Mature mule deer????

JT

Active Member
Messages
127
Ok, just wanted to get your opinion...
I've shot quite a few deer in the age class of 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 years old, when even I hunt mule deer my number one goal is to shoot what I'd call a mature mule deer, above average antler mass, deep forks, and a big mature body after that I personally think that genetics take over. I think that a mule deer peaks out at 7 to 8 years old but as we all know it can be pretty tough finding one of that age class. So my question...is 4 to 5 year old buck considered to be a mature deer or does a deer have to reach that magical age class of 7 to 8????
 
>4-5 are definitely "mature", 6-7 is
>"prime".


??, well put, I like that explanation!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 07:14PM (MST)[p]Most Muley bucks can peak at 5 1/2. For the next 4 or 5 years antler size can be slightly larger or smaller depending on forage and stress. There have been a lot of studies on this.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19
>AT 07:14?PM (MST)

>
>Most Muley bucks can peak at
>5 1/2. For the
>next 4 or 5 years
>antler size can be slightly
>larger or smaller depending on
>forage and stress. There have
>been a lot of studies
>on this.


Wow, very interesting, not sure if I'd heard this before, very cool, thanks for the post!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19
>AT 07:14?PM (MST)

>
>Most Muley bucks can peak at
>5 1/2. For the
>next 4 or 5 years
>antler size can be slightly
>larger or smaller depending on
>forage and stress. There have
>been a lot of studies
>on this.

This is spot on. In my 40 year of shed hunting I have been lucky enough to have collected multiple years of antlers from a few bucks that lived to 10+ This is exactly the pattern of antler growth I have found. I will add that bucks may have a regressed set of antler at an advanced age but it is all most always the last set antlers that they grow.
 
That was the old days, with the new opportunity hunting the game and fish dept. want you to think a 3 1/2 year old is a wise old mature buck. In fact I will gareentee that if you take a 150 to 160 class buck into any game and fish dept they would tell you , that is a great buck.
 
I arrowed a buck above timberline one year in CO. It had a dime sized ear tag from the CDOW. Per the regs, I contacted them and gave them the info stamped into the tag, I learned quite a bit on the buck from the biologist who captured him. He was captured and tested for CWD five years earlier......about 70 miles away on the winter range. When captured, he was aged at 4.5 years old and, according to the biologist, was about a 175? buck.

At 9.5 years old (when I arrowed him) he was definitely regressed and past his prime interns of antler development. His antlers were regressed (heavy, wide, short points), and his teeth were extremely worn.....he would not have made another winter, IMO.

Based on all of this info, bucks are probably in their prime (antler development) from 4.5-7.5 in many areas, IMO only.

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
I'm pretty sure one of the biggest bucks shot in Utah this year, was 5 1/2 years old, 40 inches wide, and green scored 252. He put on about 50 inches of growth this last year. The hunter has sheds from the past 3 years.

Lots of things need to line up to have a buck like this. Genetics, age, nutrition,etc.

I doubt this buck would have been bigger next year IMO.
 
>I shot a eight year old
>on the book cliffs according
>to my tooth aging through
>the Dwr


That's awesome!! It would be really interesting to see him at 5, wonder how much he added or even loss in horn growth. I'm slowing becoming convinced that after 5 a buck may or may not be any better as far as age go?s, it's more about genetics, water and feed.
 
I'd have to agree with hawkbill!

3-1/2 in TARDville has became the New Mature!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>I'd have to agree with hawkbill!
>
>
>3-1/2 in TARDville has became the
>New Mature!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

Lol.... maybe so, but would you consider a 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 year old buck a mature buck??? Or do you only hold out for that 6-7 year old buck?? Can you really tell the difference???
 
I'd seen these pictures a while back and I've always felt like they were interesting to look at when talking about deer age and antler growth. All of these deer were lab aged. (For some reason I couldn't get the screen shots to upload here, so I just have the link for the pictures.)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhKnY7ZDbrL/

226" at 3.5 years old is just plain crazy!


