New WY Hunter Survey

elks96

elks96

Long Time Member
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So my daughter just got selected to be part of a new Resident Hunter Survey. The survey was meh at best. It was all about mule deer. I did like they asked about how you support deer culling for disease, also asked about doe hunting, asked again about splitting the white tail and mule deer tags, asked again about limited quota for all, and other options.

It ignored asking about 90/10, also ignored and left out further reducing NR tags, also hit pick a region etc. again.

It did ask about mandatory reporting, which is a good thing.
 
I have a bit of a negative attitude I guess but might be misplaced? Targeting youth is great as long as the motives are good but why wouldn't they want to know what long term hunters think about the same issues?
 
DaveD said:
I have a bit of a negative attitude I guess but might be misplaced? Targeting youth is great as long as the motives are good but why wouldn't they want to know what long term hunters think about the same issues?
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Haha. Most adults have no idea the trade off of going limited Bs general. They have no idea what pick a region means vs current set up, I am not opposed to youth being surveyed, but in our case between me and friends out of 14 people who could have revived the survey 3 were youth and no adults.

I am glad others are getting the survey. Bummed the survey did not hit in a few options…
 
elks96 said:
Haha. Most adults have no idea the trade off of going limited Bs general. They have no idea what pick a region means vs current set up, I am not opposed to youth being surveyed, but in our case between me and friends out of 14 people who could have revived the survey 3 were youth and no adults.

I am glad others are getting the survey. Bummed the survey did not hit in a few options…
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My 13 year old was added to the list last night.
 
At the end of the survey it asks if the respondent is 18 or older. My guess is 17 and under are kicked out.
 
I did mine and also a UW survey.

on the mandatory reporting i agree with but this needs to be approached correctly. ya the survey gets emailed but can end up in junk mail or spam and i imagine many dont get done due to this.

my thoughts is on your tag they have QR code so after hunting scan the code and takes you to your survey or something along the lines of that.
 
nfh said:
I did mine and also a UW survey.

on the mandatory reporting i agree with but this needs to be approached correctly. ya the survey gets emailed but can end up in junk mail or spam and i imagine many dont get done due to this.

my thoughts is on your tag they have QR code so after hunting scan the code and takes you to your survey or something along the lines of that.
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Or the other option is that before you can apply or buy any new license the system automatically forces you to take the surveys. So start with the QR code on the lic. then send a series of reminder emails (just like they do for the random survey), then as a last resort before a person can buy a points, get a turkey lic, even a the new years fishing lic. they must complete the survey.
 
jm77 said:
At the end of the survey it asks if the respondent is 18 or older. My guess is 17 and under are kicked out.
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Hymmm... We must have missed the age question. Was it part of the page where they ask about answering UW questions or something?
 
jm77 said:
It was on the UW end of the survey.
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So I just got selected. The "Personal Data" section is only filled out for the Game and Fish Panel if you select yes interested in serving on the panel. My 17 year old daughter had no interest when asked so she selected no. So the demographic questions only appear for the advisory/panel group interest.
 
I am going to suggest they kill more does and cull more bucks. and here is why

every deer meeting I have been to we squawk for LQ tags and do away with the general, don't shoot any does and try to get our herds back in check. They claim they will listen and take our suggestions, what i have learned before any meeting they have their minds made up. so I figure If I squawk for the opposite maybe they will do the right thing. for the most at the meetings the public is on the same page, usually get the one guy that never draws and the one guy who doesn't see anything when he put 1 percent into the hunt.
 
nfh said:
I am going to suggest they kill more does and cull more bucks. and here is why

every deer meeting I have been to we squawk for LQ tags and do away with the general, don't shoot any does and try to get our herds back in check. They claim they will listen and take our suggestions, what i have learned before any meeting they have their minds made up. so I figure If I squawk for the opposite maybe they will do the right thing. for the most at the meetings the public is on the same page, usually get the one guy that never draws and the one guy who doesn't see anything when he put 1 percent into the hunt.
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This thought crossed my mind as well, but eventually went with my true thoughts. Matters little, we will get asked the same questions over and over until the G&F gets the answer they are looking for.
 
nfh said:
I am going to suggest they kill more does and cull more bucks. and here is why

every deer meeting I have been to we squawk for LQ tags and do away with the general, don't shoot any does and try to get our herds back in check. They claim they will listen and take our suggestions, what i have learned before any meeting they have their minds made up. so I figure If I squawk for the opposite maybe they will do the right thing. for the most at the meetings the public is on the same page, usually get the one guy that never draws and the one guy who doesn't see anything when he put 1 percent into the hunt.
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There are a ton of people who do not want to do away with general tags for residents and many of us are pretty vocal in different ways. I am against LQ for resident across the board, also against pick a region. I do believe that prior to this winter things were different, but I sure don't want to abandon the current system simply due to the winter that by all accounts was extra harsh.

I would much prefer hunting with my family every year and once every 3-4 years finding a big buck vs. my family and I sitting out several years to end up killing a 150 buck.

There are several things that can be done. Get ride of all doe hunting even for youth. Decrease harvest by NR, Overlap opening date/seasons more to prevent what little unit hoping there is, Use data to truly find out what is the limiting factor for deer. Is it hunting? Do we really believe that limited buck hunting (even the general tag is a limited hunt as we can use points, season dates, etc.) is the cause of the lower numbers?

I really disliked the question on what I consider a trophy... Neither Points nor spread determine the trophy for our family. It is age. Do we think the buck is 2-3 4-5 over over 6. Inches or points don't matter...

Lastly just because the unit or area goes limited does not mean that the numbers or the hunting quality will get any better. I have heard that some units that went from general to limited actually ended up with higher hunter numbers and more harvest...
 
elks96 said:
There are a ton of people who do not want to do away with general tags for residents and many of us are pretty vocal in different ways. I am against LQ for resident across the board, also against pick a region. I do believe that prior to this winter things were different, but I sure don't want to abandon the current system simply due to the winter that by all accounts was extra harsh.

I would much prefer hunting with my family every year and once every 3-4 years finding a big buck vs. my family and I sitting out several years to end up killing a 150 buck.

There are several things that can be done. Get ride of all doe hunting even for youth. Decrease harvest by NR, Overlap opening date/seasons more to prevent what little unit hoping there is, Use data to truly find out what is the limiting factor for deer. Is it hunting? Do we really believe that limited buck hunting (even the general tag is a limited hunt as we can use points, season dates, etc.) is the cause of the lower numbers?

I really disliked the question on what I consider a trophy... Neither Points nor spread determine the trophy for our family. It is age. Do we think the buck is 2-3 4-5 over over 6. Inches or points don't matter...

Lastly just because the unit or area goes limited does not mean that the numbers or the hunting quality will get any better. I have heard that some units that went from general to limited actually ended up with higher hunter numbers and more harvest...
Click to expand...

Its a very sore and difficult discussion. For where I am where the deer had a great winter our biggest issue is mountain lions and road kill. The traffic going to Yellowstone is unreal which equals a lot of road kill. on top of that you have great ranch land that the deer love and with more housing the traffic increases that which adds more roadkill. We want no doe tags. Also i am a fan of antler point restriction and give these younger bucks a chance to grow. when they run this for a year and then quit it served zero purpose. years ago the bighorns had this antler point restriction and a lot of nice bucks were around(it proved it worked ran used for several years). As soon as they cut it off things went south. Most of your hunters are road hunters and most will shoot anything from a spike to a 2x2. every region and area has a different balance of life . I don't have the perfect answer but what I do know is the game and fish is failing and I say this because the crap they want to pull with CWD is a complete joke.
 
I got one. I filled it out including the portion from UW. I have no confidence that Game and Fish (in the Cody Region) will make any changes based on the answers to the survey questions. They only seek affirmation and not input. I think mandatory harvest reporting should have been implemented 10 years ago. I think mule deer ratios and counts should be compiled by independent parties without input from wardens or regional biologists. Just sayin…mh
 
nfh said:
Its a very sore and difficult discussion. For where I am where the deer had a great winter our biggest issue is mountain lions and road kill. The traffic going to Yellowstone is unreal which equals a lot of road kill. on top of that you have great ranch land that the deer love and with more housing the traffic increases that which adds more roadkill. We want no doe tags. Also i am a fan of antler point restriction and give these younger bucks a chance to grow. when they run this for a year and then quit it served zero purpose. years ago the bighorns had this antler point restriction and a lot of nice bucks were around(it proved it worked ran used for several years). As soon as they cut it off things went south. Most of your hunters are road hunters and most will shoot anything from a spike to a 2x2. every region and area has a different balance of life . I don't have the perfect answer but what I do know is the game and fish is failing and I say this because the crap they want to pull with CWD is a complete joke.
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Gotcha. Yes different parts of the state have different issues. The areas I hunt, the biggest issues are other recreation and excessive roads and ATVs. It is hard for deer to grow to maturity when there are 1000 yard guns and roads every 600 yards.

Yes the CWD plan is wrong. Yes traffic in areas is unreal. The traffic up toward Dubois is unreal and has significant impact. Point restrictions work adjusting season lengths work, cutting NR tags was not even mentioned anywhere…

I would love to see the creation of habitat areas and large scale walking areas. Where we close roads in 6-9 square mile area making those walk-in areas through out the hunting areas. The deer simply need places wheee they can harbor.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I think many of us know it is not working now…
 
If you want to cut nonresident tags to increase the mule deer population, I understand that.

What I don’t understand is how cutting nonresident tags so residents can get more tags increases the mule deer population….

Basically, its a trade for trade.

So what is it all really about? Is it about people’s desires to see the populations of mule deer come back? Or is it mostly about just drawing more tags as a resident?

I think it’s the latter in 95% of peoples minds….just saying.
 
Mallardsx2 said:
If you want to cut nonresident tags to increase the mule deer population, I understand that.

What I don’t understand is how cutting nonresident tags so residents can get more tags increases the mule deer population….

Basically, its a trade for trade.

So what is it all really about? Is it about people’s desires to see the populations of mule deer come back? Or is it mostly about just drawing more tags as a resident?

I think it’s the latter in 95% of peoples minds….just saying.
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Depends on how you look at it. If you talk about 90/10 for resident draw, without increasing the quota in general tags you can do both. Increase draw opportunity while reducing harvest. If 90/10 were implemented as example lets say there are an additional 2000 draw licenses available to residents. That would shift 2000 residents away from the general tag, and the end result would be 2000 fewer tags.

If we are talking about cutting NR tags in general areas then it would have no impact on resident opportunity as they are general areas and all residents have that opportunity every year. As a result further reductions in NR tags in general areas would further reduce pressure on deer as well. Again not all areas are the same.

Getting a limited draw tag is a bonus, I am perfectly content hunting general tags under the current system. General tags provide flexibility, general tags provide predictability, they also (despite what many believe) provide a reasonable chance at killing a mature/quality deer.
 
Mallardsx2 said:
If you want to cut nonresident tags to increase the mule deer population, I understand that.

What I don’t understand is how cutting nonresident tags so residents can get more tags increases the mule deer population….

Basically, its a trade for trade.

So what is it all really about? Is it about people’s desires to see the populations of mule deer come back? Or is it mostly about just drawing more tags as a resident?

I think it’s the latter in 95% of peoples minds….just saying.
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The only reason I want 90/10 is so res hunters, mainly me and my family, get more tags. I think your estimate of 95% is low.
 
Again, outsider.

But I like it when my kids get surveyed in Utah. Opens another chance to discuss issues with them.

Last year one of my boys did the federal deal where they kept track of waterfowl season. He was more interested in the why instead of just the Boom.
 
I want 90/10 for better chances of the wife and I can draw a LQ tags.... While we are at it Wyoming should seriously look at cutting NR general tags in a lot of regions.....
 
hossblur said:
Again, outsider.

But I like it when my kids get surveyed in Utah. Opens another chance to discuss issues with them.

Last year one of my boys did the federal deal where they kept track of waterfowl season. He was more interested in the why instead of just the Boom.
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Yeah I don’t mind it, but the first surge of emails hit an overwhelming majority of youth. It took a while for others to show up.
 
middlefork said:
Another outsider. I haven't had a tag in Wyoming for 40 years.
Your deer population is going down hill. That's the truth.
Play all the games you want but it is not changing the realities.
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Wheee isn’t the numbers in decline? And since they are shouldn’t we do all we can to provide resident opportunity over NR?
 
I have absolutely no problem with resident opportunity. Go 100% if it makes you feel better.
At some point in time you will not have a tag.
At a certain point nobody will give $.02 about mule deer but keep alienating those that care. I'm sure it will work out.
 
middlefork said:
I have absolutely no problem with resident opportunity. Go 100% if it makes you feel better.
At some point in time you will not have a tag.
At a certain point nobody will give $.02 about mule deer but keep alienating those that care. I'm sure it will work out.
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Tell me who cares more about WY mule deer than WY residents? Not sure how advocating for decreasing NR allocations to help the mule deer will hurt mule deer in WY?
 
I got one of those surveys. Like non typical said eventually they will get the answers they want. All that's gonna happen is they are going to manage you right out of a general tag and manage to fit a historic deer herd in the outhouse. I'm curious about high fencing the major migration corridors in western Wyoming and implementing a couple of concrete box passageways. When that first happened on hwy 30 tons of deer died a long the fence the next winter.
 
I would have selected almost any other answer besides "would you like to see late season hunts that kill older age class bucks to combat cwd?" That's not exactly what it said but it sure seems like it's what G&F wants.
I'm also against losing the general tag for resident hunters. From what I've seen buck to doe ratios and good to go. I personally have been very selective in my buck harvests only harvesting older bucks 2 in the last 5 years. I think this is quite common among resident hunters. I also identify as a trophy hunter which could be exceptional antlers or an old buck.
 
Buck to doe ratios are good in Western wyoming but not everywhere. The whole reason hunters aren't satisfied in general is not because they weren't seeing enough does they aren't allowed to shoot 90% of the time anyway. Their not satisfied because they aren't seeing enough bucks or not enough legal bucks or not enough trophy bucks. Something will have to give I don't feel the need to hunt mule deer every year if it means a better quality hunt when I do hunt
 
Bookhead said:
Buck to doe ratios are good in Western wyoming but not everywhere. The whole reason hunters aren't satisfied in general is not because they weren't seeing enough does they aren't allowed to shoot 90% of the time anyway. Their not satisfied because they aren't seeing enough bucks or not enough legal bucks or not enough trophy bucks. Something will have to give I don't feel the need to hunt mule deer every year if it means a better quality hunt when I do hunt
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When you cut tag#, you cut the funding for gf. Biologists ain't getting cheaper. Trucks ain't cheaper. Gas ain't cheaper.

So to provide the same service, the budget has to be made up.

Look south to see how that goes. The outfitters association is drooling at the thought of residents creating a vaccum they can step into.

We cut tags in Utah by 2/3, and to make up budgets we got $fw and over 500 auction tags.

Once you give up clout and power of large hunter population, you'll never get it back. You'll keep losing more and more tags, and the corporate hunting industry will get more of a grip on control because.... Money talks
 
Bookhead said:
Buck to doe ratios are good in Western wyoming but not everywhere. The whole reason hunters aren't satisfied in general is not because they weren't seeing enough does they aren't allowed to shoot 90% of the time anyway. Their not satisfied because they aren't seeing enough bucks or not enough legal bucks or not enough trophy bucks. Something will have to give I don't feel the need to hunt mule deer every year if it means a better quality hunt when I do hunt
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Haha. You assume that when they limit resident hunters they will
Make the hunting better? I am certain there are areas where that when they went limited they are not any better then when they were general.
 
elks96 said:
Haha. You assume that when they limit resident hunters they will
Make the hunting better? I am certain there are areas where that when they went limited they are not any better then when they were general.
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Like where?
 
But all those areas are better then the general area's surrounding them now as far as deer population goes
 
jm77 said:
That's the past. All those areas are going downhill to the point of pathetic in 34, 87 & 90. Limited Quota is no solution anymore.
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Probably be allot worse if everyone with a hunter safety card and a rifle could shoot every fork horn and 2x3 and spike every year too
 
Bookhead said:
Probably be allot worse if everyone with a hunter safety card and a rifle could shoot every fork horn and 2x3 and spike every year too
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Not at all. Sorry but the point has been proven. Going limited does not mean it will be any better.

Also when you go limited you actually increase the pressure to fill the tag. People are way more likely to shoot a dink 2-3 point on the last day of a limited tag. If you only get a tag every few years, then when you get you will be filling it. On the flip side when you can get a deer tag every year and general there is way less pressure to fill the tag. Seen it in Colorado all the time. Everyone who drew a tag hunted hard for 3 days then Tuesday was “two point Tuesday” because guys only get a tag every couple year.

The more limited you make the hunt the more actual pressure there is to fill the tag at all cost.

Again there are several general units that are better than LQ. There are several units they were better as general units than when they went LQ. The more you shift to LQ the more pressure on on all to fill tags…
 
I want to say that unit 36 when it went limited they actually were offering more tags for hunting g than the number of people who actually hunted when it was general. If it was not 36 then 34… but it was funny, they went limited and then turned around and gave out more tags than people who ever hunted it under the general.
 
elks96 said:
Not at all. Sorry but the point has been proven. Going limited does not mean it will be any better.

Also when you go limited you actually increase the pressure to fill the tag. People are way more likely to shoot a dink 2-3 point on the last day of a limited tag. If you only get a tag every few years, then when you get you will be filling it. On the flip side when you can get a deer tag every year and general there is way less pressure to fill the tag. Seen it in Colorado all the time. Everyone who drew a tag hunted hard for 3 days then Tuesday was “two point Tuesday” because guys only get a tag every couple year.

The more limited you make the hunt the more actual pressure there is to fill the tag at all cost.

Again there are several general units that are better than LQ. There are several units they were better as general units than when they went LQ. The more you shift to LQ the more pressure on on all to fill tags…
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The only general areas that are better then limited quota on public are the Grey's River areas in my opinion and I've hunted most of them either myself or with other people.
 
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And the worst part is allot of the general areas in central and eastern wy have really good genetics but bucks can't reach a decent age on public land 99% percent of the time because the hunting pressure is pretty much unlimited.
 
JM77 and Buzz laughed when I said that 90/10 was dead for a while after they bumped the nonres fees.

I stand by what I said, nonres are giving too much money after the tag raises to cut NR licenses. WYOGA will now say, well to make up the money from cutting NR tags, residents will have to pay too much. They are corrupt. They don't care about res or nonres.

JM77 and Buzz may disagree. But you watch, 90/10 is not happening anytime soon.
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
JM77 and Buzz laughed when I said that 90/10 was dead for a while after they bumped the nonres fees.

I stand by what I said, nonres are giving too much money after the tag raises to cut NR licenses. WYOGA will now say, well to make up the money from cutting NR tags, residents will have to pay too much. They are corrupt. They don't care about res or nonres.

JM77 and Buzz may disagree. But you watch, 90/10 is not happening anytime soon.
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Reason it won't happen, $ Residents alone could not support the budget of Wyoming. And Game and Fish in any State does not listen. They have their agenda. and they don't care what residents think!......................BULL
 
All the comments in this and other topics about 90/10, I was curious what percentage of the WYG&F budget came from NR deer tags, so I did the math.

For 2023, WYG&F budget is $99MM.

Using the tag numbers provided by JM77 above, there were about 50,000 resident deer tags sold at $42 each, or $2.1MM.

Using the same numbers for NR's, there were about 20,000 tags sold at a minimum of $374 each, or $7.5MM. Note special tags would increase this total.

A 90/10 split would reduce NR tags by about 15,000, or about $5.6MM. It's not a huge part of the annual budget, but not insignificant either.

To make up the difference from the R tags, price would go up from $42 to $155. Probably some backlash within the 50,000 residents over that.

And no, I'm not an accountant, but an engineer, and engineers like numbers! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

And I'm sure if I got something wrong in my calculations, someone will correct me. And no hard feelings if someone does. :)
 
Joe2Kool said:
All the comments in this and other topics about 90/10, I was curious what percentage of the WYG&F budget came from NR deer tags, so I did the math.

For 2023, WYG&F budget is $99MM.

Using the tag numbers provided by JM77 above, there were about 50,000 resident deer tags sold at $42 each, or $2.1MM.

Using the same numbers for NR's, there were about 20,000 tags sold at a minimum of $374 each, or $7.5MM. Note special tags would increase this total.

A 90/10 split would reduce NR tags by about 15,000, or about $5.6MM. It's not a huge part of the annual budget, but not insignificant either.

To make up the difference from the R tags, price would go up from $42 to $155. Probably some backlash within the 50,000 residents over that.

And no, I'm not an accountant, but an engineer, and engineers like numbers! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

And I'm sure if I got something wrong in my calculations, someone will correct me. And no hard feelings if someone does. :)
Click to expand...
Your math isn't close...90/10 would not cause a single tag reduction in NR region tags.

It would only apply to limited quota tags in the initial draw.

Your math is horrendous.
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
JM77 and Buzz laughed when I said that 90/10 was dead for a while after they bumped the nonres fees.

I stand by what I said, nonres are giving too much money after the tag raises to cut NR licenses. WYOGA will now say, well to make up the money from cutting NR tags, residents will have to pay too much. They are corrupt. They don't care about res or nonres.

JM77 and Buzz may disagree. But you watch, 90/10 is not happening anytime soon.
Click to expand...
How did that prediction work out for you with moose, sheep, goat, and bison?
 
BuzzH said:
How did that prediction work out for you with moose, sheep, goat, and bison?
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I never predicted it on moose sheep and goat. WYOGA, who runs your life still knew some res would want guides for these 3 species. Put your money where your mouth is Buzz, you know dang well it's not happening soon.

If you're so confident it will happen, when will it happen? ?
 
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schoolhousegrizz said:
I never predicted it on moose sheep and goat. WYOGA, who runs your life still knew some res would want guides for these 3 species. Put your money where your mouth is Buzz, you know dang well it's not happening soon.

If you're so confident it will happen, when will it happen? ?
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Time and pressure. Lots of pissed off residents not drawing tags right now...just the catalyst it may take.
 
BuzzH said:
Your math isn't close...90/10 would not cause a single tag reduction in NR region tags.

It would only apply to limited quota tags in the initial draw.

Your math is horrendous.
Click to expand...
Hmmm. :unsure: My math is correct. My understanding of 90/10 is what is horrendous

If I understand your response correctly, there would be no reduction in General tags, only limited quota tags. So how many LQ NR tags are there now? And how many would there be with 90/10?

Then I'll do the math with the correct numbers! :):)
 
Joe2Kool said:
Hmmm. :unsure: My math is correct. My understanding of 90/10 is what is horrendous

If I understand your response correctly, there would be no reduction in General tags, only limited quota tags. So how many LQ NR tags are there now? And how many would there be with 90/10?

Then I'll do the math with the correct numbers! :):)
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Correct all the region wide NR general tags would remain the same.

Current split is 80-20 for LQ deer. I had the numbers at one time, I don't remember for sure. You could look at the draw odds report and figure it out. Keep in mind any undersubscribed resident LQ tags drop to NR's in the initial draw and the leftover draw is open to anyone.

I think the revenue lose for deer going 90-10 was maybe a million. I had calculated raising fishing licenses $10 would have covered the deer revenue lost going 90-10.
 
Send an email to [email protected] and ask for the "quota split" report for 2023 Deer. Convert the pdf back into a spreadsheet and have at it.
Your report will look like the one below but for Deer.

Untitled.jpg
 
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Joe2Kool said:
All the comments in this and other topics about 90/10, I was curious what percentage of the WYG&F budget came from NR deer tags, so I did the math.

For 2023, WYG&F budget is $99MM.

Using the tag numbers provided by JM77 above, there were about 50,000 resident deer tags sold at $42 each, or $2.1MM.

Using the same numbers for NR's, there were about 20,000 tags sold at a minimum of $374 each, or $7.5MM. Note special tags would increase this total.

A 90/10 split would reduce NR tags by about 15,000, or about $5.6MM. It's not a huge part of the annual budget, but not insignificant either.

To make up the difference from the R tags, price would go up from $42 to $155. Probably some backlash within the 50,000 residents over that.

And no, I'm not an accountant, but an engineer, and engineers like numbers! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

And I'm sure if I got something wrong in my calculations, someone will correct me. And no hard feelings if someone does. :)
Click to expand...
And what happens if we just increase the remaining NR tags prices as well. Say another $150 for a NR tag each species? Then I bet NR tags cost don’t need to move…
 
WG&F could make raise NR fishing license and triple the price of NR doe fawn antelope and doe fawn deer tags $34 dollars is dirt cheap....
 

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J & J Outfitters

Offering quality fair-chase hunts for trophy mule deer, elk, and moose in Wyoming.


Yellowstone Horse Rentals - Western Wyoming Horses
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