New Deer units??

Buckjiggin · Oct 23, 2012

So I know the hunt is still going, but since it is over for me I thought I would start a new topic. I was curious to see how the new units would work out. The unit I hunted was great. I would give the DNR an A+ for the new regions. I only saw two other hunters on the Muzzy, and the rifle was much less congested. I have high hopes for this area of the state in the next few years.

What has others experience been?

huntinguy · Oct 23, 2012

Pine Valley unit pretty much the same this year as the last several. Lots of people camped in large groups in the exact same spots. Probably all dont have tags but just came along for the ride. Either way pressure is the same. I really do hope the reduction of regions into units helps bring some older age class bucks and an increase in overall herd numbers. I dont know why it took so long to implement.

_gloomis · Oct 23, 2012

I agree with you BuckJiggin. The area I hunted usually gets hit really hard during the general rifle hunt. This year there seemed to be 50% less hunters.

If this trend continues I would be very pleased with the new unit format.

O_S_O_K · Oct 23, 2012

I disagree!

I took my boy up to the North Cache unit expecting to see similar results as you guys but I saw more orange on that mountain than I have seen in the last 3 years hunting it.

I think this may be the unit all the leftovers went to or something.

More pressure than ever. We saw 7 small 2 points (good to see so many smaller bucks and hopefully they make it through the winter) and only one decent buck (bad news). In the past the ratio was much more even on the deer we were seeing.

That was my experience for what it's worth

"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

pauns08 · Oct 23, 2012

I think the new units is a good idea if they would cut the tags in all of the units, they are still giving way to many tags in most of the 30 units. But thats the dnr it took them this long to realize that splitting up the five regions into 30 different units was a great idea but what they didnt realize is you cant give the same amount of tags or they are not doing a bit of good. But they are to worried about money rather than herd management, he dnr got the first step in making the 30 units but now they need to cut tags, one day hopefully they will figure it out. It sure takes the dnr a long time to pull there heads out of there a$$es

rraney · Oct 23, 2012

There were way more hunters in the pine valley muzzy hunt this year than we have ever seen. Dont know why like said before maybe lots of helpers but we have never seen it like this

UtahMountainMan · Oct 23, 2012

What unit did you hunt?

>So I know the hunt is
>still going, but since it
>is over for me I
>thought I would start a
>new topic. I was
>curious to see how the
>new units would work out.
> The unit I hunted
>was great. I would
>give the DNR an A+
>for the new regions.
>I only saw two other
>hunters on the Muzzy, and
>the rifle was much less
>congested. I have high
>hopes for this area of
>the state in the next
>few years.
>
>What has others experience been?

"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"

Foxskinner · Oct 23, 2012

I hunted archery and we chased a few decent deer and saw lots of forkies and had hardly any pressure but we were 3-4 miles from the main roads. I have never hunted the unit before so I can't compare but I liked being able to at least see better bucks that we could chase.

I hunted with my dad on the muzzy hunt and the amount of people was insane compared to other years. Luckily they all mostly road hunted and we ended up seeing 13 bucks the 1st day (all yearlings) and 9 bucks the second day while hiking and 13 bucks in one canyon on the third day of which we took the biggest one. We were 2 miles from the road and only saw 2 hunters all day. It is hard to say, there were lots more hunters than we were used too and they cleared the roads of spikes and two points pretty quick but we hiked a couple miles and harvested a good buck.

I am hunting the rifle tag right now with my wife and we saw a couple small bucks that we knew were around and haven't seen more than 10 deer in a day. We are putting the miles on too even though she is almost 7 months pregnant and it is disappointing. There are lots of hunters in our area too and we are usually able to do these hikes and get into better bucks but nothing so far. There were several shots opening morning coming from below along the highway in the main canyon but that night we only heard 5 shots total. I can't really give an accurate judgment on this unit yet but it looks like there are twice as many hunters as bucks being seen and nothing mature.

