NR special draw license went WAY up...

[mulecreek]

Yeah, @mulecreek that one went right over his head.

Sarcasm can be tough to spot in writing

 

[SS!]

@jims you’ve inspired me with your talk of youth not being able to afford preference points. We have foundations that help kids go to college, programs to help people get housing and food, why not preference points?

I tell you what, you setup the foundation to provide points for the youth and I’ll help you get it going with a $1000.00 donation. I’m sure I know others who would donate to such a cause.

With your network of people I’m sure you will not need help getting it going but feel free to reach out. Thanks!

 

[jims]

I'm just trying to give a wake-up call to where hunting seems to be headed in Wyoming. The reason I brought up sheep and moose up is the fact that these changes have already happened and impact every DIY/OYO nonres hunter.

The guide in wilderness law impacts every DIY/OYO nonres. Now the extreme price for these tags and pref pt fees illustrates the direction Wyoming continues to follow for DIY/OYO nonres hunters.

I'm not saying that nonres youth ought to not wait in line for high demand tags but am trying to bring attention to the fact that the future of nonres youth opportunities in Wyo are slowly but surely disappearing.

Nonres youth options are pretty much already gone for sheep and moose! $150/year for a pref pt, $3,000 for a sheep tag, and $15,000 for a guided hunt in wilderness illustrates this fact. It's pretty easy to see how Wyoming has priced most nonres DIY/OYO hunters and youth hunters totally out of Wyo sheep hunts.

Can you understand now why I bring sheep and moose up? What is next Wyoming? I think it's great that Wyo residents stood up to outfitter set asides and transferable landowner tags in Task Force Meetings! There certainly is hope that the right tough decisions are made that impact every DIY/OYO resident and nonresident Wyoming hunter!

I copied this from the very first post on this subject above:

"While these price increases might seem logical to some, the increase in non-resident prices for sheep, moose, goat and bison is more suspicious. In an interesting twist, last year the Wyoming Legislature decreased the non-resident allocation for these tags by about 35% on average. This year the state increased the price for these tags by about 50%, what a coincidence some might say."

"In the end, the price for a non-resident sheep tag in Wyoming will rise by about 30% from $2,335 to $3,017. The non-resident moose license saw the largest increase from $1,997 to now a whopping $2,767, an increase of nearly 40%. The goat and bison licenses increased by 27% and 36% respectively. At these rates, every non-resident sheep tag sold equals nearly 20 resident sheep tags in revenue, not bad for the Department’s budget. I guess that 90/10 cut doesn’t hurt too bad after all.

The fact remains, this sport is getting ever more expensive no matter how you cut it. As more and more states continue to struggle with big game management more and more pressure is put on the Wyoming draw system, and I don’t see any end in sight for this trend. Buckle up, this is going to be a very rough year for draws and costs and it could just be the beginning."

 

[jm77]

I'm just trying to give a wake-up call to where hunting seems to be headed in Wyoming. The reason I brought up sheep and moose up is the fact that these changes have already happened and impact every DIY/OYO nonres hunter.

The guide in wilderness law impacts every DIY/OYO nonres. Now the extreme price for these tags and pref pt fees illustrates the direction Wyoming continues to follow for DIY/OYO nonres hunters.

I'm not saying that nonres youth ought to not wait in line for high demand tags but am trying to bring attention to the fact that the future of nonres youth opportunities in Wyo are slowly but surely disappearing.

Nonres youth options are pretty much already gone for sheep and moose! $150/year for a pref pt, $3,000 for a sheep tag, and $15,000 for a guided hunt in wilderness illustrates this fact. It's pretty easy to see how Wyoming has priced most nonres DIY/OYO hunters and youth hunters totally out of Wyo sheep hunts.

Can you understand now why I bring sheep and moose up? What is next Wyoming? I think it's great that Wyo residents stood up to outfitter set asides and transferable landowner tags in Task Force Meetings! There certainly is hope that the right tough decisions are made that impact every DIY/OYO resident and nonresident Wyoming hunter!

I copied this from the very first post on this subject above:

"While these price increases might seem logical to some, the increase in non-resident prices for sheep, moose, goat and bison is more suspicious. In an interesting twist, last year the Wyoming Legislature decreased the non-resident allocation for these tags by about 35% on average. This year the state increased the price for these tags by about 50%, what a coincidence some might say."

"In the end, the price for a non-resident sheep tag in Wyoming will rise by about 30% from $2,335 to $3,017. The non-resident moose license saw the largest increase from $1,997 to now a whopping $2,767, an increase of nearly 40%. The goat and bison licenses increased by 27% and 36% respectively. At these rates, every non-resident sheep tag sold equals nearly 20 resident sheep tags in revenue, not bad for the Department’s budget. I guess that 90/10 cut doesn’t hurt too bad after all.

