All I'm interested in as an avid shooter/hunter for many decades is that the problem be fixed to cut way down on what has been happening for a long time. I sure won't apologize for that!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-14 AT 10:26AM (MST)[p]Boskee---I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you or anyone else on this, but I wish people would read and comprehend what is stated and not put bogus stuff out saying I said it like you and 6speed have done. I did not say guns aren't monitored like you have now posted. I said that there is no Federal or state oversight/control on manufacturers of firearms. In other words, the car industry and many other manufacturers of products that can injure or kill because of a defect can be forced to recall the product if they won't do it voluntarily. This is not so with gun manufacturers and why this situation has hung on for decades because Remington will not issue a voluntary recall and they can't be forced to do so at the present time.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-14 AT 11:07AM (MST)[p]Top gun it's not a pissing match it's simply a numbers thing just like all products. People die using toasters every day and they aren't regulated either. I'm not saying you are wrong in any sense it's just how manufacturers make decisions on the products they sell and make no mistake about it it's done on thousands of products. More kids die from falling into swimming pools and bath tubs drowning then were ever wounded by a defective 700, but we didn't stop building them either. You simply have no idea the amount of scrutiny the gun industry goes thru by the government so don't tell me they aren't aware of the issues. Remember the government is Remington's leading customer on law enforcement and military weapons. So wake up.

Contrary to your belief they modified the design several times that's why you could / could not open the bolt with the safety on and several other things and named triggers over the years. It is what it is and you and I didn't make any decisions on the product and I can tell you from my experience they weren't as defective as you seem to believe. We had more issues with soldered bolt handles than we ever did triggers. I'm not going to change your mind because one death is too many YOU'RE RIGHT and that we can agree on, but you're overlooking the fact thousands more folks have shot themselves putting a pistol in a holster or their pants than were killed by a bad safety on a 700. Those guns weren't all defective either but the folks got shot none the less and many of the companies got sued.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-14 AT 11:38AM (MST)[p]>I haven't defamed anyone, but rather
>have just stated my feelings
>like a lot of others,
>including some member right here,
>that there is a problem
>that needs fixing! What
>you have stated about the
>failure is exactly what I've
>been saying here and over
>on OYOA where YOU seemed
>to have appointed yourself as
>the expert on this and
>tried to drag me down
>like you're now doing on
>this thread! Yep, now
>you have come on here
>after I said I was
>done with your garbage over
>there to keep pounding away
>and extending a thread with
>YOUR expertise!
>
>The media hasn't made up the
>fact that there have been
>thousands of failures, a number
>of which have resulted in
>injuries and deaths when they
>were either pointed in the
>wrong direction at people or
>there were ricochets. The
>media was not the inventor
>who lost his Remington pension
>when he stated in a
>televised interview that everyone can
>watch that his invention was
>prone to problems and needed
>fixing! Nobody knows the
>percentages, as it's just a
>guessing game, but thousands upon
>thousands of people have reported
>misfires on rifles that had
>not been tinkered with.
>Many others on hunting websites
>have said their rifles misfired
>and most did not report
>the situation because they weren't
>aware of a potential problem.
>
>
>Yes, improper cleaning and tinkering with
>the trigger pull exacerbates the
>chance of a misfire and
>I've stated that more than
>once. I've also stated that
>the company is now saying
>that the settlement is not
>actually a recall. By
>going the route you mentioned
>they are saving a ton
>of money by not doing
>a recall because it greatly
>lessens the number of people
>that will know about it
>and get their rifles fixed.
> If there was oversight
>on gun manufacturers like there
>is on the car industry,
>which there isn't, I'd bet
>there would have been a
>big recall on this many
>moons ago even if it
>was forced on the company.
> All I'm interested in
>as an avid shooter/hunter for
>many decades is that the
>problem be fixed to cut
>way down on what has
>been happening for a long
>time. I sure won't
>apologize for that!

I have not claimed to be an expert on this and explained that in my post. It took me 20 minutes on the net to get the information. I was unaware of any rules prohibiting me from posting credible information taken from court documents as opposed to the sensationalized media puff you posted because you said you were done with this issue on another board. If such a rule exist please let me know. You seem to have taken out a vendetta against Remington and have extended it to anyone who doesn't support you. I still find it odd that someone who never has and never will own a Remington as you have stated has become so defensive against those whith differing views who actually have some skin in the game so to speak.
 
