Western Hunt Expo. What is really going on?

[notdonhunting]

The odds at the Expo the last several years for the good tags has been around 1:5,000. The odds for a Henry's deer tag last year was 1:11,000

If you saved the $100 in Expo application fees and went to Vegas or Wendover and put the $100 as a straight bet on Roulette and won and then let the winnings ride and bet on another straight bet and won... YOU'D HAVE $122,500. And your odds are 1:1,440 of winning twice in a row at roulette.

The Henry's deer tag sold for $130,000 at the auction. It seems to me the smart money is to take the 8x better odds and head to Vegas then just buy the tag.

Thanks for your annual example of your brilliance!

 

[wstrntines]

As long as no Idaho residents apply for expo tags then that’s fine. No tags given then that should disqualify any resident from that state that doesn’t put up any tags for the draw. The states surrounding Utah want to make it so expensive for non residents. I think it’s time Utah sends a clear message right back to them.

 

[lostinOregon]

Utah does by issuing one tag in most limited entry deer draws. Utah is not a Mecca for out of state hunters. They make Nevada seem out of control with their deer tag numbers.

 

[2lumpy]

Hey Lumpy?

Will There Be An MM Version?

EXPO Version?

Guide & Outfitters Version?

Oh yea……. It’ll have calibration options, for another $12,000.00

 

[wstrntines]

Utah does by issuing one tag in most limited entry deer draws. Utah is not a Mecca for out of state hunters. They make Nevada seem out of control with their deer tag numbers.

That’s one tag too many.

 

[Horsecorn]

Geez don, do you walk around with your head in the sand. That’s how 80 percent of charities work. I don’t have proof the Russians have nukes either, but I can assure you they do.

 

[lostinOregon]

That’s one tag too many.

You Buzz’s brother?

 

[notdonhunting]

Geez don, do you walk around with your head in the sand. That’s how 80 percent of charities work. I don’t have proof the Russians have nukes either, but I can assure you they do.

Great response

 

[wstrntines]

You Buzz’s brother?

No I’m not related to that goober I just wanna see Utah give him the middle finger back. Both Wyoming and Idaho think it’s quite comical in raising prices. So I feel we should one up them and make our limited entry tags $4,500.00 for non residents. Wyoming is going to have a point system before long. Those gravy GS days will come to an end.

 

[joesikora]

I just wish about a thousand more of you guys would boycott this thing. And yes my motives are not pure... ;-)

Mozey you ole ridge runner how are you? I thought about you today wondering what you have been up to lately anything good?

 

[elkfromabove]

I was there validating my tags and I sure didn't see you. I didn't see anyone in "bedazzled" jeans. What I did see, was that most everyone were average joes wearing loose fit jeans and curved billed ball caps. Lot of kids running around very excited and looking to have a great time.

And that's why it is so successful every year! The average joes have no idea where the money goes, nor do they care! Most of them also don't know that this (or any other) forum exists, let alone have an opinion about wildlife management. They figure the DWR, SFW, RMEF, MDF, etc. are all looking out for them and will do what's in their best interest. And, like many of you, they simply see the EXPO tags as a pleasant additional opportunity to draw a tag and they don't question the consequences.

Even some of you miss the boat. It wasn't long ago that Bess told me about a bunch of baiting sites he had found in Southern Utah. I suspect that most of the baiters had no idea it was illegal 'cause Sportsmans Warehouse and Cal Ranch still sold salt blocks and DeerCaine. In any case I reminded him that he had only found a bunch of places the HE CAN"T HUNT EITHER!
AND, the $10 application fee to Nevada keeps coming up, when in fact, the Nevada company, Systems Consultants only gets $3.01 (to $3.50, depending on the year) and the rest is kept by the DWR for their use. That is the amount the EXPO Partners wanted to keep from the EXPO tag applications per their claim the EXPO permit program is just another way of distributing tags. Once they made that proposition, UWC couldn't get them to budge, even though Systems Consultants does a WHOLE LOT MORE for their $3.01 to $3.50 than the EXPO Partners ever could! IMO, Systems Consultants earns their take. EXPO Partners does not! Money seems to change our priorities, which is what I saw happen to SFW.

 

[Bluehair]

Too many of these drawing systems companies come out of Nevada. Does anyone besides me suspect that the same dudes writing slots algorithms are moonlighting with the “random” draws?

 

[Tristate]

And that's why it is so successful every year! The average joes have no idea where the money goes, nor do they care! Most of them also don't know that this (or any other) forum exists, let alone have an opinion about wildlife management. They figure the DWR, SFW, RMEF, MDF, etc. are all looking out for them and will do what's in their best interest. And, like many of you, they simply see the EXPO tags as a pleasant additional opportunity to draw a tag and they don't question the consequences.

Even some of you miss the boat. It wasn't long ago that Bess told me about a bunch of baiting sites he had found in Southern Utah. I suspect that most of the baiters had no idea it was illegal 'cause Sportsmans Warehouse and Cal Ranch still sold salt blocks and DeerCaine. In any case I reminded him that he had only found a bunch of places the HE CAN"T HUNT EITHER!
AND, the $10 application fee to Nevada keeps coming up, when in fact, the Nevada company, Systems Consultants only gets $3.01 (to $3.50, depending on the year) and the rest is kept by the DWR for their use. That is the amount the EXPO Partners wanted to keep from the EXPO tag applications per their claim the EXPO permit program is just another way of distributing tags. Once they made that proposition, UWC couldn't get them to budge, even though Systems Consultants does a WHOLE LOT MORE for their $3.01 to $3.50 than the EXPO Partners ever could! IMO, Systems Consultants earns their take. EXPO Partners does not! Money seems to change our priorities, which is what I saw happen to SFW.

What are "the consequences "?

 

[elkfromabove]

What are "the consequences "?

You tell me!

 

[elkfromabove]

Too many of these drawing systems companies come out of Nevada. Does anyone besides me suspect that the same dudes writing slots algorithms are moonlighting with the “random” draws?

https://www.sci-nevada.com/AboutUs.aspx

 

[Bluehair]

https://www.sci-nevada.com/AboutUs.aspx

That doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Good to see that the single most important transactions in some peoples lives are conducted from a remodeled dollar store with a lifted camaro out front.

 

[Triple7]

The odds at the Expo the last several years for the good tags has been around 1:5,000. The odds for a Henry's deer tag last year was 1:11,000

If you saved the $100 in Expo application fees and went to Vegas or Wendover and put the $100 as a straight bet on Roulette and won and then let the winnings ride and bet on another straight bet and won... YOU'D HAVE $122,500. And your odds are 1:1,440 of winning twice in a row at roulette.

The Henry's deer tag sold for $130,000 at the auction. It seems to me the smart money is to take the 8x better odds and head to Vegas then just buy the tag.

And 99.9 % of the time the house - meaning Vegas or these raffles always wins ! But yes I agree better odds in Vegas.

 

[ridgetops]

You tell me!

Please tell.

 

[ridgetops]

And that's why it is so successful every year! The average joes have no idea where the money goes, nor do they care! Most of them also don't know that this (or any other) forum exists, let alone have an opinion about wildlife management. They figure the DWR, SFW, RMEF, MDF, etc. are all looking out for them and will do what's in their best interest. And, like many of you, they simply see the EXPO tags as a pleasant additional opportunity to draw a tag and they don't question the consequences.

Even some of you miss the boat. It wasn't long ago that Bess told me about a bunch of baiting sites he had found in Southern Utah. I suspect that most of the baiters had no idea it was illegal 'cause Sportsmans Warehouse and Cal Ranch still sold salt blocks and DeerCaine. In any case I reminded him that he had only found a bunch of places the HE CAN"T HUNT EITHER!
AND, the $10 application fee to Nevada keeps coming up, when in fact, the Nevada company, Systems Consultants only gets $3.01 (to $3.50, depending on the year) and the rest is kept by the DWR for their use. That is the amount the EXPO Partners wanted to keep from the EXPO tag applications per their claim the EXPO permit program is just another way of distributing tags. Once they made that proposition, UWC couldn't get them to budge, even though Systems Consultants does a WHOLE LOT MORE for their $3.01 to $3.50 than the EXPO Partners ever could! IMO, Systems Consultants earns their take. EXPO Partners does not! Money seems to change our priorities, which is what I saw happen to SFW.

Does this mean you didn't take the drive north to see our wonderful capital and partake of its wonderful fruits it had to offer?

 

[elkfromabove]

Does this mean you didn't take the drive north to see our wonderful capital and partake of its wonderful fruits it had to offer?

I grew up in Magna, graduated from Cyprus High, and I used to hunt pheasants In what is now WVC and on the dry farms south to the Point of the Mountain! And I hunted deer and elk in the Oquirrh's west of town. Yes, I know what it now has to offer!!!!!

 

[ridgetops]

I grew up in Magna, graduated from Cyprus High, and I used to hunt pheasants In what is now WVC and on the dry farms south to the Point of the Mountain! And I hunted deer and elk in the Oquirrh's west of town. Yes, I know what it now has to offer!!!!!

Why do so many people seem to dodge the question at hand? Maybe bess can chime in.

 

[Tristate]

You tell me!

You claimed that people didn't know "the consequences ".

I don't know of any consequences.

So are you saying you don't know any consequences either?

 

[elkfromabove]

You claimed that people didn't know "the consequences ".

I don't know of any consequences.

So are you saying you don't know any consequences either?

