Offshore Accounts - Tax Evasion

T

TFinalshot

Guest
So, congress is holding hearings to discuss offshore accounts and tax evasion. the Swiss have admitted that they knew US citizens intended to defraud the US government by hiding income and thereby avoid paying federal taxes on income/earnings.

I want to know what you "conservatives" think about the more than 40,000 accounts the Swiss know they manage but which are mainly designed to defraud the USA out of equitable tax payments.

What should happen to people who are caught defrauding our government and the people of the USA by deliberately NOT paying their taxes?

Second question is what do you think about the people who defraud the people by avoiding to report earnings and thereby avoid paying their share of the federal and state tax burden?

Right now there is a program that will allow tax evaders to come forth and avoid federal charges (they will have to pay their taxes and fines, but they will not face charges), those people who are defrauding the U.S. and are caught, will be arrested. . . according to the IRS. . . \

Whatcha guys think about this issue?

Tony


www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Well - those who break the law in this manner know they are breaking the law and willingly do so. They should be held accountable. It is dishonest and they are cheating our country, there are really no two ways to justify it. And I know there will be some who do - and they may have some valid points; i.e. "I already pay so much, the wealthy pay a bigger percent of taxes" etc. etc. When in reality what off-shore accounts represent is at its heart, dishonesty and selfishness. Those that don't break the law don't have anything to worry about.

However, these measures will be read as left-wing attempts by the Obama administration to further socialize the country and redistribute wealth, in spite of their offer of relaxed penalties. But unless they catch the offenders red-handed, I doubt any of them will volunteer to close their accounts. Besides, there are some legitimate reasons for off-shore accounts too - if you do business in the country where the account is located for example, or for other reasons. And it is not illegal to have an offshore account if you still report the taxes anyway. The problem again comes in enforcement. We always want newer tougher laws but don't often realize that we can't even enforce the laws we currently have.

I am pretty much a centrist leaning conservative, but I am also pretty far below the poverty line as well. I actually haven't had any tax liability for the last few years, but I still pay the maximum amount (and then some at some PT jobs I have worked, to assure that I do get taxed period) to make sure that the country can use my portion throughout the year, hopefully they will make as much in interest as what I get back.


UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
I think youre spot on UTROY. . .

I hope people see that I'm bringing this up to have a discussion. It's not really partisan it's about morals and values. I agree, you can have whatever accounts you want but if youre hiding money or not paying your taxes for whatever reason, are you a patriot or a bum?

Tony
 
As a conservative I think we should sieze any illegally hidden funds and keep them as a warning that you should not get richer by stealing. I also think Madoff and Stockman as well as a few hundred other top fraud specialists should go to prison for a long time. Loopholes are legal but fraud is not. On the other hand I can see a day when working people have been so abandoned by an irresponsible government that spent too much and gave huge amounts to those that are able but prefer not to work that the taxpayer simply refuses to pay. That would violate the same tax laws but would also be a revolution of civil disobedience. Same laws but totally different perspective.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-09 AT 10:22AM (MST)[p]....I think if they are liberal they should be able to keep their position with the Obama administration and if conservative they should be shot...

great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
Or just let them move to Dubia like Haliburton and then they can legally dodge taxes.

It's about time someone pressed this issue, but there are some big toes going to get stepped on if they do. I suppose Obama figures right now what's he got to lose.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-09 AT 09:12AM (MST)[p]I'm not sure if enforcement is possible T. In most cases off-shore account are a result of nefarious or off the book transactions to begin with. Unfortunately many of these off-shore banks are nefarious within in their own right. Creating all sorts of different ponzi schemes to cover up tax evasion schemes to assist potential customers in tax evasion.

http://www.caymanbankingservices.com/
http://www.belize.com/offshore-banking.html

Note on the link below just how these ponzi schemes works and the bank names associated with them.

http://www.bragertaxlaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1392265.html

This just came out of Bloomberg on this subject which names several US companies which are involved with these offshore account. The corporate names come as no surprise, most of these names are also names associated with the banking bailout.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ahwrNuV62Bt8&refer=us

Now, as it has been explained to me we should NOT pursue these US corp. entities because this would place a higher tax burden on them which would result in "pass through" costs raising the costs for consumer goods and services.

I'm not sure if I understand the logic of this explanation, perhaps somebody here can explain it better than I can. :)
 
T,

What country in the World is the largest tax haven? Does the U.S. treat foreign investors like they expect foreign countries to treat Americans?

If anyone believes cracking down on offshore accounts is going to solve our current crisis, I have some ocean front property to sell you.

