No Victims

bullskin

bullskin

Very Active Member
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I see no basis for MAGA complaints against Engoron. "Everyone got paid" and Trump actually pays what he would have if not for his own errors. No victims.

Who else but Trump could possibly complain about that?
 
bullskin said:
I see no basis for MAGA complaints against Engoron. "Everyone got paid" and Trump actually pays what he would have if not for his own errors. No victims.

Who else but Trump could possibly complain about that?
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WTF are you talking about??
 
I've never understood the "no victims" line. Loan fraud is committed at the application level, not at the repayment level... said another way, it doesn't require a default to be loan fraud.

I can't go fill out a fraudulent loan application to buy an investment property and get off the hook just because it worked out and I repaid the loan, it's still loan fraud.

If somebody fires a gun into a crowd, the fact that nobody gets hit doesn't exonerate the shooter. It's still a crime to shoot at another person. It doesn't even require the "victim" to press charges, the state does that... just like in New York.

Trump's financial penalty would've been greater had he defaulted, much like a shooters penalty would be greater if he killed somebody.

The system worked as intended. The accused got his day in court and was found guilty. He has an appeal process, which he'll lose, and he'll ultimately pay the fines or have his property seized. It's the same for you and me.
 
grizzly said:
I've never understood the "no victims" line. Loan fraud is committed at the application level, not at the repayment level... said another way, it doesn't require a default to be loan fraud.

I can't go fill out a fraudulent loan application to buy an investment property and get off the hook just because it worked out and I repaid the loan, it's still loan fraud.

If somebody fires a gun into a crowd, the fact that nobody gets hit doesn't exonerate the shooter. It's still a crime to shoot at another person. It doesn't even require the "victim" to press charges, the state does that... just like in New York.

Trump's financial penalty would've been greater had he defaulted, much like a shooters penalty would be greater if he killed somebody.

The system worked as intended. The accused got his day in court and was found guilty. He has an appeal process, which he'll lose, and he'll ultimately pay the fines or have his property seized. It's the same for you and me.
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https://babylonbee.com/news/letitia-james-seizes-mar-a-lago-sells-it-for-740-million
Lelitia James is the one committing fraud.
1708907066887.png
 
grizzly said:
I've never understood the "no victims" line. Loan fraud is committed at the application level, not at the repayment level... said another way, it doesn't require a default to be loan fraud.

I can't go fill out a fraudulent loan application to buy an investment property and get off the hook just because it worked out and I repaid the loan, it's still loan fraud.

If somebody fires a gun into a crowd, the fact that nobody gets hit doesn't exonerate the shooter. It's still a crime to shoot at another person. It doesn't even require the "victim" to press charges, the state does that... just like in New York.

Trump's financial penalty would've been greater had he defaulted, much like a shooters penalty would be greater if he killed somebody.

The system worked as intended. The accused got his day in court and was found guilty. He has an appeal process, which he'll lose, and he'll ultimately pay the fines or have his property seized. It's the same for you and me.
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You are dead right Grizzly, It worked exactly as intended, to cripple Trump financially during this campaign season.....
 
grizzly said:
That's obviously satirical, but the fact that Trump filed a document in 2020 stating it was worth only $28MM, under penalty of perjury, kind of proves the case.
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I thought the entire NYC case was for over valuing??
 
bullskin said:
You say that you have not love for Trump, yet you jump my ass for criticisms, yet have nothing to say to those who routinely complain about Biden. You are a hypocrite.
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Naw Bull I just love how ole trump lives in your head rent free haha 😂
 
Homer said:
WTF are you talking about??
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Trump. He argued that there were no victims in his NY trial, and I agree with him now that he has corrected his mistakes and has settled his debt. NOW there really are no victims. And, this includes him, too, despite his incessant whining about Engoron.
 
HntHrdr said:
Naw Bull I just love how ole trump lives in your head rent free haha 😂
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You are avoiding the issue. You could say exactly the same thing about a half-dozen guys who complain about Biden every day, but you do not, because you know you are Trump's boy.
 
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HntHrdr said:
What issues are those?
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I am simply responding to your claim that you do not love Trump. Yet, you take issue with criticism of your man, while ignoring criticisms of Biden and others. All of them deserve these criticisms, but you only jump in to deflect those directed at one man. You have a thing. You just don't acknowledge it.
 
Homer said:
did you see what Engoron said Mara lago was worth?
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Yes, and it will be interesting to see which estimate is closer--Trump's or Engoron's--when the day finally comes. Did you see what Trump claimed as the size of his apartment?
 
bullskin said:
I am simply responding to your claim that you do not love Trump. Yet, you take issue with criticism of your man, while ignoring criticisms of Biden and others. All of them deserve these criticisms, but you only jump in to deflect those directed at one man. You have a thing. You just don't acknowledge it.
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Don’t have a “man” haha just find it funny that you are obsessed with ole Trumpy
 
Let us be honest. The reason this case was brought forward was because Trump is running for president again. If his name had been Paul Pelosi no charges would have been filed by that N.Y. D.A.
Paul Pelosi made 1.5 million on a stock investment buy in 3 months time. A company that was recently given a subsidiary by the U.S. government, that increased the stock value by 50%, and Nancy Pelosi says she did not give him insider information about the upcoming subsidiary. Any one that believes her has no working brain cells. Where is the investigation on them and justice for their violations. Martha Stewart went to jail for her using insider information. Using possible insider information for stock buys has been going on for several times with the Pelosi family.
RELH
 
RELH said:
Let us be honest. The reason this case was brought forward was because Trump is running for president again. If his name had been Paul Pelosi no charges would have been filed by that N.Y. D.A.
Paul Pelosi made 1.5 million on a stock investment buy in 3 months time. A company that was recently given a subsidiary by the U.S. government, that increased the stock value by 50%, and Nancy Pelosi says she did not give him insider information about the upcoming subsidiary. Any one that believes her has no working brain cells. Where is the investigation on them and justice for their violations. Martha Stewart went to jail for her using insider information. Using possible insider information for stock buys has been going on for several times with the Pelosi family.
RELH
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"subsidy" might be the word you were searching for.....
 
Homer you are like that English teacher I had in high school that told me my writing looked like chicken scratch.:ROFLMAO:
 
Here's my heartburn with it. The bank sent out their own review of the properties and determined it to be in line with what he was stating and signed off on the loan. Even going as far as to say they would do business with him again. Companies in this line of business do this regularly where they say their property is worth X, then the bank goes out and does their own due diligence to verify it. Thus, there are no victims to reward with the said penalties. Meaning the state of NY will get a hefty chunk of change, and by the looks of it they may want to invest that wisely because it looks like some other property investment companies are now opting out of properties in NY after this case. I definitely think it is political, certainly does not seem applicable to those on the DEM side of things. I sometimes wish we had a viable 3rd party that might have other candidates to look at. Sadly we are living in the land of division and it is clear as day when each are at the helm.
 
scpaisley said:
Here's my heartburn with it. The bank sent out their own review of the properties and determined it to be in line with what he was stating and signed off on the loan. Even going as far as to say they would do business with him again. Companies in this line of business do this regularly where they say their property is worth X, then the bank goes out and does their own due diligence to verify it. Thus, there are no victims to reward with the said penalties. Meaning the state of NY will get a hefty chunk of change, and by the looks of it they may want to invest that wisely because it looks like some other property investment companies are now opting out of properties in NY after this case. I definitely think it is political, certainly does not seem applicable to those on the DEM side of things. I sometimes wish we had a viable 3rd party that might have other candidates to look at. Sadly we are living in the land of division and it is clear as day when each are at the helm.
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This is a non biased take if I have ever seen one…
 
scpaisley said:
Here's my heartburn with it. The bank sent out their own review of the properties and determined it to be in line with what he was stating and signed off on the loan. Even going as far as to say they would do business with him again. Companies in this line of business do this regularly where they say their property is worth X, then the bank goes out and does their own due diligence to verify it. Thus, there are no victims to reward with the said penalties. Meaning the state of NY will get a hefty chunk of change, and by the looks of it they may want to invest that wisely because it looks like some other property investment companies are now opting out of properties in NY after this case. I definitely think it is political, certainly does not seem applicable to those on the DEM side of things. I sometimes wish we had a viable 3rd party that might have other candidates to look at. Sadly we are living in the land of division and it is clear as day when each are at the helm.
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If one lies about income and assets in order to acquire a loan, the bank is probably not going to catch it. So, the law requires one to tell the truth--and the borrower attests to the fact when he signs. If the bank fails in its due diligence, they lose--unless, of course, they use their protection under the law to alter the contract after-the-fact. The bank is under no obligation to establish whether or not the borrower is lying before issuing the loan simply in the interest of protecting that borrower from his own misrepresentations. And, if there is anyone who understands that contracts may be altered for cause, it is Donald Trump. He has renegotiated many loans to save himself and his companies, even when the errors that lead to his inability to pay were his own. I find it ironic that now he complains when a contract is revised upon discovery of error--and especially when it was it own error and where he went afoul of the law. It is hard to blame anyone but Trump, for Trump.
 
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bullskin said:
If one lies about income and assets in order to acquire a loan, the bank is probably not going to catch it. So, the law requires one to tell the truth--and the borrower attests to the fact when he signs. If the bank fails in its due diligence, they lose--unless, of course, they use their protection under the law to alter the contract after-the-fact. The bank is under no obligation to establish whether or not the borrower is lying before issuing the loan simply in the interest of protecting that borrower from his own misrepresentations. And, if there is anyone who understands that contracts may be altered for cause, it is Donald Trump. He has renegotiated many loans to save himself and his companies, even when the errors that lead to his inability to pay were his own. I find it ironic that now he complains when a contract is revised upon discovery of error--and especially when it was it own error and where he went afoul of the law. It is hard to blame anyone but Trump, for Trump.
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You first sentence made me laugh out loud. Ummm have you ever tried to take a big loan out in the last 20 or so years? A mortgage in the mast 5 or so? Yeah the bank isn’t going to end up on the losing end. Family took out a 7 figure business loan to buy a partner out, not even close to being “big time” and they had us under a microscope big time before any money was loaned. Banks don’t make money giving out risky loans or not following up on their end…
 
HntHrdr said:
You first sentence made me laugh out loud. Ummm have you ever tried to take a big loan out in the last 20 or so years? A mortgage in the mast 5 or so? Yeah the bank isn’t going to end up on the losing end. Family took out a 7 figure business loan to buy a partner out, not even close to being “big time” and they had us under a microscope big time before any money was loaned. Banks don’t make money giving out risky loans or not following up on their end…
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Not sure what that has to do with my point, which is that Trump, of all people, cannot complain if the terms of his loan are adjusted to match his actual assets and comply with law. You claim that banks never lose is laughably naive, considering their experiences with Mr Trump and the refusal of Deutsche Bank (once his biggest lender) to continue business with his organization. It seems the only way he can raise money today is to beg on GoFundMe and sell really cool shoes.
 
Deutsche bank quit funding Trump due to the Jan. 6 demonstration and they felt he was disgraced by it. Several other liberal companies followed suit by no more donations to Trump or Republican party.
RELH
 
There are a lot of people doing mental gymnastics to justify fraud here. Jesus? Really?

THE BANK IS NOT REQUIRED TO VERIFY INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE BORROWER. THE BORROWER IS REQUIRED TO PROVIDE ACCURATE INFORMATION TO THE BANK. It literally says that in the contract. The bank never signs a paper saying they agree the information is correct. The borrower does sign a paper saying they provided accurate information.

For example, I cannot lie to a bank and say I have $10,000,000 in assets to secure favorable financing and then blame the bank for not verifying it when I get caught fabricating information.

That's exactly what Trump did. He lied about his assets to secure favorable loan terms.

THAT IS FRAUD!
 
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grizzly said:
THE BANK IS NOT REQUIRED TO VERIFY INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE BORROWER. THE BORROWER IS REQUIRED TO PROVIDE ACCURATE INFORMATION TO THE BANK. It literally says that in the contract. The bank never signs a paper saying they agree the information is correct. The borrower does sign a paper saying they provided accurate information.
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I agree, but even those who do not may find it hard to explain how Trump is being taken advantage of when all he has been asked to do is pay the interest that he would have if his application had been correct. How habituated to deceit is the man who complains about being forced to honor honest terms in his own loan application?
 
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bullskin said:
I agree, but even those who do not may find it hard to explain how Trump is being taken advantage of when all he has been asked to do is pay the interest that he would have if his application had been correct. How habituated to deceit is the man who complains about being forced to honor honest terms in his own loan application?
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Let's see them then enforce the law on every single violator in the state of NY? Why has NOBODY else been subject to this law?

I'd love to see them go after every business in NY and see where that gets them. We should be seeing all these other cases popping up.

Just admit it, it's a witch hunt.
 
It's amazing how many people love banks all of a sudden.

If Biden is going to forgive student loans shouldn't Biden be the one who has to pay them? Who protects the bank in this case? Talk about fraud.
 
Lie and bribe….how else are they going to get votes?

Lie and bribe, how ironic, pretty much sums up Biden’s entire political life doesn’t it?
 
eelgrass said:
It's amazing how many people love banks all of a sudden.
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I am fine with banks. If not for those willing to loan me money, I would not own a home. No one has to use a bank if they choose not to, so why would they complain about the terms of their loan? Makes no sense to me. Nobody is twisting their arm.

As for forgiving student loans, I agree completely. Why should taxpayers support those who are likely to earn the most money? Or farmers who do not grow crops? Or companies who made a killing during Covid, yet still receive taxpayer-funded contributions? No surprise here, but politicians buy votes, and neither party has a problem with it.
 
Flyjunky12 said:
Let's see them then enforce the law on every single violator in the state of NY? Why has NOBODY else been subject to this law?

I'd love to see them go after every business in NY and see where that gets them. We should be seeing all these other cases popping up.

Just admit it, it's a witch hunt.
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Admit it. You are lying when you say that nobody else has been subject to this law.

I, too, would be happy to see them go after every other business in NY that breaks it. But I wonder, why do so many who would like to see it enforced when it comes to any other business suddenly complain when it comes to Trump? You are guilty of the double standard that you falsely apply to others. Why don't you take the time to investigate the answer to your own question?
 
I, too, would be happy to see them go after every other business in NY that breaks it

The above is the reason some of the other real estate companies is now bailing out of New York. Fear that it will happen to them in the future by a city looking to collect millions to run their programs.
This is close to what happen in CA. when cackle Harris, now the V.P., was attorney general in CA. She diverted funds from the gang units and narcotics units and gave the funds to the unit that went after big business on civil violations in order to collect the many millons of dollars on fines. A lot of those companies went "exit stage left" and took their money and jobs with them to other states.
New York may end up hurting tax wise when some of these big real estate companies jump ship and take their tax dollars to Florida or Texas. Lets face it, Democrats will screw up a wet dream in a New York minute.
RELH
 
RELH said:
I, too, would be happy to see them go after every other business in NY that breaks it

The above is the reason some of the other real estate companies is now bailing out of New York. Fear that it will happen to them in the future by a city looking to collect millions to run their programs.
This is close to what happen in CA. when cackle Harris, now the V.P., was attorney general in CA. She diverted funds from the gang units and narcotics units and gave the funds to the unit that went after big business on civil violations in order to collect the many millons of dollars on fines. A lot of those companies went "exit stage left" and took their money and jobs with them to other states.
New York may end up hurting tax wise when some of these big real estate companies jump ship and take their tax dollars to Florida or Texas. Lets face it, Democrats will screw up a wet dream in a New York minute.
RELH
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All true But I would guess that New Yorkers and Californians alike will not lose much sleep over crooked companies that leave their states. It is like complaining that wealthy child molesters will take their businesses elsewhere. WTF cares? In the end, these companies can make plenty of money in any state they choose even when obeying the law, so I am guessing that most will not leave for that reason. Taxes, or lack of tax credits? Perhaps. But probably not because we expect them to obey anti-fraud laws that protect them as well. Perhaps I am wrong... but guess who is back in New York, asking banks to lend him 400 million dollars, after swearing to take his business elsewhere?
 
bullskin said:
All true But I would guess that New Yorkers and Californians alike will not lose much sleep over crooked companies that leave their states. It is like complaining that wealthy child molesters will take their businesses elsewhere. WTF cares? In the end, these companies can make plenty of money in any state they choose even when obeying the law, so I am guessing that most will not leave for that reason. Taxes, or lack of tax credits? Perhaps. But probably not because we expect them to obey anti-fraud laws that protect them as well. Perhaps I am wrong... but guess who is back in New York, asking banks to lend him 400 million dollars, after swearing to take his business elsewhere?
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Part of the sentence was that he could only use lenders within the confines of NY if I recall correctly.
 
New York

NY attorney general sues world's largest beef producer over methane emissions, climate commitments​


NY AG says company's net zero goals aren't feasible considering its high carbon footprint​

____________________________________________________________________
Well it seems that A.G. Letitia James was not satisfied with only getting millions from Trump. She is on a roll and nobody knows who will be next on her hit list.
RELH
 
Interesting…..you’d thinking “eating” would be considered part of “sustainability”……
 
Homer said:
Interesting…..you’d thinking “eating” would be considered part of “sustainability”……
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Well eating the heavily subsidized soy meat… alternatives which the greenies are invested in is part of their sustainability
 

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