I've already stated the consequences many times on this forum, but apparently no one believes me or they drop the issue the moment the EXPO ends! The consequences show up at EVERY meeting SFW and MDF attend! The EXPO and Conservation Permit Programs provide leverage for SFW and MDF to promote themselves and their agenda, and I can't remember a meeting where it wasn't mentioned! 4 SFW members on the Wildlife Board isn't a consequence? Most of the posts before me aren't consequences? The unethical, if not illegal awarding of the of the tags to SFW/MDF, the 5 year extension and the stiffer requirements to qualify aren't consequences? Somebody's solution usually becomes somebody else's problem!

I'm done with this wrangling! (And probably hunting.) I just had another cardioversion yesterday and I figure 18 is enough. I'll just rebuild some guns and do some family history. My last piece of advice is: Kill the Cheatgrass!!!!

 

[Tristate]

I've already stated the consequences many times on this forum, but apparently no one believes me or they drop the issue the moment the EXPO ends! The consequences show up at EVERY meeting SFW and MDF attend! The EXPO and Conservation Permit Programs provide leverage for SFW and MDF to promote themselves and their agenda, and I can't remember a meeting where it wasn't mentioned! 4 SFW members on the Wildlife Board isn't a consequence? Most of the posts before me aren't consequences? The unethical, if not illegal awarding of the of the tags to SFW/MDF, the 5 year extension and the stiffer requirements to qualify aren't consequences? Somebody's solution usually becomes somebody else's problem!

I'm done with this wrangling! (And probably hunting.) I just had another cardioversion yesterday and I figure 18 is enough. I'll just rebuild some guns and do some family history. My last piece of advice is: Kill the Cheatgrass!!!!

So the membership of SFW getting a voice in wildlife decisions is "consequences "??????

People with differing opinions than yours are "consequences "?

How cold is Moscow this time of year?

 

[eelgrass]

That doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Good to see that the single most important transactions in some peoples lives are conducted from a remodeled dollar store with a lifted camaro out front.

View attachment 137517

It's very honest and secure. Just ask them.

 

[mozey]

Mozey you ole ridge runner how are you? I thought about you today wondering what you have been up to lately anything good?

Thanks for asking, Joe. It's been getting a little rough these days.

After 20+ years of shaving my head, I decided to grow my hair out for some additional sun protection for when I start the Pacific Crest Trail (PCT) in a about a month. Well, while it's been growing good on the sides, I've got this bald spot on top of my head that's starting to give off a Bozo the Clown vibe. Women just don't seem to be going for this look at all...

On top of that, the whistleblowers (bless their efforts) again weren't able to convince enough jokers to boycott the Western Fraud Expo this year, so it looks like I'll probably die before I ever get a chance to hunt a rocky mountain bighorn and complete my slam.

Then, driving back to NM yesterday, my check engine light came on. And don't get me started about how much my other hunts are costing me this year.

Life is tough, man.

You?

 

[youngstock14]

I enjoy looking at the mounts and new gadgets that are on the market and giving my yearly donation to the draw. Not sure I like how this contributes to what I consider the rotten part of where hunting has gone. I see lots of big egos and ultimately everyone trying to make money off of the animals. The true sport of hunting is gone, now it is about money. (Expo contributes to that and since I attend I probably contribute to that as well). I actually enjoyed my time in the mountains before the expo every came about.

 

[Bux n Dux]

From the 200 draw tags, yes from what I understand that money stops at the border.
So you do understand that there is 500 permits that the Utah DWR allocated for conservation permits.
So the 300 is not stolen from the public draw system
I don't care if other states have permits to auction off, that has nothing to do about Utah DWR allocating permits for the EXPO.
The EXPO has become successful to the point that other states are now using the EXPO to auction some of there premier tags.
Sheep Camp raffles off 5 premier sheep hunts
It seems the EXPO is doing something right

Those permits came from somewhere. This isn’t the save Ukraine fund we are talking about here where they print money out of thin air and give it away. There’s only so many animals on the landscape. The animals belong to the people. Those tags might be set aside by the DWR, but they originate from somewhere. Those tags and animals taken with them don’t just magically appear. They come out of the quota the DWR determines for every unit and hunt in the state.

 

[wstrntines]

Those permits came from somewhere. This isn’t the save Ukraine fund we are talking about here where they print money out of thin air and give it away. There’s only so many animals on the landscape. The animals belong to the people. Those tags might be set aside by the DWR, but they originate from somewhere. Those tags and animals taken with them don’t just magically appear. They come out of the quota the DWR determines for every unit and hunt in the state.

Non residents shouldn’t get a thing aside from buying merchandise and auction tags. Utah is like the US funding NATO and the bordering states are like Europe’s mooching a55es.

 

[joesikora]

Thanks for asking, Joe. It's been getting a little rough these days.

After 20+ years of shaving my head, I decided to grow my hair out for some additional sun protection for when I start the Pacific Crest Trail (PCT) in a about a month. Well, while it's been growing good on the sides, I've got this bald spot on top of my head that's starting to give off a Bozo the Clown vibe. Women just don't seem to be going for this look at all...

On top of that, the whistleblowers (bless their efforts) again weren't able to convince enough jokers to boycott the Western Fraud Expo this year, so it looks like I'll probably die before I ever get a chance to hunt a rocky mountain bighorn and complete my slam.

Then, driving back to NM yesterday, my check engine light came on. And don't get me started about how much my other hunts are costing me this year.

Life is tough, man.

You?

Living the dream! I had a hip replacement in the middle of May last year can back to see the Dr about four months later and had to have a revision surgery then less then a week later I had to have a second revision surgery then because the surgeries were so close together I developed Delirium! Not fun at all. Mrs Sikora just told me that I was in the hospital for a month or so I had no idea.
Now to more important things… those ladies not liking the new do, tattoo a few eggs on top to make a birds nest. Chicks loves guys with a purpose! LOL! Are you drawing for NM this season? I’m trying for
MI
16d
16a
34
Elk this season
If I draw I’ll ring you up

 

[mozey]

Living the dream! I had a hip replacement in the middle of May last year can back to see the Dr about four months later and had to have a revision surgery then less then a week later I had to have a second revision surgery then because the surgeries were so close together I developed Delirium! Not fun at all. Mrs Sikora just told me that I was in the hospital for a month or so I had no idea.
Now to more important things… those ladies not liking the new do, tattoo a few eggs on top to make a birds nest. Chicks loves guys with a purpose! LOL! Are you drawing for NM this season? I’m trying for
MI
16d
16a
34
Elk this season
If I draw I’ll ring you up

Sorry to hear about that hip--that does not sound fun at all. Hopefully you'll be able to put the new hip to the test on one of those hunts. Yeah, I'll be happy to take whatever NMDGF will give me.

 

[SS!]

Non residents shouldn’t get a thing aside from buying merchandise and auction tags. Utah is like the US funding NATO and the bordering states are like Europe’s mooching a55es.

Any state that borders Utah has felt the burden of the wave of tards to their winter ranges etc. it’s no coincidence shed seasons are only in states that border Utah.

Every expo tag won by a NR is retribution no doubt.

 

[Bluehair]

Restitution? It’s all the rage now.

 

[elkfromabove]

That doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Good to see that the single most important transactions in some peoples lives are conducted from a remodeled dollar store with a lifted camaro out front.
View attachment 137517

Holy Clones of Tristate! I knew we had a few who judged the value, worth or integrity of a person by their looks, but I didn't think it would extend to a business! The EXPO is too fancy, but DWR's draw vendor isn't fancy enough? Those people working INSIDE are highly educated, trained computer experts ("nerds") who have enough knowledge and security clearance to write programs for the US military, Bureau of Reclamation, colleges, universities, telephone companies, hospitals, medical research facilities, etc. and you concentrate on a lifted Camaro out front? I've given you enough info about Systems Consultants and their contract with the DWR over the years for you to make a rational decision and you chose now to go Tristate. So be it. At least we (and you) now know what you value.

So the membership of SFW getting a voice in wildlife decisions is "consequences "??????

People with differing opinions than yours are "consequences "?

How cold is Moscow this time of year?

This will probably get me banned, but Tristate, you're an uneducated fool! EVERY ACTION HAS CONSEQUENCES!!!!! (Look it up.) Some of them are positive and beneficial and others negative and destructive. But most of them are judged by the judger's standards which are nearly always based on emotions. This post is typical of you. You make a foolish claim and then back it up with a stupid thinly-veiled insult. BTW, how hot is Hell this time of year?

FWIW, I hope none of you ever see my gun refurbishing workspace! That'll kill my other thread.

 

[Tristate]

Holy Clones of Tristate! I knew we had a few who judged the value, worth or integrity of a person by their looks, but I didn't think it would extend to a business! The EXPO is too fancy, but DWR's draw vendor isn't fancy enough? Those people working INSIDE are highly educated, trained computer experts ("nerds") who have enough knowledge and security clearance to write programs for the US military, Bureau of Reclamation, colleges, universities, telephone companies, hospitals, medical research facilities, etc. and you concentrate on a lifted Camaro out front? I've given you enough info about Systems Consultants and their contract with the DWR over the years for you to make a rational decision and you chose now to go Tristate. So be it. At least we (and you) now know what you value.

This will probably get me banned, but Tristate, you're an uneducated fool! EVERY ACTION HAS CONSEQUENCES!!!!! (Look it up.) Some of them are positive and beneficial and others negative and destructive. But most of them are judged by the judger's standards which are nearly always based on emotions. This post is typical of you. You make a foolish claim and then back it up with a stupid thinly-veiled insult. BTW, how hot is Hell this time of year?

FWIW, I hope none of you ever see my gun refurbishing workspace! That'll kill my other thread.

Wew!

Somebody doesn't like getting called out for his un-American ideals.

You'll get invited to the next one elkfromabove.

 

[Bluehair]

Holy Clones of Tristate! I knew we had a few who judged the value, worth or integrity of a person by their looks, but I didn't think it would extend to a business! The EXPO is too fancy, but DWR's draw vendor isn't fancy enough? Those people working INSIDE are highly educated, trained computer experts ("nerds") who have enough knowledge and security clearance to write programs for the US military, Bureau of Reclamation, colleges, universities, telephone companies, hospitals, medical research facilities, etc. and you concentrate on a lifted Camaro out front? I've given you enough info about Systems Consultants and their contract with the DWR over the years for you to make a rational decision and you chose now to go Tristate. So be it. At least we (and you) now know what you value.

This will probably get me banned, but Tristate, you're an uneducated fool! EVERY ACTION HAS CONSEQUENCES!!!!! (Look it up.) Some of them are positive and beneficial and others negative and destructive. But most of them are judged by the judger's standards which are nearly always based on emotions. This post is typical of you. You make a foolish claim and then back it up with a stupid thinly-veiled insult. BTW, how hot is Hell this time of year?

FWIW, I hope none of you ever see my gun refurbishing workspace! That'll kill my other thread.

Calm down Karen. It’s on you if you took one of my posts seriously.

 

[elkfromabove]

Calm down Karen. It’s on you if you took one of my posts seriously.

I'm sorry! It won't happen again.

 

[marburg]

The odds at the Expo the last several years for the good tags has been around 1:5,000. The odds for a Henry's deer tag last year was 1:11,000

If you saved the $100 in Expo application fees and went to Vegas or Wendover and put the $100 as a straight bet on Roulette and won and then let the winnings ride and bet on another straight bet and won... YOU'D HAVE $122,500. And your odds are 1:1,440 of winning twice in a row at roulette.

The Henry's deer tag sold for $130,000 at the auction. It seems to me the smart money is to take the 8x better odds and head to Vegas then just buy the tag.

Its more than $100 now, I would wager for most its closer to $300.

 

[bowhunt]

Quit worrying about the number of tags taken out of the draw system and put up for bid, there is not that many:


MDF Buck Pronghorn Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, Snowville Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, West Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Cache/Morgan-South Rich/Ogden Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Fillmore, Oak Creek South Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Mt Dutton/Paunsaugunt Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Anthro-Myton Bench Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn North Slope, Three Corners/West Daggett Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Plateau, Highlands Discontinued
MDF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Bonanza/Diamond Mtn Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Bonanza/Diamond Mtn Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Vernal Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Vernal Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Statewide Statewide
MDF Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Snake Valley Any Weapon
MDF Bull Elk Beaver, East Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Muzzleloader
MDF Bull Elk Cache, Meadowville Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Cache, Meadowville Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Muzzleloader
MDF Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Monroe Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Mt Dutton Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Mt Dutton Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder Choice of ALW season

MDF Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Muzzleloader
MDF Bull Elk San Juan Bull Elk Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mtn Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mtn Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Multiseason
MDF Bull Moose Ogden Any Weapon
MDF Mountain Goat Beaver (early) Any Weapon
National Wild Turkey Federation
Group Species Area Condition
NWTF Antlerless Elk Central Mtns Any Weapon
NWTF Antlerless Elk Central Mtns Any Weapon
NWTF Black Bear Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Multiseason
NWTF Black Bear Central Mtns, Manti-North Multiseason
NWTF Black Bear La Sal Multiseason
NWTF Black Bear Panguitch Lake/Zion Multiseason
NWTF Black Bear Wasatch Mtns, West-Central Multiseason
NWTF Buck Deer Book Cliffs Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Deer Paunsaugunt Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Deer Paunsaugunt Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Mtn Archery
NWTF Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Range Creek Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, Desert Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Riverbed Any Weapon
NWTF Bull Elk Cache, South Choice of ALW season

NWTF Bull Elk Central Mtns, Nebo Multiseason
NWTF Bull Elk North Slope, Three Corners Multiseason
NWTF Bull Moose Wasatch Mtns/Central Mtns Any Weapon
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Group Species Area Condition
RMEF Antlerless Elk Cache Any Weapon
RMEF Antlerless Elk Plateau Any Weapon
RMEF Bison Henry Mtns, Hunter's Choice (mid) Any Weapon
RMEF Black Bear Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Multiseason
RMEF Black Bear Nine Mile Multiseason
RMEF Black Bear Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits Multiseason
RMEF Black Bear San Juan Multiseason
RMEF Black Bear Wasatch Mtns, West-Central Multiseason
RMEF Buck Pronghorn Cache/Morgan-South Rich/Ogden Any Weapon
RMEF Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Anthro-Myton Bench Any Weapon
RMEF Buck Pronghorn Plateau, Highlands Discontinued
RMEF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon
RMEF Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Bonanza/Diamond Mtn Any Weapon
RMEF Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
RMEF Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Snake Valley Any Weapon
RMEF Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Choice of ALW season

RMEF Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Muzzleloader
RMEF Bull Elk Monroe Multiseason
RMEF Bull Elk Panguitch Lake Multiseason
RMEF Bull Elk Paunsaugunt Discontinued
RMEF Bull Elk Paunsaugunt Discontinued
RMEF Bull Elk Paunsaugunt Discontinued
RMEF Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk San Juan Bull Elk Multiseason
RMEF Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mtn Multiseason
RMEF Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Muzzleloader
RMEF Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Multiseason
RMEF Bull Moose Statewide Statewide
Safari Club International
Group Species Area Condition
SCI Antlerless Elk Cache Any Weapon
SCI Antlerless Elk Cache Any Weapon
SCI Antlerless Elk Central Mtns Any Weapon
SCI Antlerless Elk Plateau Any Weapon
SCI Antlerless Elk Wasatch Mtns Any Weapon
SCI Bison Henry Mtns, Hunter's Choice (late) Any Weapon
SCI Black Bear Central Mtns, Nebo Multiseason
SCI Black Bear San Juan Multiseason
SCI Black Bear South Slope, Yellowstone Multiseason
SCI Buck Deer Book Cliffs Hunter's Choice of Season
SCI Buck Deer San Juan, Elk Ridge Muzzleloader
SCI Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Mtn Any Weapon
SCI Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Hunter's Choice of Season
SCI Buck Pronghorn Panguitch Lake/Zion, North Any Weapon
SCI Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon

SCI Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Riverbed Any Weapon
SCI Bull Elk Cache, Meadowville Choice of ALW season
SCI Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Choice of ALW season
SCI Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder Choice of ALW season
SCI Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Multiseason
SCI Bull Moose North Slope, Summit Any Weapon
SCI Mountain Goat Central Mtns, Nebo Any Weapon
SCI Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
SCI Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region Multiseason
SCI Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SCI Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
SCI Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife
Group Species Area Condition
SFW Antlerless Elk Cache Any Weapon
SFW Antlerless Elk Central Mtns Any Weapon
SFW Antlerless Elk Plateau Any Weapon
SFW Bison Henry Mtns, Cow Only (early) Any Weapon
SFW Bison Henry Mtns, Hunter's Choice (early) Any Weapon
SFW Bison Statewide Statewide
SFW Black Bear Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Book Cliffs, Little Creek Roadless Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Central Mtns, Manti-South/San Rafael, North Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Nine Mile Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Wasatch Mtns, West-Central Multiseason
SFW Buck Deer Book Cliffs Any Weapon
SFW Buck Deer Book Cliffs Archery
SFW Buck Deer Book Cliffs Muzzleloader
SFW Buck Deer Cache, Crawford Mtn Muzzleloader
SFW Buck Deer Fillmore, Oak Creek LE Hunter's Choice of Season
SFW Buck Deer Henry Mtns Hunter's Choice of Season

SFW Buck Deer La Sal, Dolores Triangle Hunter's Choice of Season
SFW Buck Deer San Juan, Elk Ridge Hunter's Choice of Season
SFW Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Any Weapon
SFW Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Hunter's Choice of Season
SFW Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Muzzleloader
SFW Buck Pronghorn Beaver Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Book Cliffs, South Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, Snowville Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, West Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Cache/Morgan-South Rich/Ogden Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Fillmore, Oak Creek South Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn La Sal, Potash/South Cisco Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Mt Dutton/Paunsaugunt Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Anthro-Myton Bench Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Anthro-Myton Bench Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn North Slope, Three Corners/West Daggett Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Panguitch Lake/Zion, North Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Pine Valley Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Vernal Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Rush Valley Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Snake Valley Any Weapon
SFW Bull Elk Beaver, East Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Box Elder, Grouse Creek Multiseason
SFW Bull Elk Cache, South Multiseason
SFW Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Multiseason
SFW Bull Elk Central Mtns, Nebo Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Central Mtns, Nebo Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Multiseason

