MORE LO Elk TAGS???

J

jamaro

Guest
This needs to be killed ASAP.. PLEASE PLEASE CALL... With the way the house and the chairs are set this could very well happen

LEGISLATIVE ALERT!

Representative Bealquin Bill Gomez of District 34/Do?a Ana County has introduced two pieces RADICAL LEGISLATION (HM 114 & HB 616) proposing that landowners receive a "100 PERCENT INCREASE IN HUNTING TAGS (for landowners)... ...FOR TEMPORARY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT OF ELK STATEWIDE..."!
*Per language in the committee substitute of HB 616 that has not yet been updated on the NM legis website

THESE BILLS WILL BE HEARD THIS FRIDAY IN THE HOUSE AGRICULTURE, WATER AND WILDLIFE COMMITTEE.

Even though free ranging wildlife is held in the public trust, here are the facts...

Of the approximately 18,000 landowner authorizations currently given to landowners each season about 8,000 TAGS GO UNUSED EACH SEASON!

Currently, landowners receive almost 50% of the total number of tags allotted during each elk season. The remaining number of tags go into the public draw of which sportsmen receive 84% (6% to non-residents and 10% to outfitters/guides).

The NMDGF Commission now allows ranches as small as one acre to receive an automatic tag and sets virtually NO LIMIT on how many elk tags go to landowners. At the same the average public lands hunter must enter the draw in hopes of receiving a tag!

IS THE BLOOD STARTING TO REACH A BOILING POINT YET?

HERE'S WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY...

1. CONTACT REP. GOMEZ and let him know what you think of his proposed legislation.
Capitol Phone: 986-4221
Capitol Room #: 202A
Home Phone: (575) 233-3040
Email: [email protected]

2. SHOW UP AT THE HEARING ON FRIDAY MORNING AT 8:00 AM AND RAISE HELL! ROOM 315 AT THE STATE CAPITOL.

3. CONTACT THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE AND TELL THEM TO VOTE NO ON THIS PROPOSED LEGISLATION.
Here are the members of the House Agriculture, Water and Wildlife Committee. Anyone can call any legislator, but they are most interested in hearing from their constituents. If any of the committee members represents you, it is especially important that you contact them. And remember -- they are in Santa Fe to represent the public, not special interests! NOT SURE WHO IS YOURT LEGISLATOR? Click here: http://nmwildlife.org/app/lookup?2&m=10060&lookupInput=87501

Chairwoman Candy Spence Ezzell, Roswell, Capitol phone (505) 986-4420
Vice chairman Andy Nunez, Hatch, (505) 986-4210
Paul Bandy, Aztec, (505) 982-4211
Randal Crowder, Clovis, (505) 986-4210
George Dodge Jr., Santa Rosa, (505) 986-4227
Bill Gomez, La Mesa, (505) 986-4221
Bobby Gonzales, Taos, (505) 986-4428
Dona Irwin, Deming, (505) 986-4215
Bill McCamley, Mesilla Park, (505) 986-4436
Bob Wooley, Roswell, (505) 986-4454

4. PASS IT ON - Please share this alert with a friend and ask them to get involved by joining our Sportsman's Alert network. New Mexico sportsmen need to stay involved to ensure our hunting and fishing traditions continue. And please make a contribution to NMWF. With sportsmen like you, we can continue to make a difference. Go to www.nmwildlife.org to donate today.

http://www.nmlegis.gov/lcs/legislation.aspx?
 
If u were a land owner with elk destroying your fields and u having to fix fences after they leave you would feel differently.
 
Just to clarify... This will double the amount of tags LO get OFF OF THE BACKS of public draw hunters...

J-
 
Let me start by saying that I don't think they need to increase the landowner tags by 100%. Game and Fish is doing a good job with the E-plus system. Also if the population needs to be reduced then they can use the population management program which already exists.

But, big BUT

You guys are always running with to many landowner tags, but then you say the number 50% and when you look at our state and see that about 50% is privately owned doesn't it make sense that those tags would go to private land owners.
Next you say that 8000 tags are being unused in the landowner program, don't you think that if this was all about the money and to hell with the anamils that they would be using every tag they could. Instead they are managing their tags to sustain a healthy elk population.
Then you talk about the small ranch thing. Yeah at first glance it seems weird that these small ranches are getting elk tags, but I had a buddy of mine tell me that he was going on an elk hunt on a private piece of land. The land was only 9 acres and I was thinking to myself have fun with that. The next morning he sends me a picture of a bull he got and a cow his nephew got. I was talked to him more about it and he was talking about how the land has only good water supply within miles so that small piece of land was single handily keeping the elk population thriving in this area, so makes sense to me that they get a bull tag and a cow tag considering they keep about 100 elk watered in the area. They went back the next morning just to look and there were about 25 elk there getting a drink with two different bulls.
Lastly with your above BLOOD BOILING statements you say it will take "off the back of public hunters", I don't see where it says it will take draw tags away and give them to the private.

