My MT.EMILY GUIDED ELK HUNT

D

dogsalmon

Guest
Talked to outfitter on phone says mt emily is undered rated other units over rated in area.I ask what is the chances of 350 bull outfitter says their are more than people think in mt emily.Next question is about food informs me breakfast is like bacon eggs pancakes ham ect. good breakfast in mornings, lunch
sandwich fruit chips wont be back to camp for lunch, super steak,porkchops chicken ect.Meet outfitter at sportmen show ask same questions same answers.That good iam a meat and potatoes man.Outfitters informs me he has outfitter tags for the unit i book the hunt.Months go by dont hear from outfitter finally i call in sept. talk to outfitter inform me he has some good guide this year and they been seeing a lot of 330 to 380 bulls in mt emily. I tell outfitters that i went on a road trip looked over area seen bulls no shooters. told outfitters iam 61 no packing for me. he said thats why i have mules and horses. meet outfitters at interstate 84 and mt emily turnoff.head up forest service road 31 going between 30 and 60 mph on dirt road turn of on 3128 road going so fast that water goes over top of truck get into camp he ask if wayone would like to go scout both of us say yes inform me that he only has room for one ask if i will use my own truck,come back to camp we have super one hamburger on the very small buns and some beans to drink water or coke. iam thinking wheres the cook no cook just outfitterget up in morning breakfast is some eggs rice onions in a plastic throwing in hot water told to eat it when were out hunting on lunch its a bag of chips and crackers and peanut butter of nine days never had a lunch meet my guide at end of road followed us to out hunting area outfitter and client leave on 4 wheeler onceagain i driving my truck get out of truck in my guides truck ask guide what up what you been seeing guide says that hes been scouting around his house to far to drive up here i say oufitter said you people been seeing lots of big bulls he informs me that he has ony talk to outfitter twice and only meet him today informes me doesnot even know were we are to go ITS OPENING MORNING. we head over the ridge it so brushy could not judge bull it like jump shooting ask guide what are we doing in here he says dont know lets get the hell out of here and go find out own elk this is a joke we leave area and looking for our self see some bulls no shooters get back to camp its dark outfitter get in to camp dinner one hamburger with cheese and corn. Get up same thing for breakfast as first day told eat it while hunting leave camp give it to the birds no lunch again leave with guide see 9 bulls all over 300. Man with outfitter shoots 290 bull first day has to pack out for 2 days. he asks if he can have 2 burgers outfitter pauses then said ok. Next morning breakfast same thing i ask if he has anthing else for breakfast o yes i have some oatmeal ok reaches in box takes 2 packages of instant oatmeal puts in bowl Man with outfitter leaves heads home.Its only me and outfitter and dog in camp my guide had to go back to work leave camp i go where my guide and i seen a good bull outfitter go to see if he can find bull cant meet back at camp. DOG has got into food we left on table outfitter get back see this and BEATS the 12 month pup that night we see nothing. dinner noodles with cheese sause and corn no milk its sour. Morning same thing oatmeal no lunch crackers and peanut butter find no bulls get back to camp the pup had chewed on cape that was about 2 ft off ground guess what pup get beat again dinner some noodles and meat in bag threw into water to heatup.next morning outfitters informs me he has to go to town for food i ask where is the ham eggs potatoes bacon for breakfast informs me he has none we go out hunting no elk go to town i have to get gas outfitter go to town gets back to camp at 730 that night i got back a 1 so went scouting by myself onceagain.In the morning once again he went scouting one way me another no luck no big bulls.Next day went after some bulls i didnot see then so dont know how big started to snow white out back to camp outfitter gets on computer for hours could of went low. dinner potatoes steak corn. first good dinner in seven days Next morning go behind this parents house no elk outfitter says would you mind if i went and feed my horse it not been feed for a couple of days feed horse break drinking water outfitter say would you mind if i plow my drive way no elk back at camp dog gets into food another beating go looking for elk outfitter find some bulls to look at in morning dinner one porkchop for me one for him potatoes tell outfitter lets get up early we have a long walk and i dont walk as fast as you same thing for breakfast leave get to hunting area have long walk we start walking after about 1/2 hour look up outfitter about 400 yard ahead call on radio ask to hold up keep going say when you find large arrow in snow find arrow call outfitter call outfitter says follow arrow go to ridge and go down ridge dark cant find ridge call outfitter says cant miss ridge just go doen into the basin then i say no outfitter say then you give up on me i say no Ido find ridge go down ridge outfitter says you have run down ridge the elk are 1000 to 1500 yards below you and going into the timber get down their find elk one broke 6 point it smells winds me bust doen ridge outfitter calls on radio says you realy screwed that up now what you going to do elk came up other side 6x6 was only about 305 to 310 had at 398 yards let him go because outfitter kept telling that i had to help pack and new it was not do able.
 
holy crap......




great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
you should have challenged him to a spelling bee...


great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-09 AT 10:22AM (MST)[p]well name the dude!...its not illegal....

had one of them back in the 80's on a colorado hunt...he was just a cowboy not a hunter, left us to ourselve more then anything...sucks.....
 
i think i might have found someone i could beat at a spelling bee:)

seriously, these guys should have been able to get the point- with just a little effort.

sounds like it was a bad trip, what outfitter did you use? that would help make sure someone else doesn't have the same problems you had.

when i was guiding, one thing you awlays made sure of- the clients were feed well! you cant always control the hunting but you can ALWAYS control a good camp.

hey and what are you guys[ d-13 and kilowatt] doing over here? shouldn't you be raising hell in the campfire? it must be getting slow around here for you to be expanding your forums:)

a little time around some good ol' oregonians will do you well, might make you a better person;)
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-09 AT 02:27PM (MST)[p]I think it is obvious who his guide was if you read the posts on oregon spike hunting in big bull areas.
 
