MONSTER RAM

B

BloodhoundBrother

Active Member
Messages
114
People that post pictures of their trophies on here and tell what unit they harvested in have no right to complain when they dont ever draw out again. The information is global, and people are ignorant if they dont think they are hurting their chances of continously drawing by publishing the unit in which they harvest from. Do yourself and the rest of the hunters who cherish their respected units a favor and pass that information along on a private level if need be.

Ok I am done.


Sincerely,
BHB
 
Excellent point!!! Now.....I am headed down to unit 30 on Friday to chase some sheep for the first time. If anybody wants to help out a rookie, PLEASE don't hesitate to PM or email me!!! I could really use all the help I can get!!!!
 
The guy from Midland,texass. Units are huge a number of a unit is a start point. Got to be a bad ass hunter to find them and knock them down!!!!
 
BHB! Wow if u are really that self conscious about your unit u must have a tiny, we'll u know. It ain't no secret that nm units have giant rams. If u can't share your success with others and show it's on public land u must think your really on to something. Obviously the draw units are a draw for a reason. Anyone who can kill a barbary on a public unit whether it's a giant or not is obviously a good hunter. For those who kill on unlimited units, obviously they are great hunters who put their time in no doubt. My advice to u is stay in Texas where the giant aoudad are and leave the NM units to people who ain't gonna cry.

Sincerely,

TJ
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-14 AT 09:27AM (MST)[p]Says the guy who recently moved to Midland tx, who is from NM and hunts the hell out of NM. I titled this post Monster ram just so people such as yall selves would read it.Barbary sheep is one thing as its a 1/3 chance someone is putting in for ypur unit, Mule deer especially is completely different. Lets not get in a pissing contest, about who is a better hunter,or make obscene references to the size of my man parts. Making such harsh remarks and personal attacks just proves that my comment hit a bone with you gentlemen. Yall are missing the entire point. Im not worried about my hunting spots.....But when people, ( TEXANERS like myself)and new residnent hunters who dont have a clue about hunting in the state, Get on this site and see all these big bucks and see what units they come from. It makes it pretty darn easy to narrow down where they want to put in for, thus reducing the odds of drawing again . Im not cryinig or trying to snub my spot from any other public hunter. Just hoping that people realize your only hurting your chances of drawing that unit again when you publish your stories, with specific units. Look what has happened on the Arizona strip in the last 10 years, just because of social media. Now if you draw once in your lifetime you will be lucky. Archer, if you would like to talk privatley, I would be more than happy to exchange photos and stories, Im sure a 200" mule deer and a few 30 inch sheep, numerous 160+ mule deer, hundreds of coyotes, many feral hogs, plenty of bobcats, record book antelope, all from New Mexico, NM Drivers License and Birth certificate might sway your idealogy around my "total Package" and allow me to be up opn your level for such a little bit. Its crazy to me how grown men, ( im assuming your a grown man), can publish something like that to the world from the safety of a computer. thats a poor representation of the people of New Mexico. I am passionate about hunting and I will do everything I can to hunt public land in NM as many times as I can for the rest of my life. If I get through to a handful of people on this site, and it prevents a few more peope for putting in for hunts that they normally would never do, Then mine and all of yalls draw odds stay the same or maybe increase from the year before and I will have accomplished what I intended to do. Im willing to put up with alot of remarks if it works.
 
Posting your success is a personal choice.

This forum would not exist except for pissing and moaning if we did not have folks that post their success.

I post a good hunt when we have one. I have helped numerous folks on their hunts and rarely regret it. I have received help as well

There are also those just looking for info, and normally I can sniff them out.

If you choose not to post your hunts and success I respect it, and I do enjoy seeing the personal emails I get and I always respect their privacy by not sharing.

Hunting is more to me than just protecting honey holes. I have made many good friendships that are worth more to me than a certain animal.

Killing a big Barbary is no easy thing. Luck can always be a part of it, but, I do not have that kind of luck. If you do not want to share pics that is always your choice, but, why brow beat someone that does.

I wont be na?ve enough to say that there is not competition in hunting. There is. But, beating the other guy is not what it is about. It is normally pushing yourself and competing against your self.

Hunting is fading out of our heritage, if you don't think so, google what is happening to hunting in CA, a huge state with lots of hunting opportunities. It is dying a miserable death.

So the strategy is to discourage others to share their success??

To make it sound like a old boys club??