So to get anti-support of the bill is one thing, but to try to do it by pushing your E-plus issues is not the way to do it.

Sorry to go on and on, but I don't like when people try to convince people of things with scare tactics. If you would have just posted what this bill would do then I would have just wrote, I agree lets call and get it stopped, but here we are two paragraphs later arguing about a whole different topic.
 
>If u were a land owner
>with elk destroying your fields
>and u having to fix
>fences after they leave you
>would feel differently.

That's the truth!
Later
Foghorn
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-15 AT 09:46PM (MST)[p]Well stated live4mulies.

I know of a lot of unused,unsold LO tags.
Some of the best hunting and quality is on ranches. It's usually the only reliable water for miles where I am.
Are there some ranches that don't deserve tags? Probably,but has G&F ever gone to look to verify?Are there some jerk ranchers? You bet.
Are there some jerk resident hunters? Too many to count.
I don't see more tags TAKEN from NM hunters.
Tag numbers have increased for draw in my unit. LO tags have been cut.
I never hear about a depredation hunt or a call about one for a 4th choice.
How many of the cow tags for NR go unused now,in the draw?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-15 AT 07:54AM (MST)[p]No other western state grants the amount of subsidies to landowner and outfitters that NM does. Every Western state has roughly the same percentage of private land. No state that I'm aware has something as ridiculous as UW system. Arizona does not even issue landowner tags and somehow ranches and farm are still able to exist.

If you have crops fence wildlife out, if you raise livestock wildlife damage from ungulates will never be that great. It has never been about depredation, it's about a subsidy. From what I can tell selling tags at high prices has become as important as actual ranching on some properties. All you have to do is look at some of the tv shows showing hunts in NM, you see fancy lodges and celebrities but you rarely see livestock out in the field.

Sure there are some large ranches who manage the elk on their property very well, but that is obviously not because of depredation but a way to maximize income using the subsidy. If there really are so many unused tag why is this being pushed in a committee that has so many ranchers on it.

Since the 1930's when game laws came into existence to about the 1970s NM ranchers charged trespass fees and that was it. If you started hunting elk in NM around the 80's you probably noticed a big increase in the elk population statewide. At the time I did not understand why there was not a proportional increase in draw tags. It was not until recently that I realized that there was an increase in tags, it just did not go to increasing the numbers in the draw.

There are a limited amount of elk, you'd have to be completely naive to believe that an increase in landowner tags would not result in a reduction in public land tags. So what JAMARO said is 100% correct.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-15 AT 01:30PM (MST)[p]>There are no NR cow tags
>in the draw.

Bingo,
and the entitlement crowd in NM doesn't use them.Most are 100% draws.Underprescribed,but we need more.
They deserve a Gila trophy bull every year,or free access to ranches to hunt.
Or whatever it is they call it.

For the record I think the LO tags should all be RO. And the e-plus program does need to be tweeked.There are many welfare rancher IMHO. But there is a finite amount of public lands for draws hunts in the units. I'd hate to see the forests crawling with hunters like UT,CO during my hunt.
 
As a non-resident i think its great. The way you've fleeced us the last few years jamaro, i hope you get some of your own medicine. Give those landowner tags. Pass that bill
 
Just about the only way the non res. hunter can get a good NM elk tag is to buy it from the LO !! I would love to see the Rancher I have been buying a tag from be given a few more, both my boys and brother would grab them up quick. I have hunted big bulls 3 years in a row now because of LO tags. Cost me a boat load of money but IMO it is money well spent. After NM cut the non res out like they did they made it a pay to play program and I'm payin because I plan on playin !!!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-15
>AT 01:30?PM (MST)
>
>>There are no NR cow tags
>>in the draw.
>
>Bingo,
>and the entitlement crowd in NM
>doesn't use them.Most are 100%
>draws.Underprescribed,but we need more.
>They deserve a Gila trophy bull
>every year,or free access to
>ranches to hunt.
>Or whatever it is they call
>it.
>
>For the record I think the
>LO tags should all be
>RO. And the e-plus program
>does need to be tweeked.There
>are many welfare rancher IMHO.
>But there is a finite
>amount of public lands for
>draws hunts in the units.
>I'd hate to see the
>forests crawling with hunters like
>UT,CO during my hunt.


