Sarcasm can be tough to spot in writing
NR special draw license went WAY up...
- Thread starter Buckfever34
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SS!
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@jims you’ve inspired me with your talk of youth not being able to afford preference points. We have foundations that help kids go to college, programs to help people get housing and food, why not preference points?
I tell you what, you setup the foundation to provide points for the youth and I’ll help you get it going with a $1000.00 donation. I’m sure I know others who would donate to such a cause.
With your network of people I’m sure you will not need help getting it going but feel free to reach out. Thanks!
I tell you what, you setup the foundation to provide points for the youth and I’ll help you get it going with a $1000.00 donation. I’m sure I know others who would donate to such a cause.
With your network of people I’m sure you will not need help getting it going but feel free to reach out. Thanks!
I'm just trying to give a wake-up call to where hunting seems to be headed in Wyoming. The reason I brought up sheep and moose up is the fact that these changes have already happened and impact every DIY/OYO nonres hunter.
The guide in wilderness law impacts every DIY/OYO nonres. Now the extreme price for these tags and pref pt fees illustrates the direction Wyoming continues to follow for DIY/OYO nonres hunters.
I'm not saying that nonres youth ought to not wait in line for high demand tags but am trying to bring attention to the fact that the future of nonres youth opportunities in Wyo are slowly but surely disappearing.
Nonres youth options are pretty much already gone for sheep and moose! $150/year for a pref pt, $3,000 for a sheep tag, and $15,000 for a guided hunt in wilderness illustrates this fact. It's pretty easy to see how Wyoming has priced most nonres DIY/OYO hunters and youth hunters totally out of Wyo sheep hunts.
Can you understand now why I bring sheep and moose up? What is next Wyoming? I think it's great that Wyo residents stood up to outfitter set asides and transferable landowner tags in Task Force Meetings! There certainly is hope that the right tough decisions are made that impact every DIY/OYO resident and nonresident Wyoming hunter!
I copied this from the very first post on this subject above:
"While these price increases might seem logical to some, the increase in non-resident prices for sheep, moose, goat and bison is more suspicious. In an interesting twist, last year the Wyoming Legislature decreased the non-resident allocation for these tags by about 35% on average. This year the state increased the price for these tags by about 50%, what a coincidence some might say."
"In the end, the price for a non-resident sheep tag in Wyoming will rise by about 30% from $2,335 to $3,017. The non-resident moose license saw the largest increase from $1,997 to now a whopping $2,767, an increase of nearly 40%. The goat and bison licenses increased by 27% and 36% respectively. At these rates, every non-resident sheep tag sold equals nearly 20 resident sheep tags in revenue, not bad for the Department’s budget. I guess that 90/10 cut doesn’t hurt too bad after all.
The fact remains, this sport is getting ever more expensive no matter how you cut it. As more and more states continue to struggle with big game management more and more pressure is put on the Wyoming draw system, and I don’t see any end in sight for this trend. Buckle up, this is going to be a very rough year for draws and costs and it could just be the beginning."
The guide in wilderness law impacts every DIY/OYO nonres. Now the extreme price for these tags and pref pt fees illustrates the direction Wyoming continues to follow for DIY/OYO nonres hunters.
I'm not saying that nonres youth ought to not wait in line for high demand tags but am trying to bring attention to the fact that the future of nonres youth opportunities in Wyo are slowly but surely disappearing.
Nonres youth options are pretty much already gone for sheep and moose! $150/year for a pref pt, $3,000 for a sheep tag, and $15,000 for a guided hunt in wilderness illustrates this fact. It's pretty easy to see how Wyoming has priced most nonres DIY/OYO hunters and youth hunters totally out of Wyo sheep hunts.
Can you understand now why I bring sheep and moose up? What is next Wyoming? I think it's great that Wyo residents stood up to outfitter set asides and transferable landowner tags in Task Force Meetings! There certainly is hope that the right tough decisions are made that impact every DIY/OYO resident and nonresident Wyoming hunter!
I copied this from the very first post on this subject above:
"While these price increases might seem logical to some, the increase in non-resident prices for sheep, moose, goat and bison is more suspicious. In an interesting twist, last year the Wyoming Legislature decreased the non-resident allocation for these tags by about 35% on average. This year the state increased the price for these tags by about 50%, what a coincidence some might say."
"In the end, the price for a non-resident sheep tag in Wyoming will rise by about 30% from $2,335 to $3,017. The non-resident moose license saw the largest increase from $1,997 to now a whopping $2,767, an increase of nearly 40%. The goat and bison licenses increased by 27% and 36% respectively. At these rates, every non-resident sheep tag sold equals nearly 20 resident sheep tags in revenue, not bad for the Department’s budget. I guess that 90/10 cut doesn’t hurt too bad after all.
The fact remains, this sport is getting ever more expensive no matter how you cut it. As more and more states continue to struggle with big game management more and more pressure is put on the Wyoming draw system, and I don’t see any end in sight for this trend. Buckle up, this is going to be a very rough year for draws and costs and it could just be the beginning."
jm77
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Please advise what state is better than Wyoming for sheep and moose tags and the draw odds, license fee, and availability of same.
DaveD
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I am a non resident that was impacted negatively when the switch to 90/10 happened. I'm still not happy about it. That said, I really don't feel non residents should even have a seat at the table for moose and sheep. The resource is so limited, there really isn't enough to go around. Resident youth starting now are going to wait a lifetime to draw. Should they really have to compete with non residents? I think the WG&F gets that but they have no way out of the situation other than refunding which they won't ever do. The compromise is give away 10% of the tags to make a pile of cash. Guessing they could charge 10k and have people waiting in line.
SS!
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Alaska!
what do I win?Nonres sheep tags are way less in every bordering state surrounding Wyo.
How much is an unlimited nonres sheep tag in Montana? It’s around $800 less.
The last time I checked a nonres sheep tag in Colo was $500 less, Utah $700 less, and Idaho $400 less than Wyo.
Also, none of these states require a guide in wilderness! Is Wyo nonres-friendly to DIY/OYO sheep hunters? It’s the worse in the lower 48!
How much is an unlimited nonres sheep tag in Montana? It’s around $800 less.
The last time I checked a nonres sheep tag in Colo was $500 less, Utah $700 less, and Idaho $400 less than Wyo.
Also, none of these states require a guide in wilderness! Is Wyo nonres-friendly to DIY/OYO sheep hunters? It’s the worse in the lower 48!
BuzzH
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So have kids apply in Colorado, Utah, Montana, and Idaho...problem solved.
Also, there are ways for a NR to hunt wilderness without paying a guide.
jm77
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Dang it Buzz, you beat me to it!
DaveD
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JI'm, it isn't just Wyoming. It is the entire west. Demand far exceeds supply, by a lot. No law changes, rule changes, or complaining will change that. It's sad but we need to come to that realization. I'm thankful for the opportunities that remain but we can't take anything for granted. Enjoy those tags when you get them like they are your last.
Sparks Shooter
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Hopefully Wyoming and all western states are headed to a place where Res hunting trumps NonRes hunting.......by far! #ResLivesMatter------SS
SS!
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Great attitude!
Yep, at any cost screw nonres DIY/OYO hunters and.continue to allow hunting as we know it benefit those with deep pockets!
On a positive note, it was a giant leap in the right direction eliminating the concept of set aside tags for outfitters and landowners in highly debated task force meetings. I certainly hope that mindset continues down the road in all Western states that ultimately benefits both res and nonres diy/oyo hunters!
Yep, at any cost screw nonres DIY/OYO hunters and.continue to allow hunting as we know it benefit those with deep pockets!
On a positive note, it was a giant leap in the right direction eliminating the concept of set aside tags for outfitters and landowners in highly debated task force meetings. I certainly hope that mindset continues down the road in all Western states that ultimately benefits both res and nonres diy/oyo hunters!
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Sparks Shooter
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My opinion is that you are overinflating the magnitude of the "great price increase" The fact is that middle and even lower class folks routinely spend much more on hobbies, vacations, and other habits. It boils down to how you want to spend your money. You obviously don't think hunting in Wyoming is similar in value to a golf excursion or a trip out of town to see a good concert or sporting event. I, as a middle income American, think it is worth it and will gladly pay the price to play.