KILLERBEE,

I look at ALL FORUMS.....so if I make a comment that is my business, not yours. I don't waste my time trying to decipher that write up.

I have friends who live in Oregon and some are MM members too.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-09 AT 04:20PM (MST)[p]>KILLERBEE,
>
>I look at ALL FORUMS.....so if
>I make a comment that
>is my business, not yours.
>I don't waste my time
>trying to decipher that
>write up.
>
>I have friends who live in
>Oregon and some are MM
>members too.


easy there big fella, i didn't say you shouldn't be here did i?
just noticed a couple guys we dont see around here. simple as that.

but back on topic, do you have an outfitter name?
 
I agree... think we all know who the outfitter is here and I'm disapppointed for this guy who obviously had a terrible hunt. Tough post to read yes but I get the gist of it, sounds like an awful experience and not at all what the outfitter had made it out to be. That said, there's always two sides to a story and I'll withold judgement until I hear the other side. I sure hope the outfitter, who we know frequently reads and posts on these forums, speaks up to defend himself if any of this isn't true and if he doesn't respond to defend himself, his guiding operation, and his livelihood then I guess we'll know what that means.

I completely agree with Killerbee on this one, guiding is tough business and you can't control the hunting but if it were me I'd be damn sure I did the best I could for my Client on the things which I CAN control... food, camp, packing, etc.

Bummer story to hear and sorry to the hunter / poster that he had such a bad experience.

LBR
 
One more thing to the guy who started this thread.... PLEASE post the outfitters name. You had an experience, good or bad, and nothing wrong with posting the name of the business you were dealing with. Hopefully we can figure out the name of the outfitter in your response :)

LBR
 
The outfitter is Bob Staples and his company is Blue Mountain Adventures out of La grande, OR. It is very unfortunate that this gentleman had such a difficult hunt. I am one who will not stand for beating a dog it is just so so wrong. I will not say much in this post however I will say that I have heard Mr. Staples talk about all of the 375 plus bulls in Mt. Emily.

I fell very bad for this gentleman and what he has witnessed and went through.
 
oh, no doubt beating that dog was his worst offense.....lol


great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
Lets here Mr. Staples side of the story...This guy that is saying all this, sounds drunk! Maybe just pissed he didnt get a "Big bull" or maybe really had a bad experiance...

muleyman
 
I am very interested to hear what Mr. Staples has to say as well. That is a shame if what has happened is true. You hear about it all the time on different websites.
 
I've been watching this and the "no spike hunting allowed" posts with much delite. I think in June or so it was indicated that Blue Mt received outfitter tags this year for 2 of the 3 here in NE Oregon. We'll just need to wait and see if there is any response Blue MT.
 
If Staples does not reply his silence will be deafening since it appears that he was on the internet during the hunt and is a frequent poster on this site. He talks big elk but I have yet to see proof that he has been involved with actual kills. It seems the big ones get away due to hunter error which may or may not be the case. However it is a lot harder to stretch scores when animals hit the ground. The story seems believable in the fact that the hunter seems just as upset about the poor food and mismanagement of the hunt as the "trophy potential" of the area. If the facts are as represented by the hunter it seems the outfitter is barely making it which makes it hard to prepare for the hunt, hire decent guides, scout properly etc. In these economic times I think these problems are fairly common for lower level outfits.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-09 AT 05:09PM (MST)[p]Another reason you do research on many different outfitters than just picking one. Staples was the only one with outfitter tags this year and its to bad. He's outfit is a joke and it puts a sour taste for the use of outfitter tags. Mt. Emily unit is very over rated and for that fact most units are. WANT BIGGER BULLS? GO TO DIFFERENT STATE!!!
 
Hey guys! I got a cpl of calls about this. I was the outfitter. No, my business is not a joke. I just got in today from guiding. Will reply to this post ASAP. Got a buck to get caped.
 
Bob has been on this site for a while now...and this "dogsalmon" is new and before we pass judement on Bob, lets wait to hear his side of it. This is his "way of life" and if someone is pissed about something and is blowing it WAY out of proportion, word of mouth is the worst kind of advertisment there is! So please before you judge, give'em both a chance. I see dogsalmon hasn't been back on or reply'd to anyone's comments since he posted this. I don't know either of these guys so I'm not on anyone's side.

muleyman
 
One thing for sure I'll bet Bob's post will be easier to understand. That dude must have been drunk when he posted that novel.
 
