Montana is a fun hunt

Hunting406 said:
I guess the no doe hunting on public in region 6/7 is a start in the right direction! More is going to have to change though
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If FWP is gonna make any headway they must make reporting a priority. Maybe even some teeth aging to get a real data point on age of harvest rather than 4 point or not 4 point.

I think we all want the same results, healthier mule deer populations
 
timmy said:
I’m all for opportunity but once populations crash and we are effecting the herd health there needs to be a hard stop. Opportunity is going to dry up real quick if we continue on the same course. We may have been able to handle 21k plus nonresident tags in the past but we can’t anymore.
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Agree 100%. It’s a shame the game agencies are the way they are!
 
You guys are comical judging our hunt from every angle. The title says it was a fun hunt, and that it was. Nobody in our group thinks we killed big ol mature bucks and nobody in our group sweated the $1500 of fun we had. This hunt didn’t take multiple years of points to draw and we knew going into it what caliber bucks we were more than likely going to be hunting. Cheers boys and I hope you get what you want in your great state. I’d gladly wait 5-6 years to hunt less pressured areas with decent opportunities at more mature deer.
 
Hey man. I didn’t mean to get personal. I spent 12 years driving every road from Alzada to Plentywood—-over to Libby and down to Darby and back to Alzada.

I just wish there were more mule deer on the landscape like there used to be——that’s all.
 
I feel like there's a large misunderstanding on what the problem is in Montana. I'll break it down quickly.

Been hunting as a NR since early 2000s. Things were great until 2009. Like really great.

What happened in 2010? And around 2010. The 75% kill winter and an additional 2000 or 2500 NR tags taken away from outfitters. That pushed a huge influx of people onto public lands.

The lack of talk about people from W. Montana going to E Montana is funny to me as that's been one of the largest changes in the last 10 years. It's been crazy. You could drive this road I would often drive that had 3 sections of public pre 2013 and there was no one around. You had it too yourself. After 2013 there was someone or multiple parked at all 3 sections. Many have Montana plates.

The last big thing. The ******* doe tags they give out is asinine. Self explanatory there.

You could fix this easily with 1 or more of the following.
1. less doe tags, (or make them landowner only tags)
2. No November hunting
3. Pick your region. R and NR

That's all it would take. Just pick 1. Montana is too money hungry and they're not going to change. The fact that people are sitting here cluelessly blaming NRs is ridiculous. I don't shoot young deer. What you're saying is complete BS and circumstantial. NRs are not the problem. Those tags are capped.
 
monster doe said:
I feel like there's a large misunderstanding on what the problem is in Montana. I'll break it down quickly.

Been hunting as a NR since early 2000s. Things were great until 2009. Like really great.

What happened in 2010? And around 2010. The 75% kill winter and an additional 2000 or 2500 NR tags taken away from outfitters. That pushed a huge influx of people onto public lands.

The lack of talk about people from W. Montana going to E Montana is funny to me as that's been one of the largest changes in the last 10 years. It's been crazy. You could drive this road I would often drive that had 3 sections of public pre 2013 and there was no one around. You had it too yourself. After 2013 there was someone or multiple parked at all 3 sections. Many have Montana plates.

The last big thing. The ******* doe tags they give out is asinine. Self explanatory there.

You could fix this easily with 1 or more of the following.
1. less doe tags, (or make them landowner only tags)
2. No November hunting
3. Pick your region. R and NR

That's all it would take. Just pick 1. Montana is too money hungry and they're not going to change. The fact that people are sitting here cluelessly blaming NRs is ridiculous. I don't shoot young deer. What you're saying is complete BS and circumstantial. NRs are not the problem. Those tags are capped.
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I agree with almost everything you’ve said but when nonresidents are shooting more bucks than residents in some of the regions, nonresidents have become a problem at that point.
 
timmy said:
I agree with almost everything you’ve said but when nonresidents are shooting more bucks than residents in some of the regions, nonresidents have become a problem at that point
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I do often here of people going to a Montana just to get a deer. I find it kinda disgusting. So I don't necessarily disagree with you.