SFW Bull Elk Mt Dutton Multiseason
SFW Bull Elk Panguitch Lake Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Paunsaugunt Discontinued
SFW Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder Archery
SFW Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Archery
SFW Bull Elk San Juan Bull Elk Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk San Juan Bull Elk Archery
SFW Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Archery
SFW Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Multiseason
SFW Bull Elk Statewide Statewide
SFW Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Archery
SFW Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Muzzleloader
SFW Bull Moose Cache Any Weapon
SFW Cougar Statewide Statewide
SFW Desert Bighorn Sheep Henry Mtns Any Weapon
SFW Desert Bighorn Sheep Kaiparowits, East Any Weapon
SFW Desert Bighorn Sheep Kaiparowits, Escalante Any Weapon
SFW Desert Bighorn Sheep San Rafael, Dirty Devil Any Weapon
SFW Desert Bighorn Sheep Statewide Statewide
SFW Mountain Goat Chalk Creek/Kamas, Uintas Any Weapon
SFW Mountain Goat Statewide Statewide
SFW Mountain Goat Wasatch Mtns, Timpanogos Any Weapon
SFW Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Book Cliffs, South Any Weapon
SFW Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Fillmore, Oak Creek (late) Any Weapon
SFW Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Nine Mile, Gray Canyon Any Weapon
SFW Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Oquirrh-Stansbury, West Any Weapon
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason

SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
Utah Archery Association
Group Species Area Condition
UAA Bison Henry Mtns, Cow Only (late) Any Weapon
UAA Black Bear Central Mtns, Manti-North Multiseason
UAA Buck Deer Paunsaugunt Hunter's Choice of Season
UAA Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Archery
UAA Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Archery
UAA Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Archery
UAA Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Archery
UAA Bull Moose Wasatch Mtns/Central Mtns Any Weapon
UAA Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
Utah Houndsmen Association
Group Species Area Condition
UHA Antlerless Elk Wasatch Mtns Any Weapon
UHA Black Bear Beaver Multiseason
UHA Black Bear La Sal Multiseason
UHA Black Bear Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Multiseason
Utah Wild Sheep Foundation
Group Species Area Condition
UWSF Bison Book Cliffs, Little Creek/South, Hunter's Choice Any Weapon
UWSF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon

 

[Vanilla]

If my quick counting is correct, 362 permits. Is 9 sheep tags a year for one organization a lot?

Support this and then come at me about point creep. Make it make sense!

 

[joesikora]

If my quick counting is correct, 362 permits. Is 9 sheep tags a year for one organization a lot?

Support this and then come at me about point creep. Make it make sense!

Wow that’s a lot! Now does that include the tags that are given to other organizations to raise money for their banquets?

 

[elkhunterUT]

Quit worrying about the number of tags taken out of the draw system and put up for bid, there is not that many:


MDF Buck Pronghorn Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, Snowville Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, West Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Cache/Morgan-South Rich/Ogden Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Fillmore, Oak Creek South Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Mt Dutton/Paunsaugunt Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Anthro-Myton Bench Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn North Slope, Three Corners/West Daggett Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Plateau, Highlands Discontinued
MDF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Bonanza/Diamond Mtn Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Bonanza/Diamond Mtn Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Vernal Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Vernal Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
MDF Buck Pronghorn Statewide Statewide
MDF Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Snake Valley Any Weapon
MDF Bull Elk Beaver, East Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Muzzleloader
MDF Bull Elk Cache, Meadowville Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Cache, Meadowville Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Muzzleloader
MDF Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Monroe Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Mt Dutton Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Mt Dutton Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder Choice of ALW season

MDF Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Muzzleloader
MDF Bull Elk San Juan Bull Elk Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mtn Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mtn Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Multiseason
MDF Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Choice of ALW season
MDF Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Multiseason
MDF Bull Moose Ogden Any Weapon
MDF Mountain Goat Beaver (early) Any Weapon
National Wild Turkey Federation
Group Species Area Condition
NWTF Antlerless Elk Central Mtns Any Weapon
NWTF Antlerless Elk Central Mtns Any Weapon
NWTF Black Bear Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Multiseason
NWTF Black Bear Central Mtns, Manti-North Multiseason
NWTF Black Bear La Sal Multiseason
NWTF Black Bear Panguitch Lake/Zion Multiseason
NWTF Black Bear Wasatch Mtns, West-Central Multiseason
NWTF Buck Deer Book Cliffs Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Deer Paunsaugunt Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Deer Paunsaugunt Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Mtn Archery
NWTF Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Range Creek Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, Desert Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
NWTF Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Riverbed Any Weapon
NWTF Bull Elk Cache, South Choice of ALW season

NWTF Bull Elk Central Mtns, Nebo Multiseason
NWTF Bull Elk North Slope, Three Corners Multiseason
NWTF Bull Moose Wasatch Mtns/Central Mtns Any Weapon
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
NWTF Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Group Species Area Condition
RMEF Antlerless Elk Cache Any Weapon
RMEF Antlerless Elk Plateau Any Weapon
RMEF Bison Henry Mtns, Hunter's Choice (mid) Any Weapon
RMEF Black Bear Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Multiseason
RMEF Black Bear Nine Mile Multiseason
RMEF Black Bear Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits Multiseason
RMEF Black Bear San Juan Multiseason
RMEF Black Bear Wasatch Mtns, West-Central Multiseason
RMEF Buck Pronghorn Cache/Morgan-South Rich/Ogden Any Weapon
RMEF Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Anthro-Myton Bench Any Weapon
RMEF Buck Pronghorn Plateau, Highlands Discontinued
RMEF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon
RMEF Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Bonanza/Diamond Mtn Any Weapon
RMEF Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
RMEF Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Snake Valley Any Weapon
RMEF Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Choice of ALW season

RMEF Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Muzzleloader
RMEF Bull Elk Monroe Multiseason
RMEF Bull Elk Panguitch Lake Multiseason
RMEF Bull Elk Paunsaugunt Discontinued
RMEF Bull Elk Paunsaugunt Discontinued
RMEF Bull Elk Paunsaugunt Discontinued
RMEF Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk San Juan Bull Elk Multiseason
RMEF Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mtn Multiseason
RMEF Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Muzzleloader
RMEF Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Choice of ALW season
RMEF Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Multiseason
RMEF Bull Moose Statewide Statewide
Safari Club International
Group Species Area Condition
SCI Antlerless Elk Cache Any Weapon
SCI Antlerless Elk Cache Any Weapon
SCI Antlerless Elk Central Mtns Any Weapon
SCI Antlerless Elk Plateau Any Weapon
SCI Antlerless Elk Wasatch Mtns Any Weapon
SCI Bison Henry Mtns, Hunter's Choice (late) Any Weapon
SCI Black Bear Central Mtns, Nebo Multiseason
SCI Black Bear San Juan Multiseason
SCI Black Bear South Slope, Yellowstone Multiseason
SCI Buck Deer Book Cliffs Hunter's Choice of Season
SCI Buck Deer San Juan, Elk Ridge Muzzleloader
SCI Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Mtn Any Weapon
SCI Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Hunter's Choice of Season
SCI Buck Pronghorn Panguitch Lake/Zion, North Any Weapon
SCI Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon

SCI Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Riverbed Any Weapon
SCI Bull Elk Cache, Meadowville Choice of ALW season
SCI Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Choice of ALW season
SCI Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder Choice of ALW season
SCI Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Multiseason
SCI Bull Moose North Slope, Summit Any Weapon
SCI Mountain Goat Central Mtns, Nebo Any Weapon
SCI Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
SCI Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region Multiseason
SCI Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SCI Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
SCI Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife
Group Species Area Condition
SFW Antlerless Elk Cache Any Weapon
SFW Antlerless Elk Central Mtns Any Weapon
SFW Antlerless Elk Plateau Any Weapon
SFW Bison Henry Mtns, Cow Only (early) Any Weapon
SFW Bison Henry Mtns, Hunter's Choice (early) Any Weapon
SFW Bison Statewide Statewide
SFW Black Bear Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Book Cliffs, Little Creek Roadless Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Central Mtns, Manti-South/San Rafael, North Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Nine Mile Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits Multiseason
SFW Black Bear Wasatch Mtns, West-Central Multiseason
SFW Buck Deer Book Cliffs Any Weapon
SFW Buck Deer Book Cliffs Archery
SFW Buck Deer Book Cliffs Muzzleloader
SFW Buck Deer Cache, Crawford Mtn Muzzleloader
SFW Buck Deer Fillmore, Oak Creek LE Hunter's Choice of Season
SFW Buck Deer Henry Mtns Hunter's Choice of Season

SFW Buck Deer La Sal, Dolores Triangle Hunter's Choice of Season
SFW Buck Deer San Juan, Elk Ridge Hunter's Choice of Season
SFW Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Any Weapon
SFW Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Hunter's Choice of Season
SFW Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Muzzleloader
SFW Buck Pronghorn Beaver Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Book Cliffs, South Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, Snowville Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, West Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Cache/Morgan-South Rich/Ogden Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Fillmore, Oak Creek South Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn La Sal, Potash/South Cisco Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Mt Dutton/Paunsaugunt Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Anthro-Myton Bench Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Anthro-Myton Bench Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn North Slope, Three Corners/West Daggett Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Panguitch Lake/Zion, North Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Pine Valley Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Vernal Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Rush Valley Any Weapon
SFW Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Snake Valley Any Weapon
SFW Bull Elk Beaver, East Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Box Elder, Grouse Creek Multiseason
SFW Bull Elk Cache, South Multiseason
SFW Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Multiseason
SFW Bull Elk Central Mtns, Nebo Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Central Mtns, Nebo Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Multiseason

SFW Bull Elk Mt Dutton Multiseason
SFW Bull Elk Panguitch Lake Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Paunsaugunt Discontinued
SFW Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder Archery
SFW Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Archery
SFW Bull Elk San Juan Bull Elk Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk San Juan Bull Elk Archery
SFW Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Archery
SFW Bull Elk Southwest Desert, South Multiseason
SFW Bull Elk Statewide Statewide
SFW Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Choice of ALW season
SFW Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Archery
SFW Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns Muzzleloader
SFW Bull Moose Cache Any Weapon
SFW Cougar Statewide Statewide
SFW Desert Bighorn Sheep Henry Mtns Any Weapon
SFW Desert Bighorn Sheep Kaiparowits, East Any Weapon
SFW Desert Bighorn Sheep Kaiparowits, Escalante Any Weapon
SFW Desert Bighorn Sheep San Rafael, Dirty Devil Any Weapon
SFW Desert Bighorn Sheep Statewide Statewide
SFW Mountain Goat Chalk Creek/Kamas, Uintas Any Weapon
SFW Mountain Goat Statewide Statewide
SFW Mountain Goat Wasatch Mtns, Timpanogos Any Weapon
SFW Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Book Cliffs, South Any Weapon
SFW Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Fillmore, Oak Creek (late) Any Weapon
SFW Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Nine Mile, Gray Canyon Any Weapon
SFW Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Oquirrh-Stansbury, West Any Weapon
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason

SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
SFW Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region Multiseason
Utah Archery Association
Group Species Area Condition
UAA Bison Henry Mtns, Cow Only (late) Any Weapon
UAA Black Bear Central Mtns, Manti-North Multiseason
UAA Buck Deer Paunsaugunt Hunter's Choice of Season
UAA Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Archery
UAA Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South Archery
UAA Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti Archery
UAA Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns Archery
UAA Bull Moose Wasatch Mtns/Central Mtns Any Weapon
UAA Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region Multiseason
Utah Houndsmen Association
Group Species Area Condition
UHA Antlerless Elk Wasatch Mtns Any Weapon
UHA Black Bear Beaver Multiseason
UHA Black Bear La Sal Multiseason
UHA Black Bear Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes Multiseason
Utah Wild Sheep Foundation
Group Species Area Condition
UWSF Bison Book Cliffs, Little Creek/South, Hunter's Choice Any Weapon
UWSF Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North Any Weapon

@elkassassin can we get you ranting about this for once? You rant about a lot of things, but this should be NUMERO UNO on the list my guy!!

I have always felt this is a gross abuse of the resource and in all actuality, dilutes the value of these tags because there are so many. Always thought Utah should have one or two auction tags for each species and call it good

 

[Vanilla]

Good luck! Bessy doesn't want to take away opportunity from the these folk. He just wants to take it away from the rest of us.

 

[Horsecorn]

I just threw up in my mouth seeing that crap.

 

[wstrntines]

Yeah too many elite tags they could cut that to a 1/16 of the size.

 

[MrShane]

It’s not right, it’s just not right….

 

[JakeH]

I have no problem with some conservation tags, but I do feel we have given way to many for a long time. I also feel it dilutes the value some.

In the April RAC meetings they go over permit numbers.

And in June the board goes over the conservation permit list but it's not an agenda item for the RAC's. I may try to bring up some of these concerns at these meetings, I suggest all of you do the same.

Edited to add this in.

 

[lostinOregon]

And who are on the RACs. SFW people?

 

[JakeH]

And who are on the RACs. SFW people?

I am on one of them. Mostly just normal people some probably support sfw, some don't.

There is a very big disconnect from what people believe, and what actually is. I wish everyone would get more involved honestly, but most would rather just complain online and on social media then actually get involved.

 

[elkassassin]

Is This The Entire List?

So?

You've Never Heard Me BITTCHING About How Everything In Hunting Is Destroyed By Money & GREED For Decades?

No!

I Don't Like It!

But Here's The Deal!

Everybody Bitches & Moans Almost Year Around!

But We Can't Get Everybody Together & Make A Stand!

I GUARAN-DAMN-TEE You If We Could Get Everybody To RISE & Make A STAND We Could Get Something Done!

That Hasn't Happened Ever!

What's The Chances Of It Happening Now Or In The Future?

As You Already Know!

PIMPING WildLife Ain't My Thing!

Not Saying It's Right!

But You've Heard Me Say It Umpteen F'N Times!

What Has Destroyed WildLife More Than Anything?

GREED & MONEY!!!

@elkassassin can we get you ranting about this for once? You rant about a lot of things, but this should be NUMERO UNO on the list my guy!!

I have always felt this is a gross abuse of the resource and in all actuality, dilutes the value of these tags because there are so many. Always thought Utah should have one or two auction tags for each species and call it good

 

[elkhunterUT]

Is This The Entire List?

So?

You've Never Heard Me BITTCHING About How Everything In Hunting Is Destroyed By Money & GREED For Decades?

No!

I Don't Like It!

But Here's The Deal!

Everybody Bitches & Moans Almost Year Around!

But We Can't Get Everybody Together & Make A Stand!

I GUARAN-DAMN-TEE You If We Could Get Everybody To RISE & Make A STAND We Could Get Something Done!

That Hasn't Happened Ever!

What's The Chances Of It Happening Now Or In The Future?

As You Already Know!

PIMPING WildLife Ain't My Thing!

Not Saying It's Right!

But You've Heard Me Say It Umpteen F'N Times!

What Has Destroyed WildLife More Than Anything?

GREED & MONEY!!!

With you 100% on that ol Bess! I will stand with you on this one. Can we get a few more?

 

[JakeH]

Is This The Entire List?

So?

You've Never Heard Me BITTCHING About How Everything In Hunting Is Destroyed By Money & GREED For Decades?

No!

I Don't Like It!

But Here's The Deal!

Everybody Bitches & Moans Almost Year Around!

But We Can't Get Everybody Together & Make A Stand!

I GUARAN-DAMN-TEE You If We Could Get Everybody To RISE & Make A STAND We Could Get Something Done!

That Hasn't Happened Ever!

What's The Chances Of It Happening Now Or In The Future?

As You Already Know!

PIMPING WildLife Ain't My Thing!

Not Saying It's Right!

But You've Heard Me Say It Umpteen F'N Times!

What Has Destroyed WildLife More Than Anything?

GREED & MONEY!!!

If you guys really want to make a difference with this, that September WB meeting would be a great one to start getting organized for.

I agree with you bess, if we actually organized a little we probably could get some stuff done. But if we miss put on this year, we will have to wait another 3 years before we can do it again as from the looks of that agenda List they will be going over the conservation tags for the next 3 years.

 

[joesikora]

Do any of those tags given to the different groups get raffled off or are they only used in an auction

 

[Utahlefty]

hunting fool keeps a state by state tally on conservation tags here:

Governor, Commissioner, Statewide, Raffle, & Conservation Tags & Permits - 2023 | Huntin' Fool

Governor, Commissioner, and Conservation Tags are another way you can buy a permit for some of the very best units in most states out west.

www.huntinfool.com

Utah - 362 tags
All the rest of North America - 340 tags

we're winning, right ??

 

[Bux n Dux]

hunting fool keeps a state by state tally on conservation tags here:

Governor, Commissioner, Statewide, Raffle, & Conservation Tags & Permits - 2023 | Huntin' Fool

Governor, Commissioner, and Conservation Tags are another way you can buy a permit for some of the very best units in most states out west.

www.huntinfool.com

Utah - 362 tags
All the rest of North America - 340 tags

we're winning, right ??

So then why is Utah SO concerned with “conservation” and tag auctions when other states aren’t?

 

[elkhunterUT]

hunting fool keeps a state by state tally on conservation tags here:

Governor, Commissioner, Statewide, Raffle, & Conservation Tags & Permits - 2023 | Huntin' Fool

Governor, Commissioner, and Conservation Tags are another way you can buy a permit for some of the very best units in most states out west.

www.huntinfool.com

Utah - 362 tags
All the rest of North America - 340 tags

we're winning, right ??

Serengeti of the West (according to Don Peay$) baby!! You would think Utah would be leaps and bounds ahead of other western states with all of that auction income, but we are on par or worse than most all western states.

More people need to wake up and become aware of this - Utah and all of these special interest groups have been taking advantage of this "welfare program" for way too long with nothing substantial to show for it. 362 tags - CMON MAN!

I am not against the auction tag approach all together, but 362 tags is a gross misuse of the resource. I would support 1 tag per species to be auctioned by the State and 1 tag per species in a raffle open to everyone, but that should be the max.

 

[Vanilla]

Hey, good news, I can count!

The same fools loving this program will be the same clamoring for changes at the RAC and WB complaining about point creep.

362 + 200 = 562

Let’s just call it 500 big game permits each year so we have a round number. 500 x 10 = 5000 more people that would have drawn the last decade. And keep in mind the 5 year wait period. After 5 years you have 2500 people out of the application pool EVERY year.

Putting these tags back in state’s big draw pool would not end point creep alone, but 5,000 more people drawing a tag every decade sure would help!

But those will just come at me with sob stories about too many rifle hunts or muzzy scopes and yap about “opportunity” instead.

 

[Vanilla]

I’m going to post a question here that I’ve posted other places recently.

Take all the conservation and expo tags issued since 2011 and add up the money generated. We’d be tens upon tens of millions of dollars. That is also the timeline in which a certain “conservation” organization shoved Option 2 down our throats to save the mule deer.

With all that added up, the promises made…tell me where we are better off in our big game herds today than we were in 2011. Can anyone give me an example of where we have improved big game in the last 13 years?

How is our deer hunting today compared to 13 years ago after implementing Option 2 and handing these “conservation” organizations millions upon millions of dollars in public welfare programs in the name of “conservation?”

How is hunting for me as an average Joe Utah resident today better for me today than it was 13 years ago?