As I stated above, I completely agree with Muleyman on this. There are always two sides to a story and we know much more about Bob than the other new poster who started this thread. That said, the "facts" as stated by the poster don't sound good... but I'm witholding judgement until we get the other side of the story from Bob and can figure out whether those are really facts or just the words of a frustrated hunter who didn't get a 350 bull because of his own mistakes.

I'm also looking forward to hearing about the buck which Bob is caping out right now. The Mt Emily late buck hunt is finishing up as we speak and I can't wait to hear about the bucks coming out of there this year. I've got a bunch of buck points and this is one of the hunts I'm considering to burn my points on.
 
I want to apologize for the spelling and grammar and the length of my article.To the best of my knowledge what i said is 100% true.To muleyman gave up drinking in 1985 so not drunk.
 
word of mouth should be "the best" advertisment!

all i know is a guy, who i happen to be friends with, came on here 2 days ago [ or so] i didn't know who it was at the time, and laid some cliams, BMA called b.s.. one was that his hunter killed a 280 bull, now a guy who was in camp confirmed that his hunter killed a 280" bull.


i dont give a crud about how much a bull scores, but if you have your hunter shoot it, dont lie about it. a 280" bull shouldn't end up a 320" bull on your website[ the outfitter I used to work for pulled that crap all the time]

and if 1/2 of the camp quality is true, Blue mtn has alot to learn on how to run a good hunting camp
 
>As I stated above, I completely
>agree with Muleyman on this.
> There are always two
>sides to a story and
>we know much more about
>Bob than the other new
>poster who started this thread.
> That said, the "facts"
>as stated by the poster
>don't sound good... but I'm
>witholding judgement until we get
>the other side of the
>story from Bob and can
>figure out whether those are
>really facts or just the
>words of a frustrated hunter
>who didn't get a 350
>bull because of his own
>mistakes.
>
>

So if Cameron Hanes or Chuck Adams came on here with only 1 post under a username no one knew who they were; would that say they don't know what they are talking about? Does it really matter how many posts a person has on a website? What if they have thousands of posts on other hunting websites?
 
>So if Cameron Hanes or Chuck
>Adams came on here with
>only 1 post under a
>username no one knew who
>they were; would that say
>they don't know what they
>are talking about? Does
>it really matter how many
>posts a person has on
>a website? What if
>they have thousands of posts
>on other hunting websites?

Not at all, I never said Dogsalmon didn't know what he was talking about first off. My point was that we had one side of the story and that I'm interested in hearing the other side before passing judgement. I'm giving Bob a chance to offer his version of the story but it's going to be tough to discount what this poster has said, especially as it relates to the camp, food, dog beating, etc. If you frequent this site you know there are "trolls" who post crap stories to piss people off or whatever and usually those guys have only 1 post or a half dozen to their credit. In no way does that mean Dogsalmon is one of those guys but unfortunately I've read plenty of posts from these trolls who are just trying to get a rise out of guys on here for their own enjoyment - that was my point about him having only a few posts. The story told by Dogsalmon is very unfortunate and I feel bad for the guy. Much of what he describes will be difficult for Bob to argue with or discredit and I actually think he's going to have a hard time convincing anyone on here that he offered a top notch guided hunt based on what's been said already. That said, it's possible the hunter is pissed off about not shooting a 350 bull and exagerated some of what he said...I simply don't know but it's possible.

I don't know either of these guys and don't have a stake in the game either way, I'm just dissapointed for the hunter and as I said before, if I were the guide I would have done my damndest to at least have delivered on the camp aspect of the guided hunt and provided the meals promised, packing services, etc. What dogsalmon described is far from what I would expect if I'd bought an outfitter tag and been promised a fully guided hunt in one of Oregon's top elk units....opportunities at 300+ bulls aside, the entire story about the hunt is really sub-par for a professional guide service IMHO.

LBR
 
Dogsalmon I didn't say you were drunk...I only meant you sounded drunk for the way you wrote about your huntin trip! Have you read it yourself? Did it sound like normal person? Even besides the spelling, it was off, wayyy off. I do have a couple questions:

On Nov 17th you posted about bulls in Mt. Emily. On the post you asked Bob some questions and didn't once sound like you had or ever been hunting with him. Why didnt you "rip" him a new one if you had been upset about the hunt?

to shed horn freak: Have you ever hired Bob Staples yourself??? If not then you really have no right to say what you said, unless you have hired this outfitter first hand! One's opinion is made from experiences, otherwise I would call it gossip.

Blacktail-slayer: what the frick are YOU taking about? It has nothing to do with 1 or 10K posts I'm just saying this guy is new on here and the first few posts on MM he is completely fine with Bob Staples, and now he is stating all these claims.

muleyman
 
Geeze Dog,
Sorry for your expensive nightmare. I've only been on one guided hunt and it turned out worse than your story. My guess is you're a hard working blue collar guy that doesn't post much because you didn't graduate from Journalism School. BMA has a lot to explain.