I'd say most deer start hitting their prime for antler growth around 4.5 and then for the next few years their antlers will be similar sized but a little smaller or bigger depending on health and feed conditions year to year. It seems like around 7.5 or 8.5 age starts to take its toll and the antlers start regressing. If you shoot a buck that old I'd definitely say your in the minority. They really don't make it that far all that often.
 
Well JT!

I'd say 4-1/2 & Up would be hard to Guesstimate on Exact age!

Like I said:In this State a 3-1/2 Year Old Buck is Considered Mature,SAD,But True!

We only seen one Buck in the Book Cliffs Last Year that I'd Call Mature!

Maybe Past Mature!:D

He Was the Only Buck We seen that had a Roman Nose!

Anybody old enough around here to Even know what a Roman Nose is?



>>I'd have to agree with hawkbill!
>>
>>
>>3-1/2 in TARDville has became the
>>New Mature!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
>
>Lol.... maybe so, but would you
>consider a 4 1/2
>to 5 1/2 year
>old buck a mature buck???
> Or do you only
>hold out for that 6-7
>year old buck?? Can
>you really tell the difference???
>











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>I shot a eight year old
>on the book cliffs according
>to my tooth aging through
>the Dwr

Can we see a picture of this buck for reference?
 
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

Interesting when a wise one gets to leave his legacy in your garage, When they regress they don't go down like many seem to think, they are still damn fine bucks, generally.

23746090.jpg



Here is a long running of one we called wide guy. About 40 wide in his prime. I passed on him at 75 yards while he was wearing his last set, still about 36" wide. One of the toughest passes I have ever made.



1873268983694081c4380a00fz.jpg


71426407686299712052ab8d72z.jpg
 
>That was the old days, with
>the new opportunity hunting the
>game and fish dept. want
>you to think a 3
>1/2 year old is a
> wise old mature buck.
>In fact I will gareentee
>that if you take a
>150 to 160 class buck
>into any game and fish
>dept they would tell you
>, that is a great
>buck.


Killed a 163 on a terrible general unit 3 years ago. Sent the teeth in to a lab. Buck was 5.5 years old. Score doesn't always reflect age.
 
>
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

>My current situation precludes me from
>caring about your opinion but
>go ahead and give voice
>to it anyway...
>
>Interesting when a wise one gets
>to leave his legacy in
>your garage, When they regress
>they don't go down like
>many seem to think, they
>are still damn fine bucks,
>generally.
>
>
23746090.jpg

>
>
>Here is a long running of
>one we called wide guy.
> About 40 wide in
>his prime. I passed
>on him at 75 yards
>while he was wearing his
>last set, still about 36"
>wide. One of the
>toughest passes I have ever
>made.
>
>
>
>
1873268983694081c4380a00fz.jpg

>
>
71426407686299712052ab8d72z.jpg


Wow, I bet, the one that you was after must of been one hell of a buck!
 
So if he was 4 years old when you found the first anter that would put him in his prime at 5 and 6 as those were definitely his best years.



Jake H.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
I have got some sheds like squirrel, but have never posted pic on this site. PM me an Email if some one wants to post them.
 
7-8 are usually the best years of a muley bucks life. Can you find deer that go downhill after five? You bet. Can you find deer that get even better at 9 years? You bet. Don't base all of your harvest decisions off of one buck you followed for a few years.

Deer get injured or sick and the after effects can regress their development for the rest of their lives. Broken legs, parasites, fighting wounds, harsh conditions, and damaged feet, can all change a deer's development course permanently. I have noticed deer we have seen go down hill when they got killed and we looked at their jaws very often had evidence of broken or missing teeth. I think when this happens deer often regress and never come back.

All this considered if you are managing a mule deer herd for exceptional antler development you probably should not be shooting 5 year olds unless they are obviously something you don't want breeding a doe.

If you are seeing a 5 year old that is the very best buck you have in the area let him have a chance at being the very best 6 year old you see next year. Hopefully he gets some loving and in a few years you start seeing better deer all around.
 
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

To fill in some back ground I am not the most knowledgeable source for wide guy's story Most of those sheds were my friends, I gave him mine to round out his historical collection.

