My Encore is plucking my last nerve

Neil

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7
10 Years ago, when Colorado offered their one time only point splitting scheme, my buddy and I cashed in some of our points and went muzzle loader back pack elk hunting in unit 66. We hunted too hard, lost a lot of weight, and brought home nothing but a coyote. That's right, after missing 3 bull elk, my buddy shot a coyote on the last day. We were used up.

Anyway, we finally caught up to the point creep, and drew the same license. We still have all the GPS way points. Water, wallows, etc.

Last time my Encore, wearing a Tasco scope for load development only, shot a 1.5" five shot group at 100 yards with 95 grains 777 lit by a low power Remington primer, pushing 405 grain Powerbelts. I hate that 777. Part way through the hunt, we had to take my gun apart, and lube the trigger with Chapstick, because it was so corroded, I could barely pull it.

This time, I was hoping to use Blackhorn 209 and a better bullet. Nothing is working. Federal 209A primers now seal sooo much better than the Remingtons that leaked soot all through my action. I've cleaned the flash hole with a 1/8" drill in the back and torch nozzle cleaners in the front.

First I tried the Hornady 350Gr FPB, then 405 grain Powerbelts. Terrible. Then I cut off the QLA, recrowned, and tried the Federal 270Gr BOR Lock bullets. Initially, they seemed to get progressively better as I increased the powder charge up to 120 Grains (volume). I thought I had 2" groups, but today I went out to confirm, and got crap. Often, I get two close, and a third 8" away.

The scope is an old 6.5 X 20 Leupold. Can this scope take this punishment? It's given me .5 MOA with a custom 6mm AI, but doesn't seem properly responsive turret changes.
It was hot today. 85 degrees. I tried cutting the powder a little, but still bad.

My buddies gun which was highly suspect last time is putting three 338 Gr Powerbelts into a 2" triangle. I'll try them next, but they are definitely not my first choice. I'm open to recommendations, except that now that I've cut off the QLA, the Hornady's are a pain to load.
 
At this point I'm open to almost anything. Can you recommend a few specific guns?

After this hunt any inline I have will be sold anyway. We're in our middle 50's, and if we ever drew this license again we wouldn't be able to rough it anyway.

Here in PA we have two muzzle Loader seasons. First is a week of doe only. Anything loaded from the front is legal. It's in the middle of archery season, and I'm not giving up the option of shooting a buck to carry a gun. The second is Flintlock only.

For the moment, I'm going to swap scopes, and try again, if only to rule out my concerns with the current Leupold. Probably even try the Powerbelts before shopping for another gun.
 
I have two Encores and had similar problems. I went online and found a gunsmith in Oklahoma that reworks the trigger mechanisms.He installs different springs and some other fine tuning. I had him set the pull to 2.5 lbs. I also spent a ton on ammo and powder. I ended up with 90 grs.by volume of BH 209 and 338 platnum powerbelts. I had to backdown the primers and now use Remington They now shoot really well. I limit my shots to under 150 yards and have taken several elk and 12 deer. I will be going deer hunting in Kansas and Colorado and elk hunting in Colorado this year again. Freddy Dodge (of Gold Rush) is a good friend and he has gone to a Gun Werks rifle with (I believe) 120 grains and 300 powerbelts. He holds the #1 and #2 Canadian moose with a muzzle loader.
 
Maybe had some progress yesterday. After replacing the Leupold with a Nikon, the Federals were still spraying all over. I've been hunting PA whitetails with Contender carbines since 07, and I'm used to putting the gun on the front bag near the hinge. That's the way I hold the gun if I have the time. Was doing the same with the Encore, just because.

I noticed my buddy was setting the front rest forward like other rifles, so I tried it the same time I switched to 338 Platinum Powerbelts. First group of three shots was 1-1/2" at 100 yards. 100 grains of BH 209, same load that my buddies gun liked (one group). My shoulder was hamburger, so I'll have to confirm later, and try the Federals with the same rest arrangement.

I had intended to try the Thor's, but the whole thing kind of snuck up on us, and I started with what was easy to get. I really didn't think we had a chance of drawing this year. I would have put in for a point, but my buddy said try for the license. I suspect we got the only two NR licenses in the 14 point pool.
 
338 Platinum Powerbelts confirmed.
100,105, and 110 grains all give 1-1/2" groups in almost the same place. Tomorrow, I'll push on to 115 and 120 grains, then pull the scope and start working on open sights.

I've read complaints of regular Powerbelts blowing up at high velocities. Apparently the Platinums have a smaller hollow cavity under the tip. I'd take the extra velocity as long as I'm confident they won't fail.

The Powerbelt website claims the Platinums are significantly faster than even lighter bullets with the same charge of BH 209. What's up with that? Doesn't seem like bullet design should make that much difference.
 
After many hours testing loads in my encore. My encore ended shooting the 250 grain Barnes spitfire tmz with 100 grains of triple seven. Remington 209ml primer. Before Utah changed the scope law I was shooting a 1x tc harken hunter and shooting 1 1/2" groups at a 100 yards. Ended up taking 2 bucks with this setup one at 267 yards and the other at 150 both bucks dropped in there tracks. Curious to see what the new 4.5x14 will produce
 
One thing to watch out for with the TC Encore is that the lug bolt that holds the stock to the barrel/trigger mechanism will loosen up sometimes especially when shooting hot loads. It requires an allen wrench to tighten. It is under the cap on the pistol grip. I check mine frequently as I have both of mine come loose. I actually broke the stock on the wood version I have and they sent me a new stock no charge. COULD BE VERY DANGEROUS'
 
Computer issues first: I can't see the last few posts unless I open in Chrome instead of Firefox. What's up with that?