Can you tell me which one's are 100% draw? Undersubscribed?
 
E-Plus has become a joke. Should LO' s that clearly contribute to habitat receive authorizations? Absolutely.

The water argument is is somewhat smoke and mirrors. During our worst drought years how many ranchers left their waters active after they moved/removed the cattle? None that I know, in fact I helped turn more than a few off.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-15 AT 07:12PM (MST)[p]Saw them doing research for this year on HTH and G&F odds sheet.
Outfitter pool for sure.
 
That doesn't surprise me that the outfitters pool would be. There are no nr cow tags in the draw. I would guess that most residents feel as I do and have no desire to use an outfitter to hunt cows in the proverbial back yard. I Think you would have a hard time finding under prescribed cow hunt in the residents draw pool.
 
This is bad news.
Here is the text from the bill.

HOUSE AGRICULTURE, WATER AND WILDLIFE COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL 616 52 ND LEGISLATURE -STATE OFNEW MEXICO - FIRST SESSION , 2015
LOSSES TO CROPS AND RANGELANDS.
.200641.3
AN ACT
RELATING TO THE PUBLIC PEACE, HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE;
PROVIDING FOR TEMPORARY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT OF ELK
OVERPOPULATION STATEWIDE; PROVIDING FOR TWENTY PERCENT
REDUCTION IN ELK POPULATION IN DEGRADED ELK HUNTING UNITS;
PROVIDING FOR ONE HUNDRED PERCENT INCREASE IN LANDOWNER HUNTING
TAGS TO RANCHERS AND FARMERS WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED SIGNIFICANT
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO:
SECTION 1. TEMPORARY PROVISION--ELK REDUCTION RULE--
DEGRADED RANGE AND CROPLAND--ONE HUNDRED PERCENT INCREASE IN
HUNTING TAGS.--The department of game and fish shall implement
the game commission elk population reduction rule to reduce elk
herds by twenty percent in elk hunting units where the range
resource and cropland has been degraded by overpopulation of

HAWC/HB 616
elk. The department shall achieve this reduction by issuance
of one hundred percent more landowner hunting tags to ranchers
and farmers who receive tags in fiscal year 2016. The
commission shall adopt a rule to provide that landowners
receive a sufficient number of tags to offset both small and
large landowners' economic losses from elk degradation of range
or cropland. The director of game and fish shall report the
results of this program of elk population management to the
legislative finance committee and interim committees assigned
to hear testimony on wildlife management issues by December 1,
2016.
.200641.3
- 2 -
 
It is worse than you think..

EPLUS program landowners already receive about 19,000 transferable elk tags a year of the roughly 40,000 licenses that Game and Fish makes available. Rep. Gomez wants to give the landowners an additional 19,000 tags, WHICH WOULD LEAVE JUST 1,500 TAGS FOR THE DRAW!
 
>Just about the only way the
>non res. hunter can get
>a good NM elk tag
>is to buy it from
>the LO !! I would
>love to see the Rancher
>I have been buying a
>tag from be given a
>few more, both my boys
>and brother would grab them
>up quick. I have hunted
>big bulls 3 years in
>a row now because of
>LO tags. Cost me a
>boat load of money but
>IMO it is money well
>spent. After NM cut the
>non res out like they
>did they made it a
>pay to play program and
>I'm payin because I plan
>on playin !!!


You do realize you can get an OTC archery ES, OTC bull rifle, and limited draw cow or bull tags in CO for half the price as what these LO charge for a cow tag?
I get it, Land owners are a great resource for our wildlife and they provide habitat, water and food for animals. But I really do not like how they issue UW tags to every person that owns 10 acres anywhere near elk habitat. LO tags should only go to large ranches that contribute natural resources to our wildlife.
 
Bro, are you drunk? Making it up as you go along? Or just out of your mind?

Show some damn proof to back up what you claim on here

You start this kind of ##### at frequent intervals, get in over your head, and then tend to disappear

Nothing personal against you J, but the games are getting a bit old no

Adam
 
I was just talking to the head of e-plus in SF G&F the other day and in an hour conversation on LO ranch issues,draws and hunting here in general,he said nothing about such an increase or them coming from draw pool.
We were talking about cuts in LO tags. At least here.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-15 AT 09:14PM (MST)[p]Adamn... Those are the numbers... Do the research... The bill clearly states %100 increase...

I guess I have learned that you can put the info out there, there will be some attacking but at some point it just isn't worth it and I let it go...
 
Henry..
That is where this is different... Typically the Legislature doesn't have anything to do with game management, they leave it up to to Commission to set the rules but with this bill and memorial they are setting management rules.

Another thing... When we are applying for elk hunt was can all check that box to be on a list for these type of dep issues. It was part of the public draw and it is just part of the process. NOW those potential hunts can be given LO to be sold... so what is going to happen to that part of the draw process..
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-15 AT 09:34PM (MST)[p]

The temporary tags won't come from the COER allotment. They're issued thru the population reduction provision.

A good way to decimate a herd regardless. But, they're not eating my crops, if they were I might have a different opinion.
 
This stinks for the average resident hunter. But they should have gone after landowner tags long before cutting 40% of NR tags and 100% of cow elk tags. Very short sighted to eliminate the average NR from the political process.

However as a NR I think this is great! Give all the tags to landowners. No NR cap and the extra tags will drive prices down. Look at the bright side, you can still buy a tag every year as a resident...
 
Come on Jason, enough with the melodrama...there is no "attacking" on my part, thought I'd made that clear?

If the partisan claims you make on here cannot withstand challenge, then why even make them? Why not just keep your ball and stay home?

And instead of "letting it go" and scuttling off, how about a little bit of substantiated follow through?

Do my research??? heh, the burden of proof is on you dude...

Adam
 
Have any of you read the Memorial? Here is a paragraph from the fiscal impact report, the paragraph I assume was written by the G&F. The wording of HB 616 is not up yet even though it was tomorrow is the hearing?

"While this large-scale increase in licenses would initially increase revenues and result in decreased elk populations, the higher levels would not be sustainable. The elk populations would decline, leading to significantly reduced numbers of
licenses being issued, quickly increasing levels of public dissatisfaction, and a measurable decrease in the economic value of elk and elk hunting in the state which is currently estimated to be over $100 million annually. In addition, as the quality and quantity of the elk herds declines, the value of the ?landowner authorizations? [tags] will create a cascading downward economic trend."

It's common sense, if you increase tags to one group you have to either mismanage by killing more elk or decrease tags to another group.

Landowners and Outfitters get approximately 19,776 (18,500+1276) tags while public draw hunters (res & NR) get 19720 (18654+1066). I guarantee no other western state subsidizes landowners and outfitter by giving them over 50% of available tags the way NM does. Now they want more.

This tread does highlight the issue in NM. Farmers asking for more subsidies instead of working with G&F to fence out animals. Ranchers using the plight of farmers to get more welfare. Rich NRs praising being able to hunt whenever the want. Less affluent NRs complaining they can't hunt NM.
 
Ranchers need to ranch. Farmers need to farm. They do not need to gouge Residents and Non-Residents at 1000% the actual cost of a tag. If the ranchers and farmers wanted elk gone they would allow affordable tags and free trespass, instead its a cash cow or free handout of a natural resource the belongs to the people of New Mexico.
 
Jason,I'll call Don Tripp tomorrow and get the bill data in whole.
And I fully understand how poorly the process works here,and the Legislature sticking their well paid off noses into Dept policies.

Hell, 90% of us want the Lic. for illegals gone,and they stick it in a commitee to die instead of open straight vote.Should have been done deal 1st day.
Dunn and his tactics are just coming to light,and he JUST got elected,barely.

But trying to pit resident hunters against landowners and non-residents is not useful IMHO.
It's what PETA would do.Sierra Club,FOE,WEG,etc...
If it's really being slammed thru,good on you then.

Again,these type of tactics have raised my concern as to who is behind NMWF now.
 
A+!

With this current system of unit wide tags etc, it could really get interesting!

I do not think it will be this year, but they could actually do this. Then just issue landowners the tags to broker.

The system is already in place!

Offer 3 public tags for $10,000, and have a few game wardens. They can get by this!

Highest bidder wins, and then we will all be talking about the good ole days!
 
I had many good years of elk hunting in your state. I gave up after the last move to 6% for NR. When USO sued Arizona I called your G&F about the landowner tags. She told me that 80% of the cow tags were never used. Does that support the damage arguement? No. I figure it is your state and you can destroy public family hunting if you want to. Just leave AZ alone.
 
Sad to say, our state does look like it's trying to destroy public hunting. Any sportsman in favor of this bill must be able to afford land owner MB tags, the average Joe can barely afford a DIY trip these days. This bill passes and it will be taking away from children wanting to learn to elk hunt in this state as well. If this is truly about population reduction there are plenaty of other routes to take, this seems to be nothing more then a really strategically planned way for landowners to make more money. I've done my share of rebuilding fence in the Pecos, and dealt with deer eating our winter pastures crop, its part of what comes with the territory. Sad Sad Sad
 
Don't think there are many sportsman in favor of this.

NMhunter4life, thanks for stating the facts.

Jamaro, again with the scare tactics. Really 1500 for the draw give me a break that is ridiculous. It is an increase in tags, not same amount of tags stolen from the draw hunts. And only in some units.

Still a bad idea but.

Again I think that most sportsman are not in favor of this, including myself and most I have talked to.

I did like the idea someone had, if there are so many on your land and need some killed, I am sure you could post on here that you are a private land owner with to many elk on your land if anyone who drew a license wants to hunt some elk. Free of charge or even a minor fee.
 
Live4muleys 2 nd that or actually 3rd that. If it's truly population issue open your gates with written permission. CASH COW seems more the motivator here.
 
This is why it is so hard to fight these things but we will be there again... In the meantime keep calling and being heard


Rep. Bealquin "Bill" Gomez (District 34/Do?a Ana County) RADICAL LEGISLATION (HM 114 & HB 616) that would give landowners a "100 PERCENT INCREASE IN HUNTING TAGS ...FOR TEMPORARY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT OF ELK STATEWIDE..." has now been rolled over to be heard NEXT WEDNESDAY (March 11) AT 8 AM IN ROOM 315.

The committee room was stacked this morning with sportsmen but committee members were called to the House floor before the bills could be heard.

Your calls and emails are making a huge difference, but let's keep up the heat!
 
Basically, it will not be heard until Wed... From what i have been told it was a real circus up there... I don't think Gomez had any clue what he was really asking for... The place was packed by sportsmen and sportswomen in opposition to it.. BUT KEEP CALLING... This could very easily be a tactic to keep it going because many sportsmen just don't have the time to show up twice for the same committee...
 
8 am room 315 BUT things that have been rolled over have a habit of moving... If it changes I will let you know
 
So if the LO get 19,000 more tags they should be cheaper for the NR to buy.(Crossing fingers) or do you think them trying to sell 30,000 they would get higher.
How many tags did the NR lose in the changing of the this latest go around with tags getting taken. NONE they had already lost the % last time to a 6% draw, NOW it just might be residents who lose tags back to the LO. I wonder if Pronghorn tags will be on that cutting block. Those Ranch lands you use to get to hunt might now dry up to LO tag holders only.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
We are talking about elk tags not pronghorn.If overpopulation was really the issue an option would be to make the elk draw similar to the prong horn draw and issue tags married to certain ranches... as far as NR getting only 6 %.... boo hoo. .. they can make it 3% and charge double for all I care... yo u dont like your 6% ? Then become a resident! !!!
 
Reduce the elk population by issuing more tags in the draw or more depredation tags. MY wife was just called for a depredation hunt in unit 51B. We were told that she was number 25 of the 25 depredation tags to be issued. Not sure how much of an inpact that will do. I don't think they should go to the landowners. Just my 2 cents.
Mike
 
Why be such an ahole? No one said we miss hunting NM. We have better elk here in AZ and we never let politicians and Ranchers make them into hairy sacks of money. It is your problem that you have a state full of stupid people and I wouldn't live there if elk tags were free.
 
To be such anti NM, you took the time to come to this state conference and post. It is kind of ironic!
 
Yep elk tags to start.
Do you really think if LO get more tags those LO that don't have elk on their range BUT have alot of Speed Goats/Deer/Etc aren't going to start asking for some more tags. Sit back and watch and you will get taken to the cleaners. Now those tags will get sold to the NR hunters because they can't draw a tag and residents who will be willing to buy them.

Not Anti NM just don't like the way the NR tag cut came down, remember all those posts on how great it was to jump your odds by a small % point and kick the NR hunters to a draw % that just sucked.

Now those who thought it was funny are getting the $hitty end of the stick handed to them and are making the same sounds we did.

Now those LO feed alot of animals that you all draw tags for sooner or later they are going to get as many of them tags as they can, kind like what the residents did to the NR awhile back they ask for and got a huge amount of tags from the NR draw so HOW does it really feel to get that stick handed right back to you.............

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Like I said earlier Ditto, give the landowners more tags, NR will buy them up. Your just getting a taste of your own medicine. Indeed, I think it is quite IRONIC, lol. Listening to the little squeals. When I see how decisions are made in the state, the answer is no I would not become a resident ever. Good luck boys, we are still getting our tags. Looks like your legislature had motives when they stripped the non-res tags after all. wink wink. But then you probably didn't see it coming just that you were going to have a 5% better chance vs 4%. By the way, maybe a few non-residents helped in the decision to have more landowner tags come about. Wink wink.
 
