new VC bill

[earlyriser]

I posted this on another forum as well. If you like the VC the way it is you might want to contact Udall and Heinrich.

Transfer Valles Caldera to the National Park Service
February 12, 2013

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senators Tom Udall and Martin Heinrich reintroduced legislation today to transfer the management of the Valles Caldera National Preserve to the National Park Service (NPS).

Udall and retired Sen. Jeff Bingaman first introduced this legislation in 2010 in light of inconsistent funding, the need for infrastructure improvements and concerns that the Preserve would not achieve financial self-sustainability by 2015, as directed by the Valles Caldera Preservation Act of 2000.

"Millions of years in the making, the Valles Caldera is a natural wonder, rich in geology, ecology and culture," said Udall. "With its vast grass-filled valleys, forested hillsides and numerous volcanic peaks, the caldera means a great deal to the surrounding communities and tribes. Incorporating this landscape into theNational Park Service will preserve its resources and allow for public enjoyment by future generations. Additionally, I want to applaud the years of work that the Board of Trustees and Preserve employees have invested in caring for this unmatched natural resource."

"As someone who's spent time hunting and fishing in the Valles Caldera, I know well how incredible this area is. Families in New Mexico take their children to the vast swath just west of Los Alamos, they create memories, and learn about the rich culture this land brings to our state. But admission to this oasis has been limited," said Heinrich. "The Valles Caldera National Preserve Management Act would help protect the abundant natural resources of the Preserve while increasing recreational access for hiking, camping, hunting, and fishing for all New Mexicans. Making the Valles Caldera more accessible would improve the quality of life for all who visit, for all who benefit from the tourism dollars it brings, and for all who pass on New Mexico's outdoor traditions to their children in such a spectacular setting. This bill also ensures that traditional uses of the resources in the Caldera continue and that nearby pueblos' sacred sites remain protected."

A study requested by Udall and Bingaman in 2009 determined that the Valles Caldera met the high criteria for inclusion in the NPS, noting its significant national value and unique, unaltered geology.

The bill directs the NPS to take over management in a way that protects the Preserve's natural and cultural resources. Hunting, fishing and cattle grazing would continue to be permitted under the legislation. Additionally, the measure strengthens protections for tribal cultural and religious sites and ensures local tribes access to the area.

The first calls to bring the Valles Caldera into the NPS were in 1899. In four separate studies throughout the next century the Park Service found that the area was suitable for protective status under its management.

It wasn't until 2000 that Bingaman, retired Sen. Pete Domenici and then-Rep. Udall were successful in passing legislation to acquire the property for $100 million. The law established an experimental management framework where a Board of Trustees would manage the Preserve as a working ranch with public access, with the goal of becoming financially self-sustaining by 2015.

 

[jamaro]

Overall this could be a good thing...
J-

 

[Sierra]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-13 AT 09:57PM (MST)[p]>Overall this could be a good
>thing...
>J-


.....but most likely it will be a bad thing. S-

 

[jamaro]

maybe but the way the VC is setup it has to generate money and there are bunch of other things that make it like state owned ranch... If was taken over the NPS then it would remove a huge burden from the state and remove a ton of politics... Pearce has threatened several times to get sell state land and that is the big concern with the VC.

 

[WVHUNTER]

The NPS isn't who I would want managing my hunting ground. Hunting is allowed in some National Parks but that's not what they like doing.

There is NPS land near where I live that is open to hunting but every time they come up with a new management plan they want to stop hunting and it takes a lot of politics to keep the hunting open.

But I do understand the funding issues.

 

[elkz]

I would not want to see the Caldera go to the Park Service. However, if it is a choice between the land going to Jemez Pueblo or it becoming a National Park my vote would be for the park.

 

[JRABQ]

jamaro, who is it now a huge burden to the state? As I understand it is now under the jurisdiction of the Forest Service. I didn't think NM ponied up any $. Yes it is a strange setup, but the Feds own it now.

I am extremely leary of having move from FS to interior dept. (parks). NMWF has talked about how great this would be, including expanded hunting opportunities, I laughed at that one. And sure, moving it to Interior would take the "politics" out of it, another questionable statement. It might transfer some local "politics" (via the Caldera Board members) to the national political or federal bureacratic level. I don't see that as a positive.

 

[earlyriser]

I suppose since I started this I will offer up an opinion for what it is worth.
1. Heinrich states that access is an issue. I whole heartedly disagree. I've been on the VC as a hunter or hunters guest more than I will admit. Fish it several times a year. Take the family up several times a year hiking and glassing elk. I'm not a wealthy man by any stretch, so to say its a rich mans playground is outright wrong. Compared to the pecos, I will gladly pay $25 to go fish it.

2. Compare it to 6A or C. Do we really want it to turn into that? The VC is arguably one of the best areas in the country to shoot a descent elk. 400's no, but 300+ yes.

3. Once it starts getting passed around one never knows what will happen to it in the long run.

4. I cringe to think what it will become if unlimited access is granted. I may be wrong, but I believe this is what NMWF wants. Again, look at the surrounding units.

5. If my tax money is subsidizing the VC, I'll gladly pay it. Compare that to some of the useless programs we are paying for now. Paying for the VC is money well spent in my opinion.

6. Lastly, I'm just paranoid about giving government total control over anything.

 

[ABQHUNTER]

+1 I'm scared to death to see it go to the state! Kiss it goodbye! Anyone can buy a $25.00 ticket to have a chance to hunt a beautiful place, without 20 guys messing up your hunt, stalk etc! The place is like going back 100 years in time. I'm sick of people crying about access! Give me a break. You can hunt, hike and fish there, get over it! Keep it the way it is!

 

[Sierra]

NMWF probably just wants to turn it into a NP, so they can plant some wolves there.

 

[flymetyme]

I've hunted all over the state of NM and the Valles Caldera is trully a Gem. I started my two kids hunting in this very special place and have never had a problem getting access via draw hunts or helping out friend with their hunts. The price of lottery tickets is very reasonable and your odds and success rates are really good. If you open it up as a free for all, you'll have trash and garbage all over like the rest of are National Forest in our state. people squatting just because they can and all the other BS that goes on in the NM-NF. Leave it like it is because you know whats going to happen in a free for all.

 

[JFWRC]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-13 AT 05:47AM (MST)[p]Jason

Is NMWF supporting the Caldera going to the NPS?

Jim

 

[jamaro]

The NMWF nor the BOD have maybe any formal statements on the VC. BUT there are a few things to remember about this semi-private model of ranching...

-ALL funding for the property needs to come from user fees.

-The property must be completely self-sufficient by 2015,right now there is an annual Congressional Appropriation to keep it running(I don't' know how long that can last)

-Right now it is in the RED

-Last year there was a bill that was introduced that call for the removal of 25% of all BULL tags from the draw and make them available at auction.

-The BOD of trustees has even look a a massive development to try and generate funds

-Several Tribes are looking at the property and are making claims

-Remember last year there was a bill introduced to sell the property

-There was a study released last year that indicated that if it was part of the Park Service there would be a significant savings.

IF it were to go to the park service a lot of the uncertainty and risk to the property would be removed. There is no way in telling how the PS would run the property but we do know that there are a lot of people trying to get it or sell it.

I don't think there is a perfect situation but the VC is a low hanging fruit and it is ripe for the picking, my concern is that it gets sold or they raise fees so high nobody can get on it.


J-

 

[hntbambi]

When is the last time the government took over anything and the outcome was good?

 

[JFWRC]

Again, IMHO, there is something totally wrong here when 96,000 deeded acres of prime land, free and clear of debt.......cannot sustain itself. I would love to see the income and expenses of this place. This place has to cash flow. Someone or something needs a line item veto big time. Totally nuts.......

 

[JFWRC]

If there is an issue with cash flow, lets get the numbers and go to a bank to have an expert in ag lending show them how to work this deal. A line of credit could be the simple answer before we go giving this to the NPS. The Government cannot get this place.....it would be a disaster and we the taxpayer would end up making sure all the crap works.

I am not sure how the trust was set up. Most trust's, revocable or irrevocable can borrow money. I want to see the numbers! If it can't borrow......amend the trust where it can. A simple operating line could be means to deal with this.......as well as getting a manager that knows how to make the ranch work from a cash flow standpoint.

Could someone list the current trustees names? I'd love to talk to them.

 

[earlyriser]

http://www.vallescaldera.gov/about/trust/trust_botmembers.aspx

The BOD of VC for anyone who would like to talk to them.

 

[JFWRC]

Ok-I found some of the audited statements and the current trustee members. There are no NEW statements on line.......somethings fishy about that. The most recent is 2007.

If there are accountants out there, would you please look at the audited statements on line, even though old? Would love to here your thoughts that wouldn't get you into trouble.

Jim

 

[JFWRC]

Wow-A dose of reality........

Not that I want to give up......but this thing is clearly political to the max. Just googling the names to try and get phone numbers of the trustees is telling. This train is going full speed.

The only hope I can see is a NO vote in the US House of Representatives, of course then there would be an executive order.

Jim

 

[JFWRC]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-13 AT 11:33AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-13 AT 10:49?AM (MST)

DOES ANYONE OUT THERE THINK THE VALLE VIDAL DOES NOT WORK, even though its USFS?????

 

[cantgetdrawn]

I doubt the House will shoot the bill down if it actually saves money. Republicans are looking to cut spending.

I've never been to VV, but my understanding is it is similar to a wilderness area with less trails. I think that would be the best option.

 

[JFWRC]

"I've never been to VV, but my understanding is it is similar to a wilderness area with less trails. I think that would be the best option."

Cantgetdrawn is spot on.

I have approached a few folks at high levels about this bill and yes, the only way to stop the train is the house.......

The comment was made that the "best worst option would be to go with something similar to VV." They indicated we (all hunters) would need to make a huge effort toward getting all US legislators to amend the bill for this to happen.

We take a huge risk in allowing the bill to go foward in its current wording, allowing for hunting and fishing. From what I have heard this will be problematic down the road.

We need to push for VV type status with USFS oversite as the best worst option.

If you are on the same page, please let our congessional delegation know ASAP.

 

[Sierra]

Isn't VV closed to non-resident hunters?

 

[JFWRC]

It is open to NR.

Its USFS (federal) not a NM Wildlife Area.

 

[JFWRC]

earlyriser-What other forum did you post to?

Jim

 

[earlyriser]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-13 AT 11:20AM (MST)[p]I only posted on bowsite in the NM section. I was unsure what the reaction was going to be. I do not know how to do it, but someone needs to start some kind of a petition we can all sign on electronically and send it to the feds. House members having no idea what the VC is are going to be informed by Udall and Heinrich that it's a good idea to cut funding and turn it over to the NPS.

I will post this on the UBNM page as well.

 

[JFWRC]

OK-I will get it on the General Hunting and Elk forum here.

Thanks earlyriser!

Jim

 

[hank4elk]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-13 AT 04:32PM (MST)[p]The USDA/FS used to have Preserves under there their jurisdictions. Don't remember what happened to them all,but some became Wilderness ares. And that was LONG time ago.
And the forest circus has become just that,a circus.But the VV does work.

NPS is bad idea. Hunting and fishing resticted or losses. Sierra Club type club.

The Malpias National and Conservation Area does have hunting areas, Dept. of Int./BLM controlled. But with clowns like Pierce ready to sell BLM public lands to big $ interests,maybe not the folks to run it either. BLM can't cover the land they have now. I rarely see BLM out here where there is lots of their lands.

State of NM is the last folks I would want to see running it,and since they don't run it now and don't own it,that is at least good. They can't seem to find their a$$ with there own hands...Ohh thats right,because their hands are sticking out for bribes...

In all seriousness this is big deal. The VC is like walking back in time,and someday I hope to hunt there too. The folks running it now have drained the trust and have no clue how to manage the whole thing with a budget. They have done some good like the way I hear the hunts are run,but spent millions on un-neccessary road grading and culverts. And there is still no ripairian habitat work that seems to be working.
I came in 2nd for job there as Rec. co-ordinator a few years ago,but they gave it to FS lady that could not walk from van to office without loosing her breath...way out of shape for the job.
Keep brainstorming and thinking of possibilities folks. And maybe Jason could get NMWF to have petition be presented to officials,seems like the land sell off one seemed to work and they know the proccess. Hank

 

[bulleit]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-13 AT 07:39PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-13 AT 07:37?PM (MST)

NPS control will most likely end hunting on the VC. If they designate it a "National Park" vs. "National Conservation Area" then there will be no hunting. The NPS has been innundated by the preservationists and there actions in most of the lower 48 NP's provide ample evidence of what will become of the VC should they get their hands on it. The VC was doomed to failure as the preservationists on the trust have had no interest in controlling costs, knowing that by 2015 it would have to be turned over. They loaded up on biologists, anthropologists, geologist's, range scientists, etc. These positions were revenue negative and did little for the public. The opposite side of the balance sheet never got a lot of attention. Elk hunting was the major revenue generator. Everything else was not even close.


In addition I believe it may be the a cheaper alternative to the NPS. VV runs with 1 campground host if I remember right. They take care of both campgrounds. other than that, there isn't much personnel dedicated to it. NPS will want to put in a lot of ammenities, visitor center, guides with funny hats, maybe pave roads potentially. Just speculation on my part.

VC needs to be turned over to the Forest Service and then have the state of New Mexico copy the Valle Vidal plan and make it a once in a lifetime hunt unit. Designate a limited road system and all else is roadless. Wilderness rules. I believe VC and VV are close in size, so the model is there and proven.

 

[earlyriser]

http://thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:S.564:

A link to the actual bill.

 

[NMPaul]

I have also wondered why VC operates in the Red. If there is no debt service it should be reasonably easy to break even.

I know they run a much lower number of cattle on there than when it was private, but, elk hunting brings in some decent $.

I assume it is typical public sector management. Hate to see it change.

 

[JFWRC]

Everyone I have been talking to either 1) doesn't want it to change or 2) can see it be a Valle Vidal style management scenario.

If you truly want it to stay the same, please take the time to call or write all of our delegation and tell them. Tell them if they don't get it done right they loose your vote and you will do your best to campaign against them. It takes effort. I'm doing it because I've been there and I don't trust the government to keep hunting and fishing there.

Please spread the word.

Jim

 

[earlyriser]

+1 I will be doing the same.

 

[jamaro]

1)Something will need to change at the VC. Bottom line if the are not self sufficent by 2015 the property could be sold.

2) I have asked a few members of the VC board to look into what it would take to mimic what is happening at the VV. They promised to get back to me and start looking into it. At this point they are looking for solutions before 2015.

J

 

[jamaro]

OK.. I just got some emails in...
If the VC doesn't become self-sufficient by 2015 it can ask for a two year extension.. After that it the trustees can made a recommendation to continue or terminate the trust. If the trust is terminated, the Caldera becomes part of the Santa Fe National Forest without any special designation. Grazing allotments would be determined by the Forest Service and G&F would manage the hunting.

G&F decides the once-in-a-lifetime status and bag limits. Grazing is managed by the Forest Service.

It was after public input, the Parks Service?s study and the Congressional delegation?s decision to introduce legislation to make it a preserve that the current situation came about. Preserve status guarantees hunting and fishing, plus a preserve is more of a tourism draw and allows for special management rather than just being part of a forest and grazed based on Forest Service allotments rather than best management practices. A lot of what makes the Caldera special can be maintained with a preserve.

J-

 

[bulleit]

Here is an interesting document about making money and planning on th VC. ~2009 Study

http://www.vallescaldera.gov/about/trust/docs/VCTRevenuePlan20090327.pdf

Anybody want to be buried there? Green burial is projected to be the #1 revenue generator according to the study. Guess it wouldn't hurt as there is already a lot of ash up there.

 

[JRABQ]

ABQ Journal today had an article about the Fed response to the Jemez claim, asking for a dismissal, see page C3. No telling how this will turn out, but the article sounds like the Jemez Pueblo has an uphill battle.

Sorry, the full story requires subcription:

"Feds seek dismissal of land suit

SANTA FE ? Any aboriginal land claims by Jemez Pueblo were settled long ago and can't be raised again, according to the federal government, which is seeking dismissal of a lawsuit filed by the pueblo last summer to gain possession of the Valles Caldera National Preserve...."


http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2013/02/19/news/feds-seek-dismissal-of-land-suit.html

 

[earlyriser]

A response from Se. Udall



March 15, 2013


Dear Mr. Northup,


Thank you for contacting me regarding the Valles Caldera National Preserve. I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue.

The Valles Caldera Trust, a government chartered organization, is part of the National Forest System. It was established in 2000 by the Valles Caldera Preservation Act. I worked on this legislation with then-Senator Jeff Bingaman and other members of the New Mexico congressional delegation to protect and preserve the historic Baca Ranch in the Jemez Mountains. The act provided for the federal purchase of this 89,000-acre ranch and initiated a unique experiment in public land management by creating a government trust organization to manage the ranch, but to do so while representing the many Valles Caldera stakeholders.

On November 2, 2009, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) released its second report assessing whether or not the Valles Caldera Trust was meeting its statutory goals of remaining financially self-sustaining and protecting the unique beauty of the Valles Caldera National Preserve for future generations. In this assessment, the GAO reported that the Valles Caldera Trust had made progress in establishing staff organization, in engineering and in addressing infrastructure problems. However, the report also indicated that the Trust was behind schedule for achieving many of the goals laid out in the Valles Caldera Preservation Act.

With that in mind, Senator Bingaman and I wrote a letter to the acting director of the National Park Service at the time, Mr. Daniel Wenk, urging him to consider other future potential management options. A reconnaissance study was completed on the feasibility of including the Valles Caldera into the National Park System. This study found that it would, in fact, be feasible to do so.

After careful consideration following the reconnaissance study, the GAO report, as well as stakeholder input over the last few years, I introduced S. 285, the Valles Caldera National Preserve Management Act on February 12, 2013. S. 285 will transfer the Valles Caldera National Preserve to the National Park Service. Transferring the management of the Valles Caldera to the Park Service will help protect the Preserve's natural and cultural resources. S. 285 also will guarantee protection of tribal and religious sites in the area and will explicitly still permit fishing, hunting, and cattle grazing. S. 285 was referred to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee where no further action has yet occurred.

The Valles Caldera is a treasure to New Mexico and I am committed to its protection and preservation. Please be assured I will keep your thoughts in mind as we work to ensure the proper management of the Preserve.



Thank you again for sharing your thoughts with me. Please feel free to contact me with your concerns regarding any federal issue by visiting my website at www.tomudall.senate.gov. For more information, you may also visit my Facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/pages/Senator-Tom-Udall/106433512869 and receive up to the minute updates through my Twitter page at http://twitter.com/senatortomudall.

Very truly yours,

Tom Udall
United States Senator

 

[JFWRC]

Early Riser-Thanks for posting.....!!!

This sentence is the one that makes me cringe.

S. 285 also will guarantee protection of tribal and religious sites in the area and will explicitly still permit fishing, hunting, and cattle grazing. S. 285 was referred to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee where no further action has yet occurred.

The key words here being "guarantee" and "permit."

Clearly these words mean "will happen," and "may happen."

He tells us which committee its in. The link to the committee members is:

http://www.energy.senate.gov/public/

Please take the time to call the members and give them your thoughts......better yet e-mail them.

Again, thanks early riser for posting this letter and bringing the topic back to the top.

Jim

 

[earlyriser]

A link to the actual form.

http://www.energy.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contact

 

[earlyriser]

Another response.



May 3, 2013



Dear Mr. Northup,


Thank you for contacting me regarding the Valles Caldera National Preserve. I appreciate knowing your thoughts and concerns on this important issue.

The Valles Caldera National Preserve was created under the Valles Caldera Preservation Act of 2000 (P.L. 106-248), to protect the land known as the Baca Ranch. As an experiment in public land management, it was decided that the Preserve would be managed by the Valles Caldera Trust (a nine-member board of trustees) rather than by the United States Forest Service under a traditional public management model. Moreover, the legislation allowing the purchase of the land required the Preserve to be financially self-sustaining ? that is, the management of the Preserve would be paid for through revenues generated by activities at the Preserve rather than with tax revenues.

The Trust has proposed several options for generating its operating revenues, including auctioning trophy elk hunting tags and building a luxury lodge. Unfortunately, neither of these proposals would increase access to the Valles Caldera for New Mexico families unable to pay high prices. On June 24, 2009, former Senator Jeff Bingaman (NM) and Senator Tom Udall (NM) requested that the National Park Service (NPS) conduct a study to determine whether the Valles Caldera merited inclusion into the NPS as a National Preserve. On December 15, 2009, the NPS released their study, concluding that the Valles Caldera met the high standards of inclusion for the NPS. Senator Bingaman has twice introduced legislation to transfer management and oversight of the Valles Caldera National Preserve to the NPS.

This congressional session, Senator Udall reintroduced S. 285, the Valles Caldera National Preserve Management Act, to establish the Valles Caldera as a unit of NPS. It was referred to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources, a panel on which I sit. I am proud to be an original cosponsor of this legislation. As someone who's spent time hunting and fishing in the Valles Caldera, I know well how incredible this area is. The Valles Caldera National Preserve Management Act would help protect the abundant natural resources of the Preserve while increasing recreational access for hiking, camping, hunting, and fishing for all New Mexicans. As the managing agency for iconic sites like Yellowstone and Yosemite, the NPS has a reliable record for managing and maintaining sites that have high visitor traffic while still preserving the beauty of the parks. Making the Valles Caldera more accessible would improve the quality of life for all who visit, for all who benefit from the tourism dollars it brings, and for all who pass on New Mexico's outdoor traditions to their children in such a spectacular setting. I will work with my colleagues on the Energy and Natural Resources Committee to pass this legislation into law.

Again, thank you for contacting me. I hope you will continue keeping me informed of the issues important to you.

For more information, please visit my website, http://heinrich.senate.gov.



Sincerely,



MARTIN HEINRICH
United States Senator

 

[Gator]

Both sites he mention doesn't allow hunting.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[NMPaul]

I got a feeling we are seeing the best days of the VCNP now. Glad my wife will get to hunt there again this year.
Never know when it will be the last.

 

[DUKFVR]

>I got a feeling we are
>seeing the best days of
>the VCNP now. Glad
>my wife will get to
>hunt there again this year.
>
>Never know when it will be
>the last.


Sure is looking sad for sure.

 

[mailman]

Im sure if hunters could apply for it as one of their choices instead of applying for a lottery ticket , everyone in this forum wouldn't have a problem with it staying in the trust!

 

[JFWRC]

LAST EDITED ON May-25-13 AT 01:12PM (MST)[p]Got the paragraph below in an e-mail this AM.

I guess others are not so convinced as well.

The New Mexico Wildlife Federation spoke in support of the legislation at the Commission meeting Thursday and it seems they may have also directly assisted the Senators in drafting the Bill (United States SB 285). The Game Commission however, was not persuaded by the NMWF and there was an emergency motion, which passed unanimously, to allow NMDGF Director Jim Lane to use whatever means necessary to fight the legislation.

 

[JFWRC]

The New Mexico Wildlife Federation spoke in support of the legislation at the Commission meeting Thursday and it seems they may have also directly assisted the Senators in drafting the Bill (United States SB 285).

Jason-Did your organization assist the senators in drafting this bill?

 

[fast]

And here is the line to make you nervous "they will designate zones where no hunting is permitted"

 

[earlyriser]

I am not the only one uneasy about the transfer.

New Mexico Department of Game and Fish
Media contact: Dan Williams, (505) 476-8004
Public contact: (505) 476-8000
[email protected]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, JUNE 14, 2013:

DIRECTOR, SENATOR AIDES DISCUSS DEPARTMENT OPPOSITION
TO VALLES CALDERA LEGISLATION

SANTA FE ? Department of Game and Fish representatives, including Director Jim Lane and State Game Commissioners, met Friday with representatives of U.S. Sen. Tom Udall to discuss the Department's concerns with proposed legislation that would transfer management of the Valles Caldera National Preserve to the National Park Service.

The discussion was prompted by a June 3 letter from Lane to Sen. Udall and Sen. Martin Heinrich stating the Department's opposition to the Senate?s bill (S. 285), currently before the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. The State Game Commission unanimously voted May 23 to oppose the bill, which commissioners said included language that could negatively affect wildlife management and sport hunting, fishing and trapping on the 89,000-acre preserve.

?This was a positive step toward addressing the concerns of our agency and the sportsmen and women who care about wildlife, fishing and hunting on one of New Mexico?s most precious pieces of public land,? Director Lane said. ?We are optimistic that Senator Udall will work with us to find a better plan for the preserve.?

In his letter to the senator, Lane expressed concerns that transfer of the property to the National Park Service ?will result in increasing conflict over management authority, a poorly managed elk population, lost hunting opportunity and increased conflicts with adjacent landowners.? He cited vague language in the bill regarding wildlife management authority and fishing and hunting opportunities, and his concerns that the National Park Service objective is resource preservation at the expense of conservation and recreation.

The Game Commission plans to discuss the proposed legislation and allow full public discussion at its Aug. 22 meeting in Grants.

Click here for more information about S. 285. For more about the Valles Caldera National Preserve, please click here.

###

 

[fast]

Safari Club International Washington lobby is opposed and is all over this bill and they have reached out to the AWCP or American Wildlife Conservation Partners, a group of 42 Hunter/Conservation organizations with combined membership of over 6 million members for support. RMEF is also strongly opposed, my impression is that about the only support is coming from the NWF and other enviro organizations and that that support is beginning to erode. Bill we be heard in Committee tue the 18th and is number 5 on the schedule. Plans are already being made for a firewall in the house but SCI is hoping to kill this in the Senate

Cheers

 

[JFWRC]

PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THIS LETTER and NOTE THE ORGANIZATIONS AGAINST!!!


The Honorable Tom Udall The Honorable Martin Heinrich
United States Senate United States Senate
110 Hart Senate Office Building 540D Dirksen Senate Office
Washington, DC 20510 Washington, DC 20510

June 17, 2013

Dear Senators Udall and Heinrich:

Our organizations, which represent millions of sporting conservationists, have reviewed S. 285 ?To designate the Valles Caldera National Preserve as a unit of the National Park System, and for other purposes.? We are well aware of the historic attempts to protect this property and have been aware that the experiment with making the property a public/private enterprise has been a challenge. Additionally, we are aware that a hearing was held on April 23, 2013 regarding S. 285 before the Energy and Natural Resources Subcommittee on National Parks and that the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish has expressed its opposition to S. 285 in a letter to Senator Udall on June 3, 2013.

Several of the undersigned organizations have long been concerned over legislation to move the Valles Caldera National Preserve (VCNP) to the National Park Service (NPS). For instance, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation provided a letter of comment in July 2010 to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee opposing the transfer of the VCNP to the NPS. The National Wild Turkey Federation testified before the Committee that same year expressing their belief that if a transfer was needed, it should be to the U.S. Forest Service. With this in mind, the undersigned organizations wish to make it clear that this letter neither supports nor opposes dissolution of the Valles Caldera Trust.

We are opposed to transferring the VCNP to the NPS. The VCNP, while covering approximately 89,000 acres, does not represent an ecosystem, but more resembles an island surrounded almost entirely by the Santa Fe National Forest. It does not seem prudent to create yet another jurisdictional boundary for this important wildlife habitat that would only serve to complicate management of wildlife and other natural resources.
The enabling legislation (Public Law 106-248, the Valles Caldera Preservation Act) specifically charges the Secretary of Agriculture with primary powers over the Preserve while management will be under the auspices of the Valles Caldera Trust. Sect. 110 addresses the termination of the Valles Caldera Trust at the end of the twentieth full fiscal year following acquisition. The section further goes on to state ?in the event of termination of the Trust, the Secretary shall assume all management and administrative functions over the Preserve, and it shall be managed as a part of the Santa Fe National Forest, subject to all laws applicable to the National Forest Systems.? The groups signed below strongly advocate adhering to the intent of the enabling legislation passed on January 24, 2000.

With regards to recreational hunting, we believe that NPS policy, management and administration are likely to further complicate wildlife resource management on the VCNP. Section 3 of the bill appears to protect hunting:?the Secretary, in consultation with the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish, shall permit hunting and fishing on land and waters within the Preserve in accordance with applicable Federal and State laws, and may, designate zones in which, and establish periods during which, no hunting or fishing shall be permitted for reasons of public safety, administration, the protection of wildlife and wildlife habitats, or public use and enjoyment.?

However, we believe the language gives the Administration too much discretion that could easily result in the drastic reduction or elimination of hunting on the VCNP. This concern is coupled to the fact that NPS policy and procedures generally try to minimize or eliminate hunting on lands they manage. The National Park System has limited units where big game, upland game bird or waterfowl hunting are allowed and with approximately 3,000 elk on the property, for example, we need an agency with experience in active wildlife and habitat management administering this area.

A petition is circulating claiming that the VCNP ?will lose virtually all protections in 2015 if Congress does not include it in the National Park System as a National Preserve.? Aside from the fact that 2015 has not arrived, the enabling Act for the VCNP clearly made provision for the protection of the VCNP should the Valles Caldera Trust be terminated. Further, the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) has a long history of managing public lands for multiple-use including hunting, fishing, trapping, access, game and non-game management, as well as wildlife habitat, recreation management, and the protection of cultural resources .

Several of the undersigned organizations met with your staff on June 11th to discuss the concerns we have over the transfer of Valles Caldera to the NPS rather than the USFS, if Congress decides that it is appropriate to dissolve the Valles Caldera Trust. The opportunity to open a dialogue about the bill was much appreciated and we look forward to further communication. Your offices both have a history of being strong voices for wildlife conservation and wildlife habitat management. However, the signatories still believe that transferring management of the preserve to the NPS rather than the USFS, now or in the future, is inconsistent with the original intent of Congress and would be contrary to the interests of America?s hunting and fishing conservationists.

Finally, during the meeting we also discussed the development of language that would advance the opportunities for hunting and angling on existing National Park Service units and would like to discuss this concept in more detail in the future, however we do not believe that the VCNP is the appropriate location to test this language. Please feel free to contact any of our organizations or you may also call or email Blake Henning with the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation at 406-523-0273 or [email protected].

Sincerely,

Archery Trade Association
Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies
Bear Trust International
Boone & Crockett Club
Bowhunting Preservation Alliance
Catch-A-Dream Foundation
Congressional Sportsman?s Foundation
Conservation Force
Masters of Foxhounds Association
Mule Deer Foundation
National Association of Forest Service Retirees
National Rifle Association
National Shooting Sports Foundation
National Wild Turkey Federation
North American Bear Foundation
North American Grouse Partnership
Orion ? The Hunters? Institute
Quality Deer Management Association
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Ruffed Grouse Society
Safari Club International
Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership
Wild Sheep Foundation
Wildlife Forever
Wildlife Management Institute
cc: Members of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee
Members of the New Mexico Congressional Delegation
Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsak
Secretary of the Interior Sally Jewell
Chief of the U.S. Forest Service Tom Tidwell
Director of the National Park Service Jonathan Jarvis

 

[JFWRC]

RMEF Letter


Call to Action: Oppose the Valles Caldera National Preserve Transfer

CALL NOW!

Twenty-five outdoor conservation organizations, including the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation (link), joined together to express concern and their united opposition over a proposal to shift management of the 89,216 acre Valles Caldera National Preserve in north-central New Mexico to the National Park Service (NPS). The Valles Caldera National Preserve Act (S. 285) is scheduled for debate before the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Subcommittee on National Parks on Tuesday, June 18.
If passed, there are multiple concerns regarding future activities allowed in the Preserve:
Reduction or elimination of hunting
Negative impact on effective wildlife managment
Negative impact on habitat management
Possible loss of grazing
RMEF and its partners advocate for the transfer of the Valles Caldera National Preserve to the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) which already manages the surrounding Santa Fe National Forest. The USFS, unlike the NPS, has a long history of managing public lands for multiple-use including hunting, fishing, trapping, access, game and non-game management, as well as wildlife habitat, recreation management, and the protection of cultural resources.

Call Senator Tom Udall (202-224-6621) and Senator Martin Heinrich (202-224-6621) to express opposition to the Valles Caldera National Preserve Act.
Read the coalition?s letter in its entirety






This e-mail advertisement was sent to XXXXXXXXXXXXX.
You received this e-mail as a valued supporter of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.
If you prefer not to receive e-mail offers like this one from the RMEF in the future, you may Click Here.
The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation is located at 5705 Grant Creek Rd, Missoula, MT 59808.



232054

 

[jamaro]

The Valles Caldera bill passed the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee this morning with bipartisan support.

J-

 

[fast]

Keep the faith boys, when 25 hunter/conservation organizations with membership numbers exceeding 5 million and who keep paid lobbyist in DC sign up to fight this , and when it becomes apparent that not even the States Game and Fish Dept supports the bill you can pretty much figure that this bill has seen its last vote

 

[WapitiBob]

It doesn't appear to be too popular. The only positive comments on Bowsite are from the hired help who joined up so they could post.

 

[cantgetdrawn]

I got the following email from RMEF this morning. I posted the link to the actual text of the bill for those who haven't read it yet, which was included in the email.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s285/text


It's going to be interesting to see if this bill passes.

-----------------------------------------
Oppose S. 285: Valles Caldera National Preserve Management Act

The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation is among 25 outdoor conservation organizations that remain opposed to Senate bill 285 which would designate the VCNP in north-central New Mexico as a unit of the National Park System (NPS).

The New Mexico Wildlife Federation (NMWF) is circulating supposed ?FACTS? that are inaccurate regarding S. 285, such as:

HUNTING & FISHING GUARANTEED BY LAW: This is NOT a given. The NPS, which prohibits hunting in its parks, allows hunting in most preserves but the bill language still allows it to be shut down. The NPS or the Secretary of Interior may, at any time, elect to terminate any or all hunting on the VCNP. While a recent amendment strengthened language to that effect, the bill states the Secretary may still implement ?regulations closing areas within the Preserve to hunting, fishing, or trapping.? S. 285 does not provide any long-term guarantee toward sustained hunting. Language also states management and operations of the VCNP may be coordinated with the Bandelier National Monument where hunting is prohibited.

VCNP TAGS GO TO OUT-OF-STATE HUNTERS: VCNP wildlife officials maintain these are blue collar hunting opportunities, not high dollar hunts designed for the rich. The state quota formula remains in place on the VCNP, as across all of New Mexico (84% to residents, 10% to residents or nonresidents with an outfitter and 6% to nonresidents without an outfitter), as an effective method offering equitable hunting opportunity for the average sportsman and woman.

VCNP USED AS ?ELITIST? SYSTEM TO BENEFIT RMEF & OTHER ORGANIZATIONS: The NMWF seems to be trying to create a perception that RMEF is selling hunting tags on the VCNP for its own profit motives. RMEF has a long and proven track record to the contrary. RMEF supports the VCNP by accepting 4 elk and 8 donated turkey tags, placing them up for auction as a fundraising mechanism, and then returned nearly $40,000 to date for on-the-ground VCNP land and wildlife conservation projects.

VCNP IS A FAILED EXPERIMENT: This year?s lottery will raise $320,000. Original legislation called for the VCNP to become financially self-sufficient by raising funds for land and wildlife management. The elk hunting program is a major player in this arena. Elk hunts are lottery based with one lottery ticket for a bull/either sex hunt costing $30 apiece or $20 per ticket for antlerless-only hunts. (Antlerless hunts are available only for New Mexico residents.) There is a limit of 20 tickets per hunt code with people entering as many of the 14 hunt codes as preferred. The average purchase is 3.5 tickets per customer. (Again, the 84%-10%-6% resident formula from above applies.)

Additionally, habitat management is not a priority for NPS. It lives by a ?let it be and nature will manage? mantra, which will not serve the VCNP well if we are to expect it to remain open access for sportsmen and active hunting.

Under current law, the VCNP will become another unit of Santa Fe National Forest, allowing the U.S. Forest Service to become the managing agency. This is the preferred rout as the USFS has vast experience with wildlife and habitat management. While claiming to represent New Mexico sportsmen, the NMWF supports the least appealing option to sportsmen of transferring the Valles Caldera to the National Park System.

 

[Jeremy]

Just some facts to chew on:
The above email says the quota applies at Valles Caldera. That is true, but only after NMWF appealed to the Attorney General and got an opinion saying that the VC Trust and NMDGF were breaking state law by ignoring the resident quota.
The email celebrates the fact that a person is limited to buying only 20 tickets per hunt code. Again restriction was applied only after NMWF pushed for a limit. Below are news stories about it.

Direct quote from the Albuquerque Journal from what was going on before NMWF got the quota applied to the Caldera:

"Last year, under the old system, Game and Fish held a drawing for eight of the Caldera's bull tags, and the Caldera itself held a drawing for 48 bull tags. Of the latter group, only 13 hunters who drew licenses were from New Mexico.
Texas hunters scored seven of the tags, while other winners hailed from as far away as Indiana, Kentucky and Hawaii."


Below are a few newspaper stories that show the history here:

Valles Caldera Elk Raffles Draw 4,700+ Applicants
By: New Mexico Department of Game and Fish
Posted on: 07/27/02

More than 4,700 applicants purchased raffle tickets for the 2002 bull elk hunts on the Valles Caldera National Preserve. The hunt is the first since the federal government purchased the former Baca Ranch two years ago.
"The last two weeks were a madhouse," said Stephen Maurer, Special Projects Manager for the non-profit Public Lands Interpretive Association, which administered the raffle. "Newspaper articles in Nebraska, North Carolina and Albuquerque opened the floodgates. Our phones rang nonstop, mail poured in, online purchases came in by the hundreds. One outfitter plopped down a huge box of applications and our entire office was taken over by elk hunters."
Raffle tickets sold for $25 each with no limit on the number of tickets each applicant could purchase. Tickets went on sale April 1, 2002 and the deadline for entries was June 29. Antlerless permits for the Valles Caldera were issued through the Department of Game and Fish public draw.
"Many people waited for the results of the Game and Fish draw on June 19 before buying raffle tickets," said Maurer. "People were calling from every state. We even had one person from Spain buy four tickets and one from Indonesia bought $500 worth."
The second rifle hunt was the most popular with 3,505 tickets sold, followed by archery with 3,308 tickets.
The raffle drawing was held July 15 in Las Cruces and the results are posted at www.publiclands.org/vcnplottery/. Applicants will be notified of the results by E-mail or postcards.
The Valles Caldera Trust also had five bull elk access permits available for auction. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and Safari Club International auctioned two each, with two permits going for $12,000 and two for $15,000 apiece. The fifth permit is being auctioned on e-bay through August, with a minimum bid of $10,000.
Lucky hunters are assigned to a sub-unit of 5,000 acres within the preserve, with two hunters per sub-unit. They will attend an orientation two days prior to their hunts and scout the area the following day, said Maurer.
The 89,000-acre Valles Caldera National Preserve opens to public hunting for the first time this fall, two years after its purchase by Congress in July, 2000. Once privately held, the area offers high-elevation forests and grasslands habitat for a herd of more than 4,000 elk. A board of trustees called the Valles Caldera Trust manages the preserve and all proceeds from the raffle and the auctions go to the trust for management costs.
"All the hunters will have a wonderful time," said Maurer.


Change gives N.M. hunters better odds in Caldera elk lottery
But system still favors applicants who can afford more chances
November 27, 2003
Section: Outdoors & Recreation
Page: C1

Jeff Jones Journal Staff Writer


First the good news: If you're a New Mexico resident and want to hunt elk on the Valles Caldera National Preserve, your odds of scoring a license next year will likely be better than ever.
Now the bad news: Plunking down more money still equates to better odds, so the license system still favors hunters with deep pockets.
The state Game Commission earlier this month held a special meeting to revamp the way hunters apply for bull-elk permits on the Caldera -- an 89,000-acre Jemez Mountains gem not far from Los Alamos known as hallowed ground to many who dream of pursuing big, bugling bulls.
As a result of that meeting, a quota system that gives New Mexicans a big advantage in drawing a Caldera tag will go into effect next year. That's a welcome change, said Oscar Simpson, an elk hunter and president of the New Mexico Wildlife Federation.
Simpson, whose group pushed for the changes, said hunters around the state have been complaining about the former Caldera system, in which New Mexico residents did not get any preference over out-of-staters.
The wildlife federation supports the new rules, Simpson said, though it still has some heartburn over a continuing provision that allows hunters to buy as many $25 lottery chances as they wish.
"You're promoting rich people buying a bunch of tags so they can hunt in the Valles Caldera," Simpson said.
The Caldera, which is unique from other public land in that it has been mandated to become self-sufficient, generated about $350,000 this year from the elk system.
The hunts have been the largest money maker thus far for the Caldera, which became public land just three years ago. Preserve officials believe revenues could drop next year due to the changes.
Gary Ziehe, executive director of the Valles Caldera Trust, which manages the Caldera, said last week the changes aren't what the Caldera had in mind. But he said the Caldera and the state Game and Fish Department are partners, and that entails some give and take.
"The only issue of concern to us is, this is a national preserve, and we feel strongly we ought to be able to accommodate people from everywhere across the country," Ziehe said.
He added, however, that the Caldera realizes Game and Fish is responsible for managing New Mexico's game, saying, "This is a cooperative effort."

State control

Public elk hunts on the Caldera began in 2002, two years after the federal government purchased the area. During its first two hunting seasons, the Caldera doled out all or most of its bull-elk licenses through its own drawing system.
In that system, hunters from around the nation paid a nonrefundable, $25 fee per chance, and there was no limit on the number of chances a hunter could purchase. During the 2002 season, the hunt authorizations were fully transferable -- meaning someone could win a hunt, then peddle it off for thousands of dollars. That practice was stopped in the 2003 process.
State Game and Fish handles the drawing process for elk tags everywhere else in New Mexico, and it has a quota mandating that 78 percent of the licenses must go to resident hunters. That quota didn't apply in the Caldera-run drawings, but it should have, according to Attorney General Patricia Madrid.
In a formal opinion issued last week, Madrid said the previous elk-tag allocation system for the Valles Caldera didn't meet state law.
"We believe that the Legislature did not intend to allow other agencies to circumvent the law allocating 78 percent of the elk hunting licenses to New Mexico residents," she said in a statement. "The Valles Caldera is a treasure to be shared among all New Mexicans."
Last year, under the old system, Game and Fish held a drawing for eight of the Caldera's bull tags, and the Caldera itself held a drawing for 48 bull tags. Of the latter group, only 13 hunters who drew licenses were from New Mexico.
Texas hunters scored seven of the tags, while other winners hailed from as far away as Indiana, Kentucky and Hawaii.


No more. Game and Fish spokesman Marty Frentzel said the Game Commission during a Nov. 13 meeting voted to bring the entire Caldera elk-drawing process under the department's purview and in line with state law.


Frentzel said next year hunters will still have to purchase their $25 chances from the Caldera, and there will again not be any limit to the number of chances each hunter can buy. But now, hunters must submit these "access-agreement coupons" along with a Valles Caldera Trust hunt application to Game and Fish, instead of to the Caldera's management. Game and Fish will conduct the drawing using the 78 percent quota system.


That means more New Mexicans will walk away with Caldera licenses. But the New Mexico hunter who drops $100 for four chances will get better odds than the New Mexico hunter who buys only one chance.


The new system also eliminates a $150 user fee previously charged by the Caldera to hunters who applied through Game and Fish. Now, the $25 access coupon is the only fee that will be charged by the Caldera.


Hunters also can apply for other New Mexico elk hunts in addition to the Caldera hunt, Frentzel said.


The drawing for the Caldera licenses will take place before the regular elk-license drawing process. Hunters lucky enough to obtain a Caldera tag will be deleted from the other drawing and get a refund for their non-Caldera application, while the losers will get a chance to draw a hunt elsewhere.


Quality experience


So how good is elk hunting on the Caldera?


It hosted 90 bull-elk hunters in 2002, and a whopping 92 percent of those hunters came away with a bull.


This autumn, the Caldera hosted 20 bull-elk bowhunters, and 13 of them got an elk. The Caldera also hosted 45 rifle and muzzleloader bull-elk hunters; 42 of them connected.


The state Game and Fish Department doled out 215 cow-elk tags this year for the Caldera. As of last week, hunters had killed 93 cows with one hunting weekend left to go.


Ziehe said the majority of hunters lucky enough to draw a license consider it "one of the most fantastic hunts they've experienced."


Valles Caldera spokesperson Julie Grey added, "People are just ecstatic when they leave here. This is really a quality place to hunt. They get a lot of TLC and personal attention."


Richard Trujillo of Los Alamos, a hunter and guide who once did ranch work on what is now the preserve, was critical of the past system and did not try his luck in the Caldera draw. He said the changes are a big improvement, and he now plans to apply for a Caldera hunt next year.











Bidding proposed for Valles Caldera elk licenses
By Staci Matlock The New Mexican
Posted: 01/24/2009 11:58:35 PM MST

If a bill titled HB 11 passes the state Legislature this session, avid elk hunters might one day be able to bid on a license for a bull elk in the grand Valles Caldera National Preserve on eBay.
Rep. Jeannette O. Wallace, R-Los Alamos, is sponsoring the legislation, which would exempt 15-20 bull elk licenses from the usual state lottery requirements, allowing the licenses to be sold or auctioned at higher-than-usual prices.
All the revenues would go to support operations at the 89,000-acre Valles Caldera National Preserve.
Currently, elk licenses are issued through a lottery system managed by the state Department of Game and Fish, with a separate one conducted for the Valles Caldera. Currently, an average of 80 bull elk licenses are drawn for the preserve. State law mandates a certain number of the licenses for in-state residents.
If the bill passes, the exempted licenses would be available to anyone regardless of residency.
The exempted licenses would be integrated with regular lottery-drawn hunts on the preserve a few at a time.
Bull elk licenses drawn through the lottery for Valles Caldera currently cost $91 for residents and $768 for non-residents. If 15 to 20 licenses were exempted from the lottery, the preserve could eventually make $150,000 to $300,000 a year from them.
Some could be sold through the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Some could be sold directly at a set price. Some could be sold on eBay.
If the bill is approved, it would go into effect in July. The 2009 elk lottery for the Valles Caldera National Preserve will be online Jan. 26.

 

[Gator]

Bull elk licenses drawn through the lottery for Valles Caldera currently cost $91 for residents and $768 for non-residents. If 15 to 20 licenses were exempted from the lottery, the preserve could eventually make $150,000 to $300,000 a year from them.

Numbers are the money key, If they sell those tags for $300,000 then the hunters have done their part in the cost of VC, now other groups have to step up too.
Trespass fee to the rest of the public should come next.
Cattle grazing rights sold to highest bidder. Small herd only
You ever seen Calico town in Calif. JUST a idea to bring in more dollars.
NMWF will put wolves where ever they can, Kiss those elk tags good by.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
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