My Encore is still holding under 2" groups all the way up to 120 Gr BH209. The chronograph says my last 3 averaged 1930 fps. A long way short of the 2169 fps listed on the Powerbelt web site for 120 grains BH209 in a 27" barrel. Mine is only 25.5" now that I cut the QLA off. The generally accepted rule of thumb of 1% per inch should put me near 2130 fps from my barrel, so in my case, the Powerbelt website sems wildly optimistic.

http://powerbeltbullets.com/Blackhorn209-powder-zeroed-at-100yards.php
 
I too, am shooting a T/C Encore Endeavor and having a heck of a time finding the right load. Went out to the range today w/BH209 and some Thor 300gr .501 bullets. I shot about 8-10 shots at 50 yds with some good luck, if you call 2-3" groups good! That is about the best this gun will shoot w/this load. I was shooting 90 gr of BH w/a Winchester 209 primer. Unfortunately once I moved out to 100 yds, I had shots everywhere! I am really wondering what is going on. Shooting the 90 gr gives me the "best" group, which is quite considerate. Another side note, are you hunting in Colorado during the muzzleloader season? If so, I don't believe scopes are permitted, only open sights. Any help w/my load developement would be greatly appreciated.
 
I've only shot one group with less than 100 grains of BH209. It was clearly opening up, so I think you should try more powder. I would not have gone to 120 had my neighbor not been sharing his experience and pushing me on. The groups moved, but they were 1.5-2" with 100, 105, 110 ,and 120 grains. I skipped 115, intending to back down if 120 didn't work.

The scope is only for load development work. Now that I have something working, I'll pull it and start working with open sights.

Does your barrel have ANY internal damage? My buddies gun has a loose spot just before the bullet seats. Something about being loaded an excessively long time, maybe Pyrodex pellets, but I'm not sure. Anyway, he's hoping for 4" groups at a hundred, and from what I see, he's not going to do that good. We're hoping going to heavier bullets helps improve ignition. Too bad we can't use pellets. 150 grains of pellets might keep the bullet in a better place.
 
I think all ML are female? They each seem to have a mind of their own....which can be a good thing. In my case I had to have the triggers reworked as they were about 6lbs and almost impossible to squeeze off. After that it was guess work to get the right load. In my case I found less powder was better and have ended up with 90 gr. Bh209. Sabots are a no no in Colorado as are scopes so I bought several slugs...even the old maxi-balls nothing was doing worth a darn until I started several types and weights of Power Belts I get resonably good groups but not "tack-driver" accuracy. Good enough to hunt with, and I have had excellent results.
 
I'm with Frontier Gander!

120 Grains of BH209 is Perty Damn HOT!

Last Summer/Fall We Dialed 5 Different Guns in with 338 Platinum PowerBelts & BH209 Powder(90-110 Grains!)

We Shot over 800.00 worth of Ammo before We Figured it out!

PISS ON Triple777!

You Haven't Got a Sore Shoulder Until You Shoot a New Remington with 200 Grains of Powder all day long!:D

Word of Warning:

The Remington will Safely Shoot it!

But the Load is way Too F'N HOT!












[font color="blue"]HUNTIN,FISHIN,AND LOVIN EVERY DAY,I WANNA SEE
THEM TALL PINES SWAY!
[/font]
 
95 BH209 is want my Omega likes best, 295 and 240 sabot both shoot good groups. Shooting 2" high at 100 and 5" at 200 with the (295) so I moving it up so it shoots higher at 100 and more dead on at 200 my feeling is my shots will far out then the 100 yd mark. My scope has the hash marks for a 300 yd shot, But you would have to shoot a lot more powder then 95 to get it close on all the hash marks, Putting the 200yd crosshairs on the top of 8" circle with a hair od white showing and they hit about 2 1/2 inch from the bottom of the circle in the kill zone, I m happy with how well it is grouping.

Did I say I love BH 209. No more 777 for me.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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Ok- so what are the complaints with Triple 7? I usually shoot FFF Black with roundballs, but I have an TC Contender that I use Triple 7 pellets. I know BH 209 is popular, but is there a serious issues with Triple 7 or is it just preference?
 
>Ok- so what are the complaints
>with Triple 7? I
>usually shoot FFF Black with
>roundballs, but I have an
>TC Contender that I use
>Triple 7 pellets. I
>know BH 209 is popular,
>but is there a serious
>issues with Triple 7 or
>is it just preference?

From my experience, there is no doubt BH209 is a cleaner powder. I can shoot over 25 shots and not have to clean until I get home. 777 requires much more frequent cleaning in my gun. And no "Crud Ring" with BH209.

BH209 is also much more accurate in my Encore. Not sure if it is because BH209 grains are more consistent in size than 777 and might therefore have a more consistent burn rate. Not sure. All I know is it shoots much more accurately.

In my Encore, it shoots faster as well. Can't find the chrono data I developed a while back, but BH209 was faster. Getting just over 2000 fps with 290 grain Barnes.

Unless you just like pellets, I can't come up with a way 777 is better than BH209.
 

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