My opinion is that there are still too many tags in some units. That is great to hear that some units are looking optimistic but not all of them. The DNR has a money issue and that is that they love money. It seems that they have to sell every tag and collect every dollar possible. Why else would they turn 1400 unsold archery and muzzy tags into rifle tags. It wasn't to help the deer herd.... If they were that desperate to sell the tags, why don't they do like Idaho and allow a resident to buy a second deer tag at NON-Resident price. That way they get more money, they sell the quotas they want with the weapons and seasons the unit is managed for and then everyone is happy. I think that they can be headed in the right direction with the unit thing but there is still way more to do and I am not sure if they will do it or how long it will take to do it.......

www.biggamedrawodds.com

soutahhunter · Oct 24, 2012

I agree pauns08

It does not help to just break up into smaller units and spread the same amount of tags over all units, to come up with the same total. I thought the purpose was to look at each unit and reduce or add tags to the unit as needed. i don't think they did this with every hunter on here say their unit is down in deer numbers how could they not be reducing tags by several thousand.

Buckjiggin · Oct 24, 2012

I was in the Beaver area. It is a big unit, so I am thinking all the tags were spread out a bit.

muleyskinwatcher · Oct 24, 2012

Very good point, also I was informed the unsold archery and muzzy tags got rolled over and sold OTC for rifle permits, how does that help deer herds when rifle success rate is higher? I agree they need to reduce permits, , Well one way the state could meet there greedy quota would be to sell an ambundance of permits in a unit that is mostly private property lets say like unit 3,4,5 oh wait they already did that!

GLEDEASY · Oct 24, 2012

It seemed like there were less hunters in my unit this year in comparison to others during the rifle hunt. This could be because more people are switching/trying black powder and archery hunting, who knows. I also observed fewer numbers of deer.

I like the breakdown of the units even though it was nice not being limited to a smaller area in the past. I think it's going to give more oportunity for obtaining a tag, which I like.

dillon · Oct 25, 2012

I was on the Zion unit with family. I don't normally hunt the rifle hunt, but I tagged along this year. I would say it was about the same as it was the last time I was on the unit during the rifle hunt. The deer were mostly lower toward the Arizona line so there were a lot of hunters down there, but up higher it was less than normal.

I agree that they need to adjust the number of tags on all the units. In wildlife management they call it, "adaptive management."

Twopointdn · Oct 25, 2012

I have never seen so many hunter in my life. I took my 13 year old girl out on the opening day of the rifle hunt in unit 4,5,6. This was a unit that they sold over 400 unsold muzzle and archery tag as leftover rifle tags. It was my girls first choice in the drew and she was excited to drew her tag. I'm not very happy with the decision that the dwr made to put more then the quota of rifle tags in the unit. This unit has very little public land in comparison to the size of the unit and i would bet the majority of the additional tag sold end up on the public land. I sent a email to the dwr prior to the hunt, voicing my concerns and my concerns play out to be very accurate after seeing what happened Saturday. In the units that are largely made up of private land, i believe they sould have a system like Colorado where they have private land tags and public land tag. I beleive this is the only way to manage units that are similar to 4,5,6. This way the public land does not get over crowded and will give the deer a chance. Side note, i never received a responce to my email. Where i work i am expected to respond to the customer no matter the situation.

goatroper · Oct 25, 2012

it was like Bay area COMMUTE..TONS OF ROAD HUNTERS..the yearlings never had a chance.. we got two 4 pointers yesterday morning and never saw another hunter..they all split during the week but man oh man the unit was stacked during the opener..and the beer bottle and cans ...what a sad sight!I never seen so many people...lots of traffic! made it easy to walk around off the roads because the deer heard a quad and stepped back into cover and waited for them to pass..horns were'nt a crap this year!

DEADicated · Oct 26, 2012

I agree with your sentiment on 4,5,6. I've never seen so many people either, both during the muzzleloader and rifle hunts. And we were on private property! Our property borders a CWMU and 3 other properties. We were educating trespassers non-stop, including those we saw cross the fence to the CWMU. They all claimed they had no idea it is a CWMU or private property. And yes, our property and the CWMU are well marked.

elkhunter33 · Oct 26, 2012

I think some of the private property owners need to lighten up , if there not hunting by your cabin , who cares if the are hunting the land , as long as its not one of those joke of a hunts called a cwmu , yes i said it they are a joke and overrated . i have property down in the manti unit and could care less if people hunt it as long as they stay away from my cabin .

DEADicated · Oct 26, 2012

Welcome to the forum elkhunter33.

You are probably right, we shouldn't complain about people hunting on our property. But we do complain if they don't get permission. If they ask nicely, and give us permission to hunt on their property, we are more than happy to grant reciprocal access on days that we are not hunting on our property. We have 20 acre lots up there, and we, along with several of the other lot owners, have banded together so we have 100 acres to hunt on. It gets crowded when the trespassers feel entitled to walk, or worse, drive their 4 wheelers, right past our posted signs.