The fact remains, this sport is getting ever more expensive no matter how you cut it. As more and more states continue to struggle with big game management more and more pressure is put on the Wyoming draw system, and I don’t see any end in sight for this trend. Buckle up, this is going to be a very rough year for draws and costs and it could just be the beginning."

Please advise what state is better than Wyoming for sheep and moose tags and the draw odds, license fee, and availability of same.

 

[DaveD]

I'm just trying to give a wake-up call to where hunting seems to be headed in Wyoming. The reason I brought up sheep and moose up is the fact that these changes have already happened and impact every DIY/OYO nonres hunter.

The guide in wilderness law impacts every DIY/OYO nonres. Now the extreme price for these tags and pref pt fees illustrates the direction Wyoming continues to follow for DIY/OYO nonres hunters.

I'm not saying that nonres youth ought to not wait in line for high demand tags but am trying to bring attention to the fact that the future of nonres youth opportunities in Wyo are slowly but surely disappearing.

Nonres youth options are pretty much already gone for sheep and moose! $150/year for a pref pt, $3,000 for a sheep tag, and $15,000 for a guided hunt in wilderness illustrates this fact. It's pretty easy to see how Wyoming has priced most nonres DIY/OYO hunters and youth hunters totally out of Wyo sheep hunts.

Can you understand now why I bring sheep and moose up? What is next Wyoming? I think it's great that Wyo residents stood up to outfitter set asides and transferable landowner tags in Task Force Meetings! There certainly is hope that the right tough decisions are made that impact every DIY/OYO resident and nonresident Wyoming hunter!

I copied this from the very first post on this subject above:

"While these price increases might seem logical to some, the increase in non-resident prices for sheep, moose, goat and bison is more suspicious. In an interesting twist, last year the Wyoming Legislature decreased the non-resident allocation for these tags by about 35% on average. This year the state increased the price for these tags by about 50%, what a coincidence some might say."

"In the end, the price for a non-resident sheep tag in Wyoming will rise by about 30% from $2,335 to $3,017. The non-resident moose license saw the largest increase from $1,997 to now a whopping $2,767, an increase of nearly 40%. The goat and bison licenses increased by 27% and 36% respectively. At these rates, every non-resident sheep tag sold equals nearly 20 resident sheep tags in revenue, not bad for the Department’s budget. I guess that 90/10 cut doesn’t hurt too bad after all.

The fact remains, this sport is getting ever more expensive no matter how you cut it. As more and more states continue to struggle with big game management more and more pressure is put on the Wyoming draw system, and I don’t see any end in sight for this trend. Buckle up, this is going to be a very rough year for draws and costs and it could just be the beginning."

I am a non resident that was impacted negatively when the switch to 90/10 happened. I'm still not happy about it. That said, I really don't feel non residents should even have a seat at the table for moose and sheep. The resource is so limited, there really isn't enough to go around. Resident youth starting now are going to wait a lifetime to draw. Should they really have to compete with non residents? I think the WG&F gets that but they have no way out of the situation other than refunding which they won't ever do. The compromise is give away 10% of the tags to make a pile of cash. Guessing they could charge 10k and have people waiting in line.

 

[nfh]

@jims you’ve inspired me with your talk of youth not being able to afford preference points. We have foundations that help kids go to college, programs to help people get housing and food, why not preference points?

I tell you what, you setup the foundation to provide points for the youth and I’ll help you get it going with a $1000.00 donation. I’m sure I know others who would donate to such a cause.

With your network of people I’m sure you will not need help getting it going but feel free to reach out. Thanks!

For 2023 a 11 year old got a sheep and his brother that is 12 got a mountain goat.

I can PM pics if you want to see

 

[SS!]

Please advise what state is better than Wyoming for sheep and moose tags and the draw odds, license fee, and availability of same.

Alaska! what do I win?

 

[jm77]

Alaska! what do I win?

Give that man a kewpie doll!

 

[SS!]

For 2023 a 11 year old got a sheep and his brother that is 12 got a mountain goat.

I can PM pics if you want to see

That’s crazy but exactly what the Shady Sebastian Foundation for kids will be all about!

 

[jims]

Nonres sheep tags are way less in every bordering state surrounding Wyo.

How much is an unlimited nonres sheep tag in Montana? It’s around $800 less.