HK
 
Quote: "see 9 bulls all over 300. Man with outfitter shoots 290 bull first day has to pack out for 2 days"

I guess it wasn't all that bad, 9 bulls...wow
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-09 AT 11:13PM (MST)[p]Hey Muleyman,

It gets better!!! Here is dogsalmon on nov. 22nd acting as if he does not know Bob.

"Bob with all the outfitters tags for the three trophy tag units post pictures. I am sure with all 330 to 380 bull you know of you must have a lot to pictures and stories to tell."


The story I got says you should of followed that arrow in the snow:)
 
DogSalmon - These type of very serious acuasations deserve follow up postings to answer the questions. Accordingly, you owe it to BMA and the rest of us (that might consider using BMA in the future) to follow up your posting with a more coherent explanation including details. Also, what have YOU done to try to rectify the situation? BMA may be a dirty dog, but being unhappy with someone's business and posting it on the internet is pretty serious in this day and age... I would hope you tried other means of making it right with BMA first.

Please do not get me wrong... I'm not saying you are lying, but your acuasations could destroy BMA's business which would be unfair unless you are willing thuroughly explain your side... not just throw out an incoherent story on the internet and clam up. If it's not worth your time to follow this up, you might consider editing your original post.

To everyone else on here: I don't know either of these guys don't care who is right or wrong, I just want to make sure that BMA gets a fair shake as I know I would want one.
 
Ok guys thanks for giving me a chance to explain my side and not throwing me under the bus.

For one thing, this is FIRST time I found out he was unhappy. Other client said he would get on and post his view on this, as he was there too.

I did not read his WHOLE post, as It hurt me to try and read it and make any sence of it, but the following is my side. Feel free to IM me if I left something out.

He booked the hunt when he DREW the tag (was not an Outfitter tag) He booked it as a 2 on 1 hunt. @ hunters per one guide, to save money. He got a 9 day elk hunt for $4,000! And I hired a guide to guide him solo.....1 0n 1 hunt for 9 days for $4,000 just to get a bull killed! What was I thinking??

My other guides took him to areas that held good bulls scouting. He passed on 12+ 300-330 class bulls, went home empty. Yes, Mt Emily has some huge bulls, but like Wenaha, average bulls are 280-330 class. He was holding out for 350 or nothing. I understand and would have too.

If he was truly upset, he should have said something to me at camp! If the fully catered food from a local Italian restaurant was not good enough, speak up. I offered to make the guys breakfast, both said they dont like to eat big heavy breakfasts that early.

Yes, my dog got into my camp food, and I punished him. EVERYONE loves my dog, and is well trained, just his first time in camp, so he had to learn whats not acceptable. Too much time spent on the dog issue tho.....

Last day of the hunt, we went in on some bulls I saw day before. They were the same bulls the 370 bull was hanging with, so I assumed he was still with them. (yes, 370". Governors tag and his guys were up there and saw him and said 370-380) I spend weeks up there watching these bulls, but after 600 spike hunters sart hunting every skyline opening day, it becomes a new game after that.

I tried to talk the client that shot the 6 pt out of shooting it on opening day. He had crosshairs on the 370 bull as it got daylight, but was shaking too bad to shoot, and I told him to wait till it was broadside to shoot, and I was running camera. Anyhow, he waited and spike hunters came down the ridge on skyline and the big bull vanished. So, we been watching this nice 6 pt which was closer to us, and I knew we could do better. But He wanted that bull, so we made the shot and spent next 2 days packing it out.

I took Mike (unhappy guy) hunting the rest of the week. We saw many 300-330 class bulls. No 350+.......
Then I found that group of big bulls again, but didnt see 370 with them. Figured he was in the trees or something, so on last day we went after them. The thought was for me to go down opposit ridge as the bulls, Mike go down opposit ridge and wait for daylight ad I will spot for him. Well, he being out of shape 60 yr old man, took WAY too long to get in there, and I had twice the distance down the other ridge, so I told him I need to hurry. I drew an arrow in snow to show him which ridge to go down.....I proceed down my ridge, as It get light, there are the bulls, in killing range. I asked him where he was, and he said "i dont know which ridge to go down", I said "ok, the is one basin, I am on west ridge, you go down east ridge. Easy....well, he refused to go down, and demanded I hike WAY back up and walk him to the right ridge.....He was too worried about having to hike back up 100 yards if it was just a finger ridge he went down on. I told him to proceed....the bulls weare just feeding. Well, 2 hours after shooting light, the bulls were almost to trees...I asked him to hurry! Well, i asked him what wind was doing (with the smoke in a bottle I gave him) he said wind was great! I told him to ALWAYS check wind. Anyhow, I get him where he can finaly see the bulls. Cant see the 370 bull, so he eases over the ridge and starts going down to them.....WITH THE WIND AT HIS BACK!!!!!! Well, guess what.......they BLEW out of there so fast. We headed, out and he decided last night was not worth hunting, too tired I guess, too long of a drive back.

We went back to camp, he loaded up and come over and shook my hand and thanked me for a good hunt. NEVER said he was unhappy...never knew there was a problem till I get calls about this post.

Sorry guys, I been guiding Deer hunters in Mt Emily this week, and just got home.

