Many NM elk ranches open to you!!!

[kysersosay]

I got into this conversation in another post, and realized that too many NM elk hunters are not aware of the hundreds of thousands of acres of great elk hunting that is available to them with nothing more than a little leg work. So I decided to condense our discussion and repost it here.

Under the NM landowner (ELK) system, most of the very large ranches choose for their landowner authorizations (tags) to be RO (ranch only) and thus they are only valid on their deeded acres, and they do not have to allow public hunters on their property to hunt. A greater number of landowners decide to receive UW (unit wide) tags that are valid anywhere in the GMU, and in doing so, sign an agreement opening their deeded acres to public hunters during all of the elk hunts for the license year. Many of these ranches are between 500 and 5,000 acres and often have some fantastic elk hunting on them.

To find the list of private ranches that are signed up UW (unit wide) go to the NMDGF website
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/

go to HUNTING (picture of a mule deer buck) and then under "private land hunting" go to

"2008-09 E-plus landowner list"
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/recreation/hunting/documents/ELK_RANCH_LIST.pdf

Apart from making public the list of landowners, their acreage, GMU, and contact information, the NM Game and Fish does not do a great job of letting public hunters know about this opportunity. In contrast, an antelope hunter who draws a NM tag and is assigned to a ranch can go to the same page and find actual maps of the ranch he'll be hunting. I've been told the Maim and Squish is working on getting maps built and posted for UW elk ranches, but I've heard that for a couple of years already so, I'm not holding my breath.

Right now, it takes some leg work to find these places. I recommend printing out the E-plus list for your unit when you come to scout, and bringing a BLM 1:100,000 LAND STATUS MAP that shows well the private land versus the USFS or BLM or State land. I first find a bull or a spot that should hold one, and then find out if the ranch is UW. I think the agreement requires landowners to allow hunters to scout the property 48 hours prior to their hunt, but it may be more or less, I'd ask the Game and Fish on that one.

Most people that look at the E-plus list are simply interested in acquiring the landowner tags that are given to the landowner, but I guess one could also call the landowners and ask them about their ranches, and where they are at. Very many of these landowners that sell their tags have one provision, that the hunters (who buy their tags) use them anywhere BUT their property. Often times the landowner sells his tags to an outfitter who hunts the ranch and public land. I wouldn't expect a landowner to be too entirely cooperative in ENCOURAGING hunters to come and hunt their property, but if they are signed up UW unit wide, neither they nor their outfitter can keep you from hunting there, and if anyone tries in any way to keep you from it, call the Game Warden right away and let them know.

Some units have better private land opportunities than others. Just glancing at the list- GMU 15 and 34 are two of the major elk units that come to mind as units I'd really try to use this information while I was scouting pre-season. I've hunted GMU15 and hunted BLM and Private ranches in the periphery of the US Forest and was into some gigantic bulls with few other hunters to hassle me or the bulls. NM requires landowners to include their name and contact information in order for a "No Trespassing" sign to be considered a legal posting, and it's usually not that hard to find the name of the ranch or the owner of a ranch from the front gate or mailbox. If all else fails, ask around. For those guys who put the time in pre-season to scout, if they had the list of landowners and a good BLM map that outlines well the private land versus the USFS or BLM or State land, opportunities can be found.

As for me and my motives for putting this out?. I think the better hunters distribute themselves throughout the unit, the better hunting experience we all will have. Plus, the reason these landowner's tags are valid for the whole unit is because of the trade off the public hunters are supposed to get back in the hundreds of thousands of acres that are opened up to them to hunt. I just think we public hunters ought to be utilizing what is supposed to be our end of the bargain.

I hope there are some of you that did not know about this and who use this information to find some incredible bulls this fall. I'd like to hear any feedback if this was helpful to anyone, or at least bump the post so others will see it.