The last time I checked a nonres sheep tag in Colo was $500 less, Utah $700 less, and Idaho $400 less than Wyo.

Also, none of these states require a guide in wilderness! Is Wyo nonres-friendly to DIY/OYO sheep hunters? It’s the worse in the lower 48!

 

[BuzzH]

Nonres sheep tags are way less in every bordering state surrounding Wyo.

How much is an unlimited nonres sheep tag in Montana? It’s around $800 less.

The last time I checked a nonres sheep tag in Colo was $500 less, Utah $700 less, and Idaho $400 less than Wyo.

Also, none of these states require a guide in wilderness! Is Wyo nonres-friendly to DIY/OYO sheep hunters? It’s the worse in the lower 48!

So have kids apply in Colorado, Utah, Montana, and Idaho...problem solved.

Also, there are ways for a NR to hunt wilderness without paying a guide.

 

[jm77]

So have kids apply in Colorado, Utah, Montana, and Idaho...problem solved.

Dang it Buzz, you beat me to it!

 

[jims]

Great excuses that don't solve the problem of where DIY/OYO nonres hunting is headed to in Wyo!

 

[DaveD]

JI'm, it isn't just Wyoming. It is the entire west. Demand far exceeds supply, by a lot. No law changes, rule changes, or complaining will change that. It's sad but we need to come to that realization. I'm thankful for the opportunities that remain but we can't take anything for granted. Enjoy those tags when you get them like they are your last.

 

[Sparks Shooter]

Great excuses that don't solve the problem of where DIY/OYO nonres hunting is headed to in Wyo!

Hopefully Wyoming and all western states are headed to a place where Res hunting trumps NonRes hunting.......by far! #ResLivesMatter------SS

 

[SS!]

Great excuses that don't solve the problem of where DIY/OYO nonres hunting is headed to in Wyo!

 

[jims]

Great attitude!

Yep, at any cost screw nonres DIY/OYO hunters and.continue to allow hunting as we know it benefit those with deep pockets!

On a positive note, it was a giant leap in the right direction eliminating the concept of set aside tags for outfitters and landowners in highly debated task force meetings. I certainly hope that mindset continues down the road in all Western states that ultimately benefits both res and nonres diy/oyo hunters!

 

[Sparks Shooter]

Great attitude!

Yep, at any cost screw nonres DIY/OYO hunters and.continue to allow hunting as we know it benefit those with deep pockets!

On a positive note, it was a giant leap in the right direction eliminating the concept of set aside tags for outfitters and landowners in highly debated task force meetings. I certainly hope that mindset continues down the road in all Western states that ultimately benefits both res and nonres diy/oyo hunters!

My opinion is that you are overinflating the magnitude of the "great price increase" The fact is that middle and even lower class folks routinely spend much more on hobbies, vacations, and other habits. It boils down to how you want to spend your money. You obviously don't think hunting in Wyoming is similar in value to a golf excursion or a trip out of town to see a good concert or sporting event. I, as a middle income American, think it is worth it and will gladly pay the price to play.

Also, what doesn't benefit 'those with deep pockets'? Even when we try, we can never overcome this fact. We even give people welfare and foodstamps to try and make it a bit more 'fair'.

Jims, maybe you could propose a tag stamps program where folks who don't want to work as hard can get some vouchers from the gubmint to help pay for expensive tags? Maybe instead of free cheese, you could start a program to give away free bullets and arrows?------SS

 

[Togwotee]

There are lots of problems but the game law enforcement is not one of them and that goes for every state I've hunted in. in fact it's probably about the only thing we get for our tag fees in most states.

 

[Rie bread]

I’d prefer to keep barriers up in hunting. To many of you out there

 

[BenHuntn]

Correct.

First things first, Nesvik being on that task farse was a direct conflict of interest. Its shocking the Governor allowed him to participate (well, not really considering who we have as a Governor).

Second, there was NO WAY Nesvik was going to say anything to stop, or even slow down a fee increase.

The fee increase and going to 3 regions for non-residents General elk tags was pushed by the Outfitters lobbing. They bent Nesvik ear and got the Legislature to buy off on it. Told to me by an Outfitter in a General elk unit.

 

[jm77]

The fee increase and going to 3 regions for non-residents General elk tags was pushed by the Outfitters lobbing. They bent Nesvik ear and got the Legislature to buy off on it. Told to me by an Outfitter in a General elk unit.

This is right except it was changed by the Commission in regulation, not the Legislature. The outfitters(WYOGA) didn't even show to the meeting, they knew it was a done deal. Very corrupt.

