New Proclamation Up

I'm drooling over those desert tags as we speak....doesn't help that as I was looking over that very page one of my best buddies called to tell me he just got a call from Ovis telling him he won a draw for a stone sheep hunt in B.C....

www.streamflies.com
 
Did I read the General license to be refundable if drawn for a tag but not refundable if unsuccessful???

I am still cranky about the 6% to the blue collar NR hunters, but so is life.
 
I CANT WAIT TILL WE GET THE NEW LICENSE BOOKS SO I CAN GET ON IT AND PUT IN.
 
100% paperless application this year. Results will be out sooner as well. Bug step in the right direction.
 
should be a good odds year.

Full fee up front, make a mistake, get charged the full fee again and no refund till May. I can hear the screaming clear up here.
 
>Did I read the General license
>to be refundable if drawn
>for a tag but not
>refundable if unsuccessful???
>
>I am still cranky about the
>6% to the blue collar
>NR hunters, but so is
>life.

no, if successful an authorization number will be generated automatically and the computer won't issue a refund once that auth number has been generated.
 
I too, am "still cranky" about the 6% to DIY non-residents. Looking at the tag allotments in various unit that I have hunted and want to hunt, the odds are dismal for a DIY hunter. Non-resident DIY tag numbers will range from 0-6. Mostly 1-2 tags per hunt. Not really any chance to draw. The ability to get a refund on the silly general hunting license if unsuccessful is the only positive thing I saw. I will take a wait and see approach to NM hunting. If odds/cost don't improve in the next couple of years I won't be back to hunt which is a shame cause I have loved hunting NM and had plans for many more hunts and scouting trips ($$$ to NM economy). Oh well the residents and outfitters will cover those lost dollars I'm sure.
 
>Since the license fee is refundable
>if unsuccessful, why bother???

They are using your money to make money off of it while it is in their hands. Probably a method to make up for lost income from the NR tags that were cut out
 
I think in the original plan/bill the "Game-hunting" license was to be non-refundable, which would make up for the "lost" NR revenue. My recollection was that the govenor objected because it raised the cost of applying for residents, so the compromise was to make it refundable. Politics.

I also think the 6% NR quota sucks, and I'm a resident. Sorry.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-11 AT 08:02PM (MST)[p]>>Since the license fee is refundable
>>if unsuccessful, why bother???
>
>They are using your money to
>make money off of it
>while it is in their
>hands. Probably a method to
>make up for lost income
>from the NR tags that
>were cut out
_____________________________

Our money gains them nothing from the time we apply until the draw is complete.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-11 AT 06:55PM (MST)[p]Like I mentioned back in the spring, our dear ol' state is on a fast track to becoming the new 'Tardville

Glad to see the Desert FINALLY approved, but the October season designations are simply ludicrous...for quite a few reasons

Yeppers, watch out Utard! There's a new Special Ed in town :)

Good Frikken Grief...

**edit---speaking of 'tarded...WHY the hell does this stupid thing cut in front of people like that??? Paul, Brian, ANYONE?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-11 AT 09:09PM (MST)[p]

I am referring to the Game License only. I have to buy this license that is valid from April1-March31. It is valid a few days after I have to enter the draw, so if I wanted to go hunt April first, then I am legal to do so because I have purchased this license already.

Unless you have specific reference to show me that shows the money I spend on purchasing this license is locked up until after the draw, then I don't buy it. This money will go into the bank with the rest of the general revenue and will gain interest from there. Then they will issue a refund after an individual is unsuccessful. I understand what happens with the money generated from the draw itself. However, it is specifically lined out that you have to purchase this license first.
 
>>>>Since the license fee is refundable
>>>>if unsuccessful, why bother???
>>>
>>>They are using your money to
>>>make money off of it
>>>while it is in their
>>>hands. Probably a method to
>>>make up for lost income
>>>from the NR tags that
>>>were cut out
>>_____________________________
>>
>>Wrong.
>>Check the facts before posting. Our
>>money gains them nothing from
>>the time we apply until
>>the draw is complete.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>I am referring to the Game
>License only. I have to
>buy this license that is
>valid from April1-March31. It is
>valid a few days after
>I have to enter the
>draw, so if I wanted
>to go hunt April first,
>then I am legal
>to do so because I
>have purchased this license already.
>
>
>Unless you have specific reference to
>show me that shows the
>money I spend on purchasing
>this license is locked up
>until after the draw, then
>I don't buy it. This
>money will go into the
>bank with the rest of
>the general revenue and will
>gain interest from there. Then
>they will issue a refund
>after an individual is unsuccessful.
>I understand what happens with
>the money generated from the
>draw itself. However, it is
>specifically lined out that you
>have to purchase this license
>first.
_______________________________________________________

I edited my post after reading it; it sounded too offensive & that wasn't my intent.

I thought you were refering to the draw.
You might be right on the general hunting lisence, I don't know. We all have to buy it. I understand the difference which is I will use mine and won't want a refund where as a nonresident who has no plans of traveling to NM to hunt small game, waterfowl, etc would want a refund. I think that is the reason why our Govenor implemented the refund.

I hope that at least a few nonresidents will come to NM to hunt small game and/or waterfowl because of this. We really do have some great hunting other than big game. A few areas are very good for waterfowl hunting and people travel to other states every year just to hunt birds. I think NM is highly underrated in this category. Yes I know that we'll never compete with Arkansas or some of the Mississippi valley, or Salt Lake area, but we do have far better waterfowling than most people realize.

My position on the new laws are still the same... I never did agree with SB196, although I am glad that residents will be getting a higher % of tags, I feel that the 6% for DIY NR is not a fair amount.

If you haven't read it before, do a search for "Best possible solution" and you'll see what my opinion is on what changes I feel would be best for all of us.


Cheers
 
Smoke and mirrors elkman, they added almost 50,000 worth of non resident sheep hunting opportunities.
 
i cant find where the proclamation says nr, diy hunters are going to 6%. can someone direct me to where that is on their website. still says 10%· not saying it hasnt changed, just dont see it. thanks
 
>i cant find where the proclamation
>says nr, diy hunters are
>going to 6%. can
>someone direct me to where
>that is on their website.
>still says 10%· not saying
>it hasnt changed, just dont
>see it. thanks


Page three, #3 along the left side.
 
16 desert sheep tags.. Awesome and 16X mopre than now.. But still less than 1% with ocer 2000 applicants chasing them... Good odds for desert sheep, and I bet applicant numbers double or more when the hunting services hype them... Still way better than .002% :) Since you will be able to use all yhree choices desert, I think rocky draw odds will get a lot better too...
 
The hunting services won't be hyping much, there needs to be a signed contract with a resident NM Outfitter prior to the application. Most of those services were not Outfitters.
 
Regarding the Res / NR allocations, how does NM handle fractions? Do they round up or round down?

For example: If a unit has 10 tags and 6% go to NR-DIY that would be 0.6 tags. Is there a tag issued or not?

There are several youth elk hunts with 25 tags. 6% would be 1.5, so would they issue 1 or 2 tags?
 
Wondering the same on the non res tags.Just emailed game and fish to see if they will round up or down.This will be very tricky on drawing tags this year for sure.
 
I think I found that on their website before. Seems like they don't round up or down and that it has to be a whole number. Don't remember where I found it...

0.6 = 0
1.5 = 1
2.1 = 2 etc.

Don't hold me to that however since I have CRS syndrom! :)
 
I don't see any requirement to have a contract with an outfitter for sheep or ibex... or to get in the 6% nonresident ungioded deer pool.
 
ElmerFudd

The sheep, oryx, and ibex tags don't have res vs. non-res quotas. The drawing is held from one pool. Therefor you don't need a contract. From the bottom of page #5 in the regs:

Hunts Not Affected By The Quota Include:
Over-the-counter licenses for elk, bear, turkey, cougar, Barbary
sheep and off Florida Mountain hunt for ibex (IBX-1-528; elk
and pronghorn antelope licenses obtained via private land
authorizations; private land deer licenses; private land deer draw
licenses in Units 2A, 2B, 2C, 4 and 5A; draw licenses for oryx,
ibex and bighorn sheep; and population management hunts.
 
Another change is the outfitter pool now includes residents. Which could affect the NR chances further. Page 17 Second paragraph.

MBBGH
 
I may have found the answer to my question earlier about rounding. I looked at some drawing results from last year. I found some units with only 3, 4, or 5 tags available. In those units they issued 1 tag to a non-resident (either guided or non--guided) so they must round up. I also noticed that if there were no guided applicants for a hunt, then they issued those tags to the DIY N-R pool.
 
I hate to keep stirring the pot here, but is there a map somewhere that shows the new sheep unit boundries? As a N-R I'm not familiar with some of these new areas. They used to include a map in the regs.

Wow - lots of new stuff. I have looked through it 4 times now and keep finding new items each time.
 
>Another change is the outfitter pool
>now includes residents. Which
>could affect the NR chances
>further. Page 17 Second paragraph.
>
>
>MBBGH

_________________________________________

This seems like a plausible concept, however I doubt that there are more than a handful of hunt codes where the Guided pool would have better odds for residents than the regular pool for residents does. They only way that would happen is on a hunt that not very many people would want anyway.
 
Not a simple answer given but they do round up.With residents being able to be in the guide pool now it is not simple to figure out.I was told all depends on were you are in line to draw for that unit.I think i understand as rhonda did her best to help me understand.I will be trying to draw tags for my son and self and just cross my fingers.I was given this number to call for the info.505 476 8087
 
So do I understand right that the fee and full tag price will be charged as soon as you apply? Or will it be the same as last year that the fee will be charged when you apply but full tag price will be charged after the draw deadline?

Jeff
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-11 AT 08:30PM (MST)[p]SD,

The new Desert Units should present no problem logistically, as the respective mountains described per unit are all isolated ranges (non-contiguous with other ranges), similar in principle to the existing Florida Mtns hunt area for Ibex

The Hatchets are the only NEW unit divided by a primary road (Hwy. 81, Littles to the North/ Big Hatchets to South)

I don't know whether the Animas and Alamo Huecos would be legal ground for the Unit 26 hunts, but until our dear ol' G&F Dept. specifies that they ARE, I would speculate that they would not be...also don't know about the legality of hunting any little hills that are outlying of any specified range proper within a respective hunt unit...you might try the number Bill C provided and ask to speak with our Dept's 'brilliant' Bighorn biologists, Eric Rominger or Elise Goldstien

Cheers and Good Luck
 
Full fee when you apply, no refunds til may. No edits to the application, withdraw only. Re apply, full fee again.
 
so can someone explain to me why the guide nr get more tags? or better yet why the heck there is a guided pool????????? if a nr wants a guide they can hire them there self. why not just x the guides out of the pools? this is the reason i likely wont apply for nm next year. i dont care the res get more tags, but to kick nr of wma's and give the guides more tags i just dont feel welcome in NM and i honestly hope it screws the nmdfg. and everyone that voted for it. what a joke. i know when me and my hunting party went to new mexico we put alot of money into your state. and that is just 4 guys not to mention all the other groups not allowed in anymore.

like i said great the res get more tags but please help me understand the guided BS
 
>Should be a good year with
>lots of good odds for
>residents.


sorry but resident odds wont go up that much basically guided will go up and NR just get screwed your not adding that many more to your res pool.
 
>>Should be a good year with
>>lots of good odds for
>>residents.
>
>
>sorry but resident odds wont go
>up that much basically guided
>will go up and NR
>just get screwed your not
>adding that many more to
>your res pool.

Actually all hunts combined are in the thousands of extra tags available to our states families. OF subsidies are robing NRs. I am part of a NM org that tryed to fight to get 16% of tags available to ALL NRs. There is a strong cartel that came into power during the late 90s when they learned alot of money could be had from the cocaine, I mean the bull tags. They have been sreaming bloody murder for tags for several years not and the LO/OF joined as one cartel. They are getting heat as we are growing every year. There are couple of orgs fighting the battle. The cartel fought to rape the NRs while the bill was being drafted. How they sleep at night knowing they have 10% and you have 6 is well, the problem. Most of the states hunters does not believe in welfare subsidies.
 
>>>Should be a good year with
>>>lots of good odds for
>>>residents.
>>
>>
>>sorry but resident odds wont go
>>up that much basically guided
>>will go up and NR
>>just get screwed your not
>>adding that many more to
>>your res pool.
>
>Actually all hunts combined are in
>the thousands of extra tags
>available to our states families.
>OF subsidies are robing NRs.
>I am part of a
>NM org that tryed to
>fight to get 16% of
>tags available to ALL NRs.
>There is a strong cartel
>that came into power during
>the late 90s when they
>learned alot of money could
>be had from the cocaine,
>I mean the bull tags.
>They have been sreaming bloody
>murder for tags for several
>years not and the LO/OF
>joined as one cartel. They
>are getting heat as we
>are growing every year. There
>are couple of orgs fighting
>the battle. The cartel fought
>to rape the NRs while
>the bill was being drafted.
>How they sleep at night
>knowing they have 10% and
>you have 6 is well,
>the problem. Most of the
>states hunters does not believe
>in welfare subsidies.

________________________________________

Stirring the pot...

Come on guys, get your facts straight!

Resident odds DID NOT go up enough to hardly measure. Anyone with a brain & a desire to calculate the difference on their own can see that.

Guided NR odds will not go up either. GNR tag allocation went from 12% to 10% and I expect them to get more applicants with the new rules, therefore their odds go down as well no matter what.

Not one of the hunts I put in for will change enough to help me draw 1 more tag in my lifetime. That's why I was opposed to SB196 in the first place, not to mention all the other things that are just wrong with this.

Other than getting rid of the paper apps, getting draw results sooner, and paying full fees up front, this whole thing was a bad joke in my opinion.

I expect NM land owner tag prices to skyrocket due to this, plus with the OTC tags in Colorado it will become even more of a zoo with the added hunting pressure.

Let me know if I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-11 AT 03:13PM (MST)[p]2010-2011 draw odds

NR have not been getting 22% of the deer & elk tags. See below.

20,184 total elk tags drawn
683 total cow tags drawn by NR & GNR combined

15,095 MB or ES Elk tags total.
Old NR allocation - 22% = 3,320 possible tags
New NR allocation - 16% = 2,415 possible tags

Total elk tags added to resident pool with new rules is 683 + 805 = 1488

Elk:
20,184 total elk tags drawn as follows:
16,400 resident = 80.7%
2,404 NR drawn = 11.8%
1,506 GNR drawn = 7.4%

That's 530 elk tags that NR didn't draw that they theoretically could have at 22%!

Deer:

32,547 total tags drawn as follows:
29,052 resident = 89.26%
3,220 NR drawn = 9.89%
557 GRN drawn = 1.71%

Non residents only got 11.6% TOTAL of the deer tags! Nowhere near their 22% possible!!

People who are supporters of these new rules are claiming theoretical data as fact when the facts & real data say otherwise!

so you see... the BS story that Residents are getting "thousands" more tags is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

Any resident that thinks they will draw tags more often are sadly misled. I know some residents don't know any better because they are only listening to what someone else is telling them & they beleive them rather than looking for themselves.
So be it. Maybey in a few years after they still don't draw a tag they'll figure it out.
On the flip side there will be a few residents who haven't draw tags in several years that will (just by the luck of the draw) get tags this coming year and they will think that it was all because of SB196. Sad thing is they will be wrong!


SB196 just isn't all it's hyped up to be. Just wait & you'll see.
 
If you want to accuse people of not having a brain and stirring the pot, that is your call. When you make a statement about "facts" be prepared to be called on it. Lets make this simple for starters. What did I say that is not a fact? Specifically?

Let me answer your question about GNR. Most sportsmen/americans believe in the letting the free market determine demand for services. All of these senarios of what will happen to LO tag prices, Colorado OTC would not be a issue if it were 16% tags available to all NRs and let the free market rule. You do know that is a fact?
 
Bullbreath,
Anytime someone shares their view (no matter which side of the fence) it will stir the pot so to speak because there will always be people with a different take on things.

You said "thousands more tags to resident families".

What does "thousands" mean? Exactly how many more tags is that?

What is the increase in drawing odds that these thousands of tags create for the resident hunter?

The info I shared proves that NR didn't really draw the 22% that they had allocated for all these years. Not even close. So changing the NR allocation from 22% to 16% total doesn't add all the tags to the resident pool that you claim it will.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-11 AT 03:41PM (MST)[p]1FastGambler,

I appreciate the tone of your post. I suppose it gets down to perspective at this point. As you said, just in elk tags alone there will be approx 1500 more tags for residents families. That is huge. Then when you add antelope,bear,dear etc, we have a few thousand easy. As far as deer, we are not exactly a highly sought out state for that natural resource. IMO, we need to cut back more on all deer tags.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-11 AT 03:48PM (MST)[p]I see 1,508 additional elk tags for residents with the new changes. This does not account for the few state wildlife area tags, so add a couple more to the above total.

Since NR only drew 11.6% of the deer tags how can you say that dropping their total allocation to 16% will give more tags to residents?

I just don't see "thousands" more resident tags.

edit: good news that we see the same number of tags for elk. We're almost on the same page here. I agree that 1500+/- more residents getting tags to go hunt is a good thing. I'm just sharing my frustrations with everyone. It makes me feel better! Take it with a grain of salt as I didn't intend to attack anyone personally. I know that there is a much better solution and this wasn't it, that's all.

Cheers!
 

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