my recent broadhead experiences

[UtahMountainMan]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-12 AT 01:56PM (MST)[p]Hey guys - just thought I would pass along some recent info/testing I have done on broadheads.

Back in 2004 I bought a Matthews Ovation bow set and hunted with it at about 65#. I used the G5 Montecs and was able to kill a few deer and elk with that broadhead. I found that I would always need to broadhead tune it, which obviously is not too uncommon when going from fieldpoints to a fixed blade. I switched in 2008 to the Trophy Taker Shuttle T's and found those heads to group even better for me than the Montecs. I killed a few deer and elk with those Shuttle T's no problem.

Fast forward to 2012. I sold my Ovation and bought a PSE Bow Madness 3G. I had that bow for about 2 months and shot 150 arrows a week or so during that time. I really did not care for the feel of that bow, particularly the back end after drawing back. It did not have a real smooth draw cycle, at least for me (I am 6'3 and shoot with a 30" draw length).

I went down to the shop and after shooting the Bear Anarchy I quickly sold the Bow Madness 3G and switched to the Bear Anarchy. GREAT MOVE by the way. The Anarchy is an amazing, amazing, amazing bow. I love it.

So my current set up is a 65# draw weight, 30" draw length, QAD ultrarest, and I shoot the Carbon Express Maxima Hunters in the 350, and have taken my bow to 2 different shops and they have confirmed it is tuned perfectly.

HOWEVER, my trusty old Shuttle T's didnt seem to be grouping as well. I confirmed the tuning of my bow, spin tested the arrows, weight/grain etc.

I have since tested the Trophy Taker Shuttle T's, the G5 Montecs, the G5 Strikers, the Slick Trick Standards, and the Muzzy 3 blades. I also messed around with the G5 T3's and while they shot phenomenally the spider clip that they use to hold in the blades is so touchy that it is too risky for me. I had one blade deploy pulling an arrow from the quiver, and others are too tight.

So long story short, between the broadheads mentioned above, the one that has flown the most accurately to 50 yards and penetrated my targets the best is the Slick Trick 100 grain standards.

Just wanted to pass on this info for those who are looking around. I personally feel like i have learned that for whatever reason, different bows/strings/setups can have pretty big impacts on flight patterns of different broadheads. EVEN at the same draw length/weight.

Hopefully those slick tricks will help me put down a big bull in the Gila this September. The only thing I am a little leery about is that they are a 4 blade head, which I have never hunted with.


"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"

 

[YukonDall]

GO FIGURE I GUESS !!!! THIS GAME OF FINDING THE "RIGHT BROADHEAD" IS A BIT ANNOYING AT BEST. I DONT WANT TO SPEND A SMALL FORTUNE FINDING THE RIGHT BROADHEAD, EVEN THOUGH I AM STILL LOOKING AROUND.

FOR NOW I HAVE SETTLED ON THE SHUTTLE T LOCK, AND THE TERMINAL T LOCK.....BOTH SHOOT 2-3 INCHES TO THE LEFT IF MY FIELD TIPS. FOR NOW I CAN LIVE WITH IT, I AM WORKING ON RELAXING MY GRIP/TORKING WHEN I RELEASE THE ARROW.

ANY IDEA WHAT ELSE MAY CAUSE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SHUTTLE T AND MY FIELD TIPS? I AM ALL EARS........THANKS FOR HELPING A BOW NEWBIE...........YD.

 

[UtahMountainMan]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-12 AT 03:08PM (MST)[p]Yeah, it costs a small fortune but I just buy a pack and if I dont like them I return them. My shuttle T's were flying a bit left too. One thing to remember, is that a fixed blade broadhead has more surface area so it is going to fly differently than a field point. It also is more subject to wind planing and so groups could be a bit more erratic.

Mechanicals definitely can fly more like field points but I would prefer to have something that needs to be tuned to my bow but has zero chance of deploying in flight or in quiver, or not opening on the animal in time. Mechanicals are also more forgiving to hand torque and stuff than fixed blades are.