 

[Jerry]

You’ve created a new demographic amongst the American Populace. “Blue Collar Youth”

The lousy Wyoming treatment has made me give up entirely on that states hunting ! I’m done !
And I’ve hunted antelope every year possible since’78- love to hunt the antelope!! What they did was outrageous! Not playing their game any more- huge winter kills just wiped out the antelope & so many deer too!
Jerry Gold- Windsor, Colorado

 

[LIK2HNT]

Well that’s one less tag you have to worry about turning back in.

The lousy Wyoming treatment has made me give up entirely on that states hunting ! I’m done !
And I’ve hunted antelope every year possible since’78- love to hunt the antelope!! What they did was outrageous! Not playing their game any more- huge winter kills just wiped out the antelope & so many deer too!
Jerry Gold- Windsor, Colorado

 

[SS!]

The lousy Wyoming treatment has made me give up entirely on that states hunting ! I’m done !
And I’ve hunted antelope every year possible since’78- love to hunt the antelope!! What they did was outrageous! Not playing their game any more- huge winter kills just wiped out the antelope & so many deer too!
Jerry Gold- Windsor, Colorado

Jerry buddy did you take the red pill instead of the blue pill?

 

[Jerry]

As a NR that hunts in WY every year, this is a punch in the gut.


I would assume this will push some hunters to start sitting out a year to grab a point to avoid the special draw and just apply in the regular with a point in some units.

The silver lining is that, at least in the area I hunt, this should allow the tag to be all but guaranteed in the "special" for several years to come.

Just sharing information...credit to EHJ on the article I copy/pasted below...

More Price Increases in Wyoming​

By Guy Eastman​

A new year has brought an ugly surprise for non-resident big game applicants in Wyoming. A very steep price increase is on the very near horizon for the “Special Draw” applications for non-resident deer, elk and antelope licenses. In addition, the prices on sheep, moose, goat and bison were also hiked for the new year as well.
The news is not all bad however, the “Regular Draw” prices for non-resident applicants where held steady as well as all resident license and preference point pricing.

As sure as time itself, a price increase was bound to happen at some point. Particularly considering the fact that the regular versus special draw has grown into parity, and in some cases the regular, cheaper draw actually had better odds over the past few years for a few hunts, which had the opposite of the intended effect on applicant behaviors, the logical decision was to increase the price of the special in an effort to push more applicants in to the cheaper draw and out of the special drawing.
The net effect is non-resident special elk went from $1,283 to now $1,965, a 53% net increase, while the special deer application went from $677 to $1,216, a net increase of 79%, and the special antelope license saw the steepest increase of more than 93%, from $629 to now $1,215. Needless to say, this will surely generate a substantial increase in revenue for the department from desperate non-resident hunters.

While these price increases might seem logical to some, the increase in non-resident prices for sheep, moose, goat and bison is more suspicious. In an interesting twist, last year the Wyoming Legislature decreased the non-resident allocation for these tags by about 35% on average. This year the state increased the price for these tags by about 50%, what a coincidence some might say.

In the end, the price for a non-resident sheep tag in Wyoming will rise by about 30% from $2,335 to $3,017. The non-resident moose license saw the largest increase from $1,997 to now a whopping $2,767, an increase of nearly 40%. The goat and bison licenses increased by 27% and 36% respectively. At these rates, every non-resident sheep tag sold equals nearly 20 resident sheep tags in revenue, not bad for the Department’s budget. I guess that 90/10 cut doesn’t hurt too bad after all.

The fact remains, this sport is getting ever more expensive no matter how you cut it. As more and more states continue to struggle with big game management more and more pressure is put on the Wyoming draw system, and I don’t see any end in sight for this trend. Buckle up, this is going to be a very rough year for draws and costs and it could just be the beginning.

Stewart- This article says it all !! That’s one of the
many reasons I ditched Wyoming antelope , deer, elk for ever . Two can play that game. To hell with them. Lots of hunters ditching Wyoming game - especially antelope. 80-90% losses did the trick last 2 winters. Plus monster license $$ increases across the board. Glad we still have some chances in Colorado!
Jerry

 

[LIK2HNT]

Probably is how many 80 inch plus antelope come out of Colorado compared to Wyoming. And I am talking public land.

 

[hossblur]

Simple reality is Wyoming will know when they pushed it too high when there are tags left.

Sucks that the western states have decided mutually assured destruction is the way they want to proceed.

 

[Jerry]

This is right except it was changed by the Commission in regulation, not the Legislature. The outfitters(WYOGA) didn't even show to the meeting, they knew it was a done deal. Very corrupt.

So true- very corrupt all across the board !!!!
Jerry