NR ONLY EXPO SHEEP TAGS

[littlebighorn]

One of the things I dislike on this forum is "whining".
But here is a topic I feel like "whining" about.

The Expo gives a Rocky and a Desert Bighorn tag to Non-Residents Only. (I understand that this helps to draw non-residents to the Expo, which is OK by me).
My whine is, why have they chosen to give the NR Only sheep tags in the best units in the state,(Nine Mile/Zion)?
Then in the open draw, which is also open to non-residents, they give tags in less preferred units (New Foundlands/So San Rafael)?

While I support the Expo, I find this practice unacceptable.

 

[Zeke]

Well LBH, I see why you would feel that way.

It does seem like the chance at "any" desert or rocky tag would be enough of a draw to get the NR's here. I know that guys will be happy with any sheep tag since the ones I've had came from "mid-tier" units and I was ecstatic!

I think the NR's who are coming would do so regardless of which unit tags were given.

Let's give the top-tier units to to the residents and generously give the others to the NR's!

(of course it didn't matter since you and I drew nothing!)

Zeke

 

[TOPGUN]

From what I've read on these Forums about Expo attendance the last few years by NRs, it doesn't look like they're beating down the doors to get there and spend millions of dollars in SLC doing it!

 

[kevinp]

I spent all four days at the Expo. Helped allot of my Non-Resident friends fill out their applications while I was there.. Their biggest concern was applying for a unit and drawing a tag that would conflict with their hunting schedules in other states...LOL!..After looking at the list, it looks as if none of them have anything to worry about until next years applications...

Littlebighorn and Zeke, I agree with you on the Nonresident application for the Best Sheep areas...This needs to change!

 

[nvsportsman]

I agree, as a resident of Nevada, I believe all non residents should only be able to hunt rams where the success rates are low and the rams or below average size.

 

[Zeke]

Seems you missed the point just a little, and twisted things a bit to boot, but I can certainly see where your venom is coming from.

Should I explain the difference between an expo tag and a UDWR State draw tag and that we feel that the NR have every right to the best areas during the State draws.... or would you miscontrue that too?

When and where is the expo in NV so I can have another shot at a great tag?

Zeke

 

[nvsportsman]

Zeke, that's not how I interpreted your response. And are all expo tags allocated from the NR pool? I understand your point, but if you look at NR tag trending in NV I believe most of the NR in Nevada are killing the majority of the larger book rams.

 

[nvsportsman]

Silver state hunter for DBH- non resident.
Dream tag holder- non resident.

 

[littlebighorn]

nvsportsman,
No disrespect to NRs but Nevada is a prime example. NRs are not issued tags in several good sheep units in NV where they issue ample tags.(example unit 252) And your below average sheep are bigger than most Utah desert rams anyway.
My complaint is the Expo gives two sheep tags to NRs exclusively, in the best units. Residents can't even apply. The only option is for residents to apply in lesser units and NRs can still apply for those as well.
Theoretically the same non-resident could draw both Expo desert sheep tags in the same year. Rockys as well.

That would "fluff a little down", if that happened, wouldn't it?

I must have "cranky pants" today! lol

 

[nvsportsman]

Yes I certainly see your point. It has to be frustrating to have a Non Resident only OIL hunt. If that was to happen in my State I would be upset as well. So my apologies to you gentleman. I do however disagree with your statement on non residents and not hunting the BEST DBH units in Nevada. The checkout summaries will certainly reflect that.

 

[Zeke]

>Zeke, that's not how I interpreted
>your response. And are all
>expo tags allocated from the
>NR pool? I understand your
>point, but if you look
>at NR tag trending in
>NV I believe most of
>the NR in Nevada are
>killing the majority of the
>larger book rams.

I really do understand what you THOUGHT I was trying to say (I'll work on better communication). I would have had the same response as yours. I was only addressing the expo tags NOT draw tags.

I've only heard hearsay on where the tags come from. Sorry I don't know but I'm sure someone will have an OPINION.