I believe his best set was never found so there is a missing year after the huge white single righty. Pics of him wearing them show it to be his best year by far and right at the magical 40" mark, hence the name.

He hung with "stickers" who also died of old age and who "we" also had most of his sheds and tons of pics of. Stickers was much friendlier than wide guy.

And yes, I gave my stickers sheds to him as well as his dead head which I found.
90858img5128.jpg
 
>So if he was 4 years
>old when you found the
>first anter that would put
>him in his prime at
>5 and 6 as those
>were definitely his best years.
>
>
>
>
>Jake H.
>
458738e374dfcb10.jpg



31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...


Only if you are counting his best as a net typpy Years 7 and 8 blew everything else out of the water, and 9 was no slouch either
 
>7-8 are usually the best years
>of a muley bucks life.
> Can you find deer
>that go downhill after five?
> You bet. Can
>you find deer that get
>even better at 9 years?
> You bet. Don't
>base all of your harvest
>decisions off of one buck
>you followed for a few
>years.
>
>Deer get injured or sick and
>the after effects can regress
>their development for the rest
>of their lives. Broken
>legs, parasites, fighting wounds, harsh
>conditions, and damaged feet, can
>all change a deer's development
>course permanently. I have noticed
>deer we have seen go
>down hill when they got
>killed and we looked at
>their jaws very often had
>evidence of broken or missing
>teeth. I think when
>this happens deer often regress
>and never come back.
>
>All this considered if you are
>managing a mule deer herd
>for exceptional antler development you
>probably should not be shooting
>5 year olds unless they
>are obviously something you don't
>want breeding a doe.
>
>If you are seeing a 5
>year old that is the
>very best buck you have
>in the area let him
>have a chance at being
>the very best 6 year
>old you see next year.
> Hopefully he gets some
>loving and in a few
>years you start seeing better
>deer all around.

Cool.. I guess what I'm getting out of this is you just never know what's going to happen. If I'm out hunting and I see what I'd would call a mature buck, a buck that I haven't been watching and picking up his sheds year after year, I decide to take him....after aging him he really could be 4 1/2 to 7 or even 8 depending on feed, water, genetics and a number of unknown factors. Yes , in a perfect world it would be nice to be able to watch and pattern the deer like you where able to do on that one, but not always possible. Sometimes a deer just shows up that you may or may not of seen before. So having said all that if you shoot a big buck that you age at 4 to 5 years old, you may have got ?en him at his best, who really knows??? A crystal ball would be nice!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-19 AT 11:13AM (MST)[p]Actually that's not really what I am saying. I am saying if you want to continually produce excellent results for antlers you need to let 4 and five year old deer walk. Even if his antlers drop in inches at 6, 7, or 8, his sperm doesn't change. He has great genetics and still a great chance to create many more deer even greater than himself.

People who are serious about managing for antler size manage the deer they do see so they can manage the deer they don't see or are going to see a decade later. Play the long game.

I have also seen bucks that slid down a grade from one year to the next and then the following year took a massive jump. The antlers changed. Their genetics didn't. Some of the very best deer we have killed have taken giant jumps from one year to the next. They weren't harvested the year before because of a broken tine or beam. That gave them the relief they needed to make it another year plus they had a lot of sex and their awesome genetics made it to one more generation.

Case in point. I saw a giant whitetail buck where we hunt mule deer. He was courting a doe. I immediately put a rifle on him and I was waiting to pull the trigger when my brother waved me off. On close inspection we realized he was missing his left g-2 and g-3. If he would have had them he probably would have netted over 170 as a typical 10 pt with on split browtine. Fast forward one year we found him again. I killed him. He had gained mass one more split browtine but lost both of his g-4's. He didn't book but still grossed 175! So he went downhill but still was a great trophy and I guarantee his genetics are still on that prairie.

Second case in point. Last year we saw a 160 class 5 year old. Dark antlered great buck. We all said we hope he makes it to next season. Opening day last week he was the first buck we found. Boy he made my hart skip a beat. He was going to be very close to 180 now. Then we noticed his entire right g-4 was broken off. Now I'm not worried about the other hunters killing him so much. Can't wait to see that fella next year if he makes it through the winter. Should be a stud.