What is the return on our investment?

 

[SS!]

Hey, good news, I can count!

The same fools loving this program will be the same clamoring for changes at the RAC and WB complaining about point creep.

362 + 200 = 562

Let’s just call it 500 big game permits each year so we have a round number. 500 x 10 = 5000 more people that would have drawn the last decade. And keep in mind the 5 year wait period. After 5 years you have 2500 people out of the application pool EVERY year.

Putting these tags back in state’s big draw pool would not end point creep alone, but 5,000 more people drawing a tag every decade sure would help!

But those will just come at me with sob stories about too many rifle hunts or muzzy scopes and yap about “opportunity” instead.

Just did a quick glance but I think the link provided above counts the 200 expo tags in the 362….

 

[elkhunterUT]

Just did a quick glance but I think the link provided above counts the 200 expo tags in the 362….

Don't think that is true - 362 listed in the link above are pure auction tags plus 200 additional Expo tags

 

[Utahlefty]

I’m going to post a question here that I’ve posted other places recently.

Take all the conservation and expo tags issued since 2011 and add up the money generated. We’d be tens upon tens of millions of dollars. That is also the timeline in which a certain “conservation” organization shoved Option 2 down our throats to save the mule deer.

With all that added up, the promises made…tell me where we are better off in our big game herds today than we were in 2011. Can anyone give me an example of where we have improved big game in the last 13 years?

How is our deer hunting today compared to 13 years ago after implementing Option 2 and handing these “conservation” organizations millions upon millions of dollars in public welfare programs in the name of “conservation?”

How is hunting for me as an average Joe Utah resident today better for me today than it was 13 years ago?

What is the return on our investment?

this may be the report you're looking for:

https://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/bg/conservation_permit_report_2022.pdf

 

[Utahlefty]

prior years links:

Utah Conservation Permit Program Annual Report

Utah's Conservation Permit Program provides benefits to all Utah hunters. Download the list of permits issued each year.

wildlife.utah.gov

 

[Vanilla]

Those are not the reports I’m looking for lefty, and how the money was spent is not the question I asked.

So I’ll ask it again.

Where is the improvement? What is better in big game hunting today than in 2011? How are the deer herds better today than they were then?

That is my question, not a report on dollars.

I’ll wait and see what people can come up with.

*Edit- that link is useful for one thing, however. It tells us how much we’ve handed these groups. SFW and MDF combined for nearly $50 million on the conservation tag program alone!

 

[Vanilla]

Just did a quick glance but I think the link provided above counts the 200 expo tags in the 362….

Nope! Don’t know what the link says as I didn’t open it, but the 362 listed off individually above are conservation tags only. Conservation tags and expo tags are different. The 362 are conservation tags. The 200 are expo tags.

 

[SS!]

Nope! Don’t know what the link says as I didn’t open it, but the 362 listed off individually above are conservation tags only. Conservation tags and expo tags are different. The 362 are conservation tags. The 200 are expo tags.

Maybe (probably) I’m wrong but the link provided had antlerless tags listed in the 362. Pretty sure those are expo tags?

If it’s really over 500 that is sad.

 

[Vanilla]

They give antlerless tags to conservation orgs for auction too.

And yes, it’s over 500. Every year!

 

[Bux n Dux]

Those are not the reports I’m looking for lefty, and how the money was spent is not the question I asked.

So I’ll ask it again.

Where is the improvement? What is better in big game hunting today than in 2011? How are the deer herds better today than they were then?

That is my question, not a report on dollars.

I’ll wait and see what people can come up with.

*Edit- that link is useful for one thing, however. It tells us how much we’ve handed these groups. SFW and MDF combined for nearly $50 million on the conservation tag program alone!

I’d love to say it’s just the average hunters that have been hosed on this deal, but the quality in utah has tanked all around. These guys paying 100k for trophy elk hunts aren’t killing the 400”+ bulls they were 10 years ago. The extreme upper end bulls for most of the great units now are 370. they’ve managed and conserved themselves right out of their own trophy opportunities. Which I find hilarious and ironic. Everything sucks. Deer, elk, pronghorn, moose, sheep, bison, mtn goat, turkey…. Every species being managed by hunting has crashed. Numbers and quality wise.

When are people going to wake up and see what’s really going on!?

 

[Utahlefty]

I haven't been on the RAC for a while now but I've voted to approve these lists in the past though, so that's a fair criticism you can make of me.

At least the list is transparent and broken down by individual habit project and one can, presumably, go to that spot and assess for one's self whether it was a worthwhile use of funding.

Should we be spending money on these projects?
Is there a different way to raise the money to do so?
Is your position that these projects shouldn't have happened at all?


I agree with you that hunting opportunity hasn't gotten "better" in the timeframe you want to discuss (2011-2023) but Utah's population has also increased by 420,000 in that time. Some of those will be hunters and all of them are housed in what was once winter range. That has to have some negative impact on opportunity.

 

[Bux n Dux]

I agree with you that hunting opportunity hasn't gotten "better" in the timeframe you want to discuss (2011-2023) but Utah's population has also increased by 420,000 in that time. Some of those will be hunters and all of them are housed in what was once winter range. That has to have some negative impact on opportunity.

Ok, but tag cuts and management strategy changes should have at least leveled out the trend during that time frame. Yet it’s still in a steep decline trend. All this conservation money and all these habitat projects we supposedly are getting should help offset the winter range development to some degree. It hasn’t. There’s plenty of winter range available for all wildlife when you get south of Spanish fork. Why aren’t those populations thriving if we want to point fingers so specifically?

I’m sure the muzzleloader scope ban will be what finally turns the table for our wildlife. I can’t wait to see the fruits of our sacrifice in the coming years

 

[Utahlefty]

Yet it’s still in a steep decline trend. All this conservation money and all these habitat projects we supposedly are getting should help offset the winter range development to some degree. It hasn’t. There’s plenty of winter range available for all wildlife when you get south of Spanish fork. Why aren’t those populations thriving if we want to point fingers so specifically?

I don't disagree, but this is true everywhere, not just in Utah.
Have you checked deer and antelope numbers in WY,CO,NV or AZ recently? They've cratered EVERYWHERE.

All the states are taking different approaches and nothing is working. I don't pretend to have an answer for you.

Elk are generally okay but not great. Keep in mind that Utah deliberately dropped the age classes in all but San Juan by popular request to provide more tags but smaller bulls. This is also happening in all the other states too

 

[MrShane]

Maybe all the money went to the ‘F’ of SFW.
In all honesty, I don’t know what SFW does for fish?
Anyone?

 

[Vanilla]

I agree with you that hunting opportunity hasn't gotten "better" in the timeframe you want to discuss (2011-2023) but Utah's population has also increased by 420,000 in that time. Some of those will be hunters and all of them are housed in what was once winter range. That has to have some negative impact on opportunity.

I used that timeline because it is relevant. It’s recent, so we aren’t comparing today to the 1960s. It’s also the year a major management change happened that was shoved down our throats and even the Division’s throat by SFW with a promise to save the mule deer.

So policy makers did what they asked, and have handed them many millions of dollars since. For what? How is it better?

I’m old enough to remember the DWR opposing Option 2 and saying it wasn’t necessary and Don Peay strong arming it showing up to the meeting with his giant ceremonial check. Those were the good old days, huh?

We’ve got lots of promises and sacrificed huge amounts of 100% public resources to give millions of dollars to these people. What have they made better?

 

[grizzly]

Maybe all the money went to the ‘F’ of SFW.
In all honesty, I don’t know what SFW does for fish?
Anyone?

"F" is for "Feasants"

I keep hearing about how they plant feasants for youth hunts so that's gotta be it.

Utah has given more tags and money than every Western state combined to a few choice groups. Is our hunting better than every Western state combined? Any of them?

 

[Silentstalker]

Very few hunters in Utah have any idea about how many tags have been given away or lost to the conservation program and the expo.

I also know that nothing will change unless the proposal is created by a meaningful group that is supported by the DWR.

Unless we showed up on the steps of the capital with 1000’s of people chanting for change this same BS will continue forever.

Money talks and no matter how much the division gets from SFW from these tags, it’s more than they would have without them.

I’m 100% behind an attempt to demand a severe cut in both the conservation tag #’s and Expo tags but it’s going to have to start with a very credible group or it stands zero chance of being successful.

 

[smokepolejohnson]

Peayday had us charge the capital back in the day and he went straight to the back room with Governor Leavitt and started this whole shiiid show unbeknownst to the public. Crazy to think in over 31 years SFW’s membership has grown at no more than 80 members a year on average, most likely much much less than that even, but there membership records like there financials are about as clean as a forgotten oil field Honey Bucket. Congrats to Remi Warren for defying the odds a 3rd time on the expo draw. #Serengeti

 

[Silentstalker]

I remember that day. It was a change to the law that makes it much harder to ban hunting. It was and still is a good thing.

What it “blossomed” into is nothing short of a Peay day for a few and as mentioned - over 5000 tags to the highest bidder.

I think it’s past time we reign it in to a more realistic #. No doubt the funding is needed. But 360+ tags for auction is way too many annually.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Niller!

Roll It Back To 1972!

Ya!

I Know!

The GAME Turned In To $$$ Came Later!

MONEY & GREED!

HERE THE HELL WE ARE!

 

[mtmuley]

Was there really guys walking around in there wearing packs? And gaiters? mtmuley

 

[notdonhunting]

Who the hell is Remi Warren?

