New Mexico Bait and Switch

upmuley

upmuley

Active Member
Messages
418
Has anyone tried filing a chargeback with their credit card company for their applications for NM Sheep or Oryx? I am probably going to do it today. I am a merchant and if I did offered one thing, took someone's money then changed the agreement after the fact I would need to IMMEDIATELY refund the money (and probably get my hands slapped for such a poor, misleading business practice). This falls under "service/merchandise not as advertised/material misrepresentation by buyer. I encourage each and everyone of you to call your credit card company and dispute the charges based on this contractual principal. Changing the rules after the draw = weak. Then telling people they are holding their money until after the draw after changing the rules = fraud. Please share how it works out for you.

These chargebacks will cost the state money and cause some grief. It is our one and only recourse as I see it. Good luck.
 
Or you could wait and see if you draw...and if not get a full refund anyways. I put a lot of money upfront every year knowing I'm not guaranteed a tag.
 
Yes, you could. But since this is a material change to an existing contract you SHOULD be given the option for an immediate refund since the contract was unilaterally changed.

Shame on New Mexico. I have no problem with the change slanting the odds to residents. I get the reasoning for it. But changing the rules AFTER taking non-residents money is pretty weak to say the least.

I have traveled to New Mexico on 5 occasions and each time have left $5-7,000 behind for the economy. Those days have passed.
 
Good cause we don,t need you here anyway. In case you haven't bothered to read the other 9 million posts across the internet. The game and fish dept was court ordered to implement the changes so its not their fault. You can take it up with the federal judge who ordered it.
 
Yeah... easy for you to say to the guy ordered to the back of the bus. Can't wait for the day someone lays a little discrimination love across your backside.
 
Yep
Winner,winner Chicken dinner.
They have already put up a deal to return everyone(NR) money.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-11-14 AT 06:03PM (MST)[p]I normally look forward to the results posting and seeing how excited my fellow residents are about what they drew. I have a feeling that this year there is gonna be a bunch of haters posting about how us residents cheated them out of a sheep tag. Anyway, I look forward to seeing what people on the NM page draw this year.
 
Yeah, 84% of the tags ain't enough. You proud guys want 100%. Why not? Take it all. Thanks for being greedy. We'll look forward to returning the favor someday.

But for now, enjoy your tags. Someday they'll come to take your away your privilege to hunt on Federal land, and then no one... no one... will lift a finger to help... you'll be on your own.

Stop gloating.
 
It is what it is. None of us were figuring on a tag anyways. Less than 1% chance under the ground rules when we put in... Granted, we paid $20 plus interest on $3K thinking there was a not as bad a chance. I'd rather just let it go and see what happens. I don't think they have decided what to do. So there is still hope, pretty much all we were buying anyway....
 
I'll be darn, thought for a minute you guys were talking about Obama's health care Bill, good luck on your draws!
 
It's another motivational speaker. Rallying more support from the few residents Don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on the way out. Too bad there isn't a way to track all the NR that have been enjoying our great hunting and prolific nonresident opportunity through outfitter set asides and landowner permits and have said they aren't coming back because there was a little hick-up in one year's application process. They will be right back buying landowner permits and applying in the outfitter pool.

You only want to spend money on our wildlife resources when you have an immediate payback in the form of a tag. I bet less than .1 % of you even consider leaving your $65 hunting license nonrefundable if you don't draw. God forbid you would put one red cent into the till unless you get something for it concurrently.
 
What states are these folks from? What are our chances and costs to enter the DRAW in your states? And which game do we play there? Points,premium,limited entry,$165 non-refundable lic.,etc...

Sorry,but I can't really feel sorry for them. I was a NR too years back, and enjoyed some great hunts.I invested and moved to a great state(well,nature & good folks wise)now I don't go anywhere else and am happy as a clam!
 
>It's another motivational speaker. Rallying more
>support from the few residents
>Don't let the doorknob hit
>you in the ass on
>the way out. Too bad
>there isn't a way to
>track all the NR that
>have been enjoying our
>great hunting and prolific nonresident
>opportunity through outfitter set asides
>and landowner permits and have
>said they aren't coming back
>because there was a little
>hick-up in one year's application
>process. They will be right
>back buying landowner permits and
>applying in the outfitter pool.
>
>
>You only want to spend money
>on our wildlife resources when
>you have an immediate payback
>in the form of a
>tag. I bet less than
>.1 % of you
>even consider leaving your $65
>hunting license nonrefundable if you
>don't draw. God forbid you
>would put one red cent
>into the till unless you
>get something for it concurrently.
>
Don't speak for me ,I always leave my 65 dollars in their till and happy to do that.
 
Good for you. And I don't mean that sarcastically. You are in the .1%. That's why I put that qualifier in there. My crappy comments are not directed at yo. I hope you draw. You ever need help in NM, contact me.
 
I'm so tired of you NR complaining on this board about YOUR rights in NM... Enough is Enough !!! I have allot of NR friends that I have helped out over the years... they all love NM and take there chances in the draw... if they are LUCKY they get to come to NM and hunt... they respect OUR rules and don't complain. They have a GREAT time and want to come back.