The trending of NR killing the biggest sheep in NV might have more to do with the use of your State's great guides, and the time spent afield by the guide or hunter, than it does which unit they hunted. Just my thought.

Let me set the record straight right here: we're all NR everywhere we hunt except our home State. I LOVE being a NR and hunting elsewhere and love running into, and helping, NR here. We're all in this together.

Zeke

PS: The only fair system in one where I get a great tag every year! JK

 

[Zeke]

nvsportsman,
I've meant no disrespect to NR hunters, ever, and appreciate your views and comments. It keeps our conversation real and in perspective.
Zeke

 

[littlebighorn]

nvsportsman,
No apology necessary.
Your state is fair with NRs, and I agree that MOST(but not all, like 253 and 252) good Desert units in Nevada are given NR permits. I appreciate it and perhaps some day I might even draw.

I just got a burr under my sit-down and needed to excise it! Maybe it's the "cabin fever".

 

[Bobmuley]

>nvsportsman,
>No apology necessary.
>Your state is fair with NRs,
>and I agree that MOST(but
>not all, like 253 and
>252) good Desert units in
>Nevada are given NR permits.
> I appreciate it and
>perhaps some day I might
>even draw.
>
>I just got a burr under
>my sit-down and needed to
>excise it! Maybe it's
>the "cabin fever".


Hope you get it lanced...I'll be out huntin' with the GRATEFUL rocky hunter.

 

[brymoore]

What were the odds on the NR sheep tags?

 

[Outdoors]

>What were the odds on the
>NR sheep tags?

About 1 in 600 for NR tags at Expo. That nugget of info shows how few NR are drawn to the Expo.UT flushes 205 tags on what could be aptly call the Greater SLC Expo.

Subtract out the exhibitors in the booth that will apply, the Idaho kids at BYU that will apply, etc and the actual number of NR traveling from out-of-state to the Expo is 200 or less.

To put that in perspective, a home BYU or Utah State game will draw in 1000s of NR to stay in hotel rooms and spend money on meals and rental cars. And, no sheep tags are given out to fill the seats at the stadium.

 

[treedagain]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-13 AT 06:17PM (MST)[p]are we looking at a bump in sheep tags in UT?

this year they are giving 4 desert and 3 rocky/cali tags in the draw plus the 1 rocky and 1 desert at the expo to NR only....so are we to assume at least 50 desert and 40 cali/rocky tags for residents???

2013 #'s
5 desert and 4 rocky/cali are NR only

last year they only gave 31 rocky/cali tags (29 R and 2NR) and 39 desert total tags (36R and 3NR) residents and non-residents in the draw plus 7 desert tags in auctions and expo draws and 10 rocky/cali in auctions and expo draws...of which 1 NR desert and 1 rocky/cali NR which put the NR pool bigger than 10%


2012 total tag #'s
46 desert (39 draw, 7 other)
41 rocky/cali (31 draw, 10 other)

so roughly 15% of the desert tags were auctioned or expoed
and 25% of the rocky/cali auctioned or expoed

FYI i got these #'s by comparing what tags were given in the general draw and by 2012 harvest figures...



anybody know of any other non-resident only sheep tags out there to add?

do not take this as a complaint, i know that we need the auction tags to help in our sheep conservation etc.....just thought it was interesting to see...

 

[Zeke]

Interesting stuff.
I guess we'll see how close your number match up as soon as the actual hunt tag numbers are posted.
Thanks,
Zeke

 

[ElmerFudd]

The nonresident only tags were taken from the nonresident quota. Because of the expo tags, there are no nonresident tags to draw for those primo sheep hunts in the regular draw. Half the expo tags in total can come from the nonresident 10% quota, but that can be all the tags in some hunts. Thought was they didn't want to give out more nonresident tags due to everybody having an equal shot. They were hoping to pull at least equal numbers of nonresidents to the expo, but that didn't happen. Not even close. So now they are trying to add incentive to draw more nonresidents. Still not working. Realistically, the show should try to draw on it's own merits. Odds of drawing tags alone do not justify more expense and trouble than a few hours drive and a tank of gas... Duh!

 

[PleaseDear]

I am a non-ressy in every state but 1...

I draw a hell of allot more non-ressy tags than I do ressy tags...

I am all for benefiting non-ressy's and sharing our wonderful hunting on OIL/LE tags.

It is 'Your Year Rick' be cool brothaaaa! ha

Robb

 

[264mag]

>The nonresident only tags were taken
>from the nonresident quota. Because
>of the expo tags, there
>are no nonresident tags to
>draw for those primo sheep
>hunts in the regular draw.
>Half the expo tags in
>total can come from the
>nonresident 10% quota, but that
>can be all the tags
>in some hunts. Thought was
>they didn't want to give
>out more nonresident tags due
>to everybody having an equal
>shot. They were hoping to
>pull at least equal numbers
>of nonresidents to the expo,
>but that didn't happen. Not
>even close. So now they
>are trying to add incentive
>to draw more nonresidents. Still
>not working. Realistically, the show
>should try to draw on
>it's own merits. Odds of
>drawing tags alone do not
>justify more expense and trouble
>than a few hours drive
>and a tank of gas...
>Duh!
Well said Elmer

 

[Zeke]

This is the sound of me back-peddling!
It all makes sense now.
Zeke

 

[littlebighorn]

I would back-peddle too, if what Elmer says is true, but I don't know where he is getting his information.
Look at the 2013 Application book! It clearly states that there are Non-Resident sheep tags in both the Zion and Nine Mile on the regular draw. That is in addition to the Expo tags.

Then to rub salt in my now re-opened wound, NRs have the choice to hunt multiple units: i.e. Kaiparowitz includes East/West/Escalante, Potash includes San Juan/Lockhart, and San Rafael includes both North and South units, while Residents can only hunt the one unit they draw.
I think Utah treats NR sheep hunters plenty good.

Now I just have to stop thinking about it, because they are going to drop a resident tag in my unit to cover these tags!

 

[treedagain]

as i read LBH's post i realised that i missed a desert tag
so currenty we have

5 deserts in the MAIN UT DRAW for non-residents
1 desert in the EXPO DRAW for non-residents only

so are to assume 60 desert tags??? i kind of doubt that!!!!

for the sake of my resident sheep hunting friends i hope YOUR tag was not allocated in the NR pool

of course no offense to you NR hunters but i am rooting for the local boys and girls to have a shot at them....

 

[Bobmuley]

I root for the locals too. I am one. Just not local to you. I'm still rooting for the NR expo tag holder though; he's a great guy that'll pour his heart and soul into it and frankly, he deserves a sheep hunt after 28 years of applying in Colorado. Maybe with a little luck he'll get a tag on our side this year as well.

I do think that Utah is skewed to the nonresident in some cases(ie multiple drawings, multiple units, expo odds, etc.); but all in all it still isn't easy to get in...unless you have a wad of cash laying around and buy your way in. Maybe you should put some brakes on the cause of all those tags in the first place before it spreads east.

 

[nvsportsman]

I hope this year will be good to all of you. I hope all of you get the chance to hunt sheep in Nevada.

 

[sheepfever]

LBH,

Rick PM sent.

 

[ElmerFudd]

I just think the whole thing of taking tags out of the public draw to provide incentive to attend the expo is wrong. I'm never going to attend just for the chance to draw a tag alone due to the cost and trouble vs draw odds. I really don't care what they do with the tags once taken away from the regular draw. I feel the expo should sell itself on its own merits. That's all.

 

[bownutcolo]

Residents, I feel your pain, I do not like it when colorado does something like this, but I am very happy to be the one that drew the Rocky tag in the nine mile unit. I have been applying for desert sheep and elk in your state for 13 year, the other once in a life time for 6 years. I have 7 of the big eight in colo with a bow and am lacking the rocky mtn sheep, which I have applied for for 26 years,( i know they started over with the weighted system 13 years ago, I still have max points and weighted). I probably live closer to these utah sheep than most of the residents, and have hunted the bookcliffs all my life. I will do my best to hunt and take the best ram that I can find. I understand where you guys are coming from and feel your pain. I have hunted unit 21 in colo for 30 years and have helped many hunters from utah, because we are close and a great unit for deer (or was a great unit for deer). I'm not someone from the east that will not scout, infact I'm headed that way thios weekend.
bownutcolo

 

[treedagain]

good for you, i know you will have a great time, just do us all a favor and post up your pics and story when you are done.

 

[Bobmuley]

>good for you, i know you
>will have a great time,
>just do us all a
>favor and post up your
>pics and story when you
>are done.


Just might post pics for the next 8 months. Of course they'll be slightly less strategic until the hunts over.

 

[treedagain]

Bob, PM sent


How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait

 

[ColoradoOak]

bownutcolo, we share the same last name and live in the same town. Let me tell you, I got really excited for half a second when I looked at the expo results. Congrats on the tag.

 

[bownutcolo]

colorado oak,,,,, Sorry, but I got the voucher in the mail last night!!!!!

 

[bowhunt]

I agree with your concern LB.
It would be nice to know the process that is gone through to determine what unit is available for NR, and Expo NR.

 

[littlebighorn]

bownutco,
I have no hard feelings and I appreciate that you know how valuable that tag is. I have no doubt you will have a great time, especially since you live close the the unit. (I assume you live in the GJ area. My daughter lives down there and I visit often.)
My beef was only with the sometimes thoughtless decisions made by our big game coordinator. (who seems to care nothing about sheep).
I wish you well on your hunt. That unit is a great place to bow hunt, so we will look forward to pictures and story of your experience.
As a side note, I was able to get a great buck over in Co 21 two years ago. I had 18 pts to draw that unit and I hope you enjoy your hunt here as much as I did my hunt in your great state.
Good luck.

 

[bownutcolo]

littlebihorn,, pm message sent.

 

[bownutcolo]

scouting report,,,,, I've been to the unit more than every other weekend since I got the tag, I pretty much know what the terrain and habits of the sheep are. I've talked to lots of knowledgable people. I know where most of the roads and atv trails go, which I'm not to interested in, I have logged more that 30 miles on my boots in the unit. Dang sure glad I got the tag early, it's getting hot. I left the truck at 5:00 am saturday, got to first water spring at 10:00, then made a loop and back to truck about 6:00pm. I have 4 blister on one foot,and 2 on the other, I got 7 cameras out in the unit over the last 3 months, trying to find a really good ram. I don't believe a human has been to two of the springs in the last few years, they are not on current maps. I hope to be in sheep shape and know which ram I'm after before nov 1st!!!! At the ripe young age of 56, I'm enjoying every weekend.. I've applied in colo for 27 years now!!!!now to start studying the north east end!! river crossing are fun!!

 

[nmbighorn]

LBH, I feel your pain when you see NR get the best tags especially for Sheep, I live here in NM and as residents we have been screwed since 1978 when the Terk BS went into effect, I have applied in NM for sheep for(30 yrs) my first year applying the odds were 1 in 18.
I know of 3 residents that have drawn RMB, I don't know of any resident that has drawn DBH, just take last seasons drawing for example 93% (15 of 16) of our DBH tags went to NR. of course this after they were delisted. The raffle tags I believe also went to NR for the last 11 or 12 years and yes I have spent a good sum of money on the raffles as well.
I am even afraid to look or call and see who drew the Ram tags this season, it certainly sucks to see this happen to residents but hey at least someone has a ram tag in there pocket this season, just wish it would be a Resident or hell maybe for once ME!

NMBIGHORN

 

[littlebighorn]

Ouch!! nm.
I didn't realize all those tags were open to everyone. At the NR price New Mexico is probably glad to give them all to NRs.
That is a bite in the shorts for those of you who pay the state tax man!

bownutcolo,
You sound obsessed! I envy you, having that kind of time in the unit at this point. Obviously you will be ready come November. I am guessing you will be chomping at the bit for opening morning.
PM or email me on your progress.

Best of luck to all lucky sheep hunters. I guess my highlight trip this year will be a week fishing in the Windrivers.