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shedhunter2
Guest
Papers were filed today in Navada State court by USO. It will be just a matter of time before your state is prostituted by USO.
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Muley62
Guest
Lance
Where did you hear that?
Where did you hear that?
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Nofear4
Guest
Darn,
I wish they'd go to Indiana and Piss Zim off!
PS, Zim has 45 acres in Indiana he invited all us AZ NR's to hunt Dove and Whitetail, whoopie!
Nofear4
I wish they'd go to Indiana and Piss Zim off!
PS, Zim has 45 acres in Indiana he invited all us AZ NR's to hunt Dove and Whitetail, whoopie!
Nofear4
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RACKMASTER
Guest
HERE WE GO AGAIN!
I CAN'T WAIT TIL OPENING DAY!
rackmaster
I CAN'T WAIT TIL OPENING DAY!
rackmaster
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shedhunter2
Guest
I just read it on another forum. There is a discussion about it. I guess its unofficial until Nev. G&F announces it. But the guy on the other forum had talked with Nev. G&F today.
Zim
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,291
LAST EDITED ON Jul-28-04 AT 10:41PM (MST)[p]NoFear4,
I am holding the fort down, and will fend them off as long as I can. In the meantime you have an open invite if you get bumped. Don't laugh I've got some dandy's on there. Now dove you'll have to try public land. No sunflowers on my place.
I am holding the fort down, and will fend them off as long as I can. In the meantime you have an open invite if you get bumped. Don't laugh I've got some dandy's on there. Now dove you'll have to try public land. No sunflowers on my place.
elkster123
Active Member
- Messages
- 114
Boy I can't wait for them to get into Idahos face. Its just a matter of time.
RELH
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 17,480
I am sorry that it has gotten to this point that NR and-or outfitters have to sue a state to gain more tags for NR hunters. I do live in CALIF. and prefer to hunt in WY. and have seen some states that do treat NR hunters unfairly, but most western states do try to be fair about the tags and somewhat with the prices. One state I am aware of makes a NR buy his license first then he submits to a drawing, and he will fail at times to get the area he attempted to draw for. He ends up with a expensive license that he may not use because he failed to draw his area. This has happen to several friends of mine on several occasions, and I will not hunt this state because of it's unfair practice.
On the otherhand, I feel that the resident hunters of a state should have priorty on tags in their own state.
The above mentioned lawsuit and the "Wilderness Area hunting" in Wyoming are two good examples of outfitters getting their sayso over hunting rights in states and I feel that this will continue due to it being "big Money" in outfitter's pockets and some states will go with it because it is big money to them in selling NR tags at unheard of prices that a local resident will not want to pay for.
My personal feelings are that a state should use care in managing their wild life, do not over hunt any area, local residents should get a priorty of 75-80 % of all tags available and the NR can complete for the remaining tags, including any left over resident tags. Also on certain top trophy areas, once a hunter has drawn a tag for that area, he should set out a time as dictated by the state, to allow other hunters a chance to draw a tag for that trophy area.
I am somewhat opposed to tags being issued to outfitters and it forces NR hunters to hunt with them because of the guaranteed tags, I would prefer to see the tags being issued to the rancher and he can sell them to hunters wishing to hunt his property. Might help him to pay his property taxes and stay in business ranching. I have seen some very good outfitters, but alot of them have abused the system and hunters while trying to make a quick buck. Just my two cents for what it is worth.
RELH
On the otherhand, I feel that the resident hunters of a state should have priorty on tags in their own state.
The above mentioned lawsuit and the "Wilderness Area hunting" in Wyoming are two good examples of outfitters getting their sayso over hunting rights in states and I feel that this will continue due to it being "big Money" in outfitter's pockets and some states will go with it because it is big money to them in selling NR tags at unheard of prices that a local resident will not want to pay for.
My personal feelings are that a state should use care in managing their wild life, do not over hunt any area, local residents should get a priorty of 75-80 % of all tags available and the NR can complete for the remaining tags, including any left over resident tags. Also on certain top trophy areas, once a hunter has drawn a tag for that area, he should set out a time as dictated by the state, to allow other hunters a chance to draw a tag for that trophy area.