Let the babies live.
 
monster doe said:
I feel like there's a large misunderstanding on what the problem is in Montana. I'll break it down quickly.

Been hunting as a NR since early 2000s. Things were great until 2009. Like really great.

What happened in 2010? And around 2010. The 75% kill winter and an additional 2000 or 2500 NR tags taken away from outfitters. That pushed a huge influx of people onto public lands.

The lack of talk about people from W. Montana going to E Montana is funny to me as that's been one of the largest changes in the last 10 years. It's been crazy. You could drive this road I would often drive that had 3 sections of public pre 2013 and there was no one around. You had it too yourself. After 2013 there was someone or multiple parked at all 3 sections. Many have Montana plates.

The last big thing. The ******* doe tags they give out is asinine. Self explanatory there.

You could fix this easily with 1 or more of the following.
1. less doe tags, (or make them landowner only tags)
2. No November hunting
3. Pick your region. R and NR

That's all it would take. Just pick 1. Montana is too money hungry and they're not going to change. The fact that people are sitting here cluelessly blaming NRs is ridiculous. I don't shoot young deer. What you're saying is complete BS and circumstantial. NRs are not the problem. Those tags are capped.
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I agree with just about everything also. Non Residents are a problem now because the majority of them are flocking to two regions, It is not the NR fault, but the fault of FWP in failing to impose regulations to fix this issue. The days of state wide tags is long over dew to be ended.
Where you are wrong is that the hunting was great in the early 2000's. The decline was already well under way, The hunting was much better in the 90's and ever better yet in the 80's.
 
Rie bread said:
I’d wager even if you had to pick your region the numbers in 6/7 would hardly change on the NR front or the resident front.
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They would have to but a cap on it! It’d be nice if they let the locals of their respective region have a general tag for that region and if others want to hunt it they set a capped number and it’s a draw for that number for people from other regions and non res get 10 percent of the number they choose for the extra tags in said region! It should help spread people out anyways
 
We don’t want them either lol !

there’s a few units in region 4 that have a 3 week general rifle and then a LE rut hunt. Not sure it’s any good or helped numbers though.

Also a few easy to draw units that have maybe 1000 tag cap? Bull elk hunting is super restricted there as-well so not tons of pressure despite being close to Helena and Butt.

410/417 just went to a LE for deer hunting so I’m curious to see how this goes. And I think I might put in for that unit this next season to experience it.
 
Stubaby said:
#artforpresident
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Not a chance.

Although the pay would be a big jump form my current job.
Best part of the job would be watching the White House press whine when I took my vacation in middle of no where SE MT, not Martha's Vineyard and they had to follow along.
 
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Soj51hopeful said:
I got my phone call hunters survey today.
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I got one today also. For me and my 12 yr old son. Told lady all the info, what region etc.. and on one specific one, she says “geez I’ve been hearing that place a lot today” I said I believe it, saw more ppl than deer won’t be going back to that area again, it didn’t use to be like this. Also asked about wolves/moose.
 
270Whatelse said:
Thanks for the OP for sharing his pictures and recap of his hunt. Looks like there are alot of jealous people out there.
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It was a nice recap. It shows how nonresident hunters treat Montana and the challenges we face. I don’t think there is any jealously from any of the bucks the OP posted. There is concern on how far we have fell with our mule deer herd. Year after year of every buck moving getting shot has certainly taken its toll. History seems to be repeating itself with eager participants to shoot the last one.
 
270Whatelse said:
I have hunted this part of MT and have seen a ton of Res blasting every fork and spindly 3x3 so I don't see how the majority of blame falls on N Res??? And every state has people that are willing to shoot the last buck out there not just in MT.
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What kind of buck did you blast? mtmuley
 
^^^He wanted to fit in while he was there, so he blasted a fork horn and went to the bar wearing his wool vest and stormy Kromer hat to gripe about the lack of big bucks and overall distaste for NR's......
 