I am sure I left something out, so feel free to IM me or talk to me on this post. I have NOTHING to hide. I have learned, I cant please everyone. Specially the ones that go home empty.

The ones that actualy have a problem at camp, usually let me know, give me the chance to accomodate them. I try to run a good camp. NOT A LODGE......wall tents. How can I fix it, if I dont know what to fix??? Anyhow, feel free to email me or reply to this post.

Thanks again guys for allowing my side of story before you pass judgement.
 
Valid statement!! How was the late buck hunt? When I looked out my window at Mt.Emily every morning last week I wondered how the buck hunters were doing up there?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-09 AT 07:38AM (MST)[p]Damer, Thanks man. To be honest, after two years of guiding this late buck hunt.....SAVE YOUR POINTS until deer quantities come back. Low LOW deer numbers. In ten days, Between myself and my other guide we probably saw 175-200 bucks (some were same bucks, I am sure) and have only seen 2 that were shooters. Rest were at best....3.5 year old bucks. No quality, and VERY low deer numbers. Face it guys, unless ODFW does something DRASTICLY with deer tags or limits size havested, Deer hunting for anything beter than 2.5-3.5 year old bucks is a thing of the past. After looking at the 2010 Regs, they didnt do ANYTHING that the Director promised last year.

Tried to upload pic of buck......someone needs to tell me how to do it! lol Its taken as 2MB, but this upload only does 300KB max?? How do I resize pics to post them on here? Thanks guys
 
"Next question is about food informs me breakfast is like bacon eggs pancakes ham ect. good breakfast in mornings, lunch
sandwich fruit chips wont be back to camp for lunch, super steak,porkchops chicken ect."

"come back to camp we have super one hamburger on the very small buns and some beans to drink water or coke. i am thinking wheres the cook no cook just outfitter get up in morning breakfast is some eggs rice onions in a plastic throwing in hot water told to eat it when were out hunting on lunch its a bag of chips and crackers and peanut butter of nine days never had a lunch"

"get in to camp dinner one hamburger with cheese and corn. Get up same thing for breakfast as first day told eat it while hunting"

"he asks if he can have 2 burgers outfitter pauses then said ok. Next morning breakfast same thing i ask if he has anthing else for breakfast o yes i have some oatmeal ok reaches in box takes 2 packages of instant oatmeal puts in bowl"

"dinner noodles with cheese sauce and corn no milk its sour. Morning same thing oatmeal no lunch crackers and peanut butter"

"next morning outfitters informs me he has to go to town for food i ask where is the ham eggs potatoes bacon for breakfast informs me he has none"


$4k for nine days and this is what you fed him?
 
We had anything he wanted for breakfast. I offered to cook eggs, sausage or Pancakes. He said "I dont usually eat a heavy breakfast this early in am". So, a local restaurant vaccuum sealed some sausage, scrambled eggs, onions, potatoes and green peppers. We heated these up in am, used them for hand warmers and took them with us and ate them while glassing for elk.

Obviously I can not please everyone, but this is first year doing these, and everyone else loved the idea. IF you were hunting with me and did not like it, why not say something?

Milk was not sour, never went to town only for food, had plenty. When I did go to town, I asked what he wanted.......Dinners were Hamburgers, pork chops, fried potatoes and vegetables. We also had the vacuum sealed Italian food catered from a local restaurant. So, if he had a problem with the food......speak up, give me the chance to please him.

Posting a bunch of exagerated lies online to damage my business just cause he went home empty shows the class of this man. HE NEVER ACTED UNHAPPY, ABOUT ANYTHING. Post unsucessful hunt regrets?

When he left, he came over, shook my hand and said "thanks for a good hunt"
Now this????????
 
I agree, a client needs to spell out the expectations at the start. If unhappy, get it out in the open so you can deal with it.

Guiding can be tough. I guided for USO back 20 years ago. I had a guy that questioned every move I made. I finally asked him where he got all these ideas. "I read it in Field and Stream".
I didn't know chit as far as he was concerned till I walked him to the Bull we had been after all morning. All of a sudden, when we're standing over his 6X, I knew what I was doing.

Those meals actually sound pretty good when you explain it.
 
I'm glad to hear things went a little different than what it sounded like in the first post. Things make a little more sense now. It is sad to hear a few people that do actually get taken advantage of from an outfitter. I guess it pays to do your research and check all resources before hiring a guide. I wish the best for you BMA and can't wait to see your buck pics.
 
Well thanks guys! Its a tough business. People think its a dream job. When its going good, its a blast. The meals were very good! Next year, I will do same thing, but have plenty of other items for backup. Actually, I think I will send out menu requests to the clients. Dont mean they will get it, because there are usually 2-4 hunters in camp. NOBODY agrees on what to eat. I do the best I can. Alot of times when I got a full camp, there is a full time cook.
 
I gotta say, if it was me booking a hunt with yah or anyone else for that matter food would have been way down on my list of importance...Pork n beans, nough said....

the other Q was about packing the animal out for the old dude, now seeing that many bulls, I would have shot the best bull and waited for ole Bob to come take some pics and start the packing out process....?.......What say you Bob......
 
Usually we use horses and mules to get them out. But sometimes, it takes longer and bigger pain to get mules to it, than just pack it out de-boned. He should have shot that 320 bull last morning of the hunt. I have killed alot of bulls, and I am usually damn close to the score. Anyhow, you guys get the gist of this post.....Honestly, this guy need to go to high fenced, lodge hunts. But I never know the type of guy he is when booking them. Only after you guide them for awhile, do you realize the kind of hunters they are. I got a tough job, when they go home empty!
 
Bob,
I'm glad you responded with the other side of the story, it makes better sense now. It all comes down to setting expectations and it may have helped to let this guy know ahead of time he'd be hunting in rough terrain and it wouldn't be easy hiking (he should have known this from his own research too). If mules were promised for packing then they should have been provided, obviously this guy knew he couldn't pack out of those canyons and he shouldn't have been expected to if it was agreed he wouldn't at the time of booking. The food doesn't sound all that bad to me after your description, I like the eggs, potatoes, etc. in vaccum seal bag idea...sounds tasty to me. It's unfortunate this guy had a bad experience and I think to some degree his dissapointment comes from not harvesting a bull, but a bummer for him either way. He obviously had different expectations than what you provided and it's too bad those things weren't clear to both of you from the get go. Guiding is tough business and there will always be unsatisifed customers but if it were me I'd voice my displeasure then and there rather than posting a flaming msg on here well after the fact. Both of you end up losing through an argument on MM...IMO. I wish the best to both of you in the future.

LBR
 
if your a trophy hunter then you need to know you eat tag soup some time's but if I paid 4G's I would have shot a bull at least having some meat!...
 
If I recall it seems that Bob had tags for the Wenaha and the Walla Walla as well. How did those hunts go and were those hunters satisfied with their hunts? Perhaps that was too many tags for a small outfit to handle. It seems as though the guide provided had no experience scouting the unit and had just met Bob which I find much more troublesome than the food issue. I can cook my own food but the money paid should have gone for some scouting it seems to me. I would also like to see the video Bob got of the "370" bull. This would go a long ways towards credibility since I have seen no postings of trophy bulls killed by his clients. Some people will not be happy no matter what but most people will be satisfied if they are given what was promised. I would like to hear Dog Salmon reply also in a more legible, well thought out manner.
 
One thing for sure...BMA will become a better outfitter because of this thread and Dog will become more diligent guided hunter. It sounds like both sides got run around a bit and learned a lesson or two. I would like to see some of BMA's kills though.

HK
 
Romulus......The guide grew up on that area! Those were all lies. Client did not pay or deserve a one on one hunt, he paid for a 2 hunter per one guide. He wanted to save money! I paid a guide for weeks of scouting and to guide him one on one. He did not WANT the meat, he told me I could basically leave to meat to rot for all he cared. He only wanted me to pack out the horns on the trip out of the canyon! I dont get to hunt elk, so I was going to go back and get the meat out, as I LOVE elk meat!

Video was at 490 yards, cant see it real good, but the client said he would come to bat for me on here.

All my hunters in Wenaha and Walla Walla killed or turned down 6 pts.....none were very big tho. If interested, and are in Portland area, wil be at the Sportshow, and have some footage from this year. It will all be there. We got a cpl bulls on video that are 380+. So, if its that important to you, come see me at the show, and you can see for yourself.
 
Each year in business I learn more and more. I wont act like I know it all, as I sure dont. Feel free to check out my website anytime, but wont be updated with 2009 pics till sometime next month.

PS; One of my guides was guiding a buddy of his for free, and they got a beautiful 350" bull. I asked for his pic, but the hunter is very private and funny about being in spotlight. Stay tuned, I will keep trying. Since, it was not ran through my business, its his pic, and his decision.
 
Here is a friends uncles buck that was killed on public land over there is season!!! What a frickin HOG!

muleyman

4b145947234da96e.jpg
 
That is one of my guides dads buck. He told me Mt Emily......hunted these Mt Emily Bucks in the rut last 10 days, never saw a 180+ buck! Maybe this was last one alive in there........but a monster!
 
The picture doesn't do that buck justice. I have had my hands on the horns and let me tell you its amazing!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-09 AT 05:55PM (MST)[p]Bob,
yes it was a 2 on 1 hunt when you have no other clients it becomes a 1 on 1

Bob
please explain to me the game plan you and my guide had for opening morning. according to the guide you only talked to him on the phone and only met him for the first time opening morning. we spent the first two hours in brush with 10 feet of visablity.



when i asked about breakfast i was informed that you had no eggs,bacon,ham or sasage after that bob went to town for food.



The fact of the mater is i was told you had mules,and horses and there wasnot any. I told you you up front i couldnot pack because of my back. As for being unfit you commented how good shape i was in. When you change somethings that you and client talked about, call and let client know.
 
>Bob,
>Just sent you an email so
>you can attach the pictures
>and I will resize tham
>and post for you here.
>
>
>Brian

Ya Bob, lets seem them pics!!!!!
 