Wink Wink,,

What has ruined hunting in all states in the west is the HORN PORN!

Everyone wants a 400 bull like they see on the Primos videos.

I would say a huge % of NM hunters would not have agreed to the 6% etc.

Just keep on keeping on playing the point game in other states!
 
Sure glad to hear others are not interested in moving to NM. Cant think of a better place to live.
 
Jamaro,
Thank you for bringing bills like this to our attention. I think the NMWF does a good job of informing people about bills that affect hunting. The problem I have with your organization is that you seem to be pitting residents vs. nonresidents and landowners vs. public land hunters. Then you sensationalize things and start completely fabricating numbers like you did in some of your posts in this thread. Please just give us the facts and let us form our own opinions.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-15 AT 03:00PM (MST)[p] Nothin wrong with being a NR and wanting to hunt here, but being A NR and feeling entitled to our states benefits is a different story, I know a ton of residents who can't even draw a decent tag, why should you NR ? So you who have such strong negative opinions about the issues IN OUR STATE... feel free to not WASTE anymore time crying about it.
 
A-holes are all the NR who clame to not care about what's going on in NM "Mr. Arizona " and yet still find the time to cry like babies about it. . We get it NR are wounded about being given 6% of tags. ?? WA WA.. how do you think the residents here who haven't drawn in fifteen years feel? You people who are posting on this threads from other states expressing your love for the "PROPOSED BILL " should take your opinions and give them to other like minded idiots and not to us.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-15 AT 06:49PM (MST)[p]Not drawing in 15 years, I haven't drawn a LE unit in AZ 16 years and in Utah it been 15 years Now WYO it been 6 years, But have hunted deer and elk in a lot of places that wasn't trophy unit every year. BUT last year was the first time in all those years I didn't draw a tag in any State (including NM) and didn't get to hunt deer or elk in some place. I didn't even draw a Archery tag as a 5th choice in 2 states. Maybe those who haven't drawn a tag in 15 years in NM should try a different unit then the units that only have a couple of tags.
Valles Caldera is just to hard to draw.

He!! maybe this year I will draw 3 or 4 I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I don't limit my hunts to just rifle, I play all the seasons Archery, Muzzy, rifle and Hatchet Wait a minute No hatchet season. I help my odds, Maybe they should try some different ways too.

Now Bugle remember that those State animals are running on a lot of Federal Lands that is owned by all Americans taxpayers, New Mexico state might owes us grazing fees or maybe some taxpayers tags like the ones the ranchers are getting. Hope you draw some good tags, I know I have put in for some good ones, so now if the Draw Gods smile on me, I might be in NM this fall you just never know.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
@posts 40,49,50--- "like minded idiots"...heh, classic choice of words given your foolish ranting in the name of all "like minded" residents

Who is this "us"?? You do not speak for me, yes a resident, 4th generation...public draw applicant every year since the inception of limited permitting.

Post 48---exactly, I have nothing personal against Jason, just find his antics on here in the name of the WF tiresome and annoying.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-15 AT 07:28PM (MST)[p]We'll for those residents I don't speak for can disregard (MYOB)and to be more specific "US " is the resident sportsmen who are fighting to keep this bill from going into effect, gator as a tax paying American there are some similar things I pay for in your state as well, yet you don't find me saying foolish things like "crossing my fingers land owners get 100% increase off your resident tags".! Poor choice of open opinion my friend.
 
Mind my own business eh? What the hell are you talking about? How do you know that I am not fighting tooth and nail? Because I don't blither on like a damned fool on the internet?

Poor choice of opinion? Another classic...heh, you're a real piece of work "friend".

Frikken tool :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-15 AT 10:44PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-15 AT 10:42?PM (MST)

You're right I don't know. If you have an issue feel free to p.m. me so it can be resolved. Also it's OPEN OPINION smart guy...WHEN SOMEONE HAS AN OPINION THEY MAKE THE "CHOICE "TO SHARE IT OR KEEP IT TO THEMSELVES.

IN OTHER WORDS PLEASE KEEP IT TO YOURSELF ?
ONE OTHER THING EINSTEIN. .. NEVER START A SENTENCE WITH BECAUSE.
 
Agreed greatwestern, don't lump "US" into your thoughts. A hunter is a hunter no matte where they are coming from. Actually I have run into just as many non-residents in the field that have been friendly and helpful as residents. A hunter is a hunter.

Just like some non-residents coming on here and saying ridiculous stuff that makes you think every non-resident is like that (which there not), the same can happen with residents (which WE are not).