I love the Shuttle T's, like I said, they were money out of my old bow.

Also, I have noticed the faster FPS you are shooting the more difficult it is to get broadheads to fly as straight as possible, especially out in the 50 to 60 yard range.

I stop shooting field points about Aug 1st anyway, and I just adjust my sight to get my broadheads to hit true. I WILL however make sure my bow and setup is tuned properly first though.


"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"

 

[Idabow]

Broadheads with vented blades will be more forgiving than heads with solid blades.

That ain't a camel toe, that's a moose knuckle!

 

[alpinebowman]

Yukon, It sounds and Utah it sounds like you need some yolk tuning. It takes some time but it has done wonders for my BH flight.

alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->

 

[blazingsaddle]

Just about every BH can be shot with the very same point of impact as a field tip. You should not be searching for the "right BH" that works well your setup.

I have found it to be uncommon for a BH to automatically hit the same as a field tip, even with a "perfectly tuned bow". In other words the BH/arrow/bow need to be tuned together. Many factors go into this.
Field tips cover or hide many flaws in bow tuning, and form. BHs magnify any issues in either shooting form or tuning of the bow. If your BHs are not field tip accurate, its very high odds that its not the BH, its you or the bow.
Read the basics in the Easton arrow tuning guide. It is a great guide. I refer to it every year it seems.

Yukon- I agree with Alpine, also slight adjustments to your rest may put your BHs right with your field points.

 

[Lv2hnt]

One other thing you might consider if you like fixed-blade broadheads. You might try a few of your arrows with 4-fletched vanes --- stablizes more quickly coming off your rest ...

Lv2hnt

"Every man dies --- not every man really lives."

 

[GotBowAz]

Blazingsaddle, with all due respect I disagree with your statement.

A field point does NOT cover up flaws. A fixed broadhead makes or creates flaws. A field point screwed on is true arrow dynamics. If you have a perfectly tuned bow to manufactured specs, centered, paper tuned and spitting out true bullet holes with field tips without fletches then you have a bow that is shooting to its maximum performance. Once you screw on a fixed blade broad head and it does NOT hit where your field points do then it is either you or the broadhead that is the culprit. Not the bow!

As a result, you go out and retune or in my opinion untune/manipulate your perfectly tuned bow so that it shoots your fixed blades the same as your field points. If you don't think that's what you're doing then I challenge to removed your blades from your broadheads and shoot them again. See where they hit.

Now with that said, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with manipulating your tuned bow to get your broadheads to hit where you want them, but call it like it is. Fixed blade broadheads change the set up by paddling the air and steering your arrow. It's at that point you manipulate your bow or your arrows (example, Quick spin fletches, spine etc. etc..) or both to get accuracy. The more exposed blade on a head the more you're going to have issues. That's why they make some fixed heads with vents in the blades.


GBA

 

[YukonDall]

GBA.........THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE TO ME !!! INSTEAD OF TRYING 14 OTHER POSSIBLE REMEDIES. KEEPING IN MIND THAT EVERY THING IS FINE......UNTIL YOU SHOOT A BROAD HEAD !!!!!...

THANKS.........YD.

 

[c5mrr270]

Has your bow been bare shaft tuned?

 

[Bill_in_MI]

With a similar respect and realizing there is more than one way to skin a cat, I think you are wrong regarding your perception of a bows tune.

1)Bare shaft tuning is a momentary snap shot of the arrow in flight and I've seen many many times people who claim to shoot bullet holes who in reality have terrible arrow flight. Paper tuning is tool that can display form flaws specific to grip and excessive anchor point contact (mashing fletching into your face etc).

2)A well constructed fixed blade broadhead (spins true etc) of a similar length to a field point is a great indicator of whether an arrow is coming off the bow SLIGHTY askew. Think about it, you are putting 'wings' on the front of your arrow. Any deviation from center will steer the arrow in a different direction. This can be due to bow set up, shooter induced torque, fletching contact, rest bounce back, etc.

By making an arrow more aerodynamically finicky with the installation of a fixed head, we are able to more easily see the effects of micro changes in the above. This is why field points are said to mask and hide errors. I can significantly torque my bow (try it) and still shoot groups that can break nocks. Put a fixed blade broadhead on and try the same thing, you might be lucky to hit within 10" at 30 yards.

This is why short compact small dia heads typically fly "better" than traditional heads and why so many give up on tuning and shoot mechanical heads to alleviate point of impact discrepancies. Worse than this are those who simply move the sights to the broadheads point of impact. The problem with this simplistic answer is that streamlined arrow flight is never achieved and regardless of the head used, penetration potential is reduced due to energy robbing lateral forces diminishing the amount of forward momentum.

Paper tuning is a great early step in setting up your bow/arrow/point combination but it is only a step of the process.

 

[YukonDall]

BARE SHAFT TUNED......HUH....NO.

GOOD STUFF THERE BILL, MAKES SENSE TO ME !!!! I AM ATTEMPTING TO KEEP THIS BOW THING REAL SIMPLE, AND A ELMER BROAD HEAD IS WHAT I WANT TO DO NEXT. THEY HAVE BEEN ORDERED, I WILL SHOOT THEM FRIDAY.

THANKS ALL, FOR YOUR INSIGHT..................YD.

 

[Bill_in_MI]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-12 AT 08:10AM (MST)[p]Sorry for the confusion. Bare shaft tuning was supposed to be paper tuning.

Although bare shaft tuning is also one way to start.

Bare shaft tuning

Paper tuning (fletched)

Walk back tuning

Broadhead tuning

All these have merit. The main point of my previous post was that fixed blade broadheads can indicate small tuning problems that the other methods above may not reveal.

All this becomes moot if one has not yet developed consistent and correct form though. They don't call it the Witchery of Archery for nothing lol.

 

[c5mrr270]

As Bill said paper tuning is a good early step but it is only a snap shot of what the arrow is doing at a given distance from the bow. That is why I usually start there and then move to bare shaft tuning, which will tell you what your arrow is doing without steering correction. It will also tell you if your arrow is coming off slightly askew or not and whether or not you have clean nock travel. If you can get your bow bare shaft tuned usually broadheads are usually not a problem. To the original poster I don't know if you are saying you actually broadhead tune or just move your sights to compensate, which are two different things. To Yukon dall, bareshaft and braodhead tuning is definitely not simple but if you're just going to screw on a mechanical its not as critical. However, your field point groups will improve with bare shaft tuning.

 

[YukonDall]

C5MRR270......THANKS FOR RESPONDING. THIS MAY NOT BE THE ANSWER, BUT:...JUST YESTERDAY I BOUGHT/SHOT THE ELMER EDGE BROAD HEAD. IT SHOT EXACTLY WHERE I AIMED IT......LIKE FIELD TIPS. I THINK MY CONCERNS ARE OVER.....STILL TRYING TO KEEP IT SIMPLE..........YD.

 

[Bowtech38]

My recent experience with the Slick Trick has been amazing. My son and I have both been shooting the Magnums and have had to do no tuning at all when putting on the BH's. My son shoots the Diamond Edge set atb 50lbs. Shot a deer broadside at 30yds. with a total pass through. The internal damage was beyond impressive. I shoot a Bowtech Tribute set at 68lbs. The Magnum Tricks will group as weel or better than my field points. Tune your bow and practice good shooting form. I believe it is all in the way you grip (or the lack of) your bow at the shot. By the way my son is 13 and has killed 2 deer and we are in search of his second elk.

 

[c5mrr270]

Good form is definitely key. Without good form all those tuning methods pretty much become ineffective.

 

[westelkman]

Blazing and Bill are correct

Think of it this way; If your bow isn't shooting Bh's into the same hole as you field points- something on your bow is not tuned or your form is off and its your job to correct it.

There is a whole section of the BH industry built on guys who cannot tune their equipment




"In nature there are neither rewards nor punishments; there are consequences"
Robert Green Ingersoll