I don't disagree with you on the CWMU status, and after re-reading my original post, I find it interesting that you jumped my case about the CWMUs. I didn't defend the CWMU program or say anything nice about them. But I do think they have a right to expect people to not trespass on their private property. I probably shouldn't say anything to the miscreants that trespass on it, but they have to cross our posted properties to cross the CWMU's posted boundary.

Finally, kudos to you for allowing people to trespass on your property. Then again, it isn't trespassing if it isn't posted, right?

elkhunter33 · Oct 26, 2012

You are right it is not trespassing if its not posted , and you are also correct in that I dont post it because I realy dont care if people hunt my land or not , I just feel like we should give everybody the chance to hunt and get a nice animal and most people dont have the money to pay the ridiculous amounts of money that most land owners want for the right to hunt and trespass . I applaued you for letting people hunt your land if they ask , i only wish more land owners could be as nice as it sounds like you are , i also wish there could be more like me that just dont care if people hunt the land or not .

never_catch · Oct 26, 2012

People will continue to complain regardless what the DWR chooses to do...

I was able to hunt all 3 seasons this year and saw a lot less hunters on all 3 hunts compared to years past. Most were road running so some I didn't actually see but I could hear wheelers and side by sides running up and down the mountain in the mornings and evenings, years past it's been all day long...

I saw and passed quite a few 130-160" 4x4's and 4x5's hoping to find something better but never really did. Good news is on the rifle hunt I saw 4 different 150+ 4x4's or bigger evade hunters so hopefully they'll make it thru the winter and be something worth putting an arrow in next August. I only saw 1 160" buck die on the rifle hunt and luckily he had the worst genetics so I was glad to see him taken off the mountain.

30 units is the best thing the DWR has done in several decades for our deer herd, period...

Unit 4/5/6 (Chalk Creek).

~Z~

travishunter3006 · Oct 31, 2012

The one thing I didn't like with all the new Units and Regs.... I dislike the tag rollover from archery to muzzle loader to any weapon.

Seems like the original tag quotas are made based on the average bucks being killed with every hunt and how those ratios correspond with what the unit can sustain.

If the rifle tags sold out and there are 300 archery tags that eventually convert to rifle tags then a fwe more "unplanned" deer are going to be killed. not to mention make the hutns a little more shoulder-to-shoulder.

I think in a few years we are really going to see the benefit of the 30 units.

Zeke · Nov 1, 2012

I wish I had all the answers. With that said, I have a few suggestions for the F&G.

If they sell left-over tags they should reduce the number and increase the price. There always seems to be a lot of demand.

They should NEVER sell archery tags and convert them to rifle tags. No matter who you are this practice seems counter productive, at best, and devastating at worst.

We all want more tags for a cheaper price but the reality is we should have fewer tags which cost a bit more. I'm not suggesting we make all the units into LE but we do need to protect the herds and still promote hunting.

I like the smaller units but I think it's just one step in the right direction.

Zeke

jr8fish · Nov 1, 2012

Last year my dad and I had the central tag and we hunted in diamond fork near strawberry ridge. We saw quite a few road doggers and atver's but the number of hunters was manageable. Once we got off the roads and back into the bush several miles in we only saw one other group of two. We covered lots of ground and didn't see anybody else. Anyway, we drew the Wasatch West tag this year and hunted the exact same area. My dad and I went to the exact same spots several miles from any road and saw many hunters this year. Guys on horseback, guys packing in, guys everywhere. It seemed all the awesome places that I had scouted and hunted last year had a group of hunters in it. And this was the second weekend! I cant even imagine how bad the opener would have been. Honestly my dad and I would just be getting to our "spot" when we'ed round the corner and see a group of hunters on the adjacent hill side or up on the ridge or right in the damn spot that we were trying to get to. I am not frustrated at the other groups of hunters... They had as much right to be there as I did. I am however, very frustrated at the DWR for issuing 7500 permits for that relatively small unit. Sure the area is big geographically but about half the unit is unhuntable (being in Salt Lake county)for rifle hunters. The only other unit that issued more permits was the central mountain manti/san rafael unit and this unit is freakin huge. Probably the biggest in the state. Anyway, my gripe is that the Wasatch west unit can not accommodate near that many hunters IMHO. To make things worse it seemed a large majority of 7500 tag holders hunted near diamond fork. Anybody else experience this in Wasatch West?

travishunter3006 · Nov 2, 2012

Not looking to start an argument with you here but there were only 4500 Any Weapon tags issued. 1500 archery and 1500 muzzy tags were issued as well. Very crowded unit non-the-less. Hope you can wack a nice buck next year!