I like this state and the people in it, but it is okay to like others to and share a little bit.

Agreed with someone above, if you don't get drawn stop putting for the states hardest to draw hunts.

NMhunt4life well stated above.

BECAUSE I hunt. BECAUSE we hunt. BECAUSE we enjoy to hunt. Whoops did I just start that with because.
 
I am not against sharing with NR!! So I apologize to any NR who DID NOT POST A RIDICULOUS COMMENT, and that actually like to hunt here.I actually helped a guy from utah harvest a 348 " Bull last year . I had never even met him til the hunt. My point is this is a touchy subject for a lot of people, so anyone (not just NR ) WHO IS GOING TO POST BS LIKE THAT should just not speak. Also I corrected the word US in my previous post. Same goes for you Live4muleys...you know how the P.M. button works.
Like I said earlier if it doesn't pertain to you then disregard. Again sorry for using such a lose term.
 
10-4 Muleys, generalization is the Achilles heel of many folk's thinking, particularly when it comes to scapegoating and condemnation.

Follow your own "advice" little Bugler and give it a rest, your braying has become redundant and superfluous.
 
Bugle I think you are getting me wrong, I said I might draw a 3 or more tags this year, After last year not draw crap, I'M HOPING a draw a tag or two this year even if they aren't trophy areas ones. I would like a general season tag or two at least They don't have to be 2B or anything like that Unit 10 would be fine.
As far as the LO doing a tag grab, It just seems to me form a NR point of view is the same thing we felt happen to us, And the residents that cheered for it against us NOW know that feeling we had.
You got to know we are hoping for more tags to hunt in the great State of NM either thru a draw or buying from a LO.
I would rather it was in a draw, BUT will take them whatever way they come.
So don't fault us for hoping for more tags one way or another.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Here is the problem with bugle.
1. He feels his opinion is the only important one.
2. He is not willing to listen or consider that someone else opinion though different, may be just as valid as his.
3. He is quite myopic in his opinions, so its hard not to try to fire him up.

Yes it would be nice if these people would share the facts such as bugle and jamaro and no be so defensive if someone is not part of their Reich.

The fact is they typically spread propaganda, they have a very one sided self serving opinion. here it is and it never changes: Non landowner, resident hunters should be able to hunt everywhere they want and when they want. Oh i know I simplified it, but generally that is what they are about.

My facts, they try to cause issues amongst like minded people (supporters of hunters) who should be banning together, in order to gain some advantage in their opinion. They pit landowners against hunters, they pit non-residents against resident hunters, they pit higher income esidents against lower income residents. They play to gain advantage.

So its great to bring bills to peoples attention, but stop your bs posting of untruth.
You did the same thing with your bill that took non res tags down. You hurt new mexico, you didn't help the state.

And just because a non-resident posting about your state has a contrary opinion doesn't mean they shouldn't express it, it only shows your ignorance.

When and not if more lo tags are given out, if not this bill then the next, the higher income, landowners who pay most of the taxes in your state, who educate your kids, will have taken back a little bit that you took in your last coup. They will in turn do what is best for new mexico, they will bring the non-resident back into play as they were before, benefitting both the state and hunters in general.
 
Gator, I may have misunderstood you, or it may have been the way you stated it...either way I apologise if I did just that. Bird, so we are clear I was born and raised in central N.M.on 4500 acres and have been fighting both ends my whole life. I know what it is dealing with trespassers, fixing fence, losing winter pastures, Having cattle shot and left.... so my family is part of the percentage who pay more taxes to "educate are kids " and whatever else you stated land owners do. I am not close minded at all I may have came across that way when I became defensive toward what came across to me as malicious comments toward the N.M. sportsmen. Before using the term ignorance be sure you know who and what your talkin to or about. Again, sorry Gator if I misunderstood.
 
If landowners want to increase the number of tags they get thats fine but make them Ranch Only tags. If you have too many elk on YOUR land, not the public land within your borders, then kill the elk on your land. Many, if not all of these ranches, have public within their borders. The abuse of the system is the problem, not the number of elk. What ever happened to elk use acres? Give landowners the tags they deserve and stop the unit wide crap. Many will not qualify for the landowner tag "welfare" the state has instituted. Those that have a legit issue with elk damage of their property will have ranch only tags to use at their disposal. My guess is that all these guys that are screaming the loudest about the elk eating all "their" grass would'nt want this system because it would degrade the value of the tags.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-15 AT 02:03PM (MST)[p]The bill was withdrawn, but the amended memorial passed on a 7-1 vote. The bill had almost no chance of making it out of the house anyway given the 7 working days left in the session. The amendment strikes the 100% increase to just an increase.

