New Regs are MESSED UP!!!

[Idahoron]

Since I haven't seen anything posted about the new regs I thought I would bring it up.
For a number of years and in last years regs it said on page 62 under "it is unlawful to" Hunt any species with the aid of artifical light EXCEPT racoons. See furbearer rules int he upland game season brochure bla bla bla.
Well this year is says this
on page 64 under "it is unlawful to" Hunt any species with the aid of artifical light EXCEPT predatory and unprotected wildlife (see pg 66)

Well on page 66 it says predatory animals
Predatory and Unprotected Wildlife: Coyotes, skunks,
weasels, jackrabbits, raccoons and starlings are classified by
Idaho law as predatory and unprotected. They may be taken
in any number year-round and at any time by holders of the
appropriate valid Idaho hunting or trapping licenses, provided
such taking is not in violation of state, county or city laws,
ordinances, rules or regulations.

Well after a lot of talking to several different people in the F&G I have had differnt answers. Bottom line is some are saying NO you can't hunt predators with a spot light. You have to have a permit and there are other rules. Too bad the "rules" are not in the "rules" book. So be warned, I was told that if your spot lighting predators you will get a ticket unless you have a permit and you follow the rules that are not in the rules book.

On other new stuff. You now do not have to keep bear meat. Also you don't have to keep meat off of the neck, between the ribs and over the ribs of deer and elk and the other game animals. I don't understand that at all.
And last You can now use a pistol in a short range weapon hunt.
It says
"In big game seasons restricted to short-range weapons,
it is unlawful for hunters to use any weapon other than a
muzzleloader, archery equipment, crossbow, a shotgun using
slugs or shot of size #00 buck or larger, or a pistol using
straight-walled cartridges not originally developed for rifles."

You can't use a 45-70 pistol, but you can use a 25 auto to hunt big game.
There are other new things but these have me scratching my head. Ron

 

[muzzhunter]

Seems dumb to me too. I would think if they tried to ticket you for spotlighting the listed critters you should have an easy time getting it resolved. After all they wrote the rules that way. Those pistol regs are really dumb!

 

[Idahoron]

I just want guys to be warned. Find out before you go. Ron

 

[Frontier]

Thanks Ron. I might of got sucked in on the spot lighting.

 

[huntfishall1]

I'm surprised they changed the waste of edible meat regs. They have always been very strict with that law. I wonder what prompted the change. I personally dont care to take the rib meat, but the neck can yield some decent meat.

 

[Idahotrophyhunter]

So a 460 SW or a 500 SW no can be used on a short range weapon hunt, both of these rounds give experienced shooters 200 yards capabilities...thats not short range.

Ridgeline Outdoors Hunt Staff.

 

[THEBUGLER]

Imo, Its ridiculous to not make us hunters salvage neck and rib meat. On an average bull there is 20-30lbs of meat between the 2, and to me, that's a lot of burger. I feel that will give lazy hunters an excuse to leave more meat in the woods.....the animals deserve more respect than that.

"Winners make commitment, Losers make excuses.

 

[Salmonfg]

LAST EDITED ON May-05-10 AT 02:27PM (MST)[p]The regulation regarding edible meat was a statute change directly from the 2010 Idaho Legislature, not a bill put forward IDFG.

You can find complete information at http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2010/H0416.htm

By the way, it passed both houses unanimously:

H0416 ........................by RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION FISH AND GAME Amends existing law relating to fish and
game to provide that it shall be unlawful to waste edible
portions of any game animal and to provide exceptions.
01/26 House intro - 1st rdg - to printing
01/27 Rpt prt - to Res/Con
02/12 Rpt out - rec d/p - to 2nd rdg
02/15 2nd rdg - to 3rd rdg
02/19 3rd rdg - PASSED - 65-0-5
AYES -- Anderson, Andrus, Barrett, Bayer, Bedke,
Bell, Bilbao, Black, Boe, Bolz, Boyle, Burgoyne,
Chadderdon, Chavez, Chew, Clark, Collins, Cronin,
Durst, Eskridge, Gibbs, Hagedorn, Hart, Harwood,
Henderson, Higgins, Jaquet, Jarvis, Killen, King,
Kren, Lake, Loertscher, Luker, Marriott, Mathews,
McGeachin, Moyle, Nielsen, Nonini, Palmer,
Pasley?Stuart, Patrick, Pence, Raybould, Ringo,
Roberts, Ruchti, Rusche, Sayler, Schaefer,
Shepherd(02), Shepherd(08), Shirley, Simpson,
Smith(30), Stevenson, Takasugi, Thayn, Thompson,
Trail, Wills, Wood(27), Wood(35), Mr. Speaker
NAYS -- None
Absent and excused -- Block, Crane, Hartgen,
Labrador, Smith(24)
Floor Sponsor - Wood(27)
Title apvd - to Senate
02/22 Senate intro - 1st rdg - to Res/Env
03/04 Rpt out - rec d/p - to 2nd rdg
03/05 2nd rdg - to 3rd rdg
03/16 3rd rdg - PASSED - 35-0-0
AYES -- Andreason, Bair, Bilyeu, Bock, Brackett,
Broadsword, Cameron, Coiner, Corder, Darrington,
Davis, Fulcher, Geddes, Goedde, Hammond, Heinrich,
Hill, Jorgenson, Kelly, Kerby(Keough), LeFavour,
Lodge, Malepeai, McGee, McKague, McKenzie, Mortimer,
Pearce, Schroeder, Siddoway, Smyser, Stegner,
Stennett(Stennett), Werk, Winder
NAYS -- None
Absent and excused -- None
Floor Sponsor - Siddoway
Title apvd - to House
03/17 To enrol
03/18 Rpt enrol - Sp signed
03/19 Pres signed
03/22 To Governor
03/25 Governor signed
Session Law Chapter 93
Effective: 07/01/10

Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region

 

[Salmonfg]

Allowing handguns in short-range seasons was the result of repeated requests to the Idaho Fish and Wildlife Commission by handgun hunters over a period of several years. The regulation wording is very simialr to that in Montana (for traditional handguns):
? Traditional Handguns:
? is not capable of being shoulder mounted;
? has a barrel length of less than 10 ? inches;
? chambers only a straight wall cartridge, not originally developed for rifles.

Yes, like any broad definition, it will allow some weapons some may or may not consider optimal for the designation. And like many regulations, it allows the user the freedom and responsibility to select a weapon and cartridge with which they feel capable and confident of cleanly harvesting an animal. If dozens of hunters go out with .25 autos and cripple deer, I suspect the Commission would act to further restrict the weapons available, but I'm not aware of such issues being a problem in MT.

Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager

 

[Deerlove]

Neck meat on an elk should always to salvaged.

 

[brymoore]

I might go shoot a bear now.

 

[Salmonfg]

To clarify, the law becomes effective 1 July 2010.

Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager

 

[brymoore]

OK - I'll take out the meat should I see one.

 

[mulesnbucks]

Salmonfg, I am glad and really appreciative to see you post on here. Can I change directions a bit? Could I get your comment on the use of electronic euipment regarding mtn lions. I have written the f&g asking the reason you can only use in certain areas. With their instincts the chances of calling in and harvesting a lion is very unlikely. I do not have hounds so the use of a e-caller would at least give me a better chance than if I used hand calls. I will post their response at the end. It doesn't make sense to me. They admit they are ineffective and I wasn't asking to increase the harvest rates. If I wanted to increase the harvest rate I know it will probably take hounds which is exactly what they do allow? I hope my point made sense? Thanks for your time and again glad to have a chance to talk to ya or at least vent a little.

f&g response.

In general, the department does not allow the use of electronic calls for the harvest of any big game animals. However, a few experimental exceptions have been made in units where we would like to increase lion harvest in order to decrease pressure on vulnerable prey populations (such as bighorn sheep in units 41 and 42). Although electronic calls are not particularly effective, we are not looking to increase lion harvest rates in most units.

 

[carterj16]

2nd on might shoot a bear now, only did it once because it was a waste of my money to have it processed, can I shot a bear and put it on somebodys bait?

 

[springbear]

I would not think you could use the bear in a bait. They are still game animals, and thus not to be used. In fact, I bet it is still littering if you throw it out in the woods at all....

I am a bit suprised by the neck meat rule. I kind of agree with the rib meat.

I think the pistol rules are an attempt to do something positve. I am more concerned with the max range of some pistols than some dim whit using a 25 auto...

I would like to have some clarification on the spotlighing rule. I always thought I had a good handle on those rules. guess i could be wrong... done a fair amount of spotlighting and never got in trouble with F&G.

 

[Salmonfg]

mulesnbucks,

I'm probably not the best person to discuss the issue because I have not had to deal with it directly in this region. But perhaps I can put it in a broader perspective of fair chase and precedent. I will say up front one can find discrepancies in a wide variety of hunting and fishing regulations, in Idaho and probably every other state. These tend to arise because of social or political direction to change a small piece of the rules to accommodate some portion of the constituents in an area.

Some, maybe a majority, would likely see wide application of electronic calling as standing in opposition to generally accepted fair-chase methods of take for game species. Electronic calls are generally not allowed and have not been for many years. They're are a few exceptions, most notably spring goose, some "predatory animals" (I'm specifically refering to species with statutory defintion as predatory, not predators that are classified as game animals), and in limited locations, lions where there is a perceived or real impact on a localized prey population. These situations are viewed, at least by managers,

From a precedent standpoint, if allowed for lion, why not bear? If bear, why not turkey, elk, ducks?

Probably not a particularly satisfying answer for you, but maybe it helps.

Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager

 

[Salmonfg]

I agree - bears are still a game animal and can't be used for bait.

Yes, some handguns will not fall in what most think of as short range. But probably some could say the same about shotguns with rifled barrels and set up for saboted slugs, or some muzzleloader setups (all in the right hands, of course). By and large, the short-range hunts are set-up to reduce (cannot eliminate) the likelihood of bullets travelling very long distances in areas where greater human development and thus, safety concerns, are a potential issue. (As opposed to managing for reduced harvest by limiting realistic lethal range of the weapons.) I am not a ballistician, but in general, the projectiles for these short-range weapons tend to be heavy and have poor trajectories compared to centerfire rifles, so they pose less risk.

The rules for hunting predatory and unprotected wildlife are in both statute and administrative code (Commission rules). Actual rules are below.

In short,
Hunting predatory and unprotected wildlife with an artificial light, it is allowed if
1. for the purpose of protecting property or livestock,
2. done by landowners or persons authorized in writing by them to do so and is done on property they own, lease or control;
3. for public land, with a permit from the IDFG director

For raccoon, you cannot
Hunt from a motorized vehicle, use any light attached to any motor vehicle, or hunt on private land without obtaining written permission from the landowner or lessee.

From Idaho Statute Title 36, Chpater 11 (http://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title36/T36CH11SECT36-1101.htm)
...it is unlawful for any person to:...

5. Artificial Light. Hunt any animal or bird except raccoon by the aid of a spotlight, flashlight or artificial light of any kind. The act of casting or throwing, after sunset, the beam or rays of any spotlight, headlight or other artificial light capable of utilizing six (6) volts or more of electrical power upon any field, forest or other place by any person while having in his possession or under his control any uncased firearm or contrivance capable of killing any animal or bird, shall be prima facie evidence of hunting with an artificial light. Provided nothing in this subsection shall apply where the headlights of a motor vehicle, operated and proceeding in a normal manner on any highway or roadway, cast a light upon animals or birds on or adjacent to such highway or roadway and there is no intent or attempt to locate such animals or birds. Provided further, nothing in this subsection shall prevent the hunting of unprotected or predatory wildlife with the aid of artificial light when such hunting is for the purpose of protecting property or livestock, is done by landowners or persons authorized in writing by them to do so and is done on property they own, lease or control; and provided further that the hunting and taking of unprotected or predatory wildlife with the aid of artificial light on public lands is authorized after obtaining a permit to do so from the director. The director may, for good cause, refuse to issue such permit.


From Idaho Code 13.01.16 400 (http://adm.idaho.gov/adminrules/rules/idapa13/0116.pdf)
400.METHODS OF TAKE....

02. Hunting. No person hunting permissible furbearing animals or predatory or unprotected wildlife shall: (7-1-93)
c. Hunt any furbearing animal, except raccoon, with or by the aid of artificial light. (7-1-93)
d. No person hunting raccoon at night shall: (7-1-93)
i. Hunt from a motorized vehicle. (7-1-93)
ii. Use any light attached to any motor vehicle. (7-1-93)
iii. Hunt on private land without obtaining written permission from the landowner or lessee. (7-1-93)

Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager

 

[mulesnbucks]

>From a precedent standpoint, if allowed
>for lion, why not bear?
> If bear, why not
>turkey, elk, ducks?
>
>Probably not a particularly satisfying answer
>for you, but maybe it
>helps.
>
>Tom Keegan
>IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager

I had not looked at it from that point of view you are right. Thanks

 

[Idahoron]

Tom, You did a good job of clearing up the spotlighting rule, BUT! The problem is the way it reads in the regulations WILL lead people to spotlight coyotes. Like I said to others. When we teach hunter ed I have heard the CO's ask the kids " where do you find the rules for Deer, elk, ducks, and the answer is the regulations" The problem I see is the answer is NOT in the regulations. It says look in the upland book under furbearer. I will recommend that the dept clear this up THERE and do it right. Ron

 

[Salmonfg]

I agree. There have been multiple attempts to rearrange and modify the regulations books to try to simplify and make them more user-friendly. However, sometimes reorganization leads to too much combining or loss of information, particularly with some of the software used for publishing. I've made a note to address the issue for the next regulation cycle. Thanks for pointing out the problem.

Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager