Mexico sheds confiscated.........

Bura Nut · Jan 18, 2004

I need some help. I drove back from Mexico last night and the sheds I picked up and one coues lion kill with the skull attached were all confiscated at the border. My question is this. What is the way to legally take these type of horns across? The customs officers were less than pleasant and in addition to this they could not show me or tell me what law I broke. There was not a USFW officer present in Nogales so I had to leave. I contacted the USFW by phone last night and they said I violated the Lacy act. I really havent been able to get answers and this didnt happen to me last year so I need some help. p.s. I was working in Drummond Lindsey's camp and we shot some real good deer. one monster well over 200 that I will let him tell you about...... Thanks, Allen Taylor......

dakotakid · Jan 18, 2004

Lacy Act you say

Uhhh, isnt that a felony? Or is it just a Federal misdemeanor? Were you cited, ticketed or anything of the sort? Thats bad ju-ju Bura.

Mike

Bura Nut · Jan 18, 2004

Not cited or any legal trouble, just signed an "abandonment" form. Actually the customs guy checked the box for a different violation than the "Lacy act" and I was told by the USFW person over the phone that he "checked the wrong box"........luckily I had no other trouble but I really want the sheds back........ Allen Taylor......

dakotakid · Jan 18, 2004

Bura,

I would assume that there must be a legal way to get them across the border? Sounds to me like at this point you should let a sleeping dog lie and not stir the pot, never know when one of those Fedy boys gets a hair up his arse and decides to open it back up and "check the right box" and land you in a heap of trouble. Just figure out how to get them across legally and next trip you'll be ready with the proper paperwork or forms or whatever is needed to declare them. If I know the Feds its got to do with paper work and administrative fees.

Mike

D13er · Jan 18, 2004

Bura,

I brought a whole box full home last year. I declared them at the border in Sasabe and there was no problem.

JB

D13er · Jan 18, 2004

Isn't the Lacy act interstate? I would think from country to country would be a CITIES violation if anything. I think you got screwed by an idiot that didn't know what he was talking about.

JB

Bura Nut · Jan 18, 2004

Dakota, thats why I asked the question hoping others have figured out what form or proceedure you follow to make this legal. I brought horns back last year and it wasnt an issue. While sitting at the border this year I read the USFW pamphlet and it stated that any non-endangered animal trophies can be taken accross the border for "non-commercial" uses. If nobody has run into this issue before then I will go to the fed website and read the whole lacy act. Thanks for the responses....... Allen Taylor......

bobcatbess · Jan 18, 2004

Bura

YOU SHOULD KNOW BY NOW IF YOUR GONNA SMUGGLE,YOU SHOULD OF GROUND THEM SHEDS INTO APHRODESIAC!!!

HELL,THEY'D OF JUST THOUGHT IT WAS COCAINE AND SENT YOU ON YOUR WAY!!!

SMUGGLING SHEDS,OH WHAT A SERIOUS OFFENSE!!!

THEY DIDN'T FIND THAT OTHER BOX,DID THEY???

JUST KIDDING BURA!!!

LOOKS LIKE THEY COULD WORRY ABOUT OTHER THINGS TAKING PLACE THAT NEEDS SOME SERIOUS ATTENTION RATHER THAN WORRYING ABOUT A COUPLE OF SHEDS???

LET US KNOW IF THERE IS A LEAGAL WAY TO DO IT,SOMEDAY I MIGHT WANT TO SMUGGLE ONE OF THEM ROADKILL JAGUARS OUT!!!(he,he)

THE ONLY bobcat THAT WOULD OF NEVER IMAGINED BURA IN A BIND WITH THE LAW!!!

BCBOY · Jan 18, 2004

I heard that the US Gov has broken a Terror Cell plot that was to have Huge Mexican sheds smuggled accross the border and then thrown out on the Winter Range in Utah where the terrorist would sit and snipe off every shed hunting nut that came close to them. LOL! JK!

Bura,
Too bad for your loss. If there was some monster sheds that you had I would definately fight for them. But if they were just average sheds it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle.
Looking forward to hearing your Mexican stories and seeing the pics.

toddrice · Jan 18, 2004

LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-04 AT 10:36PM (MST)[p] Bura, I know a few things about the Lacey Act!

I spent alot of money and got to see the fancy court rooms at the Phoenix Federal Building too many times.

If you did not cross the U.S. border with the antlers, than you do not fall within the Lacey Act. If you did, and it was illegal for you to be in possesion of the antlers from the state or country you were leaving ? then you would fall under the lacey act. The act was written very broad, and can and is twisted many different ways.
E-mail and I can give you more info.
Thanks TR [email protected]

B_F_E · Jan 18, 2004

Bura, hope you had fun down there, I sure miss not making it this year.
I ran into a simular hassle two years back, I took a direct flight from Hermosillo to Salt Lake with a muley rack I had harvested.
While going through customs the agriculture guys asked for my address to declair the horns,
Anyway 2 months later a fish-Pig shows up at my door & gives me the 3rd degree & takes those horns, apparently Salt Lake isn't a designated port. Long story short I sicked an attorney on them & they eventually gave back the horns(very Grudgingly I might add)I think those pricks thought I wouldn't fight them & I was 2 weeks from being one of the first to challange the lacey act in a court of law under those circumstances.. when they dicided they didn't need those horns that bad after all.
If you can't work it out amicably, you may want to give my attorney a call since he's done a lot of resurch on the matter, his name is Ron Barker out of SLC.