Montana mule deer are very vulnerable. Open, glassable country and rut hunting. It’s never been as good as other states for trophy mule deer. You would have to dramatically cut tags and season dates to protect the 2.5 year old bucks. If you want to talk early 2000s—sure the hunting was better in Montana than it is now, but it was WAY better in colorado than Montana at that time! Montana sucks for trophy hunting, and it will never compete with colorado, Nevada, Utah, Idaho. Just not in the cards. So why try to turn in into something it can never become?

I would bet money that the vast majority of Montana residents would rather keep it as an opportunity state with liberal season dates and tags.

Good luck to you vocal minority in getting things changed. I’m sure you will love the opportunity to hunt slightly bigger bucks every 3-4 years (which will quickly become every 10-15 years).

Probably better find a big ranch where you can manage as you see fit…I just don’t see Montana management changing dramatically any time soon.

Personally I will hunt for trophy bucks in better states and continue coming to Montana to crush forked horns and cow elk as my schedule permits..
 
willfrye027 said:
Personally I will hunt for trophy in better states and continue coming to Montana to crush forked horns and cow elk as my schedule permits..
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Who said anything about trophy hunting? And non residents aren't a problem? Really? Un fricken believable. There are enough of us pissed off in this state that things are going to change. Mule deer statewide are in decline. It's time to limit everybody, not just guys like you that come here to smack a pisshead. mtmuley
 
mtmuley said:
Who said anything about trophy hunting? And non residents aren't a problem? Really? Un fricken believable. There are enough of us pissed off in this state that things are going to change. Mule deer statewide are in decline. It's time to limit everybody, not just guys like you that come here to smack a pisshead. mtmuley
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In all seriousness the doe tags need to be eliminated. Beyond that, wanting bigger bucks is purely a social issue with zero bearing on the “herd”. And I think you will find yourself in the minority on that particular social issue, but good luck and be careful what you wish for.
 
willfrye027 said:
In all seriousness the doe tags need to be eliminated. Beyond that, wanting bigger bucks is purely a social issue with zero bearing on the “herd”. And I think you will find yourself in the minority on that particular social issue, but good luck and be careful what you wish for.
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The core issue isn't about big bucks. Do some research. mtmuley
 
mtmuley said:
The core issue isn't about big bucks. Do some research. mtmuley
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Every single western state is suffering from the same problem. Do some research.

Limiting nonres areas in Idaho…APRs in Wyoming and nonres tag cuts…massive tags cuts in Utah…the list goes on. Not a SINGLE one of those interventions has made a difference in the amount of crying by residents or the deer numbers.

I don’t know if it’s because Montana FWP is smart and knows that limiting hunters does almost nothing for deer population..or if they don’t care. But at LEAST they are not drastically reducing opportunity to hunt.

Mule deer hunting is bad right now, everywhere. The answer is not cutting tags or limiting participation. I won’t pretend to have the answers but I am tired of all the bar stool biologists screaming from the mountain tops in their tin foil hats.
 
willfrye027 said:
Every single western state is suffering from the same problem. Do some research.

Limiting nonres areas in Idaho…APRs in Wyoming and nonres tag cuts…massive tags cuts in Utah…the list goes on. Not a SINGLE one of those interventions has made a difference in the amount of crying by residents or the deer numbers.

I don’t know if it’s because Montana FWP is smart and knows that limiting hunters does almost nothing for deer population..or if they don’t care. But at LEAST they are not drastically reducing opportunity to hunt.

