Nightforce VS. Huskemaw

slamdunk

slamdunk

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I made a thread a few months ago about turning a Leupold scope into a tactical tool for my Weatherby.

Now after actually getting to use a top notch tactical scope (Nightforce) on a recent guiding trip, i have decided to buy a scope intended for this purpose instead of modifying an existing one into something it's not.

let's hear your thoughts on the two brands and help me make a decision.

Thanks in advance!!! :)







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lets hear about your experience with the nightforce! i hear they are great but never used one! i was thinking about buying the husk but i dont know???
 
Nightforce, time tested and proven. It also has top quality components. Huskemaw, new scope, not proven, cheaper parts. It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.
 
I originally started purchasing tactical scopes starting out cheap and working up. Here's what I found. First, swarovski hands down has the absolute best optics and the absolute worst mechanics. The dry fired swarovski will move about 1/8 to 1/4 inch at 100 yards due to bad mechanical design. However the glass is the most awesome out there. I tried all brands of swarovski until the people at Mcmillan arms told me swarovski is the worst scope in relation to mechanical malfunction, aka recoil resistance and return to zero capability. Next I tried Leupold. The leupold seems clear but when put next a swarovski or a nightforce the glass becomes extremely foggy. Opics are horrid compared to those two. Also, on the leupold the return to zero was non-existent. If you engage a target at extreme ranges and have to return to zero it's not going to happen. You will get kinda close but not exact. After several different target engagements you will find that you are getting way off and must re-zero the scope. Burris xtr and burris black diamond scopes have some of the best return to zero but need re-zeroed after a month of heavy long range engagement. Zeiss conquest are again top notch for return to zero. Only need re-zeroed every couple months from heavy usage on long range targets. The down-side to burris and zeiss is that again, they are inferior as compared to the swarovski optical clarity. Now for nightforce. I have 4 5.5-22 X 56 NXS scopes. These scopes have the most vertical travel of almost any scope out there meaning you can dial in at further distances. I have zeroed the nighforce once on my 50bmg and have never touched it since. I crank that scope 150 clicks in one direction multiple times a day. When I'm done I put it back on zero and can center punch the x ring at 300 yards everytime. The nightforce also has amazing optics. They are comparable to swarovski, but not as good. The nightforce is a very clear optic but is just one clarity step under swaro's. Most people can't tell the difference unless they spend a lot of time shooting both. The only other scope that may be better is the schmidt and bender PM II. That scope is 2 to 3 times as much as a nightforce. I havent been able to tell a difference in the clarity, but I'm just partial no my nightforce I guess. I also can't see the PMII being able to do any better than the nightforce at longrange engagement with respect to return to zero. So take it for what its worth. Last thing to consider is the $1500 price tag for a nightforce. zeiss runs about $1000, and the burris xtr can be brought in for about $750 at midway in the highest end scope they make. As for swarovski and leupold, You will have serious problems with them in the long run and will get frustrated in the end if you will be hunting a ranges over 1000 yards. The scope is usually the weak link on any tactical weapon built for precision. Just my two cents.
As for Huskemaw????? Never heard of them.




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When I die I'm leaving this world the same way I came in.......Accidentally!
 
Excellent info Stinkster, thank you!!
I sure was impressed with your nightforces Tony, nothing short of "WOW"!!

Huskemaw touts a good scope and people seem to really like them, not too mention thay are several hundred dollars cheaper.
But hey....that's why they make "layaway", right?? Lol






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which marines are we talking about. The finnish marines and canadian marine snipers would be who I'd believe. I mean seriously now. We put our marines in the field with m82a1 barrets as sniping rifles, not just anti material rifles. Those guns are guaranteed from the factory to do no better than 2" at 100 yds aka 2moa. Let me tell you from personal experience that those guns suck as precision weapons. Any "older version" cheytac 408, or tac50 macmillan, will run circles round those guns any day. The Canadian snipers also swear by these scopes. And yes the PMII's are the bomb but all you are really buying is a name. Yes they are a little clearer, but not that much. Not much more than that, unless you figure shooting an extra 30 seconds later(as compared to the nightforce), which is way past legal shooting light anyways, as being worth and extra 2k.
read the following article. This is why I bought the 50 I did and set it up with the nightforce nxs. Way cool.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/50calibre/50sniping.htm




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When I die I'm leaving this world the same way I came in.......Accidentally!
 
I was told by the guy from Huskamaw that the huskamaw scope is made by the same manufacture as Nightforce.

I disagree with stinkystomper on the Leupolds. I have a Leupold VXIII.I had leupold install a BDC M1 target turret. I'm going on my 3rd year with this gun and my second animal killed in excess of 500 yds. This scope has always returned to 0 with 5/8 inch MOA groups at 100 yds. I have had no problems whatsoever.

I have also heard nothing but good things about the NF and huskamaw scopes but for the money the leupold can't be beat.

Mike
 
The only leupold that compares with the nf is the mark4. MY mark4 returns to zero every time. I have it set up to hit at 1000 yards and it will return to my zero at 100 yards as quick as you can turn the dial. In my opinion the us optics are the best but who can afford 3 grand for a scope. I think the two best scopes out there for your money are the mark4 and nf, they are both time tested and proven and with great waranties.
 
Ok, Now I'm curious. What the heck is a huskemaw? and how long have they been around. According to the us marine snipers that I've talked to the only scopes they want on their rifles are the following, US optics, Horus vision, Nightforce, and Schmidt and Bender PMII. So where the heck does hushemaw fall in comparison to these top scopes? Do they keep up? try to keep up? Or fall way short?

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-08 AT 09:43PM (MST)[p]Huskemaw are used by the "best of the west" crew. Don't know a lot about them. My buddy has one and seems to really like it though.

Ironically, I handled a Nightforce today, and am saving my pennies. Tired of destroying Leupolds.
 
Stinky, good stuff.

Personally I hate shooting. I liken it to cutting bait and not fishing, but, I know I have to try to stay sharp.

In the back I have a 100, 200 and a 300 yard target.

I bought my HS precision rifle as my rifle for everything. I bought at the time the top of the line 2x10 Leoupold ($800 holy crap) long story short, shot 10 rounds out of the brand new rifle and could not figure out why the scope would not adjust correctly.

Long story short, my neighbor that shoots a ton sent the scope back to leoupold and they rebuilt the piece of crap and sent it back to me. What a joke. Also dial from 2-10 and it still shoots different.

Next 22-250 thought I would avoid all that and get the Burris that you can mechanically lock in the adjustment.

Brand New scope on a puny 22-250 same crap, sent that scope back they rebuilt it and still same problems.

i used to think it was me, until my neighbor showed me that most of these high dollar scopes are junk. (in my opinion Leoupold and burris are high dollar) I may buy a night force in the future.

I wont be shooting 1000 yards, but, There are occasions that I will take a 500 yard shot if I have a good rest and I dont want to worry about my scope shooting different because I dial it up.

Like I said I would rather fish than cut bait, so I hate shooting, worse thing is tuning in a Muzzle Loader that is the worse for eating up time.

What does a variable Night Force in like a 3x9 or 3x10 go for?
 
The huskamaw was designed and built by hunters for hunting. The glass they use is night force quality. I like there dial on the scope better than my leupold.I believe The huskamaw has been around less than two years.Prior to huskamaw, the guys from "best of the west" were using leupolds with custom reticles and turrets.I have followed these guys from there humble beginings and to say they eat drink and sleep long range hunting is an understatement.They knew what they were doing when they built this scope.

Mike
 
I'VE NEVER HANDLED A HUSKEMAW???

WE NEED MORE INFO!!!

ANYBODY PERSONALLY OWNED & COMPARED THE NIGHTFORCE & THE HUSKEMAW???

THIS IS IMPORTANT $HIT!!!

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
LOOKS LIKE IT MIGHT BE LESS MONEY THAN A NIGHTFORCE???

BUT I DIDN'T SEE MANY CHOICES?

http://www.longrangestore.com/product_p/100100nov.htm

LOOKS LIKE IT TAKES A 500.00 DEPOSIT TO EVEN GET ONE ORDERED???

IF THE MORE MONEY SCOPE IS BETTER/TOUGHER I'LL OPT TO SPEND MORE???

ANYBODY KNOW FOR SURE???


THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Good information guys.

I have been looking hard at the Leupold Mark 4. I currently have a 4.5-14 VX-III with B&C reticle. The reticle is close but not exact at all the yardages. I was fully prepared to buy the Mark 4 but now not so sure. I can't hardly believe a Leupold won't hold zero!!!

I thought the Huskemaw was reasonably priced if it is a good quality scope but everyone I talked to at the gun shops say it is overpriced.

Does anyone know anything about Nikon Monarch X?
http://www.nikonhunting.com/riflescopes-monarch-x-4-16x50.html


Do etched glass reticles hold their zero better?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-11-08 AT 09:38AM (MST)[p]Well lets put this in perspective. The US military uses a lot of Nightforce scopes. They are about the toughest scope built. They are literally built like a tank when compared to other scopes. Their optics are fantastic and they have very reliable turret adjustments. It they are good enough for me than have their lives literally depending on them, then they are more than good enough for hunting. I've used Nightforces and Leupold Mark 4's a lot. Many times in side by side comparisons. The Leupold Mark 4 is a very good scope, the NXS is better. It just plain is. Now as to the Huskemaw...anyone want to bet the military will be using it anytime soon? Bet they never even sniff in its direction.
 
I have shot a few rifles equipped with Nightforce scopes, and I absolutely loved them. If I could afford one, I would have one in a heartbeat.

Also, I know quite a few police marksmen/snipers that have Nightforce scopes on their sniper rifles, and swear by them.

I dont think you would be at all disappointed in purchasing one.
 
I tried a leupold mark IV. I sent it back because of mechanical malfunctions, They sent me a different one, I sent that one back, They sent me one more. I sent that one back as well and got my money back. That 50 BMG ate up everything I put on it. I bought 3 different swarovski scopes and sent them back as well due to lack of sub 3moa groups in a rifle I knew was capable of sub 1/2moa. I finally broke down and put a nightforce on it. Never have touched that scope since. I tried every scope I used to swear by. All failed me.

NMRECLUSE: A nightforce is a nightforce, They range from $1300 for the lower power to $1600 for the higher power. The highest power scopes(42X) are a little cheaper though. I would stay away from them. The scope everyone wants is the 5.5-22 X 56mm scope. You can custom order from over 20 or more reticles. Not sure how many they have but its a bunch. Nightforce rules.
The 50mm and 56mm scopes are about the same price. The 56mm scopes have tons more clarity and light gathering capabilities. They are all 30mm.

Slam: all nightforce bases are made to fit a rem. 700 action. A remington 700 long action is the same as a wby mag action. So feel free to buy any night force base and mount it on your 30-378 wby.

SS


SS







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Stinkystomper, we are on the same page as far as NXS scopes go. Betcha that Huskemama would go belly up in less than hundred rounds out of your .50.
 
Ok that settles it.....Nightforce scope or open sights for me....nothing in between will do.

Way to go Stinky, break my bank will ya!! ;-)
(i hate peer pressure!!)






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Slam,
Stinky told me on the sly that he just wanted you to spend all of that tip money he paid you ($12.50) buying a fancy scope and that those "Nightforce" scopes he has on his guns are really just made by Hasbro. Don't fall for it!!
 
I am shooting the huskemaw and absolutly love. But it is the only long range scope i have used and this is the first year i have hunted with it. I have shot a bear at 500 yards,and a doe antelope at 900 yars, a buck antelope at 820 yards , and a mule der at 50 yards with my huskemaw. All I know is I range the target with a leica range finder dial the turet and shoot and it works every time and so fare it has always zerod back to 200 yards.
 
lowcountryelk-

Stinky told you he tipped me $12.50???
I can't beleive he'd lie like that knowing it would hit the internet, all i saw was a crisp $10 bill!!

You just watch, i'll get that other $2.50 out of that cheap scate one way or the other!! ;-)










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alot of the top target shooters use nightforce scopes. would think if the huskemaw was in the same league they would be used by the target shooting guys.i sure would like to see some of the top end scopes compared by someone who didn't sell them. ce61
 
Im an average guy. I don't even shoot competitively. I probably could. Im just an average hunter and won't use anything but a nightforce until it fails. I thought my night force failed me in africa this year. Then a buddy went to take my weatherby from my reluctant hands and the barrel began to uunscrew. We tightened the barrel back down with a 24 inch pipe wrench and started shooting sub moa groups again. I gave that scope n gun enough abuse to unthread the barrel. funny that the scope never came apart. The guy who found the problem trains seal team 6 for sandia ntl labs in albuquerque nm. so yeah. I got a witness! as fore huskywhat scopes? not on my guns. Also, guys hear antelope getting killed at 900 yards is the scope... not really. at tha distance u have to have a scope and bullets punching less than 2 inch groups at 400 yards. that's an accurate gun. most people don't think about group sizes in those situations. much less mirage etc....
 
clifhunter, wouldn't a target shooter want a very clear scope, a scope that returns to zero after you adjust up or down, or right or left for windage? wouldn't a hunter want the same, clarity and reliability???? EVEN THE AVERAGE GUY, wouldn't he want the same, clarity and reliability. I THINK SO........ce61
 
NIGHTFORCE is the only way to go. Its proven, durable, accurate, easy to use, takes out all the guess work, and can out do every other scope in the west. Yes, it is a tactical scope, but what is the difference between hunting down people in the military vs critters in the wild? It is just as hard to do both, so why not use a scope that is proven in hunting down people in the military? Yes, the Marines use to use the Shmidt and Bender, but are now looking into the Nightforce, and some units already use the Nightforce. I have never missed a shot nor, second guessed myself with this scope.

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So for you guys that use nightforce what data do you need to send to NF to get a turret made for your specific rifle and load.

Mike
 
Are you freakin kidding me. Only stupid people need a custom made turret. Heck, that would get really freakin expensive. Every time I change bullets with a different BC I need to order a different turret. Everytime I add 2000 feet in altitude and my bullet speeds up 150 fps I need a different turret. Every time I change my loads and increase or decrease my velocities I need a different turret. Man your right, I better go out and purchase a husywhat? I will get one tomorrow. I will save an extra $10,000 and purchase the 1000 or so different turrets I need. Honestly though. A turret is a complete waste of money. What you need is a smart phone and Nightforce mobile software. It usually takes me less than one minute to lookup the adjustment needed and dial it in on my scope. If you only have one load you shoot then you can use a knife or etching tool to mark the yardages on your turret. I actually did this on my first nightforce. I marked yardages out to 1200 yards in 20 yard increments. I then did the same for the windage. It's not very hard. A first grader could do that in less than 20 minutes. In my opinion I wouldn't waste the time on a turret. It's pretty worthless. It's just a sales gimmick by those outwest guys. If you shoot long range enough and know anything about ballistics you will soon find this out for yourself. There's a reason the marines aren't using these scopes. It's the same reson they never took much of a liking to the horus vision scopes. Good idea, just not practical. Just another sales gimmick.

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Stinky is a little under the weather today, don't take his "bark" as a bite.
He's actally more inclined to pee on your leg than bite ya. Lol

"Practical and easy" for most of us isn't going out and purchasing a smart phone and software to use while hunting.

As for ME....i'd want a scope that if i range my target at 800yds, i simply twist my knob to whatever my load is calibrated at, and squeeze my trigger.

THAT to me is "practical and simple". :)

Pardon my ignorance (i'm still learning), but can't the nighforce work this way as well Tony...i'm now confused.






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I normally respond to dumb questions with dumb answers, but since I've met you and know where your coming from I will answer this question.


ROFP(not laughin much today you figure out the P, yes im under the weather)

Sorry to sound rude with everyone. But the answer is.............Uh....... yes you can. Here's what you do. Figure out what your shooting at. If its deer then consider point blank as 6". Coyotes would be 3". That means wherever you are aiming you will hit worst case 6" high or low for deer and 3" high or low for a yote. Then you use a ballistics program of any sort. figure out the zero for each range you want. lets say you want to shoot an elk at 900 yards. The ballistics table would show that if you zero your gun at 900 yards that at 930 yards you would be 6" low and at 870 yards you would be 6" high. Therefore you would make a mark on your turret that specifies 870 to 930(this means its a point blank of 900), and yes I used point blank a little skewedly for those of you more concerned with vocabulary. You can do this for every range you want. And yes you can order extra turrets for a nightforce. I got 3 separate turrets with mine. It only takes about 30 seconds to change one out so if this is how you swing you could make a turret for each load. I stay away from this since I shoot a differnt load for every animal on earth. If anyone seriously ever needs help with this, shoot me your bullets bc, sight-in distance, velocity, and wieght of bullet, and type and I will tell you how many clicks for what yards. Make minor marks on your turrets, verify in the field and then make the permanent marks.

Sorry for any negative sounding comments. I always mean to sound sarcastic so if they seem serious just ignore them.

SS

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Ok guys, some of you obviously have never used a nightforce scope. It is so simple, yet you guys make it sound so difficult.
The 'turret' as you are calling it on top of the scope goes from 0-8 and keeps rotating to 1 revolution =+1,2,3 ect. So you can go one complete revolution and make it +1 complete revolution back to 0 click ect. Staying with me?
This 'turret' raises your crosshairs so you are able to make revolution 'clicks' up to aim dead on at whatever range you want. For example...
My 300 win mag is zeroed at 200 yards or 1.2 click so at 200 yards I 'click my turret' to 1.2 and aim dead on. Now if a critter is at 300 yards with my .300 win mag, I click up to 3.0 on my Turret and aim dead on. Now with my .300 the bullet really drops between 4-500 yards, so I have to 'click my turret' up to #8.0 click and aim dead on. Their is no holding over or anything once you figure out how high you need to click the scope up per 100 yards and aim dead on. Look at my rifle, you will see the 'turret is set at 1.2 for 200 yards. If my critters at 300 yards I just click it to the right to #3. Now this is just the specs on my rifle. A .270 may only drop for 1.2 click at 200 yards to the #2 click at 300 yards, you need to see on your own rifle.
Here is a pic
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The knob on the right is for windage, the knob on the left is for focusing depending on what power you are on. Helps with clarity. Top knob or turret is for distance.
 
When I filmed the world championship 50bmg shooters at Raton a year ago, Nightforce was definitely the recommended scope with the Leupy Mk4 being the recommendation for shooters on a budget. Looking over the Huskemaws, to me they look like a cheap import. That being said I had a leupold on my 50 bmg and took it off. I decided to try a sub $300 Nighteater scope. The ones imported by the same company that does Howa rifles. I figured it would be toast within 10 rounds. I've shot several hundred rounds with that scope on it and it's holding zero still but it doesn't have near the optics of a top dollar scope.

If you want some fun take your 50 and a bunch of tracer ammo bunny hunting in the snow. Fun for yotes too. Looks like Star Wars. Just don't do it on public land or when things are dry.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-12-08 AT 02:14PM (MST)[p]the side turret isn't for clarity. It's to adjust out the paralax. Thats when the crosshair seems to move on the target as your head moves around. When the scope is dialed in to be the clearest you have actually dialed out any paralax problems.

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-12-08 AT 06:21PM (MST)[p]Nobody on here that has bashed the Huskamaw has even used one. Yes, nightforce has been around along time but the the engineering and design of the huskamaw is as good as any out there. The glass is a huge step above leupold and very comparable to NF. What sets Huskmaw apart from all the rest is the scope is built 100% for hunting applications. You dial the yardage and shoot whereas with the NF you dial "X" amount of clicks to reach a desired yardage. The same is true for the windage. I'm not bashing NF I just don't think it has some key advantages for hunting that the Huskamaw has. For tatical and competetion shooting the NF may have a slight advantage, but for hunting where you have to acquire your target fast and shoot, the Huskamaw is the way to go.I'm just saying with the huskamaw there is zero in the field math or memorizing clicks. Before you make a decsion call Aaron with Gunwerks aka best of the west. I'd wager a steak dinner he'd change your mind or at least make you see both sides. Also check out their website and watch the video on their shooting system.

http://www.thebestofthewest.net/component/option,com_seyret/Itemid,47/lang,en/
 
I thought that went without saying. Clarification... when shooting long distances, the PARALLAX CLARITY AJUSTMENT, can drastically improve accuracy when shooting at long distances. For most people.. past 200 yards. It produces clarity on the crosshairs so you do not have parallax issues. Most other scopes do not have this function.
 
Sorry bowhunt, was just clearing up that issue.

cabinfever: if you want ease of use go buy a shepard scope. You don't have to mess with dialing the scope at all. most yardages are built into the scope. You custom order a scope for the exact bullet you shoot and when you look in the scope you put the yardage crosshair on the target you want to hit. People just like the reliability of the proven scopes. Kinda like nightforce. If huskemaw wants a reputation quit trying to gouge people with a $1000 price tag. You kinda need to earn a reputation first. In addition, the horus vision would make all scopes obsolete with their reticle if instant bullet placement was what people are wanting. Well it isn't, they want a scope that has 100% recoil and shock proof guarantees for life period. Earn that as a reputation and you have a great scope in the making.

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HEY PUNK???

DO I NEED TO HAVE A CHAT WITH MS PUNK & HINT TO HER WHAT WOULD MAKE AN AWESOME CHRISTMAS PRESENT???



THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
stinkystomper

I do not like the yardages marks built into the scope reticle. While they work good for some people, I'm not a fan. A guy could get easily excited and use the wrong mark.

As for Huskamaw trying to gouge people, I aint seeing it. Just because a product doesn't have decades of history doesn't mean it can't be excellent it's 1st year in production. 95% of all the top selling rifle scopes get their glass out of japan. Even swarovski get's some of their glass out of japan not to mention the scopes are built in Japan. The guys from best of the west simply contracted one of the best manufatures to build there scopes with the features they requested. The Huskamaw scope is being built by manufactures who have been building scopes for a long time.

Incidently NightForce has only been around since 1992 but I'd wager they knew what they were doing before that 1st scope came off the line

I have yet to hear someone who has used the huskamaw give it anythink but a high marks.

One last thing. Huskamaw offers features that are simply not offered on any other scope.They didn't just wake up one morning and decide to do knock off of the nightforce and charge the same price. These guys started out buying leupolds and than having premier reticle install a custom reticle and custom turret.Once leupold caught on to what they were doing and that it was profitable they jumped on the band wagon.At this point,Best of the West realized they wanted a scope with higher resolution with their own custom reticles and turrets, hence, the Huskamaw was born.
 
cabinfever, you think the clarity of a huskemaw is better than a leupold and as good as a NF?? where are huskemaws built anyhow?? ce61
 
Ok cabinfever. I'll make you a deal. I'll buy a huskemaw if you will contract with me to drill an oil well. Sound fair? Point is.... I'm not trying to sell my services am I? I could be, but I'm not. You don't like the ticks in the reticle and others don't like custom turrets. Everyone is different. I'll give you a different option when trying to sell me a scope. You tell me what a 3 dimensional fourier transform is and how it relates to your scope. If you come up with the right answer I will buy a scope directly from you within the month. Sound fair? If husemaw scopes are that great then you should be able to give me more info on 3d fourier's than I care to hear about. That will prove you know at least a little bit about building a scope.

SS





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$100 says he's googling it right now. You just had to bring math into it huh... ;-) You must be good at Algorithims and such... Nice... ;-)
 
Holy crap, guess i opened up a can of worms with this one!! Lol

All good info!

After actually using A nightforce on Stinky's .50 BMG, it didn't take much effort or time to realize this is on my bucket list.

I love watching "The Best Of The West" and have seriously been toying with the idea of buying the Huskemaw because it was more in my price range.

But hey....that's why they invented "lay away"....right?? ;-)









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I have been using the Huskemaw scope and it's a great scope for the price thinking about buying another one for a new .243.I have shot a 50 topped with a NightForce very clear nice scopes just more money.
 
Isn't the huskemaw about $1100? The nightforce scopes go anywhere from $1200 to $1550. When your spending more than a grand is $100 to $400 really that much more?

Just curious.

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GEEZUS PUNK!!!

YOU'VE REALLY RUFFLED SOME FEATHERS,LOL!!!

DO I NEED TO CALL & MAKE A HINT TO MS PUNK???

CHRISTMAS TIME IS COMMIN,CHRISTMAS TIMES A COMMIN!!!

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
47654abd5a8fd79a.jpg


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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Let me add one more thing. If you guys watch best of the west and think that is all there is to it you have no business shooting past 800 yards on inclines over 20 degrees. You CANNOT shoot at extended ranges without ballistic software. Punch in a 30 degree angle at 1000 yards on say a 338 lapua magnum and then punch in a 25 degree angle on the same shot. What is the difference? 210.2 inches of drop with a 25 degree angle on your shot and 198.7 inches of drop at 30 degrees. That is plus or minus an elk. You MUST have an angle degree indicator along with a windmeter along with a ballistics software program. If you don't and you have a huskemaw scope you better make darn sure you are on absolutely flat ground. I made the above calculations with nightforce software on a 338 lapua magnum shooting a 250 grain bullet at 3000 fps. That bullet doesn't have a lot of drop with a BC of 0.768. Not many bullets are that flat and I guarantee any 300 RUM or 7mm out there will drop like a rock as compared to the round I used above. Plain and simple. Buy a huskemaw and severly limit yourself on longrange shots. I may take a little more time with my shots, but when I do pull the trigger I know 100% exactly where my bullet will hit +/- 6 inches out to 1200 yards. If I don't have 100% confidence I don't shoot. Slam, where did that 750 grain amax bullet hit on that 1ft diameter bush at 1200 yards on the first shot.????

I rest my case!

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-08 AT 07:18PM (MST)[p]While I'm thinking about it......
How many turrets does that mean you will need for just one load.

You will need one turret for your favorite load, (which won't work for a different bullet), on flat inclines out to 1000 yards at angles between 0 and 20 degrees.
On top of that you need a turret for each of the angle inclinations... 20, 25, 30, 35, 38, 40, 42, 44, 46, 48, 50.

That should just about cover you for most deer, elk, moose and any other non sheep game in North america. If you plan on hunting sheep you will definitely need to go on out to 70 degree angle shots. That would mean you need to have at least 12 turrets for most animals and another 12 on top of that to hunt sheep. Lets not forget the allen wrenches in the field plus the extra time needed to change the turret. Seems like a bad idea if you ask me?????? Now, why doesn't the military go with huskemaw??? The complete and total fundamental thinking behind the entire scope is so shot full of holes its not even funny. Go hire a sniper and maybe an optical engineer or two the next time you try to build a scope. Maybe the stupid will buy it but thats an awfully small market. It would be a large market right now but I don't believe many obama supporters hunt.? ROFL!

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-08 AT 09:47PM (MST)[p]I dont see it being that difficult!!! best of the west uses all the same crap while they are hunting. maybe not the I phone, 900 yards and a 38 degree angle? ya they do the math! and make ajustments accordingly without changing the turret


Nightforce may be a better scope, but if you dont know how to use it it dont mean Jack! I dont really care either way! ill bet i could buy both and get the same results! but it would take time and practice on both parts.


but then again what the hell do i know? i shoot a tasco from wal mart
 
LOL dryboot!!!

ONCE UPON A TIME ME & PUNK THOUGHT OUR LEUPOLDS WERE NICE,LOL!!!

BUT THEN COMES ALONG stinky!!!

HE MAKES MY LEUPOLD LOOK LIKE JUNK!!!

NOW IF I CAN JUST CONVINCE THE BETTER HALF MY LEUPOLD IS COMPLETELY OUTDATED & DO THE UPGRADES I NEED!!!

THIS $HIT IS INTERESTING!!!

EVEN IF PUNK IS STIRRIN IT!!!



THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Tasco sucks. walmart sucks. Best scope I ever bought was for my 222 when I was eight years old. Picked up cans for 3 months, went to k-mart, not wal-mart mind you (LOL), and bought a $28 bushnell. That was 23 years ago and I still have that scope. The scope still holds zero and is the best scope I have. Whatever happened to bushnell? I took my bushnell elite 3200 out last night coyote hunting. Had a young pup at 100 yards. I took over 25 very easy shots at the dude and never got close. I was 5 or 6 feet low and 1 foot right??? puke. Guess I need to put my old bushnell on my ar-15.

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You got that right Bessy.....we gotta step up to the plate here and get out of the 80's!!

Will you call miss Punk and try to splain to her the importance of this new toy i MUST have please??

Stinky had me all set up on a shot at well over 1000yds and i smakcked that basket ball sized target first shot like i was sitting on a bench with a Ruger 10/22!!

This boy wants to play!!!













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I would of went
to k mart but I couldn't afford the bushnell! It was 2 bucks more! I needed the 2 bucks to buy a new tube for my bicycle so I could get home! This was just last week!
 
I already have two 55 gallon bags full of cans, i been doing a lot of dumpster diving since i got back from Colly. Lol

If i could figure out how to get return money off all these empty muscle milk cartons, i'd buy us all a new scope!!






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Stinky's not "average"........he's a total nut job!!! Lol

On a serious note.....his knowledge of long range shooting is amazing.





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Ok huntinco since your obviously in with the huskemaw guys in selling those things to everyone I will make you a proposition. Make a whole bunch of stickers that say huskemaw and sell them to nightforce guys. I will put one on my nightforce if that will make you happy. Oh, by the way mr. huskemaw salesman, factory rep, partner dude, whatever, I just ordered two more nightforce scopes. And I was almost sold on buying a huskemaw. Oh well, guess I'll just keep wasting my money on nightforce scopes. lol, all joking aside... I'm sure you guys have a fine product, you've done a great job not flying off the handle at me. Darn, what do I gotta do to get someone ticked on here??? ROFL



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stinkystomper
>Darn, what do I gotta do to get someone ticked on here??? ROFL

Ok, I'll bite!LOL

I just find it amusing that you are willing to bash Huskamaw based on no experience with the scope.

Apparently, for the type of shooting you do the NF is a good fit for you. Doesn't mean it's the only choice of scope for LR hunters as you seem to think.

I can assure you, I have no affilations with Best of the West or Huskamaw scopes.Wish I did! That would be a heck of a fun day job! I currently own a Leupold VIII with the M1 BDC turret. It works good for me. My next scope will be a huskamaw. Based on my research and speaking with other hunters who have hunted with the huskamaw, I feel it is the best scope (IMHO) for hunting applications.
 
Stinkystomper,whilst your dialing up your equation on your Iphone your buddy with the huskamaw is standing over a gut pile!

Mike
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-14-08 AT 02:37PM (MST)[p]http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/User_files/491d9772046ebe0e.jpg
 
Stinky, when I go hunting now will you carry my laptop so that I can adjust my scope correctly. :)

Seriously though. I will never take more than a 500 yard shot (except at a coyote or a crow). I dont think I can hold steady enough, but, never tried.

Do I need all that crazy stuff. Someday would like to have a conversation with you about it.

One guy made a interesting point about a high power scope and using it like a spotting scope. Never thought about that.

When your done pissing everyone off I may talk to you a little more about it.
 
Recluse:
I wouldn't recomend using a highpower scope as a replacement for a spotting scope if you plan on doing any trophy judging. However it can be done to an extent. Just depends on what you are looking for. I would be more than happy to talk to you about anything, you know that. I will also give you lots of resources to look at. There are lots of great systems you could go with. Just be ware of anyone who is set on one design only. Yeah, I guess I need to tone it down a little on here as well. Kinda sound like an all around punk aka wise you know what. LOL.

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Tony, I have a good spotting scope (Zeiss) but, you find that you never want to carry it around. Its great for using out of the car or a short hike or if you got a partner to carry it, but, other than that I dont carry it around.

I will try to get a few pennies together then we will talk about it. Next time your up here I will show you what I got and then go from there.
NMrecluse
 
Optically I have ever used any brand that compares to a Nightforce...
I'm trading a friend for his Nightforce and in return he will get a Huskemaw dialed in. Now having said that, I'm a geek who carries a Kestrel weather meter, hand held PC, GPS and other nerd gadgets and no I?M not part of Best of the West.
Right now I'm building a custom 7MM STW that will be a practical hunting rifle and it will have a Huskemaw on it. They?re just to easy to use




Justin Richins
R&K Hunting Company Inc.
www.thehuntingcompany.com
 
Now that's more like it. I have the same kestrel wind meter. I knew you would have to eventually admit to the fact that the scope isn't that easy to use. No scope is. I am also glad to hear you say that the scope is not as clear as the nightforce. I just think anyone should get a little nervous when someone claims one item in itself is a holy grail. I always feel much better when someone tells me a products failures instead of trying to deny the faults. No product is failure free and to claim so is definitely gonna raise an eye brow. Now tell us what the faults, and bonus' are.

Thanks
SS

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Hey Bessy, you writing all this down?
Our Christmas list keeps getting longer and longer....now we need one of these "kestrel meeter" thingy majiggers!!

I'm adding in a new fanny pack as well, to pack all these trinquetes in!!

Stinky.....i can't afford to keep you around, i already sent my first born child to the auction, but i gotta keep at least one!!






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LAST EDITED ON Nov-14-08 AT 07:15PM (MST)[p]
Slam, (Daddy)


Just wanted you to know the auction went great! I now have a loving family that wont give me up everytime he wants a new toy!

Thanks for everything!


your son,



One_pissed_off_Wet_and_homless_boot
 
Call me crazy but when I'm hunting and spot something a ways off I like to stalk and get close enough for a 300 yard or shorter shot..

I have long range setups but they are for varmints/predator's...

To be honest i think shows like Best of the west that promote the extreme long range shots at game is rediculous...Hunters watch these shows then buy the latest eq. thinking thats all it takes to make successfull shots at 500-1200 yards...The mathmatics and physics that you need to know/learn is too much for joe blow hunter..

horsepoop.gif
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-14-08 AT 07:15PM (MST)[p]Don't forget the nightforce angle indicator that mounts right on top of your nightforce one-piece picatinny rail. Makes quick refrence as to the shot angle when shooting on steep angles.

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Ok stinky, guess i need one of those things too.....what is it called again?? Lol

One_soggy sock (with a hole in the toe)-

I'm sorry i had to sell you to get my new scope, stinky is just too pursuasive and i am too weak to say no.
But you'll be ok, your new dad is an anti hunting professional golfer, you'll be much better off anyway.
Stay in touch, and i'll send pictures of my long range kills.
Maybe someday when you finally turn 18, you can come back home and i'll give you your first gun.
Don't plan on much though, i can tell i'm always going to be broke. You'll have to settle for a hand me down old Savage 110 topped with an old Redfield Widefield stapped to the top of it with electrical tape and bailing wire....but she's a straight shooter!! ;-)





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u can buy any type u want on midwayusa.com they also sell the ballistics software amgle degree indicator and all the rest. u can also usually find some decent deals on a nightforce nxs from ebay.
BTW... thanks to this stupid little forum I had a nightmare last night that my nightforce broke while trying to shoot my bull next fall. you guys suck!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-08 AT 01:03PM (MST)[p]You bringing your Lapua along for the elk hunt?Whats your powder choice and bullet choice stinky?Have a bud who shoots a 338 Lapua very nice long range set up.
 
HE DON'T HAVE A CLUE!!!! Not patient enough to figure it all out. Buys all his ammo preloaded.....except for the afforementioned .25-06 which I am presently putting together for him!! They WILL btw all go into an elks eye at 250 yards in the hands of a true marksman which I am sad to say...he is.
 
Don't forget to mention that you are still working on a load for the 338-378 wby mag with all the powder I just gave you! Why? because the loads I worked up for that gun using the 185 gr MRX bullets and the 160 gr. tipped tsx bullets, which both punch 1/4" groups at 100 yards aren't good enough. Somethin bout him having to do it himself. As for my lapua, yes, those are factory loads. I figure that I'd give them a shot and reload if the lapua loaded factory ammo couldn't punch sub 1/4 moa cold barrel groups and sub 3/4 moa repeated shot groups. Those bullets do both. Why load when factory ammo shoots that well and carries 5,000 lbs of energy at the muzzle. I don't think I could do much better, nor would I need to. The bullets have a BC of 0.675 and as Cookie can attest to will punch out a 3 shot group at 1,200 yards of 6 inches. That means I can hit within 3 inches of aim point at that distance. Oh, those 250 grain scenar hollow points with a mv of 3000 fps will punch through 1/4" steel sheets at 1500 yards as well. I think they are more than capable of clobbering an elk. Don't you?

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How to test a scope!!!!

For anyone who doesn't know, this is how to test the mechanics of a scope. This is what the head gunsmith for mcmillan fireamrs told me and was backed by the folks at lilja barrels.

This is how I determined that a nightforce was vastly superior to that of a swarovski and a leupold. I wouldn't take the word of the above mentioned sources. I was sold on leupold at the time.

Take a scope of your choice. Mount it on a gun and clamp it down in a vice of sorts. zoom in the scope to its highest power. place a very fine dot on the wall on the exact location of where the crosshair is pointing. If you can get the dot 25 yards away that would be perfect. Put a fired round in the chamber before you start all this. Once everything is lined up pull the trigger whereby dropping the hammer on the spent round. Now look through the scope and put another very fine dot on where the crosshairs are settled now. I can attest for every night force scope moving no more than 1/16" at 100 yards. My leupolds all(about 8) moved no less than 1/4" at 100 yards, and the 2 swarovski scopes I tested both moved between 1/4 and 1/3 of an inch at 100 yards. What does this mean? this means that you need to take your best possible group size and add scope drift into it. Every scope made has drift. Only problem is that manufacturers don't publish this data. Sucks huh? Anyways, if you have a 300 RUM that can punch a 1/2 group at 100 yards and a swarovski sits atop your gun you can expect on average that you will have no better than 3/4" groups on those bullets. That is a huge difference when we are talking accuracy. My question is this. How much mechanical drift does a huskemaw have?????

Let me say one more comment before someone chimes in and says that they got one group with a 300rum and swarovski combo under 1/4 MOA. One three shot group doesn't count. If the gun is viced, aka clamped down, you need to take your worst group as your group size. I don't care about fliers, cuz fliers don't care if or when you are shooting at deer. If you want to play mathematics you can calculate the mode, range, 1st, 2nd and 3rd sigmas, etc... all you want. All I'm saying is dont count one group once upon a time as the real accuracy of the gun.

Just curious huntinco, Can you do this with that huskemaw and let me know what the mechanical variation is on that scope. I personally could care less for optical clarity. Thats what binoculars and spotting scopes are for. Who knows, maybe the huskemaw isn't so bad. Dry fire that sucker about 10 times and post the data if you wouldn't mind. I'm sure me and everyone else in here would love to know how the huskemaw performs.

SS

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RE: How to test a scope!!!!

I also like the fact that MY brass can be used numerous times as opposed to only once! I have tried to re-use stinky's brass and after numerous re-sizings they still don't like to chamber! I just can't see abusing brass that goes for $60 a box to the point that it is unsafe to re-use. Sure your group with the MRX is awesome but I personally cannot afford $2 a BULLET!!
 
RE: How to test a scope!!!!

Then what's your excuse for the tipped tsx??? they are around $1/bullet. Also, those barnes bullets are so far under max loads it aint even funny. However I will never re- reload brass if I'm going after a big ticket critter. Coyotes and bunnies are a different story. And yes I do shoot bunnies with my 338/378 wby mag. Heck, I've even shot a cotton tail with my 50 BMG.


ROFL!
Hey cookie, remember that prairie dog you smoked with my 50 BMG at 350 yards. There may have only been a 1/2" hole in and out but it looked more like a flat skin rug. ROFDL! He pulled the trigger and all I saw was a big pile of dust rising up behind that poor little critter. I proudly and very aerogantly stated. MISSED!
Boy was I feeling good. I could hit em and he couldn't.
I get back in my spotting scope and the dog is still standing. About a half second elapses from the time of the shot and that poor little doggie starts to slowly fall straight over to the side like a big ole pine tree comin down. I sat there watching in the scope wondering what that dog was doin till I realised there was a little trickle of blood coming from dead center of his chest. I quickly swallowed my pride and laughlingly said. NO?! I think that was a hit. Poor little guy had no insides and was instantly transformed to a perfect flatskin rug. LOL

Maybe were on to somethin here. We can automate the whole coyote skinnin business for this winter!

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RE: How to test a scope!!!!

I was thinking about using my 308.Warbird action taking that barrel off and having a 338 Lapua built.Stinky would my action work?Or should I save up and purchase a BAT action?Sounds like you know quite a bit about custom toys.I am waiting to see how my buds 7MM Lapua shoots once it is finished can't afford 2 customs right now but need to get one started just can't decide what I want yet.
 
RE: How to test a scope!!!!

I guess this raises yet another question, mostly for WARBIRDUM and Stinky-

WB-
If you are now thinking about rebarreling your Lazzeroni for .338 Lapua, why didn't you just get the Titan in the first place, or just rebarrel for that round?

Here's what stinky can answer for me-
The Titan is publishing 3300 fps on their .338 and over 5400 pounds of energy, Lapua is saying 3000 fps and 4500 lbs of energy for a 225gr projectile.

I DO know that Lazzeroni publishes high ballistic numbers, but are they THAT far exaggerated??






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RE: How to test a scope!!!!

i dont see why it wouldnt. You will definitely need a different bolt for safety issues. But if you are going custom why not go all the way? I would just make sure I had some beefy locking lugs for the 5K+ of energy that gun will geneate.

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RE: How to test a scope!!!!

Slam,
I have a bud that is very into building very accurate long range calibers.Not to knock Lazzeroni but for the money a guy can possibly get a better shooting rifle for the buck.My warbird has been fun buts it's time to move on am even thinking about just getting a 7MM built custom stock barrel trigger and action a rifle in this caliber would take care of my needs.But the 338 Lapua would be a choice I don't think a guy could go wrong with and I could use my warbird action which could save me some coin there.Slam the speed is not the important thing for me anymore when you can just click your scope and the 338 Lapua has enough energy for anything that you want to destroy.The heavy bullets buck the wind real well making it a very good long range cal.Stinky help me out what's your thoughts on the Titan Vs. The Lapua?
Decisions Decisions.
 
RE: How to test a scope!!!!

My bud has a BAT action on his 338 Lapua very nice action but kind of spendy.
Like you said stinky why cut corners if you you are going custom go with the best there is to offer from the scope to the barrel trigger action and who builds the rifle.
What's your thoughts on a custom 7mm Lapua?That is the next rifle my bud will be trying out.Yes he has a sickness gets one built gets it shooting excellent and just has to start another one.He is telling me to just hang tight until he gets this new project shooting and then make my choice.
Maybe we had better get back to talking scopes sorry Slam kind of got off track now talking custom rifles.
 
RE: How to test a scope!!!!

I've never even read up on a 7mm lapua. I'm kind of a big bore fan. My next major project is a 6mm ppc. Of course I will be going with a lelja barrel. Haven't settled on a stock. Kida want to try a us optics scope on it though. Don't apologize to slammy. He don't have feelings. As for the 6mm ppc. I'm building it on a friends advice. He assures me it will produce sub 1/10 moa groups. It's basically a 220 russian re-necked. That 220 rusian is the bomb for accuracy in my books.

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RE: How to test a scope!!!!

this is sure getting stupid, i thought this was about comparing two scopes. now you're building a gun, that shoot sub 1/10 moa groups no less, must be one shot groups!!!! guys, i think it is time to let this one die..... ce61
 
RE: How to test a scope!!!!

I'd be interested to see how the huskamaw does in this test as well.

The guys from best of the west also build their own custom rifles.Their pet caliber is a 6.5mm 284. I know Arron told me that it is very common for that rifle to shoot 1 shot groups or at least 1/4 inch groups. They shoot 140 grain berger VLD bullets exclusively.

Mike
 
OK, this will be the last post on this subject I promise. I read the first paragraph and had to quit reading the sales pitch from best of the west. The more I read about those guys the sicker they make me. They try to over complicate things so that people are snowed over by the BS and think a magic turret, or their scope will solve all their problems. Here's what ticked me off about their dumb little article. First off they want you te believe that temperature will have a massive effect in your overal drop which is BS! temperature effects your bullets velocity, and that is very easily calculated in the field, which every hunter should have a rough idea of how much velocity to account for in the shot. Ive tested all factors. trust me, temp is one of the least to worry about. temperature is a constant on both sides of the equation. If one side drops the other side will drop. I've tested the same 1200 yard shot at 90 degrees f and again at 40 degrees F, and I couldn't tell the impact difference between the two in many different field testss. All in all this will move your firing solution mere fractions of an inch at say 2000 yards. What a bunch of crap. If they want to be technical they need to say that the bc changes for every 200 fps velocity drop. And that the bc change needs to also be factored in. Nightforce software does this. Lets do a simple comparison between shooting the two scopes. Lets say we have two guys side by side. One has a huskemaw and the other has a nightforce with a pda. Both must make range measurements. Both must make windage measurements. Both must make angle measurements. Oh wait, we can't go there because the huskemaw guy would have to change angle turrets period. Lets say its a flat shot. Now, both shooters need to figure out where to adjust the scope. The nightforce guy takes about 15 seconds entering the distance on his pda to find the moa to put his scope on. The huskemaw guy simply moves his knob. The huskemaw would be 15 seconds ahead. Now, if the animal isn't still standing there 15 seconds later that means the animal was never standing still enough long enough to get off a shot and that neither one of the shooters has any business shooting. Everyone knows that a bullets flight time at 1000+ yards is well over a second. You absolutely don't shoot unless you know the animal is standing absolutely still and clear. At those distances we are shooting at calm animals and aren't in a rush to get a shot off. Time is not a factor when shooting long distance. This just goes to show how inexperienced the best of the west really is, and how desperate they are to sell a product. In addition, best of the west left out the doppler equations to accurately get bullets on target at extended ranges. Why do you think the us marine corp has target computers for their snipers. Cuz there's more to dead precise long range shooting than what these guys try to snow you over with. Just leave it to the reader to read anything from any companies website for what it is. An advertisement. Any advertisement will be biased. Like I said before, I will be happy to meet best of the west in an anachoic chamber any day. That will allow us to get the RCS (radar cross section) of the bullet. This will allow us to write a mathematical algorithm of the bullet and show us the exact BC changes in flight that will show the malformities caused by supersonic travel, and how the malformities even out at subsonic travels. It will also show how the flow of air around the bullet changes from non-laminar flow in certain areas to nearly laminar flow once velocities are slowed enough. This will allow us to verify the computer algorithm/simulation with darcy's equation of radial flow which will help to determine the shockwave around the bullet which will help us to better determine the terminal velocity with which the bullet is falling at every different velocity change while the bullet is traveling. Once this is factored in we need only to get the final miniscual analysis of how gravitiy will effect the bullet. This can only be accomplished by calculating how much the space/time movement acting on the bullet will change the last details of the bullets drop. This can of course be determined with einsteins law of relativity. Of course this may be roughly estimated based on how light bends around massive objects due to the space/time bends around objects. We all know that as objects move they move the space/time fabric around them which is what we percieve as gravity. None of what I said above is BS. It is all physics and is all very relative to bodies in motion. Now, see how easy it is for stupid little stinky stomper to snow everyone over as well! Lets not be silly, and just keep it simple.
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Hey stinky,

Dude, I wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers....Honestly!

I just thought it was interesting reading. If you would have read the 2nd paragraph the guy went on to say the MOA knobs are very good and very accurate and specifically mentioned Nightforce and the Nightforce software.

He says quote "I personally think this is the most accurate way to make hit's at targets that are considered ultra long range (800+yards)." Talking about the Nightforce scope and software.

I thought he had a very open minded view of the subject, he says each has it place and there's always going to be a strong argument for both sides.

I agree with you, time can not be a factor when shooting long range with either method.
 

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