"Sure the area is big geographically but about half the unit is unhuntable (being in Salt Lake county)for rifle hunters"

That is a stretch... see picture below

jr8fish · Nov 2, 2012

Yea you are right... That is not half is it. Once you see it on the map, it is smaller than what I thought. Regardless, it is a large chunk... probably 1/4th. As I said there were 7500 permits sold for the area. 4500+1500+1500=7500.... That still seems like way too many permits to me. I am simply saying that this year I saw WAY WAY more hunters in the area I generally hunt compared to years past. I talked to a couple hunters in the field that agreed with me that they had never seen such high hunter densities. We were many miles in and saw many groups hunting. You could here hordes of trucks and bikes in the distance as well. I am just afraid for the unit if they keep issuing 7500 permits especially 4500 rifle permits.... The rifle hunt always has higher success. The utah deer population will continue to dwindle if they dont cut tags.

Foxskinner · Nov 5, 2012

How do you know that there weren't that many hunters hunting that unit last year and the year before?

I just had this thought while reading the last few posts. The DWR calls hunters and gets a post-hunt survey from them. Do they do this to everyone or just a random sampling? Anyway, they usually ask you if you were successful, how big it was and the general area you were hunting. If they do this with everyone, then they should have had an idea of how many hunters are hunting a general unit anyway. This could have gone into their decision making process when issuing tags for a unit and each weapon. Maybe there were 4500 rifle hunters generally hunting in the Wasatch West unit over the last few years. However, maybe different people drew the tags this year and decided to hunt in the same area as you this year. Theoretically, they would have issued the same amount of tags as usual and it would have had the same general affect on the deer herd.

This is just a thought. I don't know how they determine the amounts of tags for each unit or the amount per weapon season for each unit. I would hope that they use some of the survey information as a guide to understand the capacity ability of a unit. We will probably never know and like others have said, they will never be able to satisfy everyone.

www.biggamedrawodds.com

travishunter3006 · Nov 6, 2012

I have received that survey call every year since I was 14. But i don't think they call everyone just a certain %. though to get close to semi-accurate info the sample group needs to be large enough to do so.

I wasn't trying to be a D*ck with the map though that's probably how I came across. I was looking at that map and the map of the area I hunt and wondered if there was any where that nobody else hunts. One of the things I like to do it start on Google Earth by finding areas atleast one mile from a road. Next I like to hunt areas that don't have names (and I am probably way off but I think if it doesn't have a name then its not extrememly popluar or enough so to get hunted alot? But IDK)

It sucks when your hunt doesn't go the way you planned but I wish you luck next year.

muleyskinwatcher · Nov 6, 2012

Only time will tell, but for now I think your right, way to many rifle permits for that area, needs more preditor control. Last I read, rocky mountain big horn population was decreasing up provo and timp? but hey lets keep transporting more sheep to feed those hungry lions.

wuffie · Nov 6, 2012

haha some of you guys crack me up! Unit hunting was NEVER intended to help the herds for crying out loud, it was to manage the hunters! This was the first year and already complaints, lmao. Me and hubby hunted a central unit with lots of hunters, good on them for getting a tag! We still managed to find many areas away from most cause that's how we like to hunt. Cut more tags! Cut more tags! Cut more tags! Let ME hunt by myself. wussies ;-)

jr8fish · Nov 6, 2012

Oh what the helll lets all take wuffie's point of view.... More tags! More tags! More tags! Lets give a tag to everyone who puts in this next year... Better yet, lets sell an infinite number of over the counter tags as well.... Lets get rid of these damn pests called mule deer. Its good for everyone to get tags, good on them for getting tags... right? , that way we can decimate the entire Utah mule deer herd once and for all.

WOW... YOU crack me up.... its not about hunting by oneself, its about conservation and preserving a precious resource for the future and future generations. Surely you can see that.... Then again maybe not.