Mule deer hunting is bad right now, everywhere. The answer is not cutting tags or limiting participation. I won’t pretend to have the answers but I am tired of all the bar stool biologists screaming from the mountain tops in their tin foil hats.
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So, what do you think is the answer? I have 20 points and apply for one of the arguably two best units in the state. I live in the unit and spend serious time there year round. Not sure I want to draw. Speaking of biologists, barstool or not, an LE unit here was proposed by our biologist to go general a couple years ago. This year the proposal is to cut tags by roughly 30%. So we are posed with the real biologists ineptitude also. mtmuley
 
mtmuley said:
So, what do you think is the answer? I have 20 points and apply for one of the arguably two best units in the state. I live in the unit and spend serious time there year round. Not sure I want to draw. Speaking of biologists, barstool or not, an LE unit here was proposed by our biologist to go general a couple years ago. This year the proposal is to cut tags by roughly 30%. So we are posed with the real biologists ineptitude also. mtmuley
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Honestly, wait to use your points until an up cycle. Were on a bad down cycle. Some of this may be human driven, most I believe is weather events.

If I was the mule deer king this is what I would address:

Road mortality—senseless and lose-lose for everyone involved

Improve summer range habitat (log and controlled burns etc)

Improve winter range habitat (cheat grass, development/encroachment, etc)

No doe tags in units under population objective

And give that some time to bolster populations. We need big healthy populations with plenty of forked horns to go around, and some bucks to slip through the cracks and get big. Then everyone is happy.

If I was a Montana resident I would get the hunting seasons out of the rut, leave tag quotas alone. Let people hunt but also leave the deer alone during the rut and early winter.
 
willfrye027 said:
Honestly, wait to use your points until an up cycle. Were on a bad down cycle. Some of this may be human driven, most I believe is weather events.

If I was the mule deer king this is what I would address:

Road mortality—senseless and lose-lose for everyone involved

Improve summer range habitat (log and controlled burns etc)

Improve winter range habitat (cheat grass, development/encroachment, etc)

No doe tags in units under population objective

And give that some time to bolster populations. We need big healthy populations with plenty of forked horns to go around, and some bucks to slip through the cracks and get big. Then everyone is happy.

If I was a Montana resident I would get the hunting seasons out of the rut, leave tag quotas alone. Let people hunt but also leave the deer alone during the rut and early winter.
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It's going to be tough. But what is in place now is not sustainable. mtmuley
 
willfrye027 said:
Honestly, wait to use your points until an up cycle. Were on a bad down cycle. Some of this may be human driven, most I believe is weather events.

If I was the mule deer king this is what I would address:

Road mortality—senseless and lose-lose for everyone involved

Improve summer range habitat (log and controlled burns etc)

Improve winter range habitat (cheat grass, development/encroachment, etc)

No doe tags in units under population objective

And give that some time to bolster populations. We need big healthy populations with plenty of forked horns to go around, and some bucks to slip through the cracks and get big. Then everyone is happy.

If I was a Montana resident I would get the hunting seasons out of the rut, leave tag quotas alone. Let people hunt but also leave the deer alone during the rut and early winter.
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I think the experience of Montana would be just as good with an October season. The big bucks are gone have been for some time, we have population issues now. There is an uprising with residents and I see some changes coming, hopefully for the better.
 
270Whatelse said:
How are you going to address road mortality? As far as I know, no one wants to or intends to hit deer with there vehicle.
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The solution to elk collisions last winter was illuminated sign that said caution elk … I think I counted over 20+ in one winter at one crossing within a mile of the sign
 
Rie bread said:
We don’t want them either lol !

there’s a few units in region 4 that have a 3 week general rifle and then a LE rut hunt. Not sure it’s any good or helped numbers though.

Also a few easy to draw units that have maybe 1000 tag cap? Bull elk hunting is super restricted there as-well so not tons of pressure despite being close to Helena and Butt.

410/417 just went to a LE for deer hunting so I’m curious to see how this goes. And I think I might put in for that unit this next season to experience it.
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You will be disappointed in the deer numbers.
 
Stacking up dinks like cordwood! Until a lot of MT residents (hunters, politicians, FWP, landowners) agree it's time for big changes and they have to give up some things, this ain't gonna change. It gets worse every year.
 

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