The rest of you just complain about discrimination and not enough of a chance to draw...Well just move to NM and give up your white butt deer and PIGS... And become a New Mexican... Then you can have all the same chances we have.
Jack
 
Cry me a river...

>Has anyone tried filing a chargeback
>with their credit card company
>for their applications for NM
>Sheep or Oryx? I
>am probably going to do
>it today. I am
>a merchant and if I
>did offered one thing, took
>someone's money then changed the
>agreement after the fact I
>would need to IMMEDIATELY refund
>the money (and probably get
>my hands slapped for such
>a poor, misleading business practice).
> This falls under "service/merchandise
>not as advertised/material misrepresentation by
>buyer. I encourage each
>and everyone of you to
>call your credit card company
>and dispute the charges based
>on this contractual principal.
>Changing the rules after the
>draw = weak. Then
>telling people they are holding
>their money until after the
>draw after changing the rules
>= fraud. Please share
>how it works out for
>you.
>
>These chargebacks will cost the state
>money and cause some grief.
> It is our one
>and only recourse as I
>see it. Good luck.
>
 
Cry me a river...

>Yes, you could. But since
>this is a material change
>to an existing contract you
>SHOULD be given the option
>for an immediate refund since
>the contract was unilaterally changed.
>
>
>Shame on New Mexico. I
>have no problem with the
>change slanting the odds to
>residents. I get the
>reasoning for it. But
>changing the rules AFTER taking
>non-residents money is pretty weak
>to say the least.
>
>I have traveled to New Mexico
>on 5 occasions and each
>time have left $5-7,000 behind
>for the economy. Those
>days have passed.
 
"Yeah, 84% of the tags ain't enough. You proud guys want 100%. Why not? Take it all. Thanks for being greedy. We'll look forward to returning the favor someday."

HToad, really you're lowering yourself to that, NM residents have already taken it in the shorts for 37 years what more do you want, as residents of NM we have been discriminated from having a quota on Bighorn Sheep and finally having the quota tipped over on our side for less than a month and all some Non-Res can do is CRY about Bait & Switch...we really know what you guys are Crying about, and that is the loss of Ram Tags...well GET OVER IT!!!

The more you cry about it to Res. the less Non-Res will get help to get some tags in their favor.
 
Elmer, you get the point Sir, you are the example that Res. will fight for to get Non-Res more tags.

I also apply for Sheep, and other tags in most Western states...with the small probability of drawing a tag, I am already out 2G in Nevada just in the last 10 years, 1,500 in AZ, almost 1G in UT, 2G's in ID, all just for the Hope-Chance that I may draw a tag someday!
 
I totally agree that the rule change sucks! I now have to wait even longer to find out if I drew. I tell you what, for all you non-resident hunters I would show how displeased you all are and boycott New Mexico and not apply for five years. The determent of you all not applying will show how important you all are and the game commission will be forced to change there rules to be in your favor! Or you can cry a river, build a bridge and get the hell over it!
 
I think this is a great idea--cancel your purchases, please. It will make you feel better, it will show up all us self-righteous residents, and it will give my NR buddies that stay in for elk & oryx a better chance. We all win...
 
I filed a dispute with the credit card company the same day NMG&F confirmed I had ZERO chance of drawing a desert bighorn tag....and said they were going to keep my money even longer than usual...by delaying the draw. The charge came off my balance the next day.

I was ONLY able to do this because I applied for sheep on a separate application. If you applied for multiple species, and still want to remain in the draws for those species, this is probably not a good option.

Not sure what some of you would have us do? If you sent thou$ands to a merchant and were told after the fact the merchandise was out of stock and will not be back ordered...then told an immediate refund was out of the question and the merchant was actually going to keep your money longer than originally intended...would you honestly allow that to happen without putting up a fight? Seriously?
 
And the list keeps getting longer and longer of people I know to not help.

Elmer, 264........ if there are two tags given to nr, I hope you draw it. Good luck!

Now for the whiners, when your mom changed the"rules" about ice cream after dinner, did you hold your breath and stomp for feet? If so your dad should have whooped your little asses. Maybe we wouldn't have this type of whining, crying and temper tantrum as ADULTS! Good riddance. Babies
 
wihille,

What happened after I submitted my desert bighorn sheep application was "almost" completely out of my control.

The only piece I had any control over...was how to handle my money. Yes, NMG&F said I would receive a full refund for the tag and the application fee....sometime after April 30th. Unfortunately, I applied online witha credit card...so that offer does NOT represent a full refund. After 25 days, interest begins to accrue...which becomes my responsibility. At that point, I'm paying something for nothing...and I take issue with that.

My options were:

- Pay off the card myself before the 25 day grace period ended.
The interest that money is earning in savings is hardly worth considering. But, given the fact New Mexico does not issue refund checks....I end up with a $3,180 credit on my card once the refund is issued....and have to deal with that.