Also, what doesn't benefit 'those with deep pockets'? Even when we try, we can never overcome this fact. We even give people welfare and foodstamps to try and make it a bit more 'fair'.
Jims, maybe you could propose a tag stamps program where folks who don't want to work as hard can get some vouchers from the gubmint to help pay for expensive tags? Maybe instead of free cheese, you could start a program to give away free bullets and arrows?------SS
BenHuntn
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The fee increase and going to 3 regions for non-residents General elk tags was pushed by the Outfitters lobbing. They bent Nesvik ear and got the Legislature to buy off on it. Told to me by an Outfitter in a General elk unit.
jm77
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This is right except it was changed by the Commission in regulation, not the Legislature. The outfitters(WYOGA) didn't even show to the meeting, they knew it was a done deal. Very corrupt.
The lousy Wyoming treatment has made me give up entirely on that states hunting ! I’m done !You’ve created a new demographic amongst the American Populace. “Blue Collar Youth”
And I’ve hunted antelope every year possible since’78- love to hunt the antelope!! What they did was outrageous! Not playing their game any more- huge winter
kills just wiped out the antelope & so many deer 
too!Jerry Gold- Windsor, Colorado
LIK2HNT
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Well that’s one less tag you have to worry about turning back in.
The lousy Wyoming treatment has made me give up entirely on that states hunting ! I’m done !
And I’ve hunted antelope every year possible since’78- love to hunt the antelope!! What they did was outrageous! Not playing their game any more- huge winter
Jerry Gold- Windsor, Colorado
SS!
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Jerry buddy did you take the red pill instead of the blue pill?The lousy Wyoming treatment has made me give up entirely on that states hunting ! I’m done !
And I’ve hunted antelope every year possible since’78- love to hunt the antelope!! What they did was outrageous! Not playing their game any more- huge winter
Jerry Gold- Windsor, Colorado
Stewart- This article says it all !! That’s one of the
many reasons I ditched Wyoming antelope , deer, elk for ever . Two can play that game. To hell with them. Lots of hunters ditching Wyoming game - especially antelope. 80-90% losses did the trick last 2 winters. Plus monster license $$ increases across the board. Glad we still have some chances in Colorado!
Jerry
Anyway, back to the original subject.
With the elk draw results coming up it will be interesting to see what changes to the draw odds there will be. I really think the odds on elk are easier to predict that deer and pronghorn will be.
I expect odds for high demand elk tags may even drop on special, mid level tag odds will improve some and lower demand tags will be guaranteed.
On deer/pronghorn I think odds will increase across the board , mid level tags will definitely get a big boost . I question how many hunters will pay that much for the quality and quantity WY has right now. that's my theory anyway, so I applied for special deer.
If the elk results show a big surprise I guess I'll modify my application if there's time.
With the elk draw results coming up it will be interesting to see what changes to the draw odds there will be. I really think the odds on elk are easier to predict that deer and pronghorn will be.
I expect odds for high demand elk tags may even drop on special, mid level tag odds will improve some and lower demand tags will be guaranteed.
On deer/pronghorn I think odds will increase across the board , mid level tags will definitely get a big boost . I question how many hunters will pay that much for the quality and quantity WY has right now. that's my theory anyway, so I applied for special deer.
If the elk results show a big surprise I guess I'll modify my application if there's time.
chrisamx
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"Fight amongst yourselves...." - a very profound statement, which I am sure Government Agencies and Environmental groups are all aware of, and use successfully against us often.
Everybody is thinking the same thing and that's why I predict special odds aren't going to improve much.
SDBugler
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My theory is that the special Preference draw probably won't change, especially in the high point units. Those guys have already invested a LOT of time and money building those points. I don't think the increased cost will push them to switch over to the regular cost draw. I think point creep will continue at the same rate in both special and regular draws.
There will probably be a slight decrease in numbers of applications showing up in the special random draw in many of the very hard to draw units. I predict this as guys who were previously putting in with no chance of drawing in the special preference draw that were hoping to pull a special random tag probably won't be fronting the higher fee this year. I would guess that as a result, the regular random draw odds will get worse.
I think with the new pricing, guys will build points and put in on the regular side until they get close to drawing the tag they want, and then they will jump to the special side when they get close to enough points.