That will work for a few years and as the segment of the population that hunts shrinks, you will be regulated to hunting private for a few more years and that will be gone. May not happen in our lifetimes, but, that is the trend.

Again, it is a personal choice, but, don't come down on people that share this hunting heritage. I do not think that is to well thought out.
 
I really think that many have missed the point.

It's been well known for decades that NM is a great place to go for elk. Post big photos all you want. But when unit is associated with a big photo, odds for that unit go down.

Take 18 for example when Bill nailed a state record bull there few years ago. That unit had leftover tags and few elk. It's still a piss-poor unit to hunt elk in, but the odds have dropped.

Take ibex. A decade ago it was nearly 100% draw odds for archery. Now it's ~25%. I attribute that to social media hyping the species. Guys see photos of huge critter and think "I want one", draw odds tank.

Same with Barbary. I have hunted them ~8-times over past decade. They have gone from OTC to ~30% odds. They are more popular to hunt, largely due to trophy photos and guys proudly touting what unit they killed them in. Nevermind that the hunt is extremely difficult; barbs are hard to find few & far between, etc. Point is it's now harder to draw tags for them. They were a trash species a decade ago: now they are featured on national TV shows!

The original post was simply saying "use a little discretion in hyping hunts in NM; all it does is hurts your/our draw odds".

At least that's my interpretation...
 
I agree and encourage others to post pics, I'm sure we all enjoy them a lot. BHB I'm sorry for talking smack earlier your right and as a grown man I'm apologizing for that. I don't wanna be looked down on for something I said without thinking. The NM forum is one of the best on this site and I wanna help keep it that way.
 
NM Paul,

Im not discouraging anyone to share their success, sharing photos of success is a personal choice, and I love to share my hunting holes, successes with my friends, family etc. I work hard to share the hunting tradition that has been passed down to me, and hope that one day when my newborn is old enough to carry a weapon, she wont have .5 percent draw odds that discourages her from hunting. Sharing my opinion on posting units of your successes with photos is way I contribute to say I tried to conserve a way for me to pass down the hunting tradition I grew up with. After all the places I hunt are places my family has hunted for many generations and i dont want to raise my daughter thinking hunting is killinf animals under a corn feeder. Forgive me if I sound selfish for saying that I would rather one of my family or friends have a tag, than someone who has never hunted the area before, and is doing so because he/she or the outfitter applying for them saw a bunch of big animals taken out of that unit on the web. I dont think anyone can disagree with that statement above, afterall people who put into the lottery are in for one thing, to win, and gamble with the best odds. I dont deserve a tag more than anyone else, but it is hard enough to draw with the plenty of people that already know their units and plan on passing down their heritage in those areas as well. This has been read in many different ways. IM NOT STATING THAT I DISAGREE WITH SHARING YOUR STORIES... WHAT is wrong with a story that has a little mystery to it. most people familiar with NM can narrow down where a animal was taken by the picture alone anyways. People are going to do what they want to anyways, but if I influence someones perspective, great. Think how many years yall have left of good hard hunting, with your kids, family, friends. I came off to harsh in my post statement, for that I apologize, but I still believe my point.
 
TX is getting $3000-$4000 for a aoudad hunt. They call Barbary the poormans big horn.

There are plenty of people that want ALL indigenous species (ibex, oryx, Barbary) out of this state. There are those that want elk out of unit 34 and I am sure other units.

So what if these hunts are popular. The guy that works hard will have success.

If I do not draw a family member or a friend will and I will go and enjoy their success.

The more demand for these hunts, the more valuable this resource is.

If these hunts went undersubscribed, how long do you think we would have these indigenous animals in our state.

Everyone has a right to do what they want when it comes to social media, and KW, you make a point that people should consider. I do respectfully disagree, but, it is a opinion that people should consider, I hope they consider mine as well.
 
I agree with this for elk deer antelope, etc, but there are only a few draw units for Barbary. It's not like it takes a genius to figure out which units guys are hunting.

Now, if you put out a location for OTC barbary herds.....I'm all EARS!
 
It amazes me at what you guys will come up with sometimes. ?Don?t tell anyone there are barbary sheep in units 30 & 29!? ?Don?t tell anyone about the barbary sheep on the Marquez in unit 9.? ?Don?t tell anyone about the barbary sheep over by Lybrook!? Are you kidding me??? There are no secrets anymore. If you think posting a pic of a big barbary is going to blow your chances of drawing a tag next year your crazy. Some guys know a little more than others, but it's no secret that there are sheep around in the draw units. Guys will put in regardless of what gets posted. I personally love seeing what other guys are getting.