- File a dispute (takes a couple minutes) and get my money back now. Leave the savings account alone. Don't have to pay interest to the credit card company. Don't have to deal with a positive credit on my credit card account.

The choice was obvious. Not sure why any ADULT would find my actions so offensive?
 
I think it's a good idea to do what inarcher did if BHS is a separate charge on your card--I would do something like that myself as long as I didn't put any other draws that I still had miniscule chance of drawing at risk. Seems very sensible.

The draw results can't get here fast enough...
 
>Has anyone tried filing a chargeback
>with their credit card company
>for their applications for NM
>Sheep or Oryx? I
>am probably going to do
>it today. I am
>a merchant and if I
>did offered one thing, took
>someone's money then changed the
>agreement after the fact I
>would need to IMMEDIATELY refund
>the money (and probably get
>my hands slapped for such
>a poor, misleading business practice).
> This falls under "service/merchandise
>not as advertised/material misrepresentation by
>buyer. I encourage each
>and everyone of you to
>call your credit card company
>and dispute the charges based
>on this contractual principal.
>Changing the rules after the
>draw = weak. Then
>telling people they are holding
>their money until after the
>draw after changing the rules
>= fraud. Please share
>how it works out for
>you.
>
>These chargebacks will cost the state
>money and cause some grief.
> It is our one
>and only recourse as I
>see it. Good luck.
>

Well....this guy is the one who got this ball rolling, and has YET to speak about anything else!!! Obviously, he is just "going with the flow" of all the NR's saying its FRAUD....when in reality he/they don't know what FRAUD is if it slapped them in the face!!! I sure wish all these NR's would take their FRAUD cases to court...so we could get even more of their money in court fees!!!! FRAUD HAS TO BE INTENTIONAL!!!! Im sure you can all read, and HAVE read that this is NOT new news!!! It just happened to come to pass at a bad time! Either way, like all the residents have already stated....keep your $$ in your pocket and quit applying here!! Your going to get your money back regardless. These NR's cry like they think they had "good" chances of drawing these HD hunts anyways!?!?! Get real people....
 
>It's another motivational speaker. Rallying more
>support from the few residents
>Don't let the doorknob hit
>you in the ass on
>the way out. Too bad
>there isn't a way to
>track all the NR that
>have been enjoying our
>great hunting and prolific nonresident
>opportunity through outfitter set asides
>and landowner permits and have
>said they aren't coming back
>because there was a little
>hick-up in one year's application
>process. They will be right
>back buying landowner permits and
>applying in the outfitter pool.
>
>
>You only want to spend money
>on our wildlife resources when
>you have an immediate payback
>in the form of a
>tag. I bet less than
>.1 % of you
>even consider leaving your $65
>hunting license nonrefundable if you
>don't draw. God forbid you
>would put one red cent
>into the till unless you
>get something for it concurrently.
>


VERY well said!!!
 
I'm deleting ALL my apps tomorrow, after much thought. I hadn't applied in 4yrs because of the 6 percent screw over. I should have known better. I am now officially DONE with NM. Let nmdfg sell their tags at a much lower price to the residents. They will go up on resident tags significantly and all of those that can't see past their nose today, will start their own whine fest.

And I will be "roflmao"as I travel to Co, ID, Mt, Ak, and eastern, Midwestern states
All on OTC tags.

NMFG and residents will have their reward.

I am done.
 
>I'm deleting ALL my apps tomorrow,
>after much thought. I hadn't
>applied in 4yrs because of
>the 6 percent screw over.
>I should have known better.
>I am now officially DONE
>with NM. Let nmdfg sell
>their tags at a much
>lower price to the residents.
>They will go up on
>resident tags significantly and all
>of those that can't see
>past their nose today, will
>start their own whine fest.
>
>
>And I will be "roflmao"as I
>travel to Co, ID, Mt,
>Ak, and eastern, Midwestern states
>
>All on OTC tags.
>
>NMFG and residents will have their
>reward.
>
>I am done.


You NR's act like you are hurting our state by not applying!! You have NO idea how much revenue our state brings in just from the NR's that put in with an outfitter!!! So you can take your "rotflmao" and stick it in your pee hole!!! You people are absolutely oblivious to the fact that there are TONS of NR's out there, who will pay thousands of dollars to come and hunt here....and while they are here they spend thousands more on gas, food, hotels, sporting goods, etc.......!!!! We lose NOTHING from the typical DIY jackwagons who want to come here and chase our elk, deer, sheep, oryx and ibex!!! Thank you for being done!!!! More tags for us!!!
 
"Typical DIY jackwagons?" I take it you don't apply in any other western state or are you just a selfish, GED-educated hypocrite?
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-14 AT 06:53PM (MST)[p]>"Typical DIY jackwagons?" I take it
>you don't apply in any
>other western state or are
>you just a selfish, GED-educated
>hypocrite?


Ha ha....not sure what education has anything to do with hunting other states, but however you want argue it is good with me!! No, I don't apply in other states...Im pretty content hunting here where I live!! But thank you for being concerned about my education......Mr. "Incredilble"!!
 

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