huntindad4
Very Active Member
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- 2,610
"1) a population goal is not the same as carrying capacity. Utah has done tons of habitat work to try and increase carrying capacity to grow herds to population goals. The problem is that most units have goals that are above what the habitat can hold."
Carrying capacity of habitat is in reference to the entire range of a given population not just winter range. In average or good winters a the winter range can hold a booming population without damage to habitat or the herd. In bad winters the herd will be thinned. Populations should be above what a hard winter can sustain thereby creating a survival of the fittest strength in the herd. Not WAY above but above. Extreme winters such as 07 and 08 in the Gunnison Basin will hurt the herd and take the young and old regardless of population.
"severe winterkill has been an issue on general units in recent years...especially in Colorado."
There are no General Units in CO. And the 0 or 1 point units are not suffering from excess deer on the winter range. Nor are any that I know of near carrying capacity let alone have too high of a buck to doe ratio. The areas hit hard by the 07 and 08 winters were draw units that required at least 2 or 3 NR points.
"This winterkill would NOT have occurred had the habitat been able to hold more deer..."
And you KNOW this HOW? Severe winters kill even with PLENTY of food all the time. Often the food is there just inaccessible from deep snow etc..
"3) Deer units exist all over the flippin' west with too high of buck/doe ratios...the Henry's is the perfect example. The Henry's unit would be growing at a much faster rate if they weren't holding so many bucks in the population that are fighting over limited summer range. Heck, it is easy to see that the Henry's is at or near carrying capacity because growth is so slow...despite tons and tons of habitat work and predator control. General season units in Utah are where they should be with buck/doe ratios minus a couple which are too low...Colorado and Nevada on the other hand are different stories."
Again you CANNOT compare a draw unit with a general unit in this case. I am not even slightly familiar with the Henry's unit (except for the drooler bucks that i see on sights like this) so I have to take your word that its population is in some kind of trouble but this is the first I have heard of it.
So all the whining here about the herds in UT are unfounded and things are peachy on all but a couple general units in your state? Again this is the first I have heard this.
Colorado and Nevada are different stories alright as they seem to be on every mulie hunters short list so I guess that must be what you mean.
Bill
Look out Forkie, FTW is watching us!
Carrying capacity of habitat is in reference to the entire range of a given population not just winter range. In average or good winters a the winter range can hold a booming population without damage to habitat or the herd. In bad winters the herd will be thinned. Populations should be above what a hard winter can sustain thereby creating a survival of the fittest strength in the herd. Not WAY above but above. Extreme winters such as 07 and 08 in the Gunnison Basin will hurt the herd and take the young and old regardless of population.
"severe winterkill has been an issue on general units in recent years...especially in Colorado."
There are no General Units in CO. And the 0 or 1 point units are not suffering from excess deer on the winter range. Nor are any that I know of near carrying capacity let alone have too high of a buck to doe ratio. The areas hit hard by the 07 and 08 winters were draw units that required at least 2 or 3 NR points.
"This winterkill would NOT have occurred had the habitat been able to hold more deer..."
And you KNOW this HOW? Severe winters kill even with PLENTY of food all the time. Often the food is there just inaccessible from deep snow etc..
"3) Deer units exist all over the flippin' west with too high of buck/doe ratios...the Henry's is the perfect example. The Henry's unit would be growing at a much faster rate if they weren't holding so many bucks in the population that are fighting over limited summer range. Heck, it is easy to see that the Henry's is at or near carrying capacity because growth is so slow...despite tons and tons of habitat work and predator control. General season units in Utah are where they should be with buck/doe ratios minus a couple which are too low...Colorado and Nevada on the other hand are different stories."
Again you CANNOT compare a draw unit with a general unit in this case. I am not even slightly familiar with the Henry's unit (except for the drooler bucks that i see on sights like this) so I have to take your word that its population is in some kind of trouble but this is the first I have heard of it.
So all the whining here about the herds in UT are unfounded and things are peachy on all but a couple general units in your state? Again this is the first I have heard this.
Colorado and Nevada are different stories alright as they seem to be on every mulie hunters short list so I guess that must be what you mean.
Bill
Look out Forkie, FTW is watching us!