The one about comment about AZ was the best. Now that I know there are big deer and elk in AZ I am for sure going to put in next year. In case anyone is interested I keep seeing posts of extremely huge deer coming out of Utah from the Henry Mountains??Oh dang it, I just let you all know there are big deer on the Henry Mountains!!! Now all of you are going to put in for the one NR tag and blow my chance in this year?s draw??.
 
I agree that There are plenty of people already wanting to hunt these areas and have been for decades. I guess if the goal is to keep driving the demand up to make so much that drawing a tag is a rare commodity than yes, placing your trophy with your unit of choice would be the right move.

My one question is why? If you have harvested a trophy, you or someone has spent the hours and money figuring out an area to hunt. Why give some vital information that makes anyone with a computer capable of potentially taking that tag and preventing you from continouing what you are doing. I might be totally wrong, just doesnt make since to me, if you build a company, and have something that makes you succesful, are you going to just hand out that information on the web to anyone, so they can share the same success. Some people might think thats a bad analogy but to some people profiting from a harvesting a trophy is just as valuable. Half of the battle is finding areas that hold the right genetics, habitat to grow trophy animals. If someone from New York, or a first time hunter from Northern new mexico wants to hunt mule deer in new mexico for the first time, all he needs is to google it, forums like this will pop up. Trophy animals with their associated units will show, and now he or she has the same chance of getting that tag. I understand helping people that ask for help. Just dont understand giving that information away, when people work so hard to succeed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-14 AT 12:33PM (MST)[p]This topic has nothing to do with Barbary at all, as i mentioned in my posts above....I merely put the topic as monster ram just so people would read it as it is sheep season. I really am talking more about mule deer and the other game animals specifically. Sheep, there is only three choices...like a stated above. Rattler, one I have nothing against posting pictures, everyone likes to see trophies including me. Im not trying to say you need to keep your trophies a secret at all. I just have different views on freely giving away where you killed your trophy, especially in units where there are a limited number of tags. you laugh at the AZ analogy, why im not to sure. There are still over the counter units that have very low demands in Arizona, so people arent rushing to hunt all over the state "Because big deer come out of Arizona." But, areas that have produced numerous trophies, have insanley low odds. the publication of these trophies through magazines like Hunting fool, Muley Crazey and others can be directly correlated to the jump number of applicants to those specific high demand areas.
 
yes blood, you are very right! personally i don't post pics or info about much, but im not trying to advertise or brag either.
 
I agree with you BHB. Its pretty disheartening when someone gives specific details about an area you have spent years figuring out and now anytime someone does a google search for where to hunt that unit, everyone is starting in your honey hole. I agree with helping pointing someone in the right direction. I've helped many people and others have helped me as well, but I choose to do it on a personal level for that reason. I think people are missing the point of your post. I haven't even posted pictures this year because I'm tired of someone asking "what unit was that in". People really don't realize how posting pictures of big bucks/bulls etc sways someone's decision on what unit to put in for which affects your odds of pulling a tag.

A wise man once said "don't ask me where I hunt and I wont have to lie to you".

JB
 
>I agree with you BHB. Its
>pretty disheartening when someone gives
>specific details about an area
>you have spent years figuring
>out and now anytime someone
>does a google search for
>where to hunt that unit,
>everyone is starting in your
>honey hole.

How can someone google "your honeyhole" if you dont post it?

You guys need to come to grips with the fact there are less hunting opportunities and more people wanting to hunt. The playing field is constantly changing.

You have to constantly make adjustments if you want to maintain a level of quality hunts every year.

Unit 34 used to be a good deer unit. Not now. That has nothing to do with the internet or people posting that they killed a deer in 34. It has a lot to do with other things.

Public land hunting will never be easy. If you think that some how that every honey hole will be good year after year you are under an illusion.

I sense some paranoia. It is simple. If you dont post your honey hole, then if someone finds it, then it was by chance.

If you post a unit, then others may apply for your unit. Decide if you want to or not.

There are not a lot of secrets in public land hunting.

There is a primate that fishes for information all the time on this site. Some of you will know what I am talking about. Nobody will figure out what you dont tell them.
 
I will help any hunter out and point them in the right direction. I will freely PM info on a unit that I'm familiar with if someone asks, but I hesitate to freely post info on my favorite unit just to not draw attention to it. That's my personal preference. I don't really care if others do it differently.

I also give my hunts the lowest satisfaction rating for the same reason...to keep my favorite unit on the down low. Does anybody else do that?
 
>I will help any hunter out
>and point them in the
>right direction. I will
>freely PM info on a
>unit that I'm familiar with
>if someone asks, but I
>hesitate to freely post info
>on my favorite unit just
>to not draw attention to
>it. That's my personal
>preference. I don't
>really care if others do
>it differently.
>
>I also give my hunts the
>lowest satisfaction rating for the
>same reason...to keep my favorite
>unit on the down low.
> Does anybody else do
>that?

I did it on 34 deer hunt, but, that goes without saying.
 
If you don't think the internet plays a roll in publicizing good places to hunt a unit and adds a concentration of people to it, your under an illusion.
I ain't gonna beat a dead horse.
 
As I said earlier, I wasn't talking about my specific hunting spots at all, just specifically talking about posting units to trophy pictures. I have a firm grip on things and there are statistics to back it up. Deadon set it perfect and couldn't be closer to my point.. That is all.
 
What I'd really like to know is what unit in NM are the tahr located? Would be a lot cheaper to hunt a bull tahr in NM than New Zealand!!!
 
lol....I thoroughly enjoy pissing and moaning.....


When you go swimming in the ocean, it is very cold, and it makes my willy small
 
>lol....I thoroughly enjoy pissing and moaning.....
>
>
>
>When you go swimming in the
>ocean, it is very cold,
>and it makes my willy
>small


Zigger, welcome to the NM forum, visit a little more often and see pissing and moaning NM style.
 
.....this is the NM forum???....htf did I get here????


When you go swimming in the ocean, it is very cold, and it makes my willy small
 
>lol....I thoroughly enjoy pissing and moaning.....
>
>
>
>When you go swimming in the
>ocean, it is very cold,
>and it makes my willy
>small


Hey?!? Im pretty sure someone else said somethin or another about someone else's winky up top of the page. Just sayin
 
>.....this is the NM forum???....htf did
>I get here????
>
>
>When you go swimming in the
>ocean, it is very cold,
>and it makes my willy
>small


Too much!! Laughed soo hard I hurt myself
 
This exact scenario can be played out in the field as well. Say you're on a public land deer hunt and happen to be sharing a particular area with a handful of other hunters that you don't know. One afternoon you spot that 180" buck that keeps us all awake at night, but you are unable to seal the deal on this particular day. These other hunters stop into your camp or pass you on the road and ask "well seen anything?" Is your response going to be "oh man we spotted this monster buck feeding in this meadow up there in the head of Buck Canyon!" I doubt any of us would be so free with our info.

This is a subject that has been on my mind for a number of years. I grew up hunting every chance I got. I began shed hunting as a young teenager in the mid 90's and can remember walking for days and never crossing paths with another soul. However with social media things have changed drastically. You're almost guaranteed to see more people than sheds anymore! There is one particular place that holds many memories for me and my family, and last year I had the opportunity to take an in-law on an archery elk hunt there. Day one we encountered a group of people that were actually filming an episode for a very popular hunting TV show. Talk about disappointing, my friends. The guide actually tried to make me look like the guy who had no business being there. I firmly believe this to be a result of social media and the few others I consider lucky enough to know about this honey hole not keeping a secret. When I go there today all I see is ATV tracks all over the hillsides and through the water holes, this place almost looks like a racetrack.

Hunting has always had somewhat competitive side, but has begun to show signs of being somewhat cut-throat. While I understand that most of us try to be helpful to others, you won't catch me revealing my knowledge of hunting areas to strangers. Heck outfitters offer money to people to show them where the trophies are! This ain't my idea of hunting and I wouldn't get any satisfaction being the hunter of an animal that someone has paid someone else to provide it's where abouts. I firmly believe that success starts with having your feet on the ground doing your own homework, and I won't let some stranger benefit from my hard work. For those of you that are so free with your info, man I hope we don't share the same spots.
 
As Paul said the playing field changes every year. Posting a picture on this site probably changes the draw odds less than .001 of a percent. The person down the hall from your office you took out one day for a ride probably changed it by a lot more than that. Don't deny it we all have done it. Are we more carful now you bet.

Public Land is Public Land.

I'm sure we have all read about how bad the deer are in the 2's there not what they used to be. I bet this forum won't change the draw odds to our advantage.

Now Hunting Magazines doing articles talking about "Gila Monsters" now that changes your draw odds.

Post pics if you want don't post if you don't want.

The deadline is less than a month good luck to all of you who apply.
 
>As Paul said the playing field
>changes every year. Posting
>a picture on this site
>probably changes the draw odds
>less than .001 of a
>percent. The person
>down the hall from your
>office you took out one
>day for a ride probably
>changed it by a lot
>more than that.
>Don't deny it we all
>have done it.
>Are we more carful now
>you bet.
>
>Public Land is Public Land.


>
>I'm sure we have all read
>about how bad the deer
>are in the 2's there
>not what they used to
>be. I bet
>this forum won't change the
>draw odds to our advantage.
>
>
>Now Hunting Magazines doing articles talking
>about "Gila Monsters" now
>that changes your draw odds.
>
>
>Post pics if you want don't
>post if you don't want.
>
>
So your sayin magazine articles change draw odds but not articles on here?!? There are for more people that read articles on this site than magazines. The internet is a free subscription! Once again posting pictures is not the point!! But putting units attached to those pictures, like your gila monster comparison does affect people's decisions of where they put in for.....for the last time, Post pictures don't post pictures I don't care, posting units with those pictures affects other people. Quit underestimating the power of social media. Everyone on here who is against me, all I've heard is " ya right like posting something on here affects anything." Keep telling yourself that. This doesn't pertain to just this site, this is just an example. Maybe I should just petition to get a tx forum going, so y'all won't have to listen to the pissing and moaning I do so much. Seems like when anyone brings something up, people on here that disagree just chalk it up to being incompetent and whining, rather than show logic why it wouldn't be true. I'm done with this post. If have said what I have to say.
 
so why are you not posting up picture of deer and elk taken in all those poor unit, MIS-information is the same as GOOD information it will all be on the web. So all the hunters that think like you should be posting up pictures of giant deer and elk claiming they are from those crappy units so now all those web seeking hunters will think WOW I just found a great unit.

But those crappy unit just might be some-ones honey hole too.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
I guess the point of the original thread is to understand the consequences of listing a unit or part of a unit when you post a picture.

I think we all can agree with that and understand that.

It is the individuals personal choice and I would hate for people to be afraid to post pics or stories because they will be picked apart by the peanut gallery.

We all know this happens. People comment on a bad shot, hunting apparel, guns in pics, etc.....

Just hate to see one more reason why folks will not post their pics.

I know that was not BHBs intent in his original post, to discourage people from posting, but, it can have that affect.

Lots of people choose not to post pics, and most often because they do not want to deal with people sniping them.
 
>so why are you not posting
>up picture of deer and
>elk taken in all those
>poor unit, MIS-information is the
>same as GOOD information it
>will all be on the
>web. So all the hunters
>that think like you should
>be posting up pictures of
>giant deer and elk claiming
>they are from those crappy
>units so now all those
>web seeking hunters will think
>WOW I just found a
>great unit.
>
>But those crappy unit just might
>be some-ones honey hole too.
>
>
>"I have found if you go
>the extra mile it's Never
>crowded".
>>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>>the MM green signature club.[font/]


Publishing false information is just as bad!! I have never said a word about lying where you shot anything.
 
Lets just end this with a picture shall we... got my ram back from last year and up on the wall. love it!

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j101/carpera1/photo_zps62f9bd43.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
 
>Lets just end this with a
>picture shall we... got my
>ram back from last year
>and up on the wall.
>love it!
>
>http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j101/carpera1/photo_zps62f9bd43.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


Pics are no good with out gps coordinates or at least the unit. :)
 
I thought this thread was about big horn. I forgot about those ugly smelly things that thrive in Texas. But I have to agree why would you give out any info about your unit? I killed a very nice buck this year in unit 2B below Devils Mesa but knew better than to post my story here because the January bow hunt might get too much attention. And I would never admit that the best mule deer hunting in September is in unit 53 above Goose Lake. In the end it don't matter much about the info published, your odds of drawing will always suck. Where I kill deer most people wont and if you need to read about areas to hunt and never do your homework your odds of success will be low.

In general if you want to be successful find an area close to home spend your time with the game and learn to pattern them. You will be way more successful than learning a new area. If I lived in Texas I would learn all there is about the game available there, but most importantly I would STAY IN TEXAS!
 
That was a very nice polite way to say stay out of New Mexico.
this sounds more like a "good ole NM boys club" statement to me.
I moved to TX two years ago. I figured out the game real quick, pay ridiculous amount of money for a 40 acre lease, pay ridiculous amounts of money for a Blind, pay ridiculous amounts of money for a feeder and corn, then just ring the dinner bell. However entertaining it may be, its not me muleywhisperer. That way of thinking by saying " well the odds are going to suck so it doesnt matter." Well, the odds can most certainly get worse. I am very succesful, I dont need tips or pointers on areas to hunt, and the areas I hunt in YOUR state, are closer driving distance from my house than your. all of that is irrelevant to the point i was making. Thank you for your advise, Ill keep The stay out of New Mexico under consideration. However, I do still have all my family and friends in NM, land in NM, and a vested interest in multiple companies in Nm, so its goin to be difficult. LMAO!
 
>Lets just end this with a
>picture shall we... got my
>ram back from last year
>and up on the wall.
>love it!
>
>http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j101/carpera1/photo_zps62f9bd43.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


BloodhoundBrother, how long are those horns on that ram?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-14 AT 03:46PM (MST)[p]I'm about done with this thread too.

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

I'll try one more example, and then I'm giving up.

A few years ago a very active poster on another popular bow site touted how many elk there were in unit 52, how good the draw odds were for NR, how much action he had during hunting it 2 seasons, how much better it was than OTC Colorado, etc.

Now I guarantee that Huntin' Fool or other magazines & TV were not touting unit 52 NM, so they weren't doing anything to skew the draw odds.

But I watched the draw odds for that unit drop significantly over the next few years after this guy posted a lot about it. It generated a lot of internet interest & chatter and more guys started applying there.

I truly believe that the simple act of one guy posting significantly about a single unit for archery elk made the odds drop significantly. Not a meager 0.001% like someone suggested above.

And I should add, that's fine. It's a free country, post all you want and hype any unit you want. But then don't turn around and gripe and moan that you never draw tags because the odds have dropped.

These items correlate directly.
 
OK, that settles it. I havent applied for anything in NM in the past 3 yrs. This year, I'm applying for EVERYTHING!!!!
 
>OK, that settles it. I havent
>applied for anything in NM
>in the past 3 yrs.
>This year, I'm applying for
>EVERYTHING!!!!

I hear 52 is pretty good. :)
 
So, it appears that the EVILNR wasn't motivated by any mention of a unit under a pic; rather he's going to apply now just out of spite for this thread? That's going to make my draw odds go down even more...
 
This year I personally have had 3 people who have NEVER expressed any interest in hunting Barbary tell me that based on seeing photos on MM, Bowsite and/or the wall in Sportsman's, they are going to try hunting them this year.

That's 3 more people in the pool and your odds (mine too) have just gone down.
 
I know this thread is not about draw odds, but it has become that. I still say, if you want to improve draw odds, go back to the way it used to be drawn - draw all 1st choice, then second choice, then third. Drawing an application and looking at all three choices is what has destroyed the draw odds. If you want to archery hunt for ibex, you can put as your 1st choice, and you are no longer competing against the 2,000 people that put it as their third choice.
 
+1 to what nmtaxi just said. This would let the people who want to hunt a cow elk or a crappy unit put in as their first choice and get drawn instead of competing with a bunch of peoples 3rd choice "consolation" hunts that they may not even go on.
 
nmtaxi & nmhunter: I agree that the "old" way of drawing all 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd generally increased odds, but I believe it was simply because the VAST majority of people didn't understand how it worked and thought it operated exactly as it does now. It was simply misinformation that helped those of us who understood the "old" system.

But I do agree - in some ways I'd like the old system back.
 
Smarba, I disagree. Back then, I think everybody knew how it worked. I think it took quite a while for people to figure out the new system, where you had as much chance at a primo unit on your third choice as your first.
I used to love hunting elk in 52. Lots of elk, no real big ones, but a great hunt. I would put it as my first and second choice. Other people were putting VV and the Gila as their first, so I could draw 52 about every other year. As soon as the system changed, I had to compete with everybody that put primo tags on 1st and 2nd, and then throw in 52 as a third. The draw success on a second tier unit like 52 suddenly went from 40%-50% to 10%. The old way spread people out a lot more than today.
 