No one has ever made a herd management mistake by killing an 8 year old deer. EVER
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-19
>AT 11:13?AM (MST)

>
>Actually that's not really what I
>am saying. I am
>saying if you want to
>continually produce excellent results for
>antlers you need to let
>4 and five year old
>deer walk. Even if
>his antlers drop in inches
>at 6, 7, or 8,
>his sperm doesn't change.
>He has great genetics and
>still a great chance to
>create many more deer even
>greater than himself.
>
>People who are serious about managing
>for antler size manage the
>deer they do see so
>they can manage the deer
>they don't see or are
>going to see a decade
>later. Play the long
>game.
>
>I have also seen bucks that
>slid down a grade from
>one year to the next
>and then the following year
>took a massive jump.
>The antlers changed. Their
>genetics didn't. Some of the
>very best deer we have
>killed have taken giant jumps
>from one year to the
>next. They weren't harvested
>the year before because of
>a broken tine or beam.
> That gave them the
>relief they needed to make
>it another year plus they
>had a lot of sex
>and their awesome genetics made
>it to one more generation.
>
>
>Case in point. I saw
>a giant whitetail buck where
>we hunt mule deer.
>He was courting a doe.
> I immediately put a
>rifle on him and I
>was waiting to pull the
>trigger when my brother waved
>me off. On close
>inspection we realized he was
>missing his left g-2 and
>g-3. If he would
>have had them he probably
>would have netted over 170
>as a typical 10 pt
>with on split browtine.
>Fast forward one year we
>found him again. I
>killed him. He had
>gained mass one more split
>browtine but lost both of
>his g-4's. He didn't
>book but still grossed 175!
> So he went downhill
>but still was a great
>trophy and I guarantee his
>genetics are still on that
>prairie.
>
>Second case in point. Last
>year we saw a 160
>class 5 year old.
>Dark antlered great buck.
>We all said we hope
>he makes it to next
>season. Opening day last
>week he was the first
>buck we found. Boy
>he made my hart skip
>a beat. He was
>going to be very close
>to 180 now. Then
>we noticed his entire right
>g-4 was broken off.
>Now I'm not worried about
>the other hunters killing him
>so much. Can't wait
>to see that fella next
>year if he makes it
>through the winter. Should
>be a stud.
>
>
>
>No one has ever made a
>herd management mistake by killing
>an 8 year old deer.
> EVER

Thanks! I get all that, but if your looking at a 180? deer with nothing broke, you shoot him and he ends up being a 5 year old, how was you to really know until you age him?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-19 AT 01:10PM (MST)[p]
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

Because when you are talking mature you are conflating antler size, they are different subjects, you are also conflating mature with old.

What do you want to shoot? big (score) mature (over drinking age) or OLD?

All are legitimate targets, don't misunderstand, but they are FAR different animals, and you judge them using different criteria.

If you watch a bachelor herd it is seldom the best scoring buck who is in charge, yet one toss of the bosses head and everybody vacates the chow. Serious disagreements occur between EQUALS. Nobody punches up.

Im sanding and will take a pic to illustrate this point in a bit when Im tired of picking boogers...

66038img4258.jpg

91339017.jpg



84110016.jpg

https://flic.kr/p/21rSZSd

28897483.jpg


https://flic.kr/p/PqeEoU
23595img0001.jpg


https://flic.kr/p/2dchQcV

86804dsc07054.jpg


https://flic.kr/p/23aW2zX

Which of these is "mature" which are "big" which were "old" The answers may surprise you on the "old " part.