I don't advocate breaking the law but the U.S. government may find out that it doesn't have a moral leg to stand on when one compares the tax haven it has created.

Nemont
 
is it or is it not a problem? I think youre missing the point. Fraud, tax evasion etx, are pervasive, its about time we clean it up a bit dont you think? I dont think anyone is suggesting it's the panacia. . . The feds are already cranking down on the budget and how it's spent. I'm seeing if first hand with EPA.

BTW NeMont, that's what i've always said about earmarks -- at the end of the day, earmarks dont make a-you-know-what's, bit of difference to the overall monetary situation, and what people dont realize is that earmarks are the chips of the trade, political cash if you will. While they dont make up much of the spending, they almost always have the MOST direct effect on the people and the economy. I'm not saying I support them, i'm saying it's not worth the attention it gets. As for Macain he only gets away with his position because he dose not sponsor them but he's always first in line to support his collegues that do. . .
 
A quick and effect solution would be to lower/remove a majority of corporate taxes/capital gain taxes. The reason companies/individuals have off-shore accounts is because our government try's to stifle productivity/growth. What the current administration is doing is making the economic situation WORSE, and companies are sitting on currency, so that when the recession ends all the 'new' currency (271% since January 1st) hits the market we will experience hyper-inflation that will send us right back into another recession. Notice I did NOT use the term 'money'. America stopped using money when it abandoned the gold standard and started issuing currency back by nothing more than an IOU. The American dollar is a derivative of NOTHING!

PRO

www.oddiction.com
 
Hey Pro, try this,

DO YOUR AMERICAN DUTY, SUPPORT OUR MILITARY AND PAY YOUR TAXES TO HELP US WIN THE WAR ON TERROR...

Hows that for a moral conservative position? Why dont I heat that being shouted from the roof top. instead we hear all this whining about how it's Obama's fault.

Good grief, i think i'm stupid. I never thought a real patriot would tell me that breaking the law would stop if we only changed the laws. . .

Who's the patriot, me who pays my taxes and complains about how our government spends our money, or the guys making millions but paying zero because they are hiding both in our country and their money so they dont have to pay. They live here under our military and political protection, under our constitution but they dont want to help pay for it.

I never believed in torture but i'm changing my mind. Lets throw some salt on those slugs. . .

Tony
 
T,

I agree with all of that, not certain about the McCain reference and earmarks unless you are talking on another thread?

I think there should be transparency in transactions but if the U.S. government is going to put it's money where it's mouth is then it needs to clean up it's own tax haven it has created here.

That is all I am saying, railing against offshoring is just a way to divert peoples attention from the actual issues that is going on right hear. Crack down on offshore tax dodging, it won't affect 1/10 of 1 percent of tax revenues.

But if Foreign governments then demand that the U.S. government also crack down on the tax haven they created here you may see alot of foreign capital leave. Is this a good time to see a flight of any capital?

That is all I am saying.

Nemont
 
How is it "patriotic" to pay excessive amounts of taxes to fund researching ways to reduce swine odor in California? Are you calling out the pinheads in DC as being 'un-patriotic" because they are wasting BILLIONS/TRILLIONS on projects that do not help a single soldier out?

I am not saying we should condone tax-evading, what I am saying is the best way to reduce the temptation of corps doing it is to be a less repressive socialist government. Lower corporate taxes and capital gain taxes and people will have no need to go off-shore. It would also INCREASE the revenue taken in by the Feds.

IT is NOT patriotic to be good little socialists!

PRO

www.oddiction.com
 
hey pro, as soon as you become a congressman or a senator, let me know, until then, we follow the laws if we are a moral people. If you dont like the way the system runs, help change it, run for office, but dont suggest that we break the law to teach them a lesson, that's about as liberal a position as there is you know. . . If youre into making up your own rules and justifying for yourself why out laws dont apply to you, that's great but that's not conservative, not republican, it's liberal . . . In fact, i'm not aware of any politician that would suggest that it's okay to break out tax laws because the people elected us to spend your money poorly. . .

I know where youre coming from, and there is a bit of truth in your thinking but I cant support it as the means do not justify the end. . .



Nemont, i agree . . .
 
"I know where youre coming from, and there is a bit of truth in your thinking but I cant support it as the means do not justify the end. . ."

I am not condoning the actions, I am simply saying how to curtail it. I would dare say 90%+ of those with off-shore accounts have operated within the law due to loopholes in the rules/regulations set up by the pinheads in DC. SO, while it may sound grand and 'patriotic' to say we should go after them, is it of any substance? If you truly desire for corps to stay here and pay taxes you would be an advocate of lowering the tax burdens on them from the federal/state/local governments. Your 'answer' is little more than a smokescreen. I am talking about a solution.

PRO

www.oddiction.com
 
If you are breaking the law you should be punished. If you don't pay your taxes then you should be brought to task. I agree with Tmoneyshot on this one. If you are hidding money in off shore accounts you are a friggin scum bag.

However if you don't pay your taxes Obama has a position for you in his cabinet. :)

I also agree with Pro. Our taxes are way too high. But that does not give the right to anyone to hide their money in off shore accounts. If you don't like the tax system get involved and work to change it, but don't break the law.
 
202 I'm pretty sure you're a conservative, so riddle me this, Bush cut taxes right ? yippie! , he doubled the debt and left us in a severe recession right? bummer.

Nobody likes taxes less than me, but how is the never ending rhetoric that tax cuts and lower taxes solve everything from economic crisis to the common cold? I'd love lower taxes, but I'm not seeing the proof behind the theory that lower taxes cure all ills.

I don't have the answers and you've proven you don't , so it's time for conservatives to craft another angle if they want to rise above the power of town meter maid again.
 
It isn't lower taxes that is the problem it's over spending by our beloved politicians of both parties that is the problem.


Ransom
 
overton I agree, but would you mind telling us if you mean we're paying to much to be safe?

war in Iraq
war in afganastan
war on terror
homeland security
health care
social security
military

that's about 90 percent of the past budgets.

Today, i'm not sure what the stimulus package has done to all that, but throw it in there.
 
>overton I agree, but would you
>mind telling us if you
>mean we're paying to much
>to be safe?
>
>war in Iraq
>war in afganastan
>war on terror
>homeland security
>health care
>social security
>military
>
>that's about 90 percent of the
>past budgets.
>
>Today, i'm not sure what the
>stimulus package has done to
>all that, but throw it
>in there.


The past administration wasted huge amouts of money and that is no secret. This administration will also waste huge amounts of money. The stimulus package might be packaged nice but there will be much waste.
I'm posting my senators form letter on the plan. At first glance it looks okay but at what price?



Dear Friend:

The recently passed American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan (H.R.1), better known as ?the stimulus bill,? is often described as a series of very large monetary figures. But the real goal of the bill was to create jobs, jumpstart growth, and transform our economy for the new century.

Almost everyone in America will see the change that will be created by this bill. Let me provide some examples of what it will mean for average Californians.

About 95 percent of all working families will qualify for the Making Work Pay tax cut. Working families will receive between a $400 and $800 tax cut, with an estimated 12.5 million Californians eligible for this tax cut.
If you have children in California schools, they may see classroom, lab or library improvements as part of the plan to modernize schools. More than 1,200 California schools will receive modernization funding. Other funding for schools will also help to update technology and enable disadvantaged students to excel.
If you have children in college, 522,000 families in California will be eligible for the American Opportunity Tax Credit to make college more affordable. This program creates a partially refundable tax credit for four years of college and puts higher education within reach of more Californians. The Pell Grant for college loans will also be increased to provide more funds to pay for college.
If you receive Social Security benefits, or SSI, you will likely receive a one-time payment of $250.
If you become unemployed, you can receive an additional $100 per month in unemployment insurance benefits, and your benefits will be extended if you remain unemployed. More than 2,395,000 Californians have lost their jobs in this recession and this extra money will help boost them and our economy with their added purchasing power.
If you or a family member have become unemployed and you had health insurance, you will receive assistance in continuing your employer-provided health insurance coverage for up to nine months. The federal government will pay up to 65 percent of your health insurance premiums during this period of unemployment.
If your neighborhood has foreclosed and abandoned houses, funds are provided to help local governments buy up and improve homes and make them available to renters or future buyers.
If you are in the military, funds are provided to upgrade military medical facilities, housing, and childcare facilities. Funds are also provided to upgrade veteran medical facilities and to make repairs at veterans facilities.
If you are a first-time home buyer, you may be eligible for an $8,000 tax credit toward the purchase of a home. And if you live in a high-cost area, you will have greater access to low-interest mortgage loans.
If you are concerned about increasing crime in these hard economic times, the bill provides federal funding to hire more police officers through the COPS program.
If you have a health problem, or even if you just regularly visit your doctor, your medical records will be computerized, enabling faster access to medical records and saving billions of dollars in health care costs.
If you travel on America?s roads, freeways, bridges, or transit, you are likely to see improvements, upgrades and modernization including freeway construction, modernization of infrastructure that includes energy savings, and rail and transit construction to reduce traffic and gas consumption.

These are just examples of the good programs included in this historic legislation. And while it is just a step in a long road to economic recovery, it is a crucial one.

Sincerely,


Barbara Boxer
United States Senator



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To respond to this message, please click here. This link will take you to a webpage where you can reply to messages that you receive from Senator Boxer?s office.
 
I'm not sure how this is a conservative/liberal problem in terms of those who harbor money ovserseas. The problem is that money as it relates to taxes is a coward. Like electricity, it will tend to find the path of least resistance. Fix this joke of a tax model and you'll solve a big share of the problem.

498a6f395e505405.jpg
 
"202 I'm pretty sure you're a conservative, so riddle me this, Bush cut taxes right ? yippie! , he doubled the debt and left us in a severe recession right? bummer.

Nobody likes taxes less than me, but how is the never ending rhetoric that tax cuts and lower taxes solve everything from economic crisis to the common cold? I'd love lower taxes, but I'm not seeing the proof behind the theory that lower taxes cure all ills.

I don't have the answers and you've proven you don't , so it's time for conservatives to craft another angle if they want to rise above the power of town meter maid again."

Its no riddle Dude. In fact the answer is quite simple. We need a leader that has the balls to say "We can't afford it, prepare to suffer" We need term limits. These entrenched congressmen and senators are running this country into the ground. All they care about is re-election and in doing so they bring home the pork and get their constituents hooked on that drug. We the people need to step up and take the blame for be coming drunk on government hand outs. We need the government to get out of our lives. Leave welfare up to the churches, synagogues and non profits. We need minimal taxes and minimal government. We need a revolution in these matters.

But back to the original thread if you are evading taxes like a lot of the Obama cabinet then you should go to jail not get a high level government job!
 
T, I know this is about off shore accounts but there is also the issue of tax fraud right here on land. I wonder how much money we could raise if everyone was honest when they file their income tax? As an example, how many people report their casino winnings? How much money is earned "under the table" in the US every year? I bet it's huge!

In CA there is a line on the income tax form to report any of your out of state purchases, including internet purchases. You are supposed to pay sales tax on all those purchases. Everyone I know puts down a big "0" on that line because there currently is no way to prove how much you bought out of state. The revenue to CA would be staggering if everyone was honest and paid the sales tax.

A lot of people who cheat on their income taxes say "hang 'em" to illegal off shore accounts.:)

Sorry to divert the topic.

Eel
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-09 AT 06:47PM (MST)[p]Nobody likes taxes less than me, but how is the never ending rhetoric that tax cuts and lower taxes solve everything from economic crisis to the common cold? I'd love lower taxes, but I'm not seeing the proof behind the theory that lower taxes cure all ills.

US Companies Pay the Highest Taxes in the World

Quote:

It may come as a surprise that US companies pay the highest taxes in the world. Yes, you read that right. American businesses, large and small and across all industries pay from 35% to 41.6% of their income in combined state and federal taxes. The 41.6% maximum rate is scheduled to rise to 46.2% in 2010 when President Obama's promised tax increases are implemented. Compare that to socialist France where companies pay only 34.4% in taxes, to China where the rate is 25%, or Russia which levies a mere 24%. Corporations in Ireland, Europe's fastest growing economy for the last 18 years, pay just 12.5% in taxes.


Because of its dual taxation system, US businesses and individuals are required to pay both state and federal taxes on their income. When combined both these taxes range from a minimum of 35% in states like Nevada, South Dakota, and Wyoming that do not tax business income, to a maximum of 41.6% in Iowa, the state with the highest corporate tax rate of 12%.

**********************

It was taxes that has drove most of the companies overseas. They are out to make a profit, when they leave, there goes the jobs. If the capitol gains taxes were lowered or eliminated, many of these companies would still be here, or in business. Many small companies just shut their doors, unable to compete and pay their tax burden. Lower taxes will lead to the employment of more people and there will be more money being spent. Lower taxes = increased revenue and this has been shown in all cases when taxes are lowered.

When taxes on American companies raise, that additional burden falls squarely on the backs of the American consumers. This results in less buying and more companies closing the doors or leaving for tax friendlier locations. The people who think that the taxes should be raised on these companies, fail to realize that for every tax that is levied on a business is passed right on to the customer. -Shpsgr-

Ronald Reagan:

Quote:

Entrepreneurs and their small enterprises are responsible for almost all the economic growth in the United States.

The government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
 
Eel, it smells like fish and it's in the same net, so it's all relevant as far as i'm concerned. . . good point. . . .
 
The Congressional interrogation the other day of the UBS CFO was rather farcical.

UBS isn't the only large brokerage firm in America who has clients in Swiss accounts or in Lichenstein.

The SEC, beholden to Congress, lobbyists and Wall-Street itself is what it is. And with Mary Shapiro now running things expect more of the same.

The fox is still guarding the hen house.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-09 AT 09:19AM (MST)[p]Hey Dean, I think you would agree that the so called farcical hearing, as you describe it, is at least happening if for no other reason than to drag the guy through the mud -- and for goodness sake he and other's like him need it! I've never seen a guy sit before a committee and pee down his leg more than that weasel. It was a joke, but he was right, he so much as said that he's a scammer and so too are this clients. . .

I dont think I remember such a hearing when the republicans controlled the agenda. In fact, I do recall, for the 12 years that they dominated the congress NO HEARINGS on any thing real. And when there were, it was a function of political pressure, the two times were the 9/11 hearings, and the iraq war. . .

So, while you might be right, at least someone is making it a public debate, which is mostly all that we can expect.

I love it when guys want be anti big government and want to blame the entire system for our failures, then they blame them again when they actually try to get the people of this country involved. Give me a break, which way do you want it, completely unregulated, or regulated with some oversight by the people of the country. If the congress wont make these issues public, there's no way we can trust the media to do it's job. . .

So, now that you know it was a farce, did you send your letter to the chairman of the committee? Heck, even Baucus would listen to you, he's the chair of the finance committee and just down the road . . .

I'm not trashing on you, i'm wondering where youre coming from when there's a public hearing on cspan for the first time in history to discuss the subject and you call it a complete farce. . .
 
T

Too bad congress cherry picks those they do drag through the mud.
I'd really like to see some one drag the SOB's in congress through the mud too because they deserve it also.
 
there are some inequities for sure, but look at it this way, elections are for exactly what youre talking about. The difference between the slime bags that are ripping us off in the private sector and the slime bags that we elect are the idiots that support them. Who's dumber, us who elect or dont hold them accountable, or the guy that's breaking the law but making a lot of money. . . You gota wonder sometimes?

I'm a moral guy, i follow the laws, but chit man, sometimes I wish we, as a public would revolt against the people WE put in office! Some of them sit there and act like they are untouchable, we need to reach out there and touch one once in awhile!
 
T,
Be careful what you are saying because there are people on this board who are sick of the revolution talk.

They are untouchable, how else do you explain the long careers of some of the guys in both the House and Senate? I could name several from both parties that have served over 20 years and it is difficult to see what they bring to the table.

Nemont
 
Tony,

I agree with your stance. The simple reason I brought up the word "farcical" was the obtuse nature of the interrogation in the first place. You have these "financially illiterate" congressional miscreants who took, via lobbyists, zillions of bucks from the Wall Street investment banks and then were getting stonewalled by the guy who should be interrogated further, in GITMO as far as I am concerned. I had the distinct pleasure of serving for the NYSE and NASD (now called FINRA) as an arbitrator in dispute resolution proceedings for over a decade. Wasn't much I didn't see. Today the SEC is as toothless as they have ever been. They can't rock the boat because they are beholden to Congress and the Democrats are trying to deflect the "heat" and keep SEC investigations to a minimum. What I find most egregious and a real threat to our financial system is the fact that there is not a single regulatory agency of the government in charge of the supervision and regulation of our DTCC system. For a real eye opening expose of how the system works today I suggest you spend some time on the following web site. It may enlighten you on how the big boys operate. It also may scare you as it did me.

www.deepcapture.com



Dean Parisian
Chippewa Partners
http://chippewapartners.blogspot.com
 
Dean, that all likely is true, but my point is this, which you seem to ignore or at the very least belittle, which is, at least congress is having the discussion - no matter how we got here, we are talking about it which will help. I also worked high up in the government I can tell you that there is not one story i've heard reported in the media or the news that comes close to how bad things really can be on the inside. I'm sure you could tell me stories for a week about how underhanded things are so I believe you when you say you know we are not at the heart of the issues.

That said, I'd much prefer my government make the attempt to hold them accountable than I would like to watch as they help them carry the money out the back door. . . Like I said, there was not one hearing on this under the last 12 years of the republican let congress and worse, the last president was as much on the inside as he was our "leader."
 

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