I am somewhat opposed to tags being issued to outfitters and it forces NR hunters to hunt with them because of the guaranteed tags, I would prefer to see the tags being issued to the rancher and he can sell them to hunters wishing to hunt his property. Might help him to pay his property taxes and stay in business ranching. I have seen some very good outfitters, but alot of them have abused the system and hunters while trying to make a quick buck. Just my two cents for what it is worth.
RELH
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
I knew it was coming and I have been telling people that. Just didn't know how soon. But I pulled this from the USO email response thread where Griz (?) of USO was quoted as saying about Arizona:
"So what did we ask for? We asked for only a 10% set-aside share in a separate pool for nonresidents."
Nevada has had a true 10% on deer for as long as I can remember (and that's a while). So how can Griz say that's all they wanted. They're telling people what they want to hear all the while going forward with their own agenda and which is driven by money.
Brian, I too wonder who is bank rolling this operation. I have been involved in lawsuits that go to the appellate court level and they are ungodly expensive. No one man can afford to do it alone. I have to believe USO has somebody elses money behind them.
"So what did we ask for? We asked for only a 10% set-aside share in a separate pool for nonresidents."
Nevada has had a true 10% on deer for as long as I can remember (and that's a while). So how can Griz say that's all they wanted. They're telling people what they want to hear all the while going forward with their own agenda and which is driven by money.
Brian, I too wonder who is bank rolling this operation. I have been involved in lawsuits that go to the appellate court level and they are ungodly expensive. No one man can afford to do it alone. I have to believe USO has somebody elses money behind them.
Boy, I hope that any guides working for USO in NV can run and hide well. I'm sure there are alot of people in these wide open spaces of NV that know where there are alot of abandoned mine shafts. Nothing against the guides personally, but USO was a dirty name in this state before ol' George started this. With limited deer and elk #'s already and NDOW already giving an honest 10% in most cases it will be interesting to see what happens now. NR's usually don't get alot of help from the locals anyway, hell....alot of residents don't get alot of help from the locals in most places. I'm sure any AZ plate or guides working for Georgie will peek the interest of the local yaahooos. Some of those cowboys can be down right ruthless.
AZBuckSnort
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,075
They solicited funds in a mass mailing to non resident applicants. Evidently some responded with cash.
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Muley62
Guest
Does anybody have anything in writing about this case yet? Is there a newspaper article or press release from NV?
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azhuntatty
Guest
I wonder if some of the non-residents that have been critical of Arizona residents' reaction to the USO lawsuit will feel the same when a similar lawsuit is filed in their home state. If Nevada really does have a true 10% and if USO has indeed filed a lawsuit to change that, it illustrates USO's intentions--to take as big of a share as possible of each state with premium hunting, period. USO is neither concerned with the residents of the states they are suing nor are they concerned about being "fair." If 10% was all they wanted in Arizona, what is it they want in Nevada? Also, if 10% is all USO wanted in Arizona, why did USO not tell the court that if Arizona would merely go to a true 10% allocation they would not seek to enforce the judgment or complain further. USO and those alligned with it are interested in money and in their own self interests--period.
"Boy I can't wait for them to get into Idahos face"
And why is that Elkster123? I really hope you were being sarcastic.
Idaho sells elk and deer tags to non-residents over the counter. Last I checked (last night) there was something like 10,000 deer tags and 5,500 elk tags left for non-residents to buy. The 10% cap here only applies to limited entry or controlled hunts.
If NV gives a true 10%, what exactly is USO sueing for there? Are they trying to get a higher percentage?
And why is that Elkster123? I really hope you were being sarcastic.
Idaho sells elk and deer tags to non-residents over the counter. Last I checked (last night) there was something like 10,000 deer tags and 5,500 elk tags left for non-residents to buy. The 10% cap here only applies to limited entry or controlled hunts.
If NV gives a true 10%, what exactly is USO sueing for there? Are they trying to get a higher percentage?
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bhertzog
Guest
Remember folks...They are not taking NV to task for discrimination, they simply need to compete fairly for the sale of hides/horns!! Get it straight! What a joke!