WTF is up with this site and pics these days anyway?
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-19
>AT 01:10?PM (MST)

>
>
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

>My current situation precludes me from
>caring about your opinion but
>go ahead and give voice
>to it anyway...
>
>Because when you are talking mature
>you are conflating antler size,
>they are different subjects, you
>are also conflating mature with
>old.
>
>What do you want to shoot?
>big (score) mature (over
>drinking age) or
>OLD?
>
>All are legitimate targets, don't misunderstand,
>but they are FAR different
>animals, and you judge them
>using different criteria.
>
>If you watch a bachelor herd
>it is seldom the best
>scoring buck who is in
>charge, yet one toss of
>the bosses head and everybody
>vacates the chow. Serious
>disagreements occur between EQUALS.
>Nobody punches up.
>
>Im sanding and will take a
>pic to illustrate this point
>in a bit when Im
>tired of picking boogers...
>
>
66038img4258.jpg

>
91339017.jpg

>
>
>
84110016.jpg

>https://flic.kr/p/21rSZSd
>
>
28897483.jpg

>
>https://flic.kr/p/PqeEoU
>
23595img0001.jpg

>
>https://flic.kr/p/2dchQcV
>
>
86804dsc07054.jpg

>
>https://flic.kr/p/23aW2zX
>
>Which of these is "mature" which
>are "big" which were "old"
> The answers may surprise
>you on the "old "
>part.
>
>
>WTF is up with this site
>and pics these days anyway?
>

Squirrel, those are all great bucks! I really could talk about this all day. Yes I agree those are all different...Mature, big, and old. Things kind of turned a bit when it went from Mature to old, I do understand that if you let a buck live he might become awesome, but from my original post #1, the only thing I was asking was do you consider a mule deer mature at 4 1/2 to 5 1/2, not old or big, just mature...on his own, living the dream life of a mule deer, until someone decided to wack him.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-19 AT 03:19PM (MST)[p]
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

Ive been fascinated with it for about 35 years or so, cant get enough

I would define mature as 4 years old or the last year of noticeable increase in growth, in antlers, yes, but more in body weight.

I define big as 180 typpy and up, but it is of course very subjective, and I have seen guys wet their pants over a 145 buck.

All those bucks were mature some were big, only a couple were "old".

The biggest was the youngest, by FAR the youngest, I wish I could throw him back!

The oldest was the smallest, almost nothing left for molars, 165" rack My guess is he was 12'ish


You want to judge "old" look at his rack but only after looking at his neck, face, ears first. At best it is an imprecise science full of OH ##### second guesses.

Here is one Mature? YEP Big? nope Old? YEP Well i tried this place sucks a$$

5297k7a3bf4d44bdc51000162.jpg




Personally I would never knowingly shoot a deer under 5.5 years guesstimated age. But a huge part of that is having lots of the nasty tasting fuggers on the wall already, your mileage may vary.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-19
>AT 03:19?PM (MST)

>
>
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

>My current situation precludes me from
>caring about your opinion but
>go ahead and give voice
>to it anyway...
>
>Ive been fascinated with it for
>about 35 years or so,
>cant get enough
>
>I would define mature as 4
>years old or the last
>year of noticeable increase in
>growth, in antlers, yes,
>but more in body weight.
>
>
>I define big as 180 typpy
>and up, but it is
>of course very subjective, and
>I have seen guys wet
>their pants over a 145
>buck.
>
>All those bucks were mature some
>were big, only a couple
>were "old".
>
>The biggest was the youngest, by
>FAR the youngest, I wish
>I could throw him back!
>
>
>The oldest was the smallest, almost
>nothing left for molars, 165"
>rack My guess is
>he was 12'ish
>
>
>You want to judge "old" look
>at his rack but only
>after looking at his neck,
>face, ears first. At
>best it is an imprecise
>science full of OH #####
>second guesses.
>
>Here is one Mature? YEP
> Big? nope Old?
> YEP Well i
>tried this place sucks a$$
>
>
>
5297k7a3bf4d44bdc51000162.jpg

>
>
>
>Personally I would never knowingly shoot
>a deer under 5.5 years
>guesstimated age. But a
>huge part of that is
>having lots of the nasty
>tasting fuggers on the wall
>already, your mileage may vary.
>

I like it!! Thanks!!
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-19
>>AT 03:19?PM (MST)