Ok, first off my eyes started crossing about 4 lines into this post and I think I feel a little dumber for reading that far. Dogsalmon needs to have whoever has been posting for him lately, re-write this boohoo story of his so maybe other could possibly post some kind of reply. He should have known before that the Mt. Emily unit is not for those with back problems or for that matter anyone with any kind of health problems. It is not for the weakhearted. To kill a 350+ in that unit, you have to go down into dirty holes where everyone else will not. And im positive the guide would know all about this. The hunter should have know this when he went on this own little scouting extravaganza before the season. So if his dream was to kill a 350+ bull he would have been working hard, to make damn sure he would be capable to present himself with the best chance possible. Shooting all the time, taking a walk after work, light wieghts, something atleast. Eating a tag is apart of hunting, it happens to us all. It is what keeps most of us going back to find the big one we have always dreampt about. Its how you shoot the big ones. To comeback after a hunt, empty handed, is never a good feeling. But to get on a site like this and dog on a outfitter for broken promises, and a skecthy hunt is just a sign of a panzy if you ask me. If he was that unhappy, something would have been said during the 9-day hunt. This just blows my mind, what a piss-poor attitude. Hunting shouldnt be like staying in a 5-star hotel like this guy was hoping for, the best memories you can make are when your cuddled up under a tent, in the freezing cold eating freeze dried food. Thats living to me. Advice for Dogsalmon, hunt out of state where you can shoot a 350+ bull off the road or behind 10 foot fences, and leave the rugged backcountry for the die-hards.
 
I would take hunting out of my wall tent over staying in a 5-star hotel anyday! BMA my hat is off to you, you do have a tough job and this goes to show you can't please everybody all of the time. Its funny how people think just because you drew a hard to get tag or you are hunting with a guide that the big bulls will just walk right to you. Only on the Primo's videos.
 
Hey 77,
How do you know dog didn't do any of your "hardcore" work outs? How do you know what was promised and what wasn't. Just curious how you know so much about this situation. And FYI, one day you'll be old enough to realize that at 60 you can't do what you did at 30. If someone told me to bank on mules packin' me in and out, I would do just that. I don't think dog has/had any grand illusions of his fitness, at least he doesn't sound all cocky like you...it just may be he didn't get a clear picture of what he was getting into. Clearly that was inpart his fault, but also BMA's.

HK
 
I met Bob two years ago while on my Walla Walla hunt and let me tell anyone who doubts BMA, they are legit and run a clean well rounded outfit. After I killed my bull, we went to Bob's camp to show him off. The client and Bob had just returned from their morning hunt. It was mid morning or so and I was definitely impressed with his setup. Nice wall tents, all the cooking gear you could ever need, cots, clean, etc. And breakfast was even just cooked so of course we would stay for breakfast burritos:) If I was not a DIY type of guy, he would definitely get my business. Keep us the good work Bob.
 
Here are some pictures that Bob sent to me so I could resized them and post for him. I will let him give the info on each photo here, don't want to make a mistake.
Brian
4b148f17146dc3d2.jpg

4b148f3a157fc3d2.jpg

4b148fcc1a3745e3.jpg

4b148f8b17eacec1.jpg

4b148fb0194f45e3.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-09 AT 08:52PM (MST)[p]Romolus, if your talking to me,

I believe that client ate his tag. I remember him saying he wanted 370-380 and nothing less. Didn't care, he would go home empty and he was fine with that. Just like Bob's client this year. No meat, just wanted horns and that's it. I am sure I left something out and Bob can fill in the blanks. I do know that Bob and his guides got him on elk cause he passed on a 340 bull the morning I had breakfast with him!
 
I can say that Bobby is a stand up guy and will work hard for his clients. i wasnt there and wont comment on what happened, but if your in the business long enough you will have people that have personality clashes... Sounds to me like Bobby put him on bulls. Hunting is hunting, big bulls are there, but killing them is not guaranteed.

I can also say that Bobby knows how to field judge bulls with the best of them and would believe it if hes says those bulls are there.

Travis
www.RidgelineOutdoors.com
Blacks-Creek Packs Dealer
 
Ok I was the other guy in camp on this hunt. Here is how my hunt went. And this is just my side. Opening morning the outfitter and I headed out after a 370 bull he had been watching for several days. We left the truck at 4:15 and were in what he felt would be a good shooting spot about 20 minutes before light. We were about 5 miles from the truck at this point. At day light we see what he thought would be a 290 or 300 inch bull. We glassed for about an hour and out comes the biggest bull I've ever seen alive. It had unreal mass long main beams and the horns looked fake; to a normaly general unit hunter like me. I was told before we got there that this would proble be a 450 to 550 yard shot which I thought I could pull off after alot of range time over the spring and summer. I ranged the bull at 498 and he was quarting away. I had about three seconds before bull fever set in so bad that I couldn't hold on his chest. The bull was in the open for over 45 seconds and we have this all on film. This is what I payed for and dreamed about. To be put in the right spot on a trophy bull like this. But as luck would have it some spike hunters skylined themselves and this bull seen them and moved off. But I should have killed it. So after this I decide to shoot this smaller bull which is still feeding across from us. The outfitter told me this 370 bull was worth hunting several days for then go after a smaller one if I want. I said I know I can kill this smaller bull if we go down there on it now and he said its your tag do what you want. So I went down and shot a 6x6 that went 297 which I was happy with. I wanted a big bull but I did not want to go home empty handed. It did take two hard days to pack it out. I seen probably four 5 points and five 6 points during the hunt and while packing this elk out. A hardcore fair chase hunt is what I wanted and that is what I got. And the big boys are in rough country thats how they make it thru 8 to 11 seasons on public land. But if you have certain wants or expections I would suggest to get them in writing before booking with any outfitter. And it never hurts to check with all the hunters they have had for the last two seasons. Again this was just my hunt.
 
