Sarcasm can be tough to spot in writingYeah, @mulecreek that one went right over his head.
Sarcasm can be tough to spot in writingYeah, @mulecreek that one went right over his head.
Please advise what state is better than Wyoming for sheep and moose tags and the draw odds, license fee, and availability of same.I'm just trying to give a wake-up call to where hunting seems to be headed in Wyoming. The reason I brought up sheep and moose up is the fact that these changes have already happened and impact every DIY/OYO nonres hunter.
The guide in wilderness law impacts every DIY/OYO nonres. Now the extreme price for these tags and pref pt fees illustrates the direction Wyoming continues to follow for DIY/OYO nonres hunters.
I'm not saying that nonres youth ought to not wait in line for high demand tags but am trying to bring attention to the fact that the future of nonres youth opportunities in Wyo are slowly but surely disappearing.
Nonres youth options are pretty much already gone for sheep and moose! $150/year for a pref pt, $3,000 for a sheep tag, and $15,000 for a guided hunt in wilderness illustrates this fact. It's pretty easy to see how Wyoming has priced most nonres DIY/OYO hunters and youth hunters totally out of Wyo sheep hunts.
Can you understand now why I bring sheep and moose up? What is next Wyoming? I think it's great that Wyo residents stood up to outfitter set asides and transferable landowner tags in Task Force Meetings! There certainly is hope that the right tough decisions are made that impact every DIY/OYO resident and nonresident Wyoming hunter!
I copied this from the very first post on this subject above:
"While these price increases might seem logical to some, the increase in non-resident prices for sheep, moose, goat and bison is more suspicious. In an interesting twist, last year the Wyoming Legislature decreased the non-resident allocation for these tags by about 35% on average. This year the state increased the price for these tags by about 50%, what a coincidence some might say."
"In the end, the price for a non-resident sheep tag in Wyoming will rise by about 30% from $2,335 to $3,017. The non-resident moose license saw the largest increase from $1,997 to now a whopping $2,767, an increase of nearly 40%. The goat and bison licenses increased by 27% and 36% respectively. At these rates, every non-resident sheep tag sold equals nearly 20 resident sheep tags in revenue, not bad for the Department’s budget. I guess that 90/10 cut doesn’t hurt too bad after all.
The fact remains, this sport is getting ever more expensive no matter how you cut it. As more and more states continue to struggle with big game management more and more pressure is put on the Wyoming draw system, and I don’t see any end in sight for this trend. Buckle up, this is going to be a very rough year for draws and costs and it could just be the beginning."
I am a non resident that was impacted negatively when the switch to 90/10 happened. I'm still not happy about it. That said, I really don't feel non residents should even have a seat at the table for moose and sheep. The resource is so limited, there really isn't enough to go around. Resident youth starting now are going to wait a lifetime to draw. Should they really have to compete with non residents? I think the WG&F gets that but they have no way out of the situation other than refunding which they won't ever do. The compromise is give away 10% of the tags to make a pile of cash. Guessing they could charge 10k and have people waiting in line.I'm just trying to give a wake-up call to where hunting seems to be headed in Wyoming. The reason I brought up sheep and moose up is the fact that these changes have already happened and impact every DIY/OYO nonres hunter.
The guide in wilderness law impacts every DIY/OYO nonres. Now the extreme price for these tags and pref pt fees illustrates the direction Wyoming continues to follow for DIY/OYO nonres hunters.
I'm not saying that nonres youth ought to not wait in line for high demand tags but am trying to bring attention to the fact that the future of nonres youth opportunities in Wyo are slowly but surely disappearing.
Nonres youth options are pretty much already gone for sheep and moose! $150/year for a pref pt, $3,000 for a sheep tag, and $15,000 for a guided hunt in wilderness illustrates this fact. It's pretty easy to see how Wyoming has priced most nonres DIY/OYO hunters and youth hunters totally out of Wyo sheep hunts.
Can you understand now why I bring sheep and moose up? What is next Wyoming? I think it's great that Wyo residents stood up to outfitter set asides and transferable landowner tags in Task Force Meetings! There certainly is hope that the right tough decisions are made that impact every DIY/OYO resident and nonresident Wyoming hunter!
I copied this from the very first post on this subject above:
"While these price increases might seem logical to some, the increase in non-resident prices for sheep, moose, goat and bison is more suspicious. In an interesting twist, last year the Wyoming Legislature decreased the non-resident allocation for these tags by about 35% on average. This year the state increased the price for these tags by about 50%, what a coincidence some might say."
"In the end, the price for a non-resident sheep tag in Wyoming will rise by about 30% from $2,335 to $3,017. The non-resident moose license saw the largest increase from $1,997 to now a whopping $2,767, an increase of nearly 40%. The goat and bison licenses increased by 27% and 36% respectively. At these rates, every non-resident sheep tag sold equals nearly 20 resident sheep tags in revenue, not bad for the Department’s budget. I guess that 90/10 cut doesn’t hurt too bad after all.
The fact remains, this sport is getting ever more expensive no matter how you cut it. As more and more states continue to struggle with big game management more and more pressure is put on the Wyoming draw system, and I don’t see any end in sight for this trend. Buckle up, this is going to be a very rough year for draws and costs and it could just be the beginning."
@jims you’ve inspired me with your talk of youth not being able to afford preference points. We have foundations that help kids go to college, programs to help people get housing and food, why not preference points?
I tell you what, you setup the foundation to provide points for the youth and I’ll help you get it going with a $1000.00 donation. I’m sure I know others who would donate to such a cause.
With your network of people I’m sure you will not need help getting it going but feel free to reach out. Thanks!
Alaska! what do I win?Please advise what state is better than Wyoming for sheep and moose tags and the draw odds, license fee, and availability of same.
Give that man a kewpie doll!Alaska! what do I win?
That’s crazy but exactly what the Shady Sebastian Foundation for kids will be all about!For 2023 a 11 year old got a sheep and his brother that is 12 got a mountain goat.
I can PM pics if you want to see
So have kids apply in Colorado, Utah, Montana, and Idaho...problem solved.Nonres sheep tags are way less in every bordering state surrounding Wyo.
How much is an unlimited nonres sheep tag in Montana? It’s around $800 less.
The last time I checked a nonres sheep tag in Colo was $500 less, Utah $700 less, and Idaho $400 less than Wyo.
Also, none of these states require a guide in wilderness! Is Wyo nonres-friendly to DIY/OYO sheep hunters? It’s the worse in the lower 48!
Dang it Buzz, you beat me to it!So have kids apply in Colorado, Utah, Montana, and Idaho...problem solved.
Hopefully Wyoming and all western states are headed to a place where Res hunting trumps NonRes hunting.......by far! #ResLivesMatter------SSGreat excuses that don't solve the problem of where DIY/OYO nonres hunting is headed to in Wyo!
Great excuses that don't solve the problem of where DIY/OYO nonres hunting is headed to in Wyo!
My opinion is that you are overinflating the magnitude of the "great price increase" The fact is that middle and even lower class folks routinely spend much more on hobbies, vacations, and other habits. It boils down to how you want to spend your money. You obviously don't think hunting in Wyoming is similar in value to a golf excursion or a trip out of town to see a good concert or sporting event. I, as a middle income American, think it is worth it and will gladly pay the price to play.Great attitude!
Yep, at any cost screw nonres DIY/OYO hunters and.continue to allow hunting as we know it benefit those with deep pockets!
On a positive note, it was a giant leap in the right direction eliminating the concept of set aside tags for outfitters and landowners in highly debated task force meetings. I certainly hope that mindset continues down the road in all Western states that ultimately benefits both res and nonres diy/oyo hunters!
The fee increase and going to 3 regions for non-residents General elk tags was pushed by the Outfitters lobbing. They bent Nesvik ear and got the Legislature to buy off on it. Told to me by an Outfitter in a General elk unit.Correct.
First things first, Nesvik being on that task farse was a direct conflict of interest. Its shocking the Governor allowed him to participate (well, not really considering who we have as a Governor).
Second, there was NO WAY Nesvik was going to say anything to stop, or even slow down a fee increase.
This is right except it was changed by the Commission in regulation, not the Legislature. The outfitters(WYOGA) didn't even show to the meeting, they knew it was a done deal. Very corrupt.The fee increase and going to 3 regions for non-residents General elk tags was pushed by the Outfitters lobbing. They bent Nesvik ear and got the Legislature to buy off on it. Told to me by an Outfitter in a General elk unit.
The lousy Wyoming treatment has made me give up entirely on that states hunting ! I’m done !You’ve created a new demographic amongst the American Populace. “Blue Collar Youth”
The lousy Wyoming treatment has made me give up entirely on that states hunting ! I’m done !
And I’ve hunted antelope every year possible since’78- love to hunt the antelope!! What they did was outrageous! Not playing their game any more- huge winter kills just wiped out the antelope & so many deer too!
Jerry Gold- Windsor, Colorado
Jerry buddy did you take the red pill instead of the blue pill?The lousy Wyoming treatment has made me give up entirely on that states hunting ! I’m done !
And I’ve hunted antelope every year possible since’78- love to hunt the antelope!! What they did was outrageous! Not playing their game any more- huge winter kills just wiped out the antelope & so many deer too!
Jerry Gold- Windsor, Colorado
Stewart- This article says it all !! That’s one of theAs a NR that hunts in WY every year, this is a punch in the gut.