>>
>>
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

>>My current situation precludes me from
>>caring about your opinion but
>>go ahead and give voice
>>to it anyway...
>>
>>Ive been fascinated with it for
>>about 35 years or so,
>>cant get enough
>>
>>I would define mature as 4
>>years old or the last
>>year of noticeable increase in
>>growth, in antlers, yes,
>>but more in body weight.
>>
>>
>>I define big as 180 typpy
>>and up, but it is
>>of course very subjective, and
>>I have seen guys wet
>>their pants over a 145
>>buck.
>>
>>All those bucks were mature some
>>were big, only a couple
>>were "old".
>>
>>The biggest was the youngest, by
>>FAR the youngest, I wish
>>I could throw him back!
>>
>>
>>The oldest was the smallest, almost
>>nothing left for molars, 165"
>>rack My guess is
>>he was 12'ish
>>
>>
>>You want to judge "old" look
>>at his rack but only
>>after looking at his neck,
>>face, ears first. At
>>best it is an imprecise
>>science full of OH #####
>>second guesses.
>>
>>Here is one Mature? YEP
>> Big? nope Old?
>> YEP Well i
>>tried this place sucks a$$
>>
>>
>>
5297k7a3bf4d44bdc51000162.jpg

>>
>>
>>
>>Personally I would never knowingly shoot
>>a deer under 5.5 years
>>guesstimated age. But a
>>huge part of that is
>>having lots of the nasty
>>tasting fuggers on the wall
>>already, your mileage may vary.
>>
>
>I like it!!
68334d7ed190033274aff90d799c05fbd6478.jpeg
 
>
>
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

>My current situation precludes me from
>caring about your opinion but
>go ahead and give voice
>to it anyway...
>

Hey Squirrel, nice album! I appreciate the commitment pre digital photos took back in the treebark days. So many other questions.....


Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen
 
>>So if he was 4 years
>>old when you found the
>>first anter that would put
>>him in his prime at
>>5 and 6 as those
>>were definitely his best years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Jake H.
>
>
>
>My current situation precludes me from
>caring about your opinion but
>go ahead and give voice
>to it anyway...
>
>
>Only if you are counting his
>best as a net typpy
> Years 7 and 8
>blew everything else out of
>the water, and 9 was
>no slouch either

>
1873268983694081c4380a00fz.jpg

>
>
71426407686299712052ab8d72z.jpg


I didn't realize you was missing a set, I don't care about net, but his overall frame looked alot bigger in the 4x4 set and the single 5 that came after. I realized I counted wrong, I ment years 6 and 7. not 5 and 6. If you are missing 8 and it was the biggest then his prime was 7 and 8 for sure.

Post up the live pics you have of him.


Jake H.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
post up the live pics you
>have of him.
>
>
>Jake H.
>
458738e374dfcb10.jpg



31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

Sorry I didn't take 'em so I won't post 'em.

I can't make the pics work here now anyway MM is all #$%^'d up.

I'll try this one, now he is OLD!!

37821img1179.jpg
 
Thanks for trying squirrel. You have better techno-capability than me. If Some one else shoots me a private message with and email I will send them the pictures
 
>Thanks for trying squirrel. You have
>better techno-capability than me. If
>Some one else shoots me
>a private message with and
>email I will send them
>the pictures


31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

No problem it seems to be a size issue on the upload window anything real little zips through, big ones stop stone dead and in between take forever and then some show up and some don't. WAY above my pay grade as button pusher. Im gonna go hang some tree stands, much more in my wheelhouse, but with much greater chance of bloodshed.
 
I've always had the opinion that muley bucks aren't fully mature until at least 6-7 years of age. As a general rule, as long as a muley buck's body size, antler base (pedicles), antler main beams continue to grow... antler size continues to increase.

There has been more studies conducted on whitetails than any antlered deer. Muledeer may not be exact but I'm sure a lot of the same things hold true. Here's a few interesting articles on antler growth and age:

https://www.qdma.com/antler-growth-bell-curve/
https://www.qdma.com/can-estimate-bucks-age-shed-antler/

https://www.gohunt.com/read/life/the-key-to-antler-growth-age-genetics-nutrition#gs.jwzz0t

One thing that is consistent through just about every article I've read is that most buck's continue to grow in body size and antlers past 5 years of age. Also, things can change from 1 location...and 1 year to the next depending upon age, genetics, nutrition, weather, etc.
 