This is an intimidation tactic to get more LO tags, if not now in the future.

It would be nice if sportsmen could use this opportunity to devise another way to reward ranchers for providing habitat for wildlife (not compensate for damage which would be illegal).

Perhaps having G&F temporarily auction off these tags directly (ebay would work) then pay ranchers a reasonable trespass fee to use their land assuming they keep their wells on year around. The money could also be used to help fence off the fields of farmers so wildlife would not destroy their crops. One important thing is to stop treating farmers and ranchers in the same manner, they face different problems when it comes to wildlife and just issuing tags without individual consideration is ridiculous.

That is just one suggestion, I am sure someone can come up with a better one to reward ranchers for providing habitat that does not involve issuing tags.
 
Awe,, everyone now can see who the real culprits are in new mexico when it comes to tags. After all the non resident bashing, finally the new mexico residents can see what's really happening over there. I made this statement last year referring to the landowners being the one's with their hand in the cookie jar basically laughing their way to the bank, while most ignorant new mexican's kept attacking the non residents. I kinda hope this bill surfaces again in the future and passes after all the crap non residents took there recently over tag allotments. It's funny to watch the residents wake up and attack themselves!!! Doubling those lo tags for sale to wealthy non residents, and taking them out of the resident pool mainly would be some sour medicine to swallow. What a deal!!!
 
Can someone get this guy a dog, he obviously is dying to have somebody listen to him. Actually, I do not think it will be fair to subject a dog to that. Thanks for your thoughts Couse guy, you should go rant and share your thoughts with the folks in other states.
 
I heard a little more about this proposal yesterday. It was not as sinister as it was made out to be.
It appears it was just an ill conceived plan to help a couple of ranchers in a unique situation.
It sounds like a legitimate problem that needs to be resolved for these ranchers, and hopefully NMGF and the rancher can come up with a solution that is not so controversial.
 
Sounds like i hit a little to close to home over there yesterday with my post. Probably shouldn't have used the word ignorant, but it sure seemed that way last year with all the non res bashing. I've always thought the new mexico residents should have turned their animosities towards their own landowners since that's where most of the tags were going, and not a few non resident tags. Trimming a tag here and there by reducing non resident quotas by fractional percentages seemed like the wrong way to skin the problem, when landowners were literally milking the system right in front of it's residents eyes. When people realize their fighting the wrong fight so to speak, it's a hard pill to swallow, i get it. I'm glad that the spotlights on the real culprit now though , and that was the reason for my previous post guys. Several deleted post after mine let me know that you guys probably get it now, which is a good thing!!! New mexico is a wonderful state with wonderful people. I hope you guys get what you want over there tag wise, just watch your own more carefully. I wish the posts wouldn't have been deleted in response to mine however, it only would have made me see how close to home i really hit yesterday, which was my whole point with my post. Get fired up over there, but make sure the fire burns the correct culprits, your own landowners. It's crazy arizona doesn't have to give a single landowner tag, and new mexico has to give the farm away. There is no diff between landowners here and there, what a mystery!!!! Go get um guys.
 
There are no culprits.
There is plenty of misinformation, as Paul stated tho.

You can wait 16yrs and points there in AZ and wait....coues....Or buy a lottery ticket.

Landowners take no tags out of draw pool that is managed that I can see. I'm talking elk.
There are only so many animals on so much public to hunt reasonably.
The LO alotment needs to be tweeked,not taken away. Should be RO .Should be land limits.
It does and can work.
Maybe a call to G&F about how E-plus program works would be a good starting place.
Relying on correct total info from WF is looking to be dubious to me tho.
 
"Relying on correct total info from WF is looking to be dubious to me tho."

If you tell the masses the truth, you may not get the response you desire.
 
Coues is right but when the NM res was thinking they would all be drawing tags by cutting the non res out and turning hunter against hunter on here the G&F and landowners were laughing. The G&F laughing at the res for thinking they were special and the landowner laughing because the res couldn't see the forest for the trees. lol
I didn't like it that year but..... it forced me to look for a landowner tag and now ....I'M LOVIN IT !!! I KNOW I'm chasing big bulls again this year.
 
I have changed my mind on this issue. I now feel NM should give all of your tags to LO. My wife just lost her Dad who was 97 but he did leave her a lot of money so this average Joe can afford to buy me some tags. Life is good. GO LANDOWNERS!!
 
You gotta do what you gotta do. It's every man for him self now days in NM. They drew the line in the sand...
 

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