No More Pahvant...

[Ticks N Tines]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-13 AT 11:34AM (MST)[p]....on the expo tag list.

Looks like they figured they would get more money for them in the auction. Same goes for a few others that were on the list and aren't this year.

 

[grizzly]

They cut tags from all the Premium units (San Juan, Pahvant, Henry's, Pauns, Moose tags, etc...) compared to years past. They did increase bear and cougar tags by huge amounts so they could still get to 200. They pretend like that is an even swap.

That whole thing is a joke.

 

[HuntElk4Fun_]

They cut a lot of elk tags but it doesn't give them more to sell. Apples and oranges tags. Conservation permits and convention permits are different types of tags and not related. They get a set amount of conservation permits split amongst qualifying orgs. Convention permits are 200 that anyone can win the contract and have the right to giveaway via a drawing like the expo if they win the contract and hold a convention/expo to bring people to Utah.

 

[elkassassin]

So?

Did all the Tags Cut out of the Drawing go to the Auction?

If they did I'm gonna call Zim!


"""Supporting Speed Limits doesn't make You Anti Car"""

No & You'll never Fix STUPID or WACKO'S by changing Gun Laws You Dumb BITTCH!

 

[grizzly]

I get the difference between Convention and Conservation Tags... my issue is the disparity between the quality of tags now being seen in Convention Tag vs. Conservation Tag pools.

The Expo is down to one each of the Premium Tags (Henry deer, San Juan Elk, Moose, etc...), but the withdrawn tags don't back into the public draw... they just go to Conservation Tags (the high bidder).

The Average Joe is getting screwed again. For example, there are now 23 Convention Tags for Wasatch Elk alone (up from 13 last year). Basically, the really good tags were substituted for lesser tags... and the rich guys get all the benefit. This is fine in Capitalism, but this isn't Capitalism; this is public property and a public trust being sold for individual gain.

Go look how many Conservation Paunsaugunt Rifle Tags there are (http://www.sfw.net/permits.asp or http://www.muledeer.org/hunting/tags-permits/conservation-permits) in 2013... a whole handful. We all get to fight for three at the Expo, while Paey-day's buddies get to each buy one for less money than in the past since the supply is increased.

This whole Conservation/Convention Tag thing is corrupt.

 

[Birdman]

What gets me is that there are a bunch of people out there that have no idea how the system works, or how the tag situation works and then they get on here and start to spout off about what is going on and how they are getting screwed. Go to the meetings and find out what is going on and how it works. Then you can complain KNOWING how it works.

 

[HuntElk4Fun_]

Grizzly,

The tags aren't converted to conservation tags. We lost a Henries tag, there an extra Henries tag up for sale? No. Pretty much all of those Pauns tags on SFWs website are landowner tags not conservation permits. If they were apples to apples tags pulled from one pool would increase the other- they're not. Most conservation tags are setup on a 3 year program with some 1 year ones rotated thru as well. It's why some years you see say 2 archery elk for a unit and them next only 1. Just because the 200 expo tags change from year to year doesn't mean they're carving off those extra good tags to sell.

 

[PleaseDear]

Anyways---back to the topic.....

I hear ya HJB, my favorite elk unit has no tag this year in the Expo list to draw.

Anyone see the 5 tags list for non-ressy's only? in attendance??

Robb

 

[8mmMag]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-13 AT 06:39AM (MST)[p]>What gets me is that there
>are a bunch of people
>out there that have no
>idea how the system works,
>or how the tag situation
>works and then they get
>on here and start to
>spout off about what is
>going on and how they
>are getting screwed. Go
>to the meetings and find
>out what is going on
>and how it works.
>Then you can complain KNOWING
>how it works.


Birdman,....you are very right. There are many that come on MM, and make comments about issues they know nothing about. But, they do this out of frustration and anger. Maybe if so much of this Utah Big Game system was not corrupt, not a level playing field for all, there would not be so much B'in on this site. There are some who have been apart of this conservation tag/banquet/Expo BS. They have seen enough, heard enough, observed enough, partisipated in some way enough, or just been privy to inside info enough. To be able to make the statement "The system is broken and corrupt" A few are getting anything they want, at all others expence!! As long as the Regular guy just sets and complains,....takes no real action. This will continue!! "YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU TOLERATE"

 

[ElmerFudd]

All expo tags come out of the draw quotas, half from the nonresident 10% allocation, the other half from the resident 90% allocation. The auction tags are taken first. There is supposed to be some hunt rotaion, maybe some dark secret to how they pick hunts...

 

[Birdman]

8mmMag, Taking time to contact the DWR for the different things that are going on has been a real eye opener. Attending the auction of the tags for conservation tags was real interesting and enlightening. I had no idea. Attending the WLB meetings has also been interesting. I do not know any organization that gets all that they want. I think I have seen every organization turned down for one thing or another. It makes for a good thing. I know that there are those that think that Don Peay gets all he wants. He doesn't. Mile Moretti has not gotten what he wants. RMEF has not gotten what they want and etc. Problem is those meetings are not attended by many and sometimes no more than two or three people that are from the public. Watching has been very educational.

 

[jaswayne9]

I'm fairly new to the state, but I did take the time to research things. Didn't take long to see how it's been and what it will continue to be like in the state. SFW by far and away has had the greatest impact on wildlife management in the state, good or bad. Looking at passed board meetings and rac's, they usually get the benefit of the doubt on most issues they present. I suppose it is what it is, but to minimize that org's impact on the past, current and future management policies by making the statement they get turned down once in a while seens a but misleading. Just my opinion.

 

[grizzly]

Birdman, no doubt there are those that are ignorant of the issues... if you knew me, which you obviously don't, then you'd know that I am not one of them.

I attend meetings. I talk to Committee members. I understand which hunts are Landowner Tags (i.e. it says "LO" next to them). I also understand that there is 1 Moose Tag available to all Utah Residents at the Expo this year; each of the previous four years, there were 5. SFW still received three tags this year to auction to the highest bidder. That is right, Birdman, SFW got 3X as many tags as all of us Expo attendees combined.

You want to bring RMEF into this? RMEF actually lobbied to get the tags instead of SFW and MDF and said they would be totally transparent and return all money to the state. The state gave them to SFW anyway. So you are correct when you say RMEF didn't get what they wanted, but the average hunter would've been better off if they had.

 

[Tree]

In all fairness, RMEF's offer was to administrate the expo tags for 100k and return the remainder to the division. That'd still be about 500-550k more than is being currently returned.

http://unitedwildlifecooperative.org

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall be
exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural resources
for the public as a whole, for the average man and the
average woman who make up the body of the
American people."

 

[Birdman]

Grizzly, The conservation tags go on a three year setup while the expo tags come yearly. You will also notice that the DWR gave a ton of turkey tags this year. The rule states that there is up to 200 tags at the expo. SFW and MDF do not pick and choose the tags for the expo. The DWR does and the board approves it. Moose tags were cut this year across the state and the expo got the brunt. Do you think that SFW and MDF would be happy with all the turkey tags that are at the expo 200 draw. They want desirable tags, best that they can get to get people to put in.
RMEF can put in for control of the tags if they want. All they need to do is meet the criteria. It goes on a 5 year cycle meaning that their offer could not be accepted do to the contract that was there between the state and MDF. The moose tags that SFW has could have ended up with RMEF had they wanted to bid for them. They did not. They were more interested in other tags. The conservation tag auction or distribution is interesting how it works. Just turns out while taking turns for the tags that SFW was the one that ended up with 3 moose tags.