 

[icemannm]

kysersosay

this is a very interesting post and has opened my eyes.i had heard about the (elk) system but never knew how it worked.i will be checking into this now that i know how it works.a guy can never have to many honey holes.thanks for a great post.

iceman

 

[theplatoon]

good info for NM Hunters...but I believe there are some rules that complicate it for a hunter to go into private land even though we have every legal right to hunt their land. For instance you can hunt their land but they do not have to unlock any of their gates for improved access for the hunter, they can keep their gates locked and you can cross the fence but you are walking from then on. Even if you kill an elk in their property they do not have to open the gates for you to retrieve your elk. I know here in Silver City a rancher has land that can be hunted for deer but he keeps the gate locked and there is nothing a hunter can do about it. It all sounds good to go into private land and hunt but sometime you run into ranchers that can make it a living hell hunting on their property and that alone can ruin a hunt. As always check the rules and read the fine print before you go into someone's private property because there are a few ranchers out there that will try anything to keep you off their land even though they signed the contract....not all ranchers are this way but like the saying goes... one bad apple....
good luck on all your hunts this year!!!!

 

[nmelktrout]

Great post Kysersosay,

I think more people should take advantage of this acces. But, make absolutely certain that you know which private land you do have legal access to as you can see from the list that many units contain a mix of UW and RO (ranch only) tags (and we all know what happens if you have the wrong gps coordinates). And, just because there is not a "no tresspassing" sign on a fence does not mean that it can be legally crossed. Tresspassing signs get torn down quite frequently and the "I didn't see any tresspassing signs" excuse will not get you out of a citation. Especially when the landowner shows up to the criminal hearing with pictures and provides testimony to the effect that it was posted until someone tore down his signs for the hundredth time. Basically, if you are not 100% positive about the status of the land you are about to cross onto, and/or don't have the maps and documentation to back it up, do not cross the fence.

Just be cautious and respectful of property boundaries as crossing the wrong fence could sour your hunt, as well as that of someone who did go through the hard work of gaining access. More importantly, tresspassing makes landowners even more likely to want to keep everyone (us) off their land and less likely to sign on with access programs. I guess I see it as one of the many reasons that the good old days of driving up to a ranch and asking for permission to hunt are gone...

Here's a picture of a nice bull that was poached out from under me two years ago on private land by a couple of tresspassing idiots that could have gotten access by simply asking for permission but decided to cross two posted fencelines without first doing so...and btw, the F&G Officer did not buy the aforementioned excuse. I was watching and waiting for this bull to give me a clean shot at the edge of a park when 11 shots rang out...The LO now only allows family member to hunt his land and no longer provides access to his ranch to those who ask. Bummer... and it still (obviously) leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[kysersosay]

Thanks NMelktrout for adding to the discussion. You're absolutley right and I hope I didn't imply I supported hunters running willy-nilly around the country side in the hopes that the private land they are on is a UW ranch. Just the opposite.

I think it's important to note that just because a ranch is signed up UW and allows you access, doesn't mean we shouldn't all be on our best "hunter" behavior and act respecfully and leave a good impression. I kinda view the UW elk system NM has as a chance for us to go back to the "good-ol-days" of asking to hunt and being invited back if we don't screw it up.

 

[lchcguide]

I always say ask first even though you have the privilege to hunt there. It is always nice to know who is on your property at all times. I hunted some of this land in discussion last year and obtained permission first.

A little common courtesy goes a long ways. Our hunting party offered to take time out of our hunt to help the rancher out. He thanked us for the offer, but told us to enjoy our time and we were welcome back any time. We now have a nice little honey hole to hunt each time we draw the unit. With a little work and common courtesy I think that many hunters can have a great experience with most landowners. Not all, but a good majority.

 

[tsquared]

Here is what I found in the 2008-2009 Big Game proclamation about access to UW ranches. Even though the ranches are open to hunting common courtesy and for safety purposes I would contact the landowner.

http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publications/documents/rib/2008/BG2008/index.html

If the GMU has huntable public lands, landowners within the COER
(Core occupied Elk Area) have the option each season to sign up
their deeded land as unit wide. Unit-wide properties are required to allow free, unrestricted and equal access, including vehicle access, to any legally licensed person to their entire ranch during each public elk hunt in that GMU.

 

[cocinaelktaco]

Be carefull how you read into this.

Ranchers have to give an access point into the ranch with vehicles. they do not have to allow ATVs or vehicles off the road for retrieval, and can close roads to vehicle traffic just like the forest does. in some instances they may want to do this to help make it more primitive or perhaps make it more of a challenge, or to keep you from spooking the cattle.

I think that horses are allowed on most of them, That would certainly be cool!

Regardless, it is a great oppurtunity for those that put in the correct effort, and proper sportsmanship would dictate a call to the ranch to tell them who you are and ask about the access points, then a great thing would be to ask them if they would mind if you gave your phone number for emergency contact. most ranchers are very family oriented and respect that type of approach as respectable, and responsible, who knows it might even get you a little extra tip on where to start !

It's always better to work with them rather than tell them what your rights are.

 

[luckless]

As I've stated in other posts, I have the capability to display land ownership lines on topo and aerial imagery. PM me if you want some assistance with identifying ranches worth calling...

DC

 

[pinemesa]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-08 AT 09:30AM (MST)[p]Luckless,

I sent you a PM



pinemesa

 

[mozey]

That is some great info that I was not previously aware of--but gotta concur with those that are saying it would still be a good idea to contact and work with the landowner, for the sake of courtesy if nothing else...

 

[MOUNTAINRUNR]

I printed out the E-PLUS LO list which is great amd I have the BLM maps that show BLM and private land but how do you tell who owns each specific place. Are there plot maps that shows land ownership. I plan on arriving 5 days before my hunt starts and would like to contact people before hand.

 

[WapitiBob]

You can call the land owners and ask them to send you a boundary map for their ranch. Good luck with that.

or
You can fax a "public information" request to the Albq HQ. listing the ranches that you would like a map for. Then they'll send the request to their lawyers, let you know if they will accommodate your request, then tell you how much $$$ it will cost. After all that, IF they have a map they'll send it to you. They told me they may not have a map or it may be 20 years old.
They didn't have a very good answer to my question regarding the requirement that LO's submit accurate maps and update them as changes are made, even though it's a requirement of the LO tag program.

If the ranches were that good, the tags would be ranch only.

 

[steamboat_bill]

Is it true that ranches can enroll only a portion of the ranch in the L.O. tag program? If this is true, how do you know which part is open to the public?

 

[WapitiBob]

best thing to do is call albq. HQ. and ask them.

 

[kysersosay]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-15-08 AT 09:21PM (MST)[p]
Like I said- right now there is no easy way to figure out what land is open to you- and it's become clear that some landowners do their best (within the system) to convolute the issue and make it a pain to figure out.

That's exactly why I posted this- as I think we NM public hunters should be working to force the issue with the Game and Fish and the landowners.

I've explained how I think it works the best- find a spot that you want to hunt, if it happens to be private, dig deeper to find out if it's a UW ranch. dig deeper and locate the boundaries. Right now the only way to find these places is by being there in the field and doing your due diligence. If it's too much of a pain- just plant yourself in the middle of the USFS land with everyone else. I've been able to figure these ranches out pretty well, and once a landowner realizes I'm for real they usually just map it out for me. Many ranchers are actually a pleasure to deal with and meet their commitments to the system with a good ol' country sense of honor.

Oh and P.S.- I disagree with the point made that these ranches are not worth hunting or else they would have been signed up "ranch only". In order for a elk ranch to make MORE money from staying ranch only- they have to be large enough to manage their own elk herd and thus provide better quality bulls than the whole of the unit. Many ranches are too small to do this and thus the tag brings in more money when it's valid for the whole unit. many of these ranches provide some excellent hunting opportunities with fewer hunters to contend with than the neighboring public ground.

It would be an awesome system if it worked as it was intended to. Wouldn't hurt if the NMDGF (Wildlife Management Division 505-476-8038 Chief-R.J. Kirkpatrick; Private Land Programs-Cal Baca; Big Game Management-Darrel Weybright) were made to feel the pressure from public hunters such as yourselves to make this information accessible.

P.S. I'd like to make one more point about this- when some of these more troublesome landowners (that are creating all of the war-stories) are confronted with the reality of the agreement they sign every year, many decide to switch back to RO-Ranch only tags to avoid the "headaches" of public hunters on their place. I think that's great too, for every one that does- that means one? two? three? four? fewer outfitted hunters (and their posses) competing with you and I for public bulls. Like I said, I think the NM landowner system is a good one if it was working like it was intended.

 

[tsquared]

I have seen UW ranches posted with no hunting signs. If you don't know any better you would go right by without a thought. Like was said earlier there is some good hunting land on these ranches. You would be surprised at the habitat available to you. This is the way the everyday joe can play the system like some of the landowners are doing. With a little bit of leg work and using the COER list it may pay off for you.