There's a lot of variable here. What exactly is mature? Well, its different to each person. To some people a deer might not be "mature" until he is what other people would call an old deer. To others as soon as he isn't a two point he's mature. I personally define a mature deer as a 4.5 year old deer. That's when he has stepped over from being a "teenager" to a "man" that can run his own harem. They really start to act different at this age. By 4.5 a deer will tend to start to have a rack that is close to his biggest, or at least closely resembles his biggest. He will still get bigger as long as the winter conditions and feed are right, but not usually the exponential jumps you've seen up to that age. A 4.5 year old deer is definitely in his prime as far as surviving winters goes and you find very few of this age class dead compared to younger and older bucks.

There's nothing wrong with defining maturity at other ages or landmarks, but each person has a different idea of what a "mature" deer is to them. That is just mine.

>I've always had the opinion that
>muley bucks aren't fully mature
>until at least 6-7 years
>of age. As a
>general rule, as long as
>a muley buck's body size,
>antler base (pedicles), antler main
>beams continue to grow... antler
>size continues to increase.
>
>There has been more studies conducted
>on whitetails than any antlered
>deer. Muledeer may not
>be exact but I'm sure
>a lot of the same
>things hold true. Here's
>a few interesting articles on
>antler growth and age:
>
>https://www.qdma.com/antler-growth-bell-curve/
>https://www.qdma.com/can-estimate-bucks-age-shed-antler/
>
>https://www.gohunt.com/read/life/the-key-to-antler-growth-age-genetics-nutrition#gs.jwzz0t
>
>One thing that is consistent through
>just about every article I've
>read is that most buck's
>continue to grow in body
>size and antlers past 5
>years of age. Also,
>things can change from 1
>location...and 1 year to the
>next depending upon age, genetics,
>nutrition, weather, etc.

Studies on whitetails can be useful when talking about mule deer, but the differences between the species don't allow an apples to apples comparison.

For example, whitetails do not have the same type of winter struggles that most western mule deer face. They don't have to migrate to survive. A whitetail's food source tends to contain more of the things they need to survive year round (nutrition) and be more plentiful. Whitetails are all around just more adaptable to their environment than muleys and thus why they can live just about anywhere. These things lead to the fact that your average western mule deer does not live as long as your average whitetail. Like most species, a shorter lifespan usually means a quicker maturation.

Of course different locations would change this as well. In Arizona, mule deer don't have to worry about winter as much or migration (at least not the to the extent of mule deer in the mountain west), but they are even more dependent on moisture and availability of nutritious feed for body and antler growth. Arizona can have a whole different effect on a deer obviously though as can be seen by the whitetails that thrive there. Everything's just a little bit different down there.

So I guess what I'm getting at is there are a lot of things that can effect both a person's perception of maturity and the actual maturity of a deer.

If you want to define "true maturity", my guess is it would actually vary some depending on region.
 
There's a lot of variable here. What exactly is mature? Well, its different to each person. To some people a deer might not be "mature" until he is what other people would call an old deer. To others as soon as he isn't a two point he's mature. I personally define a mature deer as a 4.5 year old deer. That's when he has stepped over from being a "teenager" to a "man" that can run his own harem. They really start to act different at this age. By 4.5 a deer will tend to start to have a rack that is close to his biggest, or at least closely resembles his biggest. He will still get bigger as long as the winter conditions and feed are right, but not usually the exponential jumps you've seen up to that age. A 4.5 year old deer is definitely in his prime as far as surviving winters goes and you find very few of this age class dead compared to younger and older bucks.

IDAHOHNTR, very, very well put, that's exactly what I've been trying to get out of this, that's exactly what I'd call ?mature?. I was after ?mature? not old or even big, just when you think a buck has become a man.
 
I would guess 4.5 year old buck mature.

5.5 to 6.5 year age likely the best antler potential to maximize his genetics if he stays healthy, and has good nutrition/feed.

Like I saw in a previous post a 5.5 year old buck that scored 252 and was 40 inches wide probably would not have been bigger this next year IMO.

I agree deer in northern states winter kill more than southern states, may reach potential sooner than even southern Utah, because of winter stress and feed.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom