Nikon sides with Wolf activists.
- Thread starter Pre64
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RELH
Long Time Member
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- 17,481
Nikon sells far more high end cameras to the libs that are prone to be anti hunting, and probably caved end for pure sales reasons.
Sportsmans and Cabelas cater to the hunting&fishing crowd and would be committing a big marketing error to cave in.
Even though I am a big fan of the Nikon Monarch rifle scopes,I will more then likely be looking at other brands in the future.
They have the right to cater to what crowd they wish too, and we have the right to continue or not continue buying their products.
RELH
Sportsmans and Cabelas cater to the hunting&fishing crowd and would be committing a big marketing error to cave in.
Even though I am a big fan of the Nikon Monarch rifle scopes,I will more then likely be looking at other brands in the future.
They have the right to cater to what crowd they wish too, and we have the right to continue or not continue buying their products.
RELH
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-10 AT 11:25AM (MST)[p]We have to be able to see both sides in any picture. Nikon is a huge company and the board of directors understands what they sell. If you think coming on here and posting up that they pulled out is going to make a point you're 100% right it will. Just how many sponsors do you think will rethink their posture of supporting future fundraiser for hunters when we take a stance to boycott them for making a business decision and post it up all over the internet. I can see your point but you have to be aware enough to understand their position as well. They probably left the items they donated and wouldn't have had an issue at all if they wouldn't have been put in that position. Fund raising has changed a bit boys and to be honest you can still get them to play if you're not putting them in this type a position. No banner or open display of them sponsoring the event probably would have been fine with them.
In todays politically sensitive climate and difficult economic times we have to be aware that they have other interests that bring revenues to their corporations and profit is the bottom line. They don't make a single cent on anything they donate and poking them in the ribs isn't going to make them OR ANY OTHER COMPANY CONSIDERING DONATING want to support anyone in the future. So conversely, who have you supported by doing this in this manner. THE ANTIHUNTING GROUPS THAT CAUSED THE ISSUE NOT THE COMPANY THAT ACTUALLY SUPPORTED YOUR EVENT!!! IF you have an issue fine write them but don't discourage particpation from other companies by smearing them on the damn internet. Out smart them don't help them ! We need all the monies we can garner from any source to fight this battle boys.. so wake up and smell the coffee. You're putting the things you love to do in harms way by eliminating sponsors that support your events. Who wins in this scenario!
In todays politically sensitive climate and difficult economic times we have to be aware that they have other interests that bring revenues to their corporations and profit is the bottom line. They don't make a single cent on anything they donate and poking them in the ribs isn't going to make them OR ANY OTHER COMPANY CONSIDERING DONATING want to support anyone in the future. So conversely, who have you supported by doing this in this manner. THE ANTIHUNTING GROUPS THAT CAUSED THE ISSUE NOT THE COMPANY THAT ACTUALLY SUPPORTED YOUR EVENT!!! IF you have an issue fine write them but don't discourage particpation from other companies by smearing them on the damn internet. Out smart them don't help them ! We need all the monies we can garner from any source to fight this battle boys.. so wake up and smell the coffee. You're putting the things you love to do in harms way by eliminating sponsors that support your events. Who wins in this scenario!
That's 100% correct RELH, we were told the camera side of the company makes more money and insisted that sponsorship be pulled. All logos, references, and donated prizes were eliminated.
I think I understand your point Boskee but I'm not sure I agree. Nikon has told me (and by extension, us) that they are unwilling to support and promote the use of their product for fear of offending other customers who they value more. I should add that "use of their product" is the sport of hunting. Further, the other customers who they value more are those who wish to eliminate our hunting heritage. That's their decision to make.
Further, I did not eliminate Nikon's sponsorship of this event. The anti-hunting groups put the pressure on Nikon and Nikon caved. Lets be clear about this; anti-hunters won in this scenario! If Nikon can make a decision like this without any consequences then we can expect anti-hunting groups to target any company that supports hunting. This will lead to NO SPONSORS unless we support the companies that support us. This point is more salient when one considers Nikon has a line of scopes called "coyote specials". I was not a Cabelas customer until I learned that they rebuffed the threats made by the anti-hunters. Now I am.
In short; Nikon sided with the anti-hunters. I will side with Leupold. I hope more consumers will do the same. They make better stuff anyway.
I think I understand your point Boskee but I'm not sure I agree. Nikon has told me (and by extension, us) that they are unwilling to support and promote the use of their product for fear of offending other customers who they value more. I should add that "use of their product" is the sport of hunting. Further, the other customers who they value more are those who wish to eliminate our hunting heritage. That's their decision to make.
Further, I did not eliminate Nikon's sponsorship of this event. The anti-hunting groups put the pressure on Nikon and Nikon caved. Lets be clear about this; anti-hunters won in this scenario! If Nikon can make a decision like this without any consequences then we can expect anti-hunting groups to target any company that supports hunting. This will lead to NO SPONSORS unless we support the companies that support us. This point is more salient when one considers Nikon has a line of scopes called "coyote specials". I was not a Cabelas customer until I learned that they rebuffed the threats made by the anti-hunters. Now I am.
In short; Nikon sided with the anti-hunters. I will side with Leupold. I hope more consumers will do the same. They make better stuff anyway.
Just for information, I just returned from the Big Rock dealers show in Vegas, where about 9,000 Western sporting goods dealers buy their inventory, from about 1200 vendors.
This is the first year in the last 8 that had NO Nikon vendor booth.
A LOT of buyers had heard that Nikon was pulling back on their entire hunting optics line.
I guess they can recall all dealer stock of camo rangefinders, repaint them and sell them to pantywaste golfers.
This is the first year in the last 8 that had NO Nikon vendor booth.
A LOT of buyers had heard that Nikon was pulling back on their entire hunting optics line.
I guess they can recall all dealer stock of camo rangefinders, repaint them and sell them to pantywaste golfers.
J
Jazz
Guest
Total agreement on pulling away from Nikon versus other companies that support our rights. This is interesting though because you might be surprised at what "other" companies might be supporting. We in the timber industry learned this lesson many years ago and when you learned about all of "them" you could hardly buy anything from pickups to levi's.
So why did you have to bash golfers? You must not be very good! Would sure like to see you play in our group and say something like that! LOL
Jazz
So why did you have to bash golfers? You must not be very good! Would sure like to see you play in our group and say something like that! LOL
Jazz
D
drahthaar
Guest
I wonder if the wolf supporters know what wolves do to coyotes???
S
Senjo99
Guest
I agree with Pre64. Nikon made a decsion and it is encumbant upon those affected to make sure others are aware of that decision.
Personally, if a corporation takes a stance I strongly disagree with I take my business elsewhere. In the future Nikon products will no longer be a consideration for me.
Personally, if a corporation takes a stance I strongly disagree with I take my business elsewhere. In the future Nikon products will no longer be a consideration for me.
.............why would you want to bash golfers". To garner the EXACT response I got from you.
And yes, I suck at golf. The pantyhose and pink trousers bind up my "lower unit" and I just don't get far enough around on my swing.
More golfers use rangefinders than hunters.....in spite of the fact that each hole is listed by distance.
And yes, I suck at golf. The pantyhose and pink trousers bind up my "lower unit" and I just don't get far enough around on my swing.
More golfers use rangefinders than hunters.....in spite of the fact that each hole is listed by distance.
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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- 10,445
Why waste the time with a thread like this?
It is evident that the anti's have way more influence than us.
Sadly, but more inportantly, way more finacial influence.
Those coyote hunts get alot of negative press and alot of hunters are not really active in supporting them.
Who will be the next company? A Hiking boot company or someone like that?
Robb
It is evident that the anti's have way more influence than us.
Sadly, but more inportantly, way more finacial influence.
Those coyote hunts get alot of negative press and alot of hunters are not really active in supporting them.
Who will be the next company? A Hiking boot company or someone like that?
Robb
You guys that honestly believe, that hunters, as a group actually have any REAL influence on the market, are living in a dream world.
ALL the major hunting related companies are owned by huge conglomerates and the guns, ammo, camo, etc, etc, are small pieces of their overall program. They support, promote, produce and participate, only as long as it remains profitable.....PROFIT.
When, or if, the whole hunting/gun thing falls apart, most of these corporations will not miss a step on the path to annual profit.
The best example that I know of right now is Federal, arguably Americas largest ammunition producer. They have several ammo companies under the "Federal" brand and yet, they are a subsidiary of a huge corporation called "Alliant Technologies Corp".
The entire Federal division amounts to 8% of that company's portfolio. If it ALL went south tomorrow, that 8% will be absorbed by their next nuclear submarine contract.
Almost all of the products produced and imported into the US, are from European companies with HUGE military contracts and while American sportsmen are part of their program, we are not going to bankrupt them with the loss of our business.
I am not saying that there aren't companies that absolutely need our business, but for the most part, the big guys don't have all their eggs in OUR daypacks.
If you REALLY only wanted to support those that need us, you aren't going to find most of the stuff you want or need.
If you think you have an argument for this post, check out which companies have a strong Customer Service program. It won't be Beretta or Remington, compared to Ruger and it won't be Nikon, compared to Leupold or Bushnell.
Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski, produce optics for medical, military and industrial use and their "birdwatcher" market far outsells what American hunters purchase.
The main reason most of these companies have such a good product is because their R&D divisions are funded by government military contracts.
The products we hunters end up with, are pretty much like the donut holes left over from a bakery.
ALL the major hunting related companies are owned by huge conglomerates and the guns, ammo, camo, etc, etc, are small pieces of their overall program. They support, promote, produce and participate, only as long as it remains profitable.....PROFIT.
When, or if, the whole hunting/gun thing falls apart, most of these corporations will not miss a step on the path to annual profit.
The best example that I know of right now is Federal, arguably Americas largest ammunition producer. They have several ammo companies under the "Federal" brand and yet, they are a subsidiary of a huge corporation called "Alliant Technologies Corp".
The entire Federal division amounts to 8% of that company's portfolio. If it ALL went south tomorrow, that 8% will be absorbed by their next nuclear submarine contract.
Almost all of the products produced and imported into the US, are from European companies with HUGE military contracts and while American sportsmen are part of their program, we are not going to bankrupt them with the loss of our business.
I am not saying that there aren't companies that absolutely need our business, but for the most part, the big guys don't have all their eggs in OUR daypacks.
If you REALLY only wanted to support those that need us, you aren't going to find most of the stuff you want or need.
If you think you have an argument for this post, check out which companies have a strong Customer Service program. It won't be Beretta or Remington, compared to Ruger and it won't be Nikon, compared to Leupold or Bushnell.
Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski, produce optics for medical, military and industrial use and their "birdwatcher" market far outsells what American hunters purchase.
The main reason most of these companies have such a good product is because their R&D divisions are funded by government military contracts.
The products we hunters end up with, are pretty much like the donut holes left over from a bakery.
J
Jazz
Guest
I wonder if you can ever just stay on the topic of the thread? So what if golfers use range finders! Why don't we just "bash" everyone for everything they do that you don't like? Interesting but why should I bother when the IQ is obviously south of 100!
Jazz
Jazz
Sorry Jazzman, I guess I somehow should have known that your IQ was "south of 100" and that you would miss the point entirely. I'll type slower from now on.
In spite of the fact that I took a shot at golfers......because I can... it was merely an example of the fact, that many things we use, have alternate applications and markets.
Lighten up, your day will have a much "more harmonious outcome".
In spite of the fact that I took a shot at golfers......because I can... it was merely an example of the fact, that many things we use, have alternate applications and markets.
Lighten up, your day will have a much "more harmonious outcome".
J
Jazz
Guest
Whatever 89! If you can't do something don't bash those who can! I'm pretty sure that includes hunting, golf, or anything else!
Jazz
Jazz
This was taken form a post later in February 2010 on the topic. Now is it possible that you guys can actually see how they are working against you. They're turning you against your sponsors the ones willing to give you money to support your event and you guys are taking the bait and turning on them. You should be exerting your effort against the party that caused your sponsor to withdraw. They weren't willing to give you anything yet you did exactly what they wanted you to.
Below is the e-mail from the anti's to get a pettiion signed.
"It's bad enough that wolves in the Northern Rocky mountains lost their protected status under the Endangered Species Act. But now, they are being targeted en masse in "predator derbies" -- competitions where contestants vie to see who can kill the most wolves and other animals over a two-day period.
Tell the corporate sponsors of these derbies to withdraw their support >>
Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse, two major outdoor retailers, sponsored three derbies in Idaho since November. The proceeds from entry fees go to the "Idaho Sportsman's Litigation Fund."
The fund is actually a moneypot for lawyers and lobbyists working for the misleadingly named group Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife. This fund has one purpose: to keep wolves unprotected and in the crosshairs.
We know that wolves are worth more than the three points competitors received for each kill at these barbaric predator derbies. Wolves are an essential part of the ecosystem in the American West, and a healthy wolf population helps all the animals down the food chain."
Join our friends at Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund to protect the great strides we've made toward wolf recovery. Demand that Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse withdraw sponsorship of predator derbies that target wolves >>
Thanks for taking action!
Emily V.
Care2 and ThePetitionSite Team
Tell Predator Derby Sponsors: Wolves are Worth More than Three Points!
Tell outdoor retailers Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse that wolves are worth more than three points!
Take Action!
Grassroots pressure forced Nikon to withdraw its sponsorship of wold-killing predator derbies. Now it's time to turn the heat on Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse to get them to do the same.
Forward to a friend >>
Read the petition >>
Alert
Below is the e-mail from the anti's to get a pettiion signed.
"It's bad enough that wolves in the Northern Rocky mountains lost their protected status under the Endangered Species Act. But now, they are being targeted en masse in "predator derbies" -- competitions where contestants vie to see who can kill the most wolves and other animals over a two-day period.
Tell the corporate sponsors of these derbies to withdraw their support >>
Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse, two major outdoor retailers, sponsored three derbies in Idaho since November. The proceeds from entry fees go to the "Idaho Sportsman's Litigation Fund."
The fund is actually a moneypot for lawyers and lobbyists working for the misleadingly named group Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife. This fund has one purpose: to keep wolves unprotected and in the crosshairs.
We know that wolves are worth more than the three points competitors received for each kill at these barbaric predator derbies. Wolves are an essential part of the ecosystem in the American West, and a healthy wolf population helps all the animals down the food chain."
Join our friends at Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund to protect the great strides we've made toward wolf recovery. Demand that Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse withdraw sponsorship of predator derbies that target wolves >>
Thanks for taking action!
Emily V.
Care2 and ThePetitionSite Team
Tell Predator Derby Sponsors: Wolves are Worth More than Three Points!
Tell outdoor retailers Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse that wolves are worth more than three points!
Take Action!
Grassroots pressure forced Nikon to withdraw its sponsorship of wold-killing predator derbies. Now it's time to turn the heat on Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse to get them to do the same.
Forward to a friend >>
Read the petition >>
Alert
A
ALPHAMAXSTER
Guest
Was looking at a nikon spotter and bought swaro instead when I heard about this awhile back. Emily V obviously doesnt know squat about the food chain out here. If we dont fix the wolf "PROBLEM" there wont be a chain.... we will have one link left. regardless of what effect we as outdoorsman have on the huge companies, we need to stand together. Its the only way we will ever stand a chance of being heard. Makes me wonder with all this going down and i see alot of hunting personalities switching and using the Nikon brand. Anyone know whats behind this? All I can think is money talks!!
califhuntn
Active Member
- Messages
- 792
With names like Eastman's, Realtree, etc in the hunting community who have taken to Nikon (just look at Mike's last episode) for corporate sponsorship I think they could really make a statement to Nikon by severing ties. I understand it is a little more complicated. Nikon probably brings large corporate dollars to Realtree and Eastmans. That would be hard to replace. They also sell more cameras than hunting optics. But if we take a stand I know they will feel it. They clearly see hunting optics as a up and coming market or they wouldn't be trying to take such a large stake in it.
I think the ED50 I was planning on buying is suspended. I guess I need to do more leg presses because my Swarovski 65mm is going back in my pack.
JR
I think the ED50 I was planning on buying is suspended. I guess I need to do more leg presses because my Swarovski 65mm is going back in my pack.
JR
LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-10 AT 06:58AM (MST)[p]I have not been a Nikon user and definitely will not be in the future.
Nikon made a choice that they have right to make, but we as hunters should not support a company that does not support sound wildlife management. We need as much predator hunting done right now as ever before.
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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
Nikon made a choice that they have right to make, but we as hunters should not support a company that does not support sound wildlife management. We need as much predator hunting done right now as ever before.
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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-10 AT 12:25PM (MST)[p]And just how much have any of you opposers open up your wallets and given to support hunting? I'll bet we'll all just quake at the money you've thrown at the cause. You guys are hitting the companies that are giving more dollars to support one event than most of you have given in your lives. They were willing to give the money but the publicity caused them to step back. If the event organizers would have not publicized the fact that NIKON was giving the money who would the animal rights activists attacked? They probably donated merchandise and left that to be given away. If the organizers wouldn't have publicized the fact NIKON gave them the money they'd still have their check!! The fact that some of you guys in your infinate wisdom would rather boycott the companies that actually support your event and actually contribute to our cause plays right into the antis hands.
They're getting you to hurt the entity's that support what you want to do ...NOT... the entity that caused the pressure that caused them to withdraw. Just how much money has the anti's given any of you deep thinkers to put on any kind of a hunting event or a predator shoot? Why don't you go solicit them for a donation?? If you don't like what NIKON did tell them in a letter, or don't buy their products but don't cut off your nose to spite your face by running them down on a public forum. If the big guys COMPANIES stop donating because a few of you deep thinkers keep putting pressure on them where will you be then? The antis are getting you to exert pressure on yourselves and you're not smart enough to figure it out. Wake up boys those anti's haven't donated a red cent to any event in their entire lives but yet they're getting you to do their work and put pressure on those that do. It's like a kid sitting back and telling you to rob a bank and takes the money from you when you do and you go to jail. They just manipulated you wake up and go after those that want to stop hunting not those that actually promote it!!!
They're getting you to hurt the entity's that support what you want to do ...NOT... the entity that caused the pressure that caused them to withdraw. Just how much money has the anti's given any of you deep thinkers to put on any kind of a hunting event or a predator shoot? Why don't you go solicit them for a donation?? If you don't like what NIKON did tell them in a letter, or don't buy their products but don't cut off your nose to spite your face by running them down on a public forum. If the big guys COMPANIES stop donating because a few of you deep thinkers keep putting pressure on them where will you be then? The antis are getting you to exert pressure on yourselves and you're not smart enough to figure it out. Wake up boys those anti's haven't donated a red cent to any event in their entire lives but yet they're getting you to do their work and put pressure on those that do. It's like a kid sitting back and telling you to rob a bank and takes the money from you when you do and you go to jail. They just manipulated you wake up and go after those that want to stop hunting not those that actually promote it!!!
LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-10 AT 02:05PM (MST)[p]Why is it when any sponsor pulls out from your event that there are those among us that attack them or want to boycott them because we think it's the only answer.
Think about this XYZ company has a budget that allows them to contribute to 300 events this year. It's the companies intent to honor all those commitments. But when organizing an event one event organizer thought it was wise to promote who the sponsors were to attract more participants. They post the flyers all over town and guess what an antihunter picks up one of them and goes home and sends out an email that results in 300 letters that day going to that company that says they'll boycott them and won't buy a product that has the most amount of sales and profit to that companies bottom line. XYZ then pulls out from that event and tells the sponsors too much pressure can't do it.
The anti's get them to pull out of 3 other events during the year but XYZ donates goods and helps sponsor 296 events all of which benefit the hunting community and our cause. All in all XYZ did a remarkable job to help our cause. The fact that they find out about these events lies solely with how they're organized and publicized. If you don't mention names they can only critize your event but when you tell them who's supporting you, you open all the doors to give them more ways to attack you. If it's a gun or a bow company it doesn't matter but other companies that make different products have to be sensitive to their entire product line and how each product relates to their bottom line. The anti's are highly organized and depend on the hunting community to offer up the BOYCOTT on anything that doesn't suit us. in fact they plan for it in their approach.
Yep we'll show em, we'll hit em where it hurts, get right in their face. But who wins with this type of mentality not us but the antis because they're getting you to boycott those that support that which we do knowing that at some point the sponsor will stop altogether since we are boycotting them and they're contributing to our cause. In effect we're attacking ourselves and hurting those that contribute to numerous events in the process. It's not just about your event it's about garnering as much support to put on events to promote hunting and enable us to be able to fund our cause. If you sit back and look at the bigger picture we aren't going to get away without oppositon for every event we host or support but in the end if we stick together we'll be able to defeat them collectively. Attacking our sposors on a public forum can only cost us more events down the line, if you're unhappy about what happened tell them and look at how you promoted your event and handle it in a more discreet manner to not hurt our chances of getting them to help with other events.
If you put flyers out that state your hosting a predator hunt and have sponsors names on it it can't surprise you that they'll attack you and put pressure on your sponsors. They can't attack what they don't know so mention what you to have but leave the companies names off to keep them out of the line of fire. They lie, cheat and do anything they can to try to ruin our sport so why play into their hands. Don't take the bait boys look at the big picture because that company is probably sponsoing another event that didn't get caught somewhere else that same weekend. We need the companies donations and funds to help support our cause why do you think they attack us every time they find out. There's strength in numbers and big companies contribute big dollars to support hunting. If they can eliminate those big $$ they eliminate us.
Think about this XYZ company has a budget that allows them to contribute to 300 events this year. It's the companies intent to honor all those commitments. But when organizing an event one event organizer thought it was wise to promote who the sponsors were to attract more participants. They post the flyers all over town and guess what an antihunter picks up one of them and goes home and sends out an email that results in 300 letters that day going to that company that says they'll boycott them and won't buy a product that has the most amount of sales and profit to that companies bottom line. XYZ then pulls out from that event and tells the sponsors too much pressure can't do it.
The anti's get them to pull out of 3 other events during the year but XYZ donates goods and helps sponsor 296 events all of which benefit the hunting community and our cause. All in all XYZ did a remarkable job to help our cause. The fact that they find out about these events lies solely with how they're organized and publicized. If you don't mention names they can only critize your event but when you tell them who's supporting you, you open all the doors to give them more ways to attack you. If it's a gun or a bow company it doesn't matter but other companies that make different products have to be sensitive to their entire product line and how each product relates to their bottom line. The anti's are highly organized and depend on the hunting community to offer up the BOYCOTT on anything that doesn't suit us. in fact they plan for it in their approach.
Yep we'll show em, we'll hit em where it hurts, get right in their face. But who wins with this type of mentality not us but the antis because they're getting you to boycott those that support that which we do knowing that at some point the sponsor will stop altogether since we are boycotting them and they're contributing to our cause. In effect we're attacking ourselves and hurting those that contribute to numerous events in the process. It's not just about your event it's about garnering as much support to put on events to promote hunting and enable us to be able to fund our cause. If you sit back and look at the bigger picture we aren't going to get away without oppositon for every event we host or support but in the end if we stick together we'll be able to defeat them collectively. Attacking our sposors on a public forum can only cost us more events down the line, if you're unhappy about what happened tell them and look at how you promoted your event and handle it in a more discreet manner to not hurt our chances of getting them to help with other events.
If you put flyers out that state your hosting a predator hunt and have sponsors names on it it can't surprise you that they'll attack you and put pressure on your sponsors. They can't attack what they don't know so mention what you to have but leave the companies names off to keep them out of the line of fire. They lie, cheat and do anything they can to try to ruin our sport so why play into their hands. Don't take the bait boys look at the big picture because that company is probably sponsoing another event that didn't get caught somewhere else that same weekend. We need the companies donations and funds to help support our cause why do you think they attack us every time they find out. There's strength in numbers and big companies contribute big dollars to support hunting. If they can eliminate those big $$ they eliminate us.