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TheHunt
Guest
One thing I have learned is that certain parts of Idaho have scary people living there... I have hunted in the panhandle many times. There is some absolutely insane people who live there... There are some very nice people but you do not need to worry about the nice people.
If USO hires the locals as guides it would be a solution. If they screw the locals the guides and possible clients will be bent over a stump... And yes they will most likely say "you sure have a pretty mouth". ;-)
TheHunt
If USO hires the locals as guides it would be a solution. If they screw the locals the guides and possible clients will be bent over a stump... And yes they will most likely say "you sure have a pretty mouth". ;-)
TheHunt
Muley62,
Go to the Nevada F&G website and you will see that they (Nv) have already scheduled a meeting. I saw it last night on their main web page before I shut down this computer.
Another thing I noticed too in there, don't understand WHY but NV is wanting to make it where a NR has to have a GUIDE to hunt, are you ready, a BOBCAT.
Oh no, look out here comes BOBCATBESSIE.
Brian
Go to the Nevada F&G website and you will see that they (Nv) have already scheduled a meeting. I saw it last night on their main web page before I shut down this computer.
Another thing I noticed too in there, don't understand WHY but NV is wanting to make it where a NR has to have a GUIDE to hunt, are you ready, a BOBCAT.
Oh no, look out here comes BOBCATBESSIE.
Brian
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
kilowatt,
The bobcat issue actually arose from non other than a guide (big surprise there). Bobcat trapping has not been open to nonresidents for many years (not sure when, why or how) but last spring a certain guide (not USO, I think you would know who if you think back to some of our previous conversations regarding guides) asked the commission to allow a special nonresident tag for guided hunters only so that when a client is hunting here (usually for lion) they could, for a fee, add a bobcat hunt. Once again, it's all about money. I don't think NDOW is really behind the issue but it has been asked for.
I did not know about the meeting in Hawthorne. May have to see if I can cruise down there next Saturday. Should be an interesting one.
The bobcat issue actually arose from non other than a guide (big surprise there). Bobcat trapping has not been open to nonresidents for many years (not sure when, why or how) but last spring a certain guide (not USO, I think you would know who if you think back to some of our previous conversations regarding guides) asked the commission to allow a special nonresident tag for guided hunters only so that when a client is hunting here (usually for lion) they could, for a fee, add a bobcat hunt. Once again, it's all about money. I don't think NDOW is really behind the issue but it has been asked for.
I did not know about the meeting in Hawthorne. May have to see if I can cruise down there next Saturday. Should be an interesting one.
K
ktc
Guest
For hell's sake. You have got to be kidding me. This is scary folks.
I have a question. I am truly serious here and no sarcasm intended. Does prop 5 in Utah protect us against this? I have also noted that the two states in question are NOT represented by SFW. Is their any correlation to USO strikes? Does their presence give USO a much larger hurdle in which to leap? Or, does it matter?
Tell me your thoughts. I see SFW has addressed the issue by email.
ktc
I have a question. I am truly serious here and no sarcasm intended. Does prop 5 in Utah protect us against this? I have also noted that the two states in question are NOT represented by SFW. Is their any correlation to USO strikes? Does their presence give USO a much larger hurdle in which to leap? Or, does it matter?
Tell me your thoughts. I see SFW has addressed the issue by email.
ktc
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desertbull
Guest
"Idaho sells elk and deer tags to non-residents over the counter. Last I checked (last night) there was something like 10,000 deer tags and 5,500 elk tags left for non-residents to buy. The 10% cap here only applies to limited entry or controlled hunts."
The 10% cap in AZ only applies to limited entry hunts too. NR can buy deer tags over the counter for Kaibab and unit 13.
The 10% cap in AZ only applies to limited entry hunts too. NR can buy deer tags over the counter for Kaibab and unit 13.