My personal bias is that many anters like those they took from you are gafted under very questionable circumstances & brandished amounst thier fellow(short-mans desiese infected)Fish pigs.

woodruffhunter · Jan 19, 2004

B_F_E:

You are my hero!

BigPig · Jan 20, 2004

I left my rack down there for my friend to drive back to the states in a couple weeks. He has all the proper permits. I was worried about the airlines breaking the rack so I didn't want to fly with it. When I cleared customs in LA the first thing the guy asked for was my antlers. He actually said that he had to take them. He was a bit confused why I had meat but no antlers. I am very curious to hear how other Mexican hunters are getting their racks back to the states. I sure hope my buddy has no problem getting my rack and cape across (read: I hope he has them hidden very well).

Bura Nut · Jan 21, 2004

Thanks for all the responses. I am going to send Todd and email since he has went through this. BigPig: your buddy should have no problem because he has the tag attached to the horns. I on the other hand did have a "penis envy" syndrome custom agent who obviously didnt like me. He and all the supervisors couldnt tell me what the problem was, they would all say they were "following the direction of the USFW" which from what I gather there is only one for the whole state of AZ named Candice something. I probably will not fight real hard because 1. the horns were not big/I didnt shoot them. 2. I am concerned they will keep a data base on problem people like me and make further border crossing hell. It just seems to me that with all the terrorist problems and drugs that bringing something like shed antlers across the border, tying up the time of the customs/US ag people and USFW is a waste of time..... Allen Taylor......

RLH · Jan 21, 2004

hey bura, did they find the antlers during a body cavity search or what? i apologize, i couldn't help it...... was it the mexicans or the americans that confiscated them? i know a lot of guys that have brought antlers back, including my kids, and none of them had a problem. one good friend that hunts there each year has a mounted muley head, with no antlers on it, that he takes back and forth with him. when he gets a buck he attaches the antlers to it and stitches it up to bring them across. says he doesn't have to pay some sort of fee to the mexicans that way because he supposedly bought the mounted head down there. i've never heard of anyone having problems with shed antlers, on either side of the border. i don't understand how they can hassle you over something that isn't "endangered". i've brought a lot of fish and shrimp back with no problems.

toddrice · Jan 25, 2004

Allen, I received your e-mail and left you a phone message, with all my #'s, feel free to call. I would love to talk with you and help any way that I can. You might also want to talk to a few other people, as to get a clear picture of the what really happens with the US Fish and Wildlife. ( Ryan Hatch,Floyd Green, Ralph Steiner, Julius Fortuna,Sam Jaksick,George Tulman and Chad Smith just to name a few. )

kirkkelso · Jan 26, 2004

Allen,

Hopefully I can help (shed) a little light on this problem for you. Yes, it is illegal to enter the United States with antlers from Mexico unless they have a documented and valid sport hunting tag attached. You can tag a set of sheds if you wish to burn a hunting tag, but you must have a tag on them none the less.

The only way to get around this law is with a USFWS Import?Export permit and in the case of Nogales you would also need a port exception permit which allows you to cross at a border crossing other than the normal ones used for wildlife importation, such as New York, Los Angeles, etc. I have both of these permits as we need them in our importation of hunter taken trophy's in the event that we must bring them back into the United States without the hunter with us.

In regard to importing sheds and skulls with antlers, even with these permits, the person who is exporting them from Mexico, must be licensed by SEMARNAP (Mexican Fish and Wildlife) to do so. The only ones I know of who are licensed by SEMARNAP to do this are companies who export antler chandaliers (spelling?).

Crossing the border with shed antlers or skulls with antlers and not tagged is a clear violation of the Lacy Act, and is a felony under US law. Yes, I also know people who have sheds and skulls from Mexico that they brought up here with no problems, but I for one don't care to have this kind of problem over some discarded bone!!!! And if I had some, I sure wouldn't be jumping at the opportunity to brag about it, as you never know who's watching this or any other site.

Hopefully this helps. May not be what we would like to hear, but that the way it works.

Kirk Kelso

D13er · Jan 26, 2004

Holy crap!!!!!!!!Thanks for the eye opener Kirk..did I say in an earlier post that.....nevermind.

JB

hunterman67 · Jan 26, 2004

bura- you mentioned 2 reasons why you most likely won't bother with the antlers- you forgot the 3rd reason- and kirk made the same point. you were not down there representing yourself- you were down there "with" huntsonora- helping him right ? i can only assume that not only do YOU not want to be installed in some sort of "problem" hunter database, or be bothered again crossing with horns- (someday maybe YOUR deer, maybe a big one) but you also do not want to in any way compromise HIS hunting or guiding/outfitting business in that country -and- you do not know who watches or reads ANY hunting website. so if you need to- make your calls, ask general questions, and do not give specific information about yourself- OR, whomever you were down there with.
MICHAEL WAITE, MARANA, AZ.

Bura Nut · Jan 27, 2004

Kirk: Thanks for the explanation, that was what I couldnt seem to get from the employees at the border. Now I know what it will take and I will not burn a tag for some sheds..........Michael, you are right and the advice is good, its just not worth jeopardizing others or a buck I may bag in the future...... Thanks, Allen Taylor......