More wrong statements from you Boskee! Tosters ARE regulated like just about every other household appliance! Also, I didn't say the Government doesn't know about the problem. I stated they cannot force any recalls on guns. Please comprehend what I state and quit making up things because I also didn't say there weren't modifications to the assembly! I said the connector itself was left in it and I full well know about their very limited fix on a few of them when they made it so you could open the bolt with the gun on safe!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-14 AT 12:36PM (MST)[p]>>I haven't defamed anyone, but rather
>>have just stated my feelings
>>like a lot of others,
>>including some member right here,
>>that there is a problem
>>that needs fixing! What
>>you have stated about the
>>failure is exactly what I've
>>been saying here and over
>>on OYOA where YOU seemed
>>to have appointed yourself as
>>the expert on this and
>>tried to drag me down
>>like you're now doing on
>>this thread! Yep, now
>>you have come on here
>>after I said I was
>>done with your garbage over
>>there to keep pounding away
>>and extending a thread with
>>YOUR expertise!
>>
>>The media hasn't made up the
>>fact that there have been
>>thousands of failures, a number
>>of which have resulted in
>>injuries and deaths when they
>>were either pointed in the
>>wrong direction at people or
>>there were ricochets. The
>>media was not the inventor
>>who lost his Remington pension
>>when he stated in a
>>televised interview that everyone can
>>watch that his invention was
>>prone to problems and needed
>>fixing! Nobody knows the
>>percentages, as it's just a
>>guessing game, but thousands upon
>>thousands of people have reported
>>misfires on rifles that had
>>not been tinkered with.
>>Many others on hunting websites
>>have said their rifles misfired
>>and most did not report
>>the situation because they weren't
>>aware of a potential problem.
>>
>>
>>Yes, improper cleaning and tinkering with
>>the trigger pull exacerbates the
>>chance of a misfire and
>>I've stated that more than
>>once. I've also stated that
>>the company is now saying
>>that the settlement is not
>>actually a recall. By
>>going the route you mentioned
>>they are saving a ton
>>of money by not doing
>>a recall because it greatly
>>lessens the number of people
>>that will know about it
>>and get their rifles fixed.
>> If there was oversight
>>on gun manufacturers like there
>>is on the car industry,
>>which there isn't, I'd bet
>>there would have been a
>>big recall on this many
>>moons ago even if it
>>was forced on the company.
>> All I'm interested in
>>as an avid shooter/hunter for
>>many decades is that the
>>problem be fixed to cut
>>way down on what has
>>been happening for a long
>>time. I sure won't
>>apologize for that!
>
>I have not claimed to be
>an expert on this and
>explained that in my post.
>It took me 20 minutes
>on the net to get
>the information. I was unaware
>of any rules prohibiting me
>from posting credible information taken
>from court documents as opposed
>to the sensationalized media puff
>you posted because you said
>you were done with this
>issue on another board. If
>such a rule exist please
>let me know. You seem
>to have taken out a
>vendetta against Remington and have
>extended it to anyone who
>doesn't support you. I still
>find it odd that someone
>who never has and never
>will own a Remington as
>you have stated has become
>so defensive against those whith
>differing views who actually have
>some skin in the game
>so to speak.


You obviously can't comprehend a single thing said and didn't read and absorb what I stated. You continue to come up with stuff to argue about when all it takes is a few minutes to watch the interview with the inventor. Have you done that? It doesn't matter whether I own a Remington or not and it doesn't matter how much PR tax money we get from the sale of Remington products, which it sounds like you're more worried about than people getting shot on the other site posts! The inventor is the person you should believe and he even lost his Remington pension because he spoke out on it!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-14 AT 02:10PM (MST)[p]not really unless they have the underwriters laboratory emblem or ETU or some other regulatory authority and the dollar stores sell thousands of them w/o them. Go figure must have something to do with the cost. Are you saying our government would allow an appliance that's malfunctioned and burnt down thousands of homes and has wounded thousands and caused some deaths over the years to be sold?

Look I'll bet, that more kids have drowned in toilets over the last 2 decades than have suffered wounds or death from a Remington 700 malfunction. Should we ban toilets?


Have you ever seem what a military weapon goes thru in the testing process? if you had you'd know that they aren't shooting them off pillows and they're subjected to a lot of abuse. Imagine what happens when they pour mud into them and other substances? They have to be able to function under those conditions and when frozen and other things are done to them to try to make them malfunction. I guess you may be a little out of your element since CNBC didn't show how many times they passed in those types of tests. If they were that poor a design the military and law enforcement agencies simply wouldn't buy them because the end users may pay the ultimate price for a malfunction along with some other folks that may be with them.

They all have design flaws so wake up. I don't need to put words in your mouth you've done a pretty fair job of trying to show an argument that clearly doesn't fly that's why the government and law enforcement sector have been buying them for decades and have clearly been their choice.

All the government had to do is to refuse to buy them unless they modified their design.... guess what there's been a safety on the market that is a retro fit assembly for a Remington 700 that blocks off the firing pin, along with other remedies for years including other trigger designs and all the while the government kept buying the flawed weapon...... gee imagine that!

They could have easily chosen to have that safety or trigger put on the guns but yet didn't......I guess they may know more about the number of malfunctioning weapons than you and your crack MSNBC CNBC team did but then again the press has never been known to distort things in order to support an agenda have they.......... So how many times has that special ran on TV during the last few years????? It runs several times a week, in my market Why would they do that? They don't run any specials on pools or toilets and bath tub deaths or injuries or faulty toasters either WHY" Yet each of those is responsible for more many times more injuries and deaths annually!

Now who's not smart enough to understand they're being manipulated?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-14 AT 01:36PM (MST)[p]Topgun, I watched the documentary. I just didn't believe every aspect of it when CNBC put their spin on it. I also didn't go posting their trumped up story about this recall. In both cases I did a little fact finding on my own and made a decision based on the available resources at the time. You should try that sometime you may find it enlightening. Instead of arguing to prove CNBC correct you should Google and read the settlement documents, they're online. I nor any other poster on either thread I have read has stated the malfunction can't happen. I have looked into the probabilities. Your attitude that anyone who disagrees with you on the subject is either ill informed or doesn't understand is ignorant to the fact that others with the same or more information than you have managed to draw a different conclusion. You seem to be agitated that everyone didn't jump on here calling for the folks at Remington to be burned at the stake. I also find the exploitation of a 99 year old man by CNBC in an effort to sell their version of the story appalling. I have a hard time believing if everything Walker stated in the documentary was true he would have lost his pension. Even if he did violate a non disclosure agreement if everything he said were true that would be a tough fight for Remington at a time when they didn't need more headaches.
 
I guess we'll just have to let everyone decide what they will do if they have one, but I wish you would state facts in your posts and not trumped up stuff like you accuse me of. The stats and figures you two are talking about and saying CNBC used to go after and crucify Remington were ones that the Remington team themselves came up with! All they were was a guestimate of the numbers that might be out there and go off unexpectedly. How they could even come up with any number is beyond me because there have been thousands of misfires that weren't even reported to them, so obviously their stats will make it look like there's a much smaller chance of a misfire. Also, the stats on the documentary were taken right out of the Remington files, but I guess that wouldn't help your argument would it?! At least both of you now say there is a problem at least to some degree, but for the life of me I don't see how one of you could come up with those comments to try and dispel or dispute the actual statements Walker made in his interview. Anyway, the only reason I even responded again here was a post I read that just went up on OYOA a little while ago. I hope this will show that "just maybe" the problems with both the Remington triggers does not have to be caused by crud or some nimrod tinkering with the mechanisms at home. Here is the post:

On Black Friday I got up early and made it to the Wal Mart in Laurel Montana. In the back room was my new model 700 adl 223. Well a few minutes later we went home together.

A few minutes ago I contacted the Remington recall number and spoke to a nice young lady. I gave her my serial number and it had been in for the recall in September. I then asked her if it was normal for the firing pin to release if I lifted the bolt handle and then let it down but not move the bolt back...........There was a long pause She transferred me to the service dept. I spoke to a guy "also professional" and told him of the problem. He said send it back that's not right. I asked him if a Timney trigger would fix the issue. He said yes that should take care of it. On a side note I asked him if the adl synthetic stock should be free floated. He said, no not on a adl the stock will not free float correctly and suggested a aftermarket stock if I wanted it free floated. I thanked him for his candid answers and then concluded the call.

So the moral of my story is you can follow the recall and still have a possible problem. At this point I think a Timney trigger is in my future.

I also want to thank the employee's of Remington for their help.
 
I used the numbers you provided and posted information taken from the settlement documents of the case. If you have any accurate factual information to the contrary of what I have posted please share it. It just so happens I have some Walker trigger rifles so I am always interested in factual, pertinent information.
 