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Muley62
Guest
Kilowatt
Can you post a link? I keep getting "page not available"
Thanks
Chris
Can you post a link? I keep getting "page not available"
Thanks
Chris
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
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Bura Nut
Guest
Kilowatt: USO has a substantial amount of money in their care each year from up front tag/license costs they get before they plug potential clients into various states for tags. Somewhere in the 30,000,000 figure. Also USO has been in discussions with NV commmissioners for some time and from what I have found out, one commissioner in particular named cory (dont know if this first name or last) realizes now there is little to "negotiate" since the 9th circuit ruled on "discriminatory practices" in AZ draws. NV is very worried. Since the 9th circuit ruling I imagine that all the western states that USO wants more tags from will buckle under with new proceedures to adhere to the 9th. I know the 10th ruled in favor of Wyoming which could help all of us but it will be years down the road. It will be a supreme court issue. I think for right now, all hunters need to band together and DO SOMETHING in your states or by the time the courts figure it out, it will be too late......... Allen Taylor......
Zim
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,291
Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe Nevada sets aside 10% of the tags for NR's. However, this pool is dipped into by their complex outfitter pool very significantly. This outfitter draw occurs prior to the unit biologist's season quota recommendations. One year our unit had 111 NR tags and the next year a fire hit and the quota was cut to one (1) unguided tag! The guides all got their tags. The following year they dumped more of the tags into the NR unguided pool, but nowhere near what the guides got. They never made up an equal difference. No question it is a quirky system designed to take care of their outfitters at the expense of unguided NR's. The funny thing is that most guys I've talked to that apply in Nevada have no clue about this.
I don't know if the NV guided pool is just for resident guides or what. Maybe somebody here can tell us. But the curious thing is USO's interest with regards to that pool, and their interest in the unguided quotas. I believe NR unguided only end up with 5% or so.
I don't know if the NV guided pool is just for resident guides or what. Maybe somebody here can tell us. But the curious thing is USO's interest with regards to that pool, and their interest in the unguided quotas. I believe NR unguided only end up with 5% or so.
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Muley62
Guest
Thanks NVbighorn
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
"our unit"? Not even touching that. 
The NR guide tags are actually based on last years quota but then the tags sold in that draw are deducted from the NR quota for this year. This happens because the guide draw is before the biologists have made recommendations on quotas for this year. That's why there was only one tag in area 6, I believe, that year. There really should have been none because the guide quota ate up ALL the tags that were going to be recommended. But the season was set and NRs had already applied for that hunt so there had to be at least one tag for that draw.
Kind of sucks, doesn't it that the guides actually take away "your" NR tags by taking "care of their outfitters at the expense of unguided NR's" Thank the guides for that, not NDOW. The guides went to the legislature and got that without NDOW or the commission even having a say. Almost makes you wonder if the guides even care about the unguided NR, doesn't it? ;-) Oh, by hte way, I can't even apply with a guide for that "guide draw". It's only for non-residents. Kind of discrimnatory, isn't it.
In answer to your question about resident guides, all guides are licensed in Nevada by NDOW and they do not have to be residents, only licensed here. USO is licensed here and I imagine they put in for the guide draw. All licensed guides can apply for tags in the guide draw regardless of where they live.
The NR guide tags are actually based on last years quota but then the tags sold in that draw are deducted from the NR quota for this year. This happens because the guide draw is before the biologists have made recommendations on quotas for this year. That's why there was only one tag in area 6, I believe, that year. There really should have been none because the guide quota ate up ALL the tags that were going to be recommended. But the season was set and NRs had already applied for that hunt so there had to be at least one tag for that draw.
Kind of sucks, doesn't it that the guides actually take away "your" NR tags by taking "care of their outfitters at the expense of unguided NR's" Thank the guides for that, not NDOW. The guides went to the legislature and got that without NDOW or the commission even having a say. Almost makes you wonder if the guides even care about the unguided NR, doesn't it? ;-) Oh, by hte way, I can't even apply with a guide for that "guide draw". It's only for non-residents. Kind of discrimnatory, isn't it.
In answer to your question about resident guides, all guides are licensed in Nevada by NDOW and they do not have to be residents, only licensed here. USO is licensed here and I imagine they put in for the guide draw. All licensed guides can apply for tags in the guide draw regardless of where they live.
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Bulzeye
Guest
I think what it boils down to now is that the 9th Curcit Court ruled that ANY discrimination in non resident quotas is unconstitutional. OSO sees the ruling as a gold mine and will no longer settle for just 10%
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bhertzog
Guest
Did anyone see in the announcement regarding the lawsuit that USO is going after NV for lost income??? These guys are going for the jugular on this one!! I guess they'll just keep going from state to state. Remember, they are only out there selling horns/hides, not just guiding hunters...What a joke!
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RACKMASTER
Guest
All of NEVADA is limited entry their are no general areas,that why a resident can't even hunt every year in his or her home state for big game!
jack
jack
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RACKMASTER
Guest
If the Supreme court gets it I think it changes to 25%.
RM
RM
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nvsportsman
Guest
According to the NDOW webpage on the next agenda the "Commissioners will hear a report from Nevada?s deputy attorney general about a recent complaint that has been filed that seeks to overturn Commission Policy 20 as discriminatory, thereby eliminating quotas for nonresident big game tags in Nevada. Further, the complaint seeks damages for lost income and business opportunities by the plaintiffs."
I just spoke with a Nevada Wildlife Commissioner and he informed me that Mr. Taulman is also suing the state of Nevada for 50% of ALL big game tags issued to nonresidents (not the original 10% he asked for). Is this greed or what? Boycott USO Outfitters!
I just spoke with a Nevada Wildlife Commissioner and he informed me that Mr. Taulman is also suing the state of Nevada for 50% of ALL big game tags issued to nonresidents (not the original 10% he asked for). Is this greed or what? Boycott USO Outfitters!
The boycott is progressing well but Taulman gets his money from the tag business then outfitting those hunts. He is a low life poacher who has been indicted for illegally using aircraft to drive game to hunters. Would you all expect him to be of high moral character? We will legally make his camps pure misery with some good old up close camping this fall. We have sources who will give us the locations of USO base camps. Since some people here feel strongly that the federal lands are for all we are gonna execute our constitutional right to go camping. Maybe we also have a constitutional right to drink a lot of whisky. Maybe we will be a little loud and camp a little close but we are just freindly that way. We would never harrass a hunter in the woods 'cause that ain't legal now is it? This is just about as good as the second amendment and the hunters in the west feel about as strong about it. It will be an interesting fall.
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MrBaitnFish
Guest
I agree, things are going to get ugly this fall in the field for USO. There's a lot of nucking futs running around the west. I can't imagine what Taulman must be thinking. No amount of money is worth making several hundred thousand enemies. I hope he's well insured. How many local guides are going to want to work for him under the pressure he's creating. Probably going to be a high turnover for George from here on out.
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sirfilbert
Guest
Gleninaz. Howdy. I will be hunting in your state this year for deer but rest assured this NR has nothing to do with USO. If your're out in 13b and see my trailer with the big "No USO here" sign, stop on in and chat. I'm a Utahn that got lucky and drew and hope that all understand that Utah plates don't necessarily mean I'm the enemy. Just a lucky booger. I guess all those bonus points I racked up paid off.
Kirk
Kirk
Kirk-Congrats! That is awesome and your sign idea is a hoot. Great frikkin idea if Taulman doesn't make some for his own camps. I didn't get drawn for any of my five apps so I will be on one of the camping teams and handling firearm safety training at the camp. Have a great hunt and let us know how you did.
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sirfilbert
Guest
Hey Gleninaz. This Utahnan got lucky and will be hunting deer in your state this year. Rest assured that USO will not be along for the hunt. We do things by ourselves. If your out on 13b look for the trailer with the "NO USO HERE" sign on it and stop by and chat. I believe that Utah is not far behind NV in being the next one up to the plate. I guess all my bonus points and NR tags fees added up this year.
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Nofear4
Guest
sirfilbert
Congrats on your AZ tag, Welcome to AZ. Thats a great idea, a "NO USO SIGN"
I have a feeling that pro USO hunts may not have as much fun as possible, as years in the past!
nofear4
Congrats on your AZ tag, Welcome to AZ. Thats a great idea, a "NO USO SIGN"
I have a feeling that pro USO hunts may not have as much fun as possible, as years in the past!
nofear4