To summarize:
Special preference - no change will steel see point creep continue at same rate.
Regular preference - no change will steel see point creep continue at same rate.
Special random - slight decrease in the number of applicants in the draws.
Regular random - slight increase in the number of applicants in the draws.
I could be totally wrong though.
In any event, it will take a few years before things settle down to a new normal. And about that time 90/10 will hit.
There will probably be a slight decrease in numbers of applications showing up in the special random draw in many of the very hard to draw units. I predict this as guys who were previously putting in with no chance of drawing in the special preference draw that were hoping to pull a special random tag probably won't be fronting the higher fee this year. I would guess that as a result, the regular random draw odds will get worse.
I think with the new pricing, guys will build points and put in on the regular side until they get close to drawing the tag they want, and then they will jump to the special side when they get close to enough points.
To summarize:
Special preference - no change will steel see point creep continue at same rate.
Regular preference - no change will steel see point creep continue at same rate.
Special random - slight decrease in the number of applicants in the draws.
Regular random - slight increase in the number of applicants in the draws.
I could be totally wrong though.
In any event, it will take a few years before things settle down to a new normal. And about that time 90/10 will hit.
The price people will pay for high end deer is off the chart, but in WY right now the realistic top end isn't that impressive. and this being the first year of these prices I think many guys will say screw that, then in the next year or two they get used to it and return. there's only one deer tag in WY that's worth it to me, and I have max points so my reasoning may off .
Elk are another story, WY has quality elk and quality brings money. I think we're all on the same page here.
I had points in 7 states for most species and I've burnt most of them and had a good time doing it. I'm glad I'm finishing this game not starting it because it's a lot tougher and way less fun than it used to be. I see a little big game and a lot more bird hunting in my future, I don't play games I can't win.
Elk are another story, WY has quality elk and quality brings money. I think we're all on the same page here.
I had points in 7 states for most species and I've burnt most of them and had a good time doing it. I'm glad I'm finishing this game not starting it because it's a lot tougher and way less fun than it used to be. I see a little big game and a lot more bird hunting in my future, I don't play games I can't win.
LIK2HNT
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Think a lot of people 60 plus are feeling that way.
Wiszard
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Agreed....I am only 52 but feel like when I burn my Utah LE deer points, my NV deer and elk points, I am not jumping in the longterm points game again. The odds of drawing another Utah LE deer tag seems unreachable...and I don't want to go hunt Vernon when I am 75....bad example because I really want to...but you catch my drift. NV elk is a better example.
I'll stick to tags I can draw no more than every 5 years or so.....my time is running short I feel and I want to spend more time in the field these days.
SDBugler
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Quit making me feel old!!! LOL
I'm 59 - I've burnt my WY max deer, elk, antelope points, burnt my AZ elk points, been on a three CO 76 archery elk hunts so I've used most of the Points I can via preference systems. In Utah if I don't pull an elk tag before I retire, I will use my points and hopefully draw a multi-season tag in a lower end unit and hunt all fall with stick/muzzy/rifle when I have unlimited time and hopefully turn up a bigger bull.
Hoping to draw a sheep tag somewhere before I'm two doors down.
There are so many factors involved with draw odds. Many of which haven't been discussed. Deer and antelope tags have been cut so severely across so many units (especially nonres tags) that it doesn't take many applicants to change odds. Another consideration is that a lot of guys with high pts likely aren't applying for the few nonres tags available until quality of bucks possibly return.
There are a lot of elk options and it's a matter of which high priced license a nonres is willing to spend. If I had a lot of elk pts I would definitely use them soon because the quality of bulls is likely going to drop as more and more bull tags are issued. There also will be fewer elk as the WG&F pounds elk numbers.
It's pretty much a guessing game what will happen with the increase in price, fewer tags, and applicants with high pts waiting for units to recover.
There are a lot of elk options and it's a matter of which high priced license a nonres is willing to spend. If I had a lot of elk pts I would definitely use them soon because the quality of bulls is likely going to drop as more and more bull tags are issued. There also will be fewer elk as the WG&F pounds elk numbers.
It's pretty much a guessing game what will happen with the increase in price, fewer tags, and applicants with high pts waiting for units to recover.
Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters
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