>I used the numbers you provided
>and posted information taken from
>the settlement documents of the
>case. If you have any
>accurate factual information to the
>contrary of what I have
>posted please share it. It
>just so happens I have
>some Walker trigger rifles so
>I am always interested in
>factual, pertinent information.


If you don't consider the memo from Walker to Remington saying to change the design to what they finally did in 2006 or the information he stated in his interview to be factual information, then I give up! He was very lucid into his late 90s well after that interview and just died at 101 last year. Where did I post any numbers, unless you're referring to Remington file memos that were introduced where they were only "guessing" how many rifles they may have produced with a defect by comparing it to what complaints had actually been filed? I believe that's the number you and Boskee refer to in order to say it's such a small amount in the overall picture. That number certainly must be low when so many thousands of people have come on the internet over the years just like one_dryboot on this site, as well as others on MM and a bunch on rokslide to name just a couple sites I visit where members said their rifle did the same thing, but they didn't report it to Remington because the problem has been kept quiet. You can keep harping about the media, but what they called a recall isn't because they screwed up using that word. It should have been one, but Remington again won't admit anything and chose to take the course of a settlement to get out of Dodge as cheaply as they can while now being able to say that they have taken care of the situation. By doing what they did only a fraction of the rifles out there will be fixed because millions of people that have one won't have a clue that this settlement came about and they basically have to join it to have the repairs made. That was a slick move by Remington and I'm sure there will be some bonuses to the top brass come Christmas!
 
You still have yet to post anything that would refute what I have posted. You are overlooking factual data to further promote your crusade. I don't hold out any hope of you comprehending anything contrary to what you have led yourself to believe but just to clarify my position I will spell it out in simple mechanical and legal terms.

The Walker trigger has a part between the part you put your finger on to make the gun go bang and the part that drops out of the way allowing the firing pin to move forward. This intermediate part is called the trigger bar. The trigger bar is held in place by spring pressure. Without magic, voodoo or the ability to change the state of matter the trigger bar will keep the gun from going bang until the trigger is pulled as long as it is in its intended place. The problem occurs when the trigger bar is not where its supposed to be. This can happen if a trigger is improperly modified. The only other way for it to be out of its intended place is for the spring pressure to be overridden in some way. This can happen if there is an obstruction between the trigger bar and the part you put your finger on i.e. dirt, lint, etc. It can also happen if the spring pressure is overridden by a force great enough to counter act the force of the spring. Obviously if the spring breaks it will no longer hold the trigger bar in place either. There are millions of walker triggers that have never had this happen. Therefore a properly maintained trigger that has not been modified has a good spring with proper pressure and is free of obstructions will function as intended. A product functioning as intended that does not cause a safety risk is not a liability for the producing company. It is not until the trigger functions improperly that a problem arises. There is no, none, zero evidence I can find that suggests a Walker trigger has performed other than intended under these parameters. If there is an incident where a misfire happens and the trigger functions as intended that would give the company liability. For this to happen the owner of the offending trigger would need to prove there was not a foreign obstruction and the spring was at proper pressure and had not been overridden by an outside force. This would be nearly impossible to prove. It makes no difference who said what on a TV show. There is a class action lawsuit that spells this out in legal terms if you want to read it.

What this still means to Remington owners is if they want to join in the suit, once settled, Remington will replace some triggers to keep their customers happy and so they don't have to make the same liability argument lined out above every time a malfunction happens as its cheaper to pay people to put in triggers than to pay lawyers and expert witnesses. What it means to Remington haters is they can publicize the partial misleading facts of the situation to push an agenda.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-14 AT 12:31PM (MST)[p]Just got off the phone with remington...Per customer service there is NO new recall. I was told that in April of this yr remington recalled the x=pro trigger and only that trigger. Was told that they WILL NOT replace or reimburse anyone for triggers that do not fall into the original recall...
 
Topgun I didn't use any figures because I don't need them since my experience was first hand. You on the other hand seem to be a bit confused. When you post up that crud and debris aren't issues regarding that trigger it only shows your lack of understanding about it's operation.

Only a novice would post that debris and crud won't effect the operation of that trigger or any other for that regard. In fact crud and debris along with improper adjustment at the factory or by BUBBA are some of the KEY ELEMENTS that will cause an unsafe condition with that weapon. A condition that may cause that firearm to FIRE / malfunction simply by opening or closing the bolt, jarring the weapon or touching the trigger. This is a still an underlying fundamental with each design alteration Remington made to that weapon.


It's one of the reasons why many trigger design's are a housed or enclosed design like the 700's just to prevent things from impeding function and why many gun makers have gone to designs where they can't be adjusted.

The tolerances in the 700 actually are very fundamental in actually preventing issues with that action. Any debris or improper adjustment can actually alter the tension and contact area resulting in a malfunction. Triggers are built with parts and parts even though manufactured in expensive machines can have variances in their dimensions. It's why all triggers aren't the same and with this design and many others each one requires manual adjustment.

This places more weight on why proper adjustment's or trigger function are key elements in gun safety. This is why I said take your gun to a qualified gunsmith or send it to the factory if it qualifies to make sure it's done right for the owners peace of mind.

It's important to understand that the stickum fix and Walkers one piece part essentially did the same thing and eliminated the chance debris could get in between two parts, yet couldn't allow for discrepancies in part dimensions. It's also why both still require proper adjustment to work in a safe manner. Proper adjustment results in a much safer more dependable weapon.

Now you can go on with your witchhunt or you can try to understand what I posted and let it sink in.

I'm done on this thread and we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-14 AT 05:09PM (MST)[p]>Topgun I didn't use any figures
>because I don't need them
>since my experience was first
>hand. You on the other
>hand seem to be a
>bit confused. When you post
>up that crud and debris
>aren't issues regarding that trigger
>it only shows your lack
>of understanding about it's operation.

***I know exactly how the trigger works and have stated numerous times that the problem is exacerbated by what you stated. If that word is too big for you to comprehend, and it must be, then look it up!!!
>
>
>Only a novice would post that
>debris and crud won't effect
>the operation of that trigger
>or any other for that
>regard. In fact crud and
>debris along with improper adjustment
>at the factory or by
>BUBBA are some of the
>KEY ELEMENTS that will cause
>an unsafe condition with that
>weapon. A condition that may
>cause that firearm to FIRE
>/ malfunction simply by opening
>or closing the bolt, jarring
>the weapon or touching the
>trigger. This is a still
>an underlying fundamental with each
>design alteration Remington made to
>that weapon.

***No novice here and I have also never said that what you stated above doesn't exacerbate the problem. Geez, there's that big word again, LOL!


>It's one of the reasons why
>many trigger design's are a
>housed or enclosed design like
>the 700's just to prevent
>things from impeding function and
>why many gun makers have
>gone to designs where they
>can't be adjusted.

***No kidding, as I would never have guessed that in a million years! That was just being sarcastic since you sound like you think I'm ten years old and have never held a firearm! In fact, I have two safes full!

>The tolerances in the 700 actually
>are very fundamental in actually
>preventing issues with that action.
>Any debris or improper adjustment
>can actually alter the tension
>and contact area resulting in
>a malfunction. Triggers are built
>with parts and parts even
>though manufactured in expensive machines
>can have variances in their
>dimensions. It's why all triggers
>aren't the same and with
>this design and many others
>each one requires manual adjustment.


***Thank you, but I knew that too!
>
>
>This places more weight on why
>proper adjustment's or trigger function
>are key elements in gun
>safety. This is why I
>said take your gun to
>a qualified gunsmith or send
>it to the factory if
>it qualifies to make sure
>it's done right for the
>owners peace of mind.

***Great advice! Seems as that is sort of what I've been saying too, duh, but I think ALL should be looked at and fixed!

> It's important to understand that
>the stickum fix and Walkers
>one piece part essentially did
>the same thing and eliminated
>the chance debris could get
>in between two parts, yet
>couldn't allow for discrepancies in
>part dimensions. It's also why
>both still require proper adjustment
>to work in a safe
>manner. Proper adjustment results in
>a much safer more dependable
>weapon.

*** Can't argue with that last statement at all!

>Now you can go on with
>your witchhunt or you can
>try to understand what I
>posted and let it sink
>in.


***No witchhunt here at all and no need for any "sinking in"! I'm just asking for people to read the memo Walker wrote telling Remington, his employer, that the design needed changing, as well as listen to his interview where he said the same thing. Finally, in 2006 they put a trigger block in identical to what he wanted decades ago. Now that one is definitely under a recall because of what I would consider poor manufacturing quality control procedures. I'm sure Remington has a legitimate excuse of why they didn't get that one right though, LOL!