HK,

I never listed any hardcore workouts. Walking on daily basis could not be considered hardcore. And for the mules that he was promised, there are many places in that unit that you couldn't even get mules or horses too, or atleast where the 350+ play. You might be able to get them to a certain point but some packing would still be needed. I know that someday I too will be to the point where I wont be able to climb down into those big, bad holes. But when I get there, and still want to hunt, im going to do a little homework before signing with a guide. The only thing that really gets to me is a grown man getting on a site like this and talking behind a outfitters back. Thats something I could see coming from my teenage girl but not a grown man.
 
Antleraddick77 you seem to be a real expert, on how to kill 350+ bulls in Mt. Emily. Where is that "rugged backcountry". Come on tell us which roads it's in between? You went a little overboard on a guy you don't even know. WEAKHEARTED,PANZY,PISS POOR ATTITUDE. Where do you get off saying that crap about a 61 year old man thats out there trying to get it done. Let's see all your 350 bulls! Backcountry you can't even get five miles off a road in the whole unit. It is actually a good unit for older guys to hunt. Here is a little backcountry survival guide for you. If you go west you'll run in to Hal's drive in, North the tollgate shopping center, South you got the Meacham store, East go to Czers and get a logger burger. Hope that keeps a hardcore backcountry hunter like yourself out of trouble. We need to start a new forum on here called "Drama".
 
Crying on this site is why this whole thing is a joke. I don't even hunt or live in Oregon, but I did sure grow up in the area. And that unit doesn't even carry that many 350+ bulls and there isnt going to be until soemthing is done about the spike hunts. This is why I quit hunting this state and moved on. There are some damn good burgers though. I didnt mean to go all out on the hunter, in which I do not know. I will say i went too far on that,but posting a story like this for the public is a disgrace.
 
I can see why you name yourself as "Blue" mountain. I have the blues just reading this poor mans story. I have hunted Alaska to Africa and have NEVER heard anybody complain about not being fed or having to watch a dog beating! Why would you take an untrained animal to camp anyway? Do you have any sense of responsibility? My god man how do you look yourself in the mirror? I have come home empty handed to the tune of $20,000 and have never made a complaint about my guides or outfitters but you sir are certainly one that should be avoided. How does the great state of Oregon allow a man like you to operate a low class,shady,unscrupulious business that you do? There should never be a complaint from a client like the one that has been lodged against you regardless of the outcome of the hunt. It is not the kill that makes the hunt. It is the memories generated from trustworthy outfitters, guides, and friends. Perhaps you should read some Hemmingway or Rouark. Perhaps you should read your clients message and learn something from it. If you feel the need to reply in the way you have then obviously you failed to do your job and are trying to defend the undefesable. Be ashamed.
 
I have hunted, hiked and rode mules in this unit, it really is some intimidating country if you are not in shape. As for mules, just try to take them down the N. face of Thimbleberry and you will see what was said about some of the country is not mule safe.
 
Yes, thats them. Just got off the phone with the other client that drew the tag, and didnt kill a buck. Super guy and a true trophy hunter. He passed on a dozen 24-25 inch bucks, never found or saw the monster buck.

IMO...I would not waste 13 points to draw this tag guys! Guided it for 2 years in a row, and we covered ALOT of ground this year. Trucks, atv, snowmobiles/ TRACKED ATV, hiked, glassed.....VERY few mature bucks. Most were 2..5-3.5 yr old deer. Not the kind you wait 13 years for. Fun hunt, but not a trophy hunt. But Thats just my opinion. IF you pull a monster out of there, it was a matter of being in right place at the right time, cause there has to be a few BIG bucks there, but after spending all November up there, Was very bare of mature bucks.

PS: THE PICS MANNY HAS UP ARE 2008
 
I think Bob should run for President. He's good with words and OBVIOUSLY everyone on here believes whatever he says. That's all it takes these days. Go for it Bob, you can do it!
 
I normally don't say anything on here. But, Dogsalmon when you posted about your hunt on the 17th, under a different subject, why didn't you say anything thing then? Why did you wait until 10 days later and post again? Just an observation I made.
 
Very well put. Two sides certainly need heard before rendering our sometimes one sided opinions. I find it hard to believe though that this outfitter did much outfitting. The story is just too rambling, suggesting to me that there were too many things wrong to pinpoint any one problem. The unfortunate hunter could use a little spell check help but he is upset. I don't know how many years he put in for that tag but most casual hunters don't stick it out that long so that also makes me take his story for the truth as best he could put it in words.
 

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