Funny, this thread turned into exactly what my brother and I were talking about on the way back from our barb hunt. Does not seem right to me that my first choice, xx unit, will not get drawn due to another's third choice, same xx unit, being drawn. I agree with some above posts, the old system worked better in some ways.
 
Smarba I stand corrected I don't have any real information that posting will only increase your odds by .001 %. What facts do we have that will get more people to apply:
Kids pass there hunting education
The mentoring program.
Even though you have to put the whole amount for the draw, in a lot of cases most people can apply for a $2000 credit card and apply for everything and pay later if you draw.
More outdoorsman are moving to New Mexico it's an adult amusement park.


Of course the whole technical era were in, has potentially skewed the draw odds but has also given us as outdoorsman some pretty cool gadgets that we have all bought.

Can someone please shed some light how the old draw system worked that seems to be more popular. I always thought the application number was drawn.
 
Pnuts:

Old draw system (maybe ~10-years ago) was everyone basically had 3 choices reflecting 3 separate draws.

First draw was ONLY looking at 1st choices. So if every other person put Gila units as first choice and you put 52 as a first choice, when your name came out of the hat you'd get the 52 tag.

The next draw was for everyone's 2nd choice (less of course the folks who pulled tags in the first draw).

And so on for the 3rd draw.

Truthfully I never spoke to a single person who understood that: they all thought the draw worked exactly as it does now with all 3 choices being looked at the same time.

What that meant is at those who understood the draw could apply for a "2nd tier" unit as a first choice and be virtually guaranteed to draw every single year. Of course that meant forgoing the chance to draw a Gila or Sacremento tag but for many the chance to hunt every year was more important.

Lots of guys under the "old" system would select Gila tags for choics 1-3, clueless that every single Gila tag was given out during the first draw, so they were wasting their 2nd & 3rd choices.

Also under the "old" system it was much better odds for dedicated bowhunters. Most people would list rifle tags first choice, leaving those of use who applied bow-only more likely to draw a tag in the first draw.

I believe the current system tends to result in a lot of guys choosing rifle tags 1-2 and then tossing in bow tag 3rd since it's slightly easier draw, which results in more applications for bow tags and less chance to draw.

Carl
 
I like the current system much better.

Whole different set of dynamics compared to back when the old system was in place.
 
Yes there are pros & cons to each system, which were I believe beaten to death back when the change was made.

Key is simply to understand whichever method is used.

And I suspect less than 25% of applicants understood the old method. Which made it more effective for those of us who did :eek:)
 
>Yes there are pros & cons
>to each system, which were
>I believe beaten to death
>back when the change was
>made.
>
>Key is simply to understand whichever
>method is used.
>
>And I suspect less than 25%
>of applicants understood the old
>method. Which made it
>more effective for those of
>us who did :eek:)

I thought the old way didn't allow you to separate weapons.

If I put in the following for Elk hunts how were my odds better the old way.
15 Muzzle loader 1st hunt
Valle Vidal
13 Muzzle loader

I think the odds are bad either way.
 
Pnuts, the odds are bad either way, but the odds on your 1st choice improve. You are now only competing against people that have the same first choice. You are not competing with people that have it as their 2nd and 3rd choice also. But, you can no longer can draw a primo tag with the other 2 choices. You have to put in for lesser hunts to draw on those choices.
 
I really wished the draw was like it is now, a true lottery, but weapons specific like it used to be. If I only want to hunt with a muzzleloader then all 3 of my choices have to be muzzleloader hunts. Same with bow, same with rifle.

I also wished like hell, somebody would figure out why the Muledeer are declining, and reverse that trend.
 
Last picture i have or will post here was of a modest cow I arrowed during archery season. It was suggested, if not full thrown that i shot it with a rifle. Lost a little desire to share my pride with an internet group.
 
I personally liked the "old" system better, I'd rather hunt every year even in a "less" desirable unit. I never heard a good explanation why it was changed, or who was pushing it, surely it was someone on the commission or someone who had the ears of a few commissioners. I don't think there was any public discussion of it, it just happened. In any case, the odds of changing it back are probably very slim, so I've just changed strategies to adapt. Unfortunately this means hunting elk about every other year, instead of almost every year. On the plus side the new system got me to start bowhunting, mostly in Colorado, which I've thoroughly enjoyed.
 

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