I'm done on this thread
>and we'll just have to
>agree to disagree.

***Good, and if you and 6speed don't feel an inventor should be listened to, then I feel sorry for anyone that is around either of you if you have any Remington with that trigger in it and it goes bang when it's not supposed to. Happy holidays to the both of you!

Addendum: ***My comments to the statements made by Boskee.
 
Ho Ho Ho you didn't know, but you sure did a lot of agreeing with those of us who actually did in the end. So the bubblegum / Walker fix wasn't the issue and you agreed! How could that be he's an inventor? Now you're down to it being a QC issue and guess what they all have that issue!

I didn't have to do any research on the subject but then I'll leave that to your imagination....... By the way real classy making the misfire comment. Guess the grey matter was probably about shot by then trying to keep up with us and that other thread on some other site. Happy and a safe holiday to you too.
 
>Ho Ho Ho you didn't know,
>but you sure did a
>lot of agreeing with those
>of us who actually did
>in the end. So the
>bubblegum / Walker fix wasn't
>the issue and you agreed!
>How could that be he's
>an inventor? Now you're down
>to it being a QC
>issue and guess what they
>all have that issue!
>
>I didn't have to do any
>research on the subject but
>then I'll leave that to
>your imagination....... By the way
>real classy making the misfire
>comment. Guess the grey matter
>was probably about shot by
>then trying to keep up
>with us and that other
>thread on some other site.
>Happy and a safe holiday
>to you too.


Hopefully that IS your last post because it was even dumber than all the rest of them put together and I never thought that would have been possible, LOL! You really don't have ANY reading comprehension and that's a shame! Glad I won't be hunting near you two and your defective 700s!
 
> Glad I won't be
>hunting near you two
>and your defective 700s!

That feeling is completely mutual. In fact you should limit your hunting to out of rifle shot distances from any of the 7.8 million other Remington 700s as well! Good luck.
 
>
>> Glad I won't be
>>hunting near you two
>>and your defective 700s!
>
>That feeling is completely mutual. In
>fact you should limit your
>hunting to out of rifle
>shot distances from any of
>the 7.8 million other Remington
>700s as well! Good luck.
>


I can tell you one thing for certain and that is that none of the 5 or 6 people I hunt with use a 700 that hasn't had an aftermarket trigger put in it or they wouldn't be hunting with me. Good luck to you and happy holidays and I think maybe this thread should die right here!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-14 AT 11:03PM (MST)[p]Like I said you must have got confused between different threads on different sites and different replies to others on this and the other forum. Don't fret we know you don't have a MENSA card in your wallet. If you're that afraid of Remington's you better not go into the field to hunt ever again because no matter which way you turn you're going to be outnumbered and running into one. Funny how the biggest selling firearms in the world just keeps kicking your sorry azz no matter which way your turn. You won't be safe in any terrain or any state from this day forward....... I guess that old strength in numbers thing will most likely have you huddled behind some rock waiting for darkness to go to camp.. See if you admitted the truth you'd know they're as safe as just about any brand out there........as long as YOU don't start adjusting things then the other guys at risk with any brand you're carrying! :)

I guess the moral to the story is make sure of your information before you get on a hunting website posting up misinformation about firearms from questionable sources. Hint verify any information you get off CNBC & MSNBC & NBC about firearms. While I'm sure CNBC appreciates your viewership just you watching isn't helping their ratings! But you're doing wonders boosting the anti's fear mongering and rhetoric!
 
"Robb---It is a Sako Forester and hasn't had anything done to it since the day it was manufactured. I also have a Sako Finnbear in 30-06, have never owned a Remington product, and neither did my Dad, who died on 9/11/11 five days before he turned 89"

Thanks for the follow-up Mike.

Those pix of your Dad's rifle are priceless.

Happy 2015!

Thanks!

Robb
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

Buck
received_3157262317864012.jpeg
D4809792-6AD7-47B9-9CDD-E5393A446EDF.jpeg
DSCN2581.JPG
957E1D7D-87A9-4BE3-99EE-02E48E81B77F.png
Image from iOS (1).jpg
741E77AF-4D08-43B0-B5CC-1B91EC1A7798.jpeg
Resized_20201202_074917[17299] copy.jpg
IMG_5190.jpeg
IMG_6339.jpg
Trophy Archery Buck
Awesome Trophy Bull
Back
Top Bottom