 

[grizzly]

Who the hell is Remi Warren?

Let Me Google That

For all those people that find it more convenient to bother you with their question than to google it for themselves.

letmegooglethat.com

 

[El_Matador]

I ran across an old spreadsheet I had put together in 2012. It compared the number of conservation permits given out that year to the number allowed by state law. There were a total of 33 illegal tags given out.

 

[Vanilla]

I ran across an old spreadsheet I had put together in 2012. It compared the number of conservation permits given out that year to the number allowed by state law. There were a total of 33 illegal tags given out.

Shocker! They’ve been doing illegal things for SFW and MDF even through awarding the last expo contract.

 

[Silentstalker]

Was there really guys walking around in there wearing packs? And gaiters? mtmuley

By the dozens…

 

[notdonhunting]

Let Me Google That

For all those people that find it more convenient to bother you with their question than to google it for themselves.

letmegooglethat.com

You have been saving that one.

 

[elkfromabove]

Good luck with getting Monster Muleys members to agree on ANYTHING!!!

UWC--1,000 members who committed to help with projects and donations. I volunteered to be the Southern Region Rep. But shortly after the founding, and after we lost our battles with Option #2 and Statewide Archery, the then leaders couldn't afford to fork out enough of their own money to keep it going and decided to close shop. 4 of us in Southern Utah offered to keep it going and the Board asked me to become President. On May 13, 2015 we renewed our IRS non-profit status. I had no leadership training, but I thought I could do what the church did and just ask for volunteers. WRONG!!!! They wanted to be members, but not officers. We added about 700 to the list and got a few who were willing to help and represent us at the RAC's and Wildlife and Board Meetings, on various committees and manning booths at various shows (NOT EXPO!) Two years or so later, I was the only one doing that!

And then there's the battle with the EXPO tag money. I again attended ALL of the RAC's to make our proposal of 90% to wildlife and 10% to the EXPO Partners. Unfortunately, I told them how much the DWR draw vendor got for the main draws ($3.01) and SFW, MDF and the Wildlife Board used that figure against us, by claiming their draw was the same and they should get the same amount. I tried to tell them that the vendor did a WHOLE LOT MORE for their money, but they just laughed it off as a big joke, (Just like you did! Post 136), and we only got the $1.99 to wildlife and $3.01 to SFW and MDF. That's when the members pretty much gave up on UWC and I ended up paying about $2,000 per year just to keep us a licensed, legal non-profit.

Then when I told them my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and diabetes, I was told by the UWC Board to just take care of her and they would take care of UWC. That never happened and I kept getting notices from the IRS and various state, county and city agencies that UWC owed registration fees and proper tax forms, and since I was their only contact, I was liable for them. So I asked the members to pay annual dues of $30 PER FAMILY and I got about 15 positive (and a few negative) responses. Most of them didn't even bother to open their email. So when my wife lost her battle with cancer, everything became a blur and I decided to shut UWC down.

Easy task, right? It took me 3 years to meet all of the IRS demands and to prove we were still a non-profit and to account for ALL of our assets, our income and hours of service since our founding! I had to GRAMA so much information it would choke a moose, but on 9/10/2020, I closed our MACU account and took a cashier's check ($1,550.71) to the DWR and then on 3/18/2021, I took another cashier's check for items sold ($872.50) and 17 prs of gloves and 23 safety vests to the Southern Region DWR office and a bunch of winter clothing to Deseret Industries. I also closed our UPS box, our PeopleSmart account, I also deleted all our online membership lists and shredded the printed lists and membership applications and event attendance/contest rolls. During this time I also gave away prizes to kids who could (or couldn't) identify animal calls at our booths in varous shows. I've still got some UWC stuff around the house, which I won't part with, but I paid fair price for it in the $872.50 check.

I'm only telling you all of this so you know what you're in for if you decide to "organize". If all you want to do is yell from the Capitol steps one time, then have at it. But if you want to do more than that, you'll really find out what it's like to fight a big financed, powerful, connected adversary. It can be done but it takes much more than 2 or 3 hundred online posters who can't even get along with each other, let alone organize. You'd have my moral and online support, but at this point I couldn't even safely sit on those steps, let alone stand and yell!

 

[Silentstalker]

Good luck with getting Monster Muleys members to agree on ANYTHING!!!

UWC--1,000 members who committed to help with projects and donations. I volunteered to be the Southern Region Rep. But shortly after the founding, and after we lost our battles with Option #2 and Statewide Archery, the then leaders couldn't afford to fork out enough of their own money to keep it going and decided to close shop. 4 of us in Southern Utah offered to keep it going and the Board asked me to become President. On May 13, 2015 we renewed our IRS non-profit status. I had no leadership training, but I thought I could do what the church did and just ask for volunteers. WRONG!!!! They wanted to be members, but not officers. We added about 700 to the list and got a few who were willing to help and represent us at the RAC's and Wildlife and Board Meetings, on various committees and manning booths at various shows (NOT EXPO!) Two years or so later, I was the only one doing that!

And then there's the battle with the EXPO tag money. I again attended ALL of the RAC's to make our proposal of 90% to wildlife and 10% to the EXPO Partners. Unfortunately, I told them how much the DWR draw vendor got for the main draws ($3.01) and SFW, MDF and the Wildlife Board used that figure against us, by claiming their draw was the same and they should get the same amount. I tried to tell them that the vendor did a WHOLE LOT MORE for their money, but they just laughed it off as a big joke, (Just like you did! Post 136), and we only got the $1.99 to wildlife and $3.01 to SFW and MDF. That's when the members pretty much gave up on UWC and I ended up paying about $2,000 per year just to keep us a licensed, legal non-profit.

Then when I told them my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and diabetes, I was told by the UWC Board to just take care of her and they would take care of UWC. That never happened and I kept getting notices from the IRS and various state, county and city agencies that UWC owed registration fees and proper tax forms, and since I was their only contact, I was liable for them. So I asked the members to pay annual dues of $30 PER FAMILY and I got about 15 positive (and a few negative) responses. Most of them didn't even bother to open their email. So when my wife lost her battle with cancer, everything became a blur and I decided to shut UWC down.

Easy task, right? It took me 3 years to meet all of the IRS demands and to prove we were still a non-profit and to account for ALL of our assets, our income and hours of service since our founding! I had to GRAMA so much information it would choke a moose, but on 9/10/2020, I closed our MACU account and took a cashier's check ($1,550.71) to the DWR and then on 3/18/2021, I took another cashier's check for items sold ($872.50) and 17 prs of gloves and 23 safety vests to the Southern Region DWR office and a bunch of winter clothing to Deseret Industries. I also closed our UPS box, our PeopleSmart account, I also deleted all our online membership lists and shredded the printed lists and membership applications and event attendance/contest rolls. During this time I also gave away prizes to kids who could (or couldn't) identify animal calls at our booths in varous shows. I've still got some UWC stuff around the house, which I won't part with, but I paid fair price for it in the $872.50 check.

I'm only telling you all of this so you know what you're in for if you decide to "organize". If all you want to do is yell from the Capitol steps one time, then have at it. But if you want to do more than that, you'll really find out what it's like to fight a big financed, powerful, connected adversary. It can be done but it takes much more than 2 or 3 hundred online posters who can't even get along with each other, let alone organize. You'd have my moral and online support, but at this point I couldn't even safely sit on those steps, let alone stand and yell!

Thank you for all you did for us. I wish this was not the very unfortunate truth but I know that it is. I’m sorry for all you went through and wish you the best.
You carried the water for all of us but in the end you ran right into the meat grinder that controls this state.
I wish there was a way to make all of this right but unless someone from within the Division or SFW says enough is enough I have zero faith anything will change.

Im willing to try if anyone has a solid plan.

 

[Bluehair]

Good luck with getting Monster Muleys members to agree on ANYTHING!!!

UWC--1,000 members who committed to help with projects and donations. I volunteered to be the Southern Region Rep. But shortly after the founding, and after we lost our battles with Option #2 and Statewide Archery, the then leaders couldn't afford to fork out enough of their own money to keep it going and decided to close shop. 4 of us in Southern Utah offered to keep it going and the Board asked me to become President. On May 13, 2015 we renewed our IRS non-profit status. I had no leadership training, but I thought I could do what the church did and just ask for volunteers. WRONG!!!! They wanted to be members, but not officers. We added about 700 to the list and got a few who were willing to help and represent us at the RAC's and Wildlife and Board Meetings, on various committees and manning booths at various shows (NOT EXPO!) Two years or so later, I was the only one doing that!

And then there's the battle with the EXPO tag money. I again attended ALL of the RAC's to make our proposal of 90% to wildlife and 10% to the EXPO Partners. Unfortunately, I told them how much the DWR draw vendor got for the main draws ($3.01) and SFW, MDF and the Wildlife Board used that figure against us, by claiming their draw was the same and they should get the same amount. I tried to tell them that the vendor did a WHOLE LOT MORE for their money, but they just laughed it off as a big joke, (Just like you did! Post 136), and we only got the $1.99 to wildlife and $3.01 to SFW and MDF. That's when the members pretty much gave up on UWC and I ended up paying about $2,000 per year just to keep us a licensed, legal non-profit.

Then when I told them my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and diabetes, I was told by the UWC Board to just take care of her and they would take care of UWC. That never happened and I kept getting notices from the IRS and various state, county and city agencies that UWC owed registration fees and proper tax forms, and since I was their only contact, I was liable for them. So I asked the members to pay annual dues of $30 PER FAMILY and I got about 15 positive (and a few negative) responses. Most of them didn't even bother to open their email. So when my wife lost her battle with cancer, everything became a blur and I decided to shut UWC down.

Easy task, right? It took me 3 years to meet all of the IRS demands and to prove we were still a non-profit and to account for ALL of our assets, our income and hours of service since our founding! I had to GRAMA so much information it would choke a moose, but on 9/10/2020, I closed our MACU account and took a cashier's check ($1,550.71) to the DWR and then on 3/18/2021, I took another cashier's check for items sold ($872.50) and 17 prs of gloves and 23 safety vests to the Southern Region DWR office and a bunch of winter clothing to Deseret Industries. I also closed our UPS box, our PeopleSmart account, I also deleted all our online membership lists and shredded the printed lists and membership applications and event attendance/contest rolls. During this time I also gave away prizes to kids who could (or couldn't) identify animal calls at our booths in varous shows. I've still got some UWC stuff around the house, which I won't part with, but I paid fair price for it in the $872.50 check.

I'm only telling you all of this so you know what you're in for if you decide to "organize". If all you want to do is yell from the Capitol steps one time, then have at it. But if you want to do more than that, you'll really find out what it's like to fight a big financed, powerful, connected adversary. It can be done but it takes much more than 2 or 3 hundred online posters who can't even get along with each other, let alone organize. You'd have my moral and online support, but at this point I couldn't even safely sit on those steps, let alone stand and yell!

Wow, flattered to get a footnote. Sorry to hear about your wife.

 

[elkfromabove]

Wow, flattered to get a footnote. Sorry to hear about your wife.

Thanks! We're good to go! Let's get back on track!

 

[El_Matador]

Elkfromabove, your hard work is very much appreciated. I was involved with UWC when it was originally formed, although not as a board member. I attended a lot of meetings, made phone calls, did research, donated money, and generally put forth a considerable effort to affect some kind of change. And while I only invested a small fraction of what you did, I came to the same conclusion and walked away with a similar sense of defeat.

My notes about the illegal conservation tags came from that time when I was involved with UWC. I was friends with a SL County prosecutor in those days, and I asked him to look into the matter. He responded with some puzzlement. He said that when laws are written they almost invariably include provisions for enforcement. For example, "A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor". The prosecutor said there was no enforcement mechanism or consequence built into the law in this situation. So they were clearly breaking the law but nothing could be done about it. 33 tags in that single year were stolen from the citizens of Utah and there were zero consequences.

 

[nontypical]

Good luck with getting Monster Muleys members to agree on ANYTHING!!!

UWC--1,000 members who committed to help with projects and donations. I volunteered to be the Southern Region Rep. But shortly after the founding, and after we lost our battles with Option #2 and Statewide Archery, the then leaders couldn't afford to fork out enough of their own money to keep it going and decided to close shop. 4 of us in Southern Utah offered to keep it going and the Board asked me to become President. On May 13, 2015 we renewed our IRS non-profit status. I had no leadership training, but I thought I could do what the church did and just ask for volunteers. WRONG!!!! They wanted to be members, but not officers. We added about 700 to the list and got a few who were willing to help and represent us at the RAC's and Wildlife and Board Meetings, on various committees and manning booths at various shows (NOT EXPO!) Two years or so later, I was the only one doing that!

And then there's the battle with the EXPO tag money. I again attended ALL of the RAC's to make our proposal of 90% to wildlife and 10% to the EXPO Partners. Unfortunately, I told them how much the DWR draw vendor got for the main draws ($3.01) and SFW, MDF and the Wildlife Board used that figure against us, by claiming their draw was the same and they should get the same amount. I tried to tell them that the vendor did a WHOLE LOT MORE for their money, but they just laughed it off as a big joke, (Just like you did! Post 136), and we only got the $1.99 to wildlife and $3.01 to SFW and MDF. That's when the members pretty much gave up on UWC and I ended up paying about $2,000 per year just to keep us a licensed, legal non-profit.

Then when I told them my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and diabetes, I was told by the UWC Board to just take care of her and they would take care of UWC. That never happened and I kept getting notices from the IRS and various state, county and city agencies that UWC owed registration fees and proper tax forms, and since I was their only contact, I was liable for them. So I asked the members to pay annual dues of $30 PER FAMILY and I got about 15 positive (and a few negative) responses. Most of them didn't even bother to open their email. So when my wife lost her battle with cancer, everything became a blur and I decided to shut UWC down.

Easy task, right? It took me 3 years to meet all of the IRS demands and to prove we were still a non-profit and to account for ALL of our assets, our income and hours of service since our founding! I had to GRAMA so much information it would choke a moose, but on 9/10/2020, I closed our MACU account and took a cashier's check ($1,550.71) to the DWR and then on 3/18/2021, I took another cashier's check for items sold ($872.50) and 17 prs of gloves and 23 safety vests to the Southern Region DWR office and a bunch of winter clothing to Deseret Industries. I also closed our UPS box, our PeopleSmart account, I also deleted all our online membership lists and shredded the printed lists and membership applications and event attendance/contest rolls. During this time I also gave away prizes to kids who could (or couldn't) identify animal calls at our booths in varous shows. I've still got some UWC stuff around the house, which I won't part with, but I paid fair price for it in the $872.50 check.

I'm only telling you all of this so you know what you're in for if you decide to "organize". If all you want to do is yell from the Capitol steps one time, then have at it. But if you want to do more than that, you'll really find out what it's like to fight a big financed, powerful, connected adversary. It can be done but it takes much more than 2 or 3 hundred online posters who can't even get along with each other, let alone organize. You'd have my moral and online support, but at this point I couldn't even safely sit on those steps, let alone stand and yell!

This post pretty much sums up why hunting is doomed. NO ONE CARES UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE.

No one will take the time to write a legislator. They're all busy writing a dissertation on point creep or wolves on Monster Muleys.

In the SAME AMOUNT OF TIME, one could actually write to a legislator, where it might actually have a meaningful effect.

 

[SS!]

This post pretty much sums up why hunting is doomed. NO ONE CARES UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE.

No one will take the time to write a legislator. They're all busy writing a dissertation on point creep or wolves on Monster Muleys.

In the SAME AMOUNT OF TIME, one could actually write to a legislator, where it might actually have a meaningful effect.

 

[elkfromabove]

Thank you for all you did for us. I wish this was not the very unfortunate truth but I know that it is. I’m sorry for all you went through and wish you the best.
You carried the water for all of us but in the end you ran right into the meat grinder that controls this state.
I wish there was a way to make all of this right but unless someone from within the Division or SFW says enough is enough I have zero faith anything will change.

Im willing to try if anyone has a solid plan.

And I'm willing to help you organize per: IRS, Utah Dept of Commerce, Utah State Tax Commission, GoDaddy (for website domains), County and City licenses, Mountain America Credit Union for free services for non-profit organizations, DWR for RAC and Wildlife Board agenda items and on mailing lists for committee appointments and schedules of service projects and meetings. I even asked if I could attend the new RAC & Wildlife Board member training meetings as an observer and was told I was the first public person that anyone remembered ever asking. I got a resounding YES and I even got an applause when I introduced myself at the meetings. In any case, there's much more to organizing than I ever thought there would be and luckily, I kept all that paperwork just so the IRS couldn't come back with an audit later. Let me know if you need my help. You'll have a consultant you won't have to pay.

Edited: Of course you don't have to use UWC as your name! Just get some commitments and/or call a meeting and ORGANIZE!

 

[270Whatelse]

View attachment 137432

Omfg about spit out my coffee! Made my day!

 

[joesikora]

hunting fool keeps a state by state tally on conservation tags here:

Governor, Commissioner, Statewide, Raffle, & Conservation Tags & Permits - 2023 | Huntin' Fool

Governor, Commissioner, and Conservation Tags are another way you can buy a permit for some of the very best units in most states out west.

www.huntinfool.com

Utah - 362 tags
All the rest of North America - 340 tags

we're winning, right ??

Thanks for posting Utahlefty, I think I can still buy tickets for the AK hunts

 

[Wes]

Why are they excluded from audit is the question everyone should be asking.
Wes

 

[elkfromabove]

Why are they excluded from audit is the question everyone should be asking.
Wes

What kind of audit are you referring to?

 

[Wes]

What kind of audit are you referring to?

Where the money is going

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

No I’m not related to that goober I just wanna see Utah give him the middle finger back. Both Wyoming and Idaho think it’s quite comical in raising prices. So I feel we should one up them and make our limited entry tags $4,500.00 for non residents. Wyoming is going to have a point system before long. Those gravy GS days will come to an end.

I'm fine to give Buzz the middle finger, but we need to keep the non-residents coming, and they need to keep us coming. We can't limit NRs even more. They play an important role. Plus many of us love hunting all around the West, not just our home state.

 

[Vanilla]

Plus many of us love hunting all around the West, not just our home state.

They sure aren’t making it easier on us to do that, though.

It seems there is a big race around the west to see who can screw nonresidents the most that Utah is very late joining. But it’s coming.

 

[SS!]

I'm fine to give Buzz the middle finger, but we need to keep the non-residents coming, and they need to keep us coming. We can't limit NRs even more. They play an important role. Plus many of us love hunting all around the West, not just our home state.

Lot of coming happening.