I would assume this will push some hunters to start sitting out a year to grab a point to avoid the special draw and just apply in the regular with a point in some units.
The silver lining is that, at least in the area I hunt, this should allow the tag to be all but guaranteed in the "special" for several years to come.
Just sharing information...credit to EHJ on the article I copy/pasted below...
More Price Increases in Wyoming
By Guy Eastman
A new year has brought an ugly surprise for non-resident big game applicants in Wyoming. A very steep price increase is on the very near horizon for the “Special Draw” applications for non-resident deer, elk and antelope licenses. In addition, the prices on sheep, moose, goat and bison were also hiked for the new year as well.
The news is not all bad however, the “Regular Draw” prices for non-resident applicants where held steady as well as all resident license and preference point pricing.
As sure as time itself, a price increase was bound to happen at some point. Particularly considering the fact that the regular versus special draw has grown into parity, and in some cases the regular, cheaper draw actually had better odds over the past few years for a few hunts, which had the opposite of the intended effect on applicant behaviors, the logical decision was to increase the price of the special in an effort to push more applicants in to the cheaper draw and out of the special drawing.
The net effect is non-resident special elk went from $1,283 to now $1,965, a 53% net increase, while the special deer application went from $677 to $1,216, a net increase of 79%, and the special antelope license saw the steepest increase of more than 93%, from $629 to now $1,215. Needless to say, this will surely generate a substantial increase in revenue for the department from desperate non-resident hunters.
While these price increases might seem logical to some, the increase in non-resident prices for sheep, moose, goat and bison is more suspicious. In an interesting twist, last year the Wyoming Legislature decreased the non-resident allocation for these tags by about 35% on average. This year the state increased the price for these tags by about 50%, what a coincidence some might say.
In the end, the price for a non-resident sheep tag in Wyoming will rise by about 30% from $2,335 to $3,017. The non-resident moose license saw the largest increase from $1,997 to now a whopping $2,767, an increase of nearly 40%. The goat and bison licenses increased by 27% and 36% respectively. At these rates, every non-resident sheep tag sold equals nearly 20 resident sheep tags in revenue, not bad for the Department’s budget. I guess that 90/10 cut doesn’t hurt too bad after all.
The fact remains, this sport is getting ever more expensive no matter how you cut it. As more and more states continue to struggle with big game management more and more pressure is put on the Wyoming draw system, and I don’t see any end in sight for this trend. Buckle up, this is going to be a very rough year for draws and costs and it could just be the beginning.
So true- very corrupt all across the board !!!!This is right except it was changed by the Commission in regulation, not the Legislature. The outfitters(WYOGA) didn't even show to the meeting, they knew it was a done deal. Very corrupt.
"Fight amongst yourselves...." - a very profound statement, which I am sure Government Agencies and Environmental groups are all aware of, and use successfully against us often.Fight amongst yourselves, I guess, but the crux of the problem is a severely bloated bureaucracy (WYGFD) that basically serves only a few entities such as the land barons and the outfitters and that connived task 'farce'. There are more red shits skulking around the landscape vs. actual critters. Ask yourself if the hunting and fishing is better now then 10 years ago?No, it's not yet there are 100's of shiny new green 3/4 pickups loaded to the gills driving all over the state. Want things to get better? Cut about 50% of the WYGFD workforce and make the Director be an elected position. Nesvik sucks more then even that Arizona migrant who was a phoenix golfing buddy of the previous Governor
..... I question how many hunters will pay that much for the quality and quantity WY has right now. that's my theory anyway, so I applied for special deer.
If the elk results show a big surprise I guess I'll modify my application if there's time.
Think a lot of people 60 plus are feeling that way.The price people will pay for high end deer is off the chart, but in WY right now the realistic top end isn't that impressive. and this being the first year of these prices I think many guys will say screw that, then in the next year or two they get used to it and return. there's only one deer tag in WY that's worth it to me, and I have max points so my reasoning may off .
Elk are another story, WY has quality elk and quality brings money. I think we're all on the same page here.
I had points in 7 states for most species and I've burnt most of them and had a good time doing it. I'm glad I'm finishing this game not starting it because it's a lot tougher and way less fun than it used to be. I see a little big game and a lot more bird hunting in my future, I don't play games I can't win.
Agreed....I am only 52 but feel like when I burn my Utah LE deer points, my NV deer and elk points, I am not jumping in the longterm points game again. The odds of drawing another Utah LE deer tag seems unreachable...and I don't want to go hunt Vernon when I am 75....bad example because I really want to...but you catch my drift. NV elk is a better example. I'll stick to tags I can draw no more than every 5 years or so.....my time is running short I feel and I want to spend more time in the field these days.Think a lot of people 60 plus are feeling that way.
Quit making me feel old!!! LOLThink a lot of people 60 plus are feeling that way.
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.