one gun?.. wife/youth

[jeremydhinds]

Ok guys I know its been talked about numerous times here but I need closure. With times as they are and being on a tight budget I need to buy ONE hunting rifle that they both can shoot comfortably. Niether wife or son has shot anything bigger than a .22, so gun weight as well as caliber is a factor. We will be hunting coyotes to deer possibly elk. I dont want to spend more than $600.00 if possible..Thanks for your help.

 

[Chesterwyo]

weatherby vangaurd in 257 WBY

 

[sageadvice]

First thought, Remington model 700 ADL 7mm-08 w/ 3X9 Burris scope. Good for the $$ outfit. There are any number of outfit combo's that fit the bill close to your price range. This is a good one!

Joey

 

[huntindude]

270 Win, M 70 featherwieght or m 700 mnt rifle would be my preference. you can't beat the 270 for deer size game and it will work for elk if you're careful with your shots.

270 is minumum for elk I don't care what anyone says. you could kill one with a 17HMR but that doesn't make it an elk round.

 

[Hardway]

I say Tikka t-3lite in .308win. Can load it with 130's for the yotes clear up to 165's or 180's for elk. Plus being a short action cal, you can get away with a pretty short barrel like the 22" on the tikka. Hunting will get old for the wife and kid if they have to drag around a 10lb gun all day.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

[uphill]

Ever see one of them "professional hunters" on TV...carrying a TC Encore. Show me one non-celebrity that paid for his own 15k brown bear hunt and chose to take an Encore on the hunt!

That being said I have to admit that the Encore is versatile. Think about it. You can buy an Encore today with a short .243-.308 barrel and a short buttstock. Someday soon your son will grow like a weed. You can buy a fullsize buttstock, unscrew one bolt in the grip and swap it out and the gun is still sighted in. As your son gets a little older and can handle more gun you simply buy another barrel in a bona-fide elk caliber. Then one day when someone in the family gets the itch to try a muzzleloader season...just buy another barrel.

One mans opinion

 

[ce61]

a stevens model 200 in 270 is about 300-350 or less than half the price of an encore. a barrel swap can be done, even down to 22-250 of course it would end up being a single shot, just like those way way way overpriced encores. used savage barrels are usually 50- 100 bucks, not 300, but if you gotta spend 300 for a barrel, you might just as well buy another 300 dollar stevens.....but get an encore when you start the tv show...lol ce61

 

[mtmuley]

My buddy's daughter has a Weatherby Vanguard in 7mm-08. It came with a youth stock AND an adult sized stock. I don't know if this is available any longer. With 140 gr Accubonds, it has proven very capable so far. And very accurate. I think it was priced at about 470 bucks. Personally, you couldn't GIVE me any Weatherby rifle. I'd probably go Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08, cause I'm a Remington guy. But the Weatherby package is really economical, and leaves room for a better scope. mtmuley

 

[HuntElk4Fun_]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-08 AT 10:15PM (MST)[p]I have 2 sons (12/14) and a wife that love to hunt antelope, deer and elk. I was in your boat a few years ago.

I second and highly recommend the 7mm-08 suggestions. I have one for my boys and we shoot 140 gr Accubonds at everything. This year, they took 2 antelope and 1 6 pt bull elk with it. You can shoot about anything with it and it hardly kicks at all (~12 lbs of energy).

I would NOT recommend the 270 as a "kids/wife gun". IMO there is a misconception about this caliber as that type of gun. If you look at recoil tables, they kick very similiar to a 30-06 or other non magnum rifles (~18-20 lbs of energy). Not saying it wouldn't work, it just doesn't compare to the 7mm-08, 243 or 308 - true "kids" guns. Also, if you can handle the kick of a 270 get a 270WSM. My wife shoots a 270WSM. It kicks similiar to a standard 270 yet you gain back engery and velocity. My boys are looking into shooting it next year.

Overall, 7mm-08 and if they can tolerate a little more recoil... 270WSM.

ODDNUT1
Kirt C.

 

[hossblur]

.243, .308, .270,. 30-06 in that order. You can get the vanguard for $399, leaves money for a good enough scope. Other than the .243, the others do kick. I have owned all 4, still hunt with the 06. Here comes the fight but in my opinion if you can take the recoil of the .308, you just as well go with the 06, not that much different. I started with a .308, savage 99c. Why those 4, shells are very plentiful, you can buy lots of reasonalbly priced bulk loads for reasonable prices meaning your shooters can shoot more. The .257, or 7mm-06, or .25-06 are all good, but shells aren't available everywhere. I am biased, but I would bet more game has been taken with the 06 then any other caliber. 30-30 probably more deer, but the 06 more game in general.

 

[ce61]

a chart i have lists a 10 pound 7mm08 with 12.8 foot pounds of recoil. the same book lists a 10 pound 270 with 15.9 foot pounds of recoil. if you don't handload buy a 270 and a limbsaver recoil pad and after a couple of boxes of shells the cost of the recoil pad will be made up, and if you need shells the 270 and 06 are sold everywhere,unlike a 7mm08.ce61

 

[life2extreme]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-08 AT 08:32AM (MST)[p]Remington Model 7 in 25-06

Aim Center Mass

 

[Hardway]

>Remington Model 7 in 25-06

I did'nt know the model 7 was chambered in standard actions, thought it was a short action only??????

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

[Pre64]

Whatever rifle they are comfortable with in any of the above calibers that are offered in whatever size action they like. I think they may be a little more enthusiastic if they get to choose.

 

[lve2143]

.....and whatever rifle you go with,
DO NOT go with the "youth" model.

Buddy of mine wanted a rifle a few years ago
for his wifey and son to shoot whiteys. That was
the year the Remington Classic was in 7-08. I told
him that's what he should get. My taxi, the guy with
the FFL talked him into the same caliber in the "youth"
model. Sheeezzz......can you say recoil...

If elk wasn't thrown into this mix, this would be
pretty easy... 243 Win.

With elk in the mix, gotta go with Dude on the .270 Win.
.308 would be the only true short action I'd go with.

.270 Win and .25-06 are excellent low recoil rounds for
folks that can't handle alot. And they kill deer like
crazy.

lrv

 

[jeremydhinds]

Thanks guys...seeing as theres not a unanimous vote on one gun, I like the .308 winchester from savage arms. I like the range of factory bullet weights and the BDM model comes with a muzzle break from the factory. They'll get plenty of shooting time with this gun and then if and when one of us gets lucky on an elk tag I'll break out the trusty Remington 7mm ultra mag!...Although I think a well placed 180 grain .308 bullet at 200 yds or less will take down an elk.

 

[bogey]

NO muzzle break, it won't be needed and they SUCK.
My opinion. The choices of guns given are all good.

 

[ce61]

hey oddnut1, how do you figure a 270wsm has the same recoil as the standard 270?? it has more case capacity, burns more powder and is a faster. i haven't shot a 270wsm, but i have shot a 300wsm quite a bit and think the recoil is between a 30-06 and a 300 win. mag. , and more speed equals more recoil. not trying to start a pi$$ing match, just wondering. ce61

 

[Boskee]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-08 AT 10:39AM (MST)[p]You've been given some pretty good advice but I'll throw my 2 cents worth in here. The Remington youth model (may come with one now) needs a good pad installed as do any of them. I like the 7mm/08 and the .308 in short actions for woman/kids. The 7mm/08 can be shot with 120 grain bullets and it's pretty comfortable to shoot. The PAD is the key here. If you're inclined to go with a long action get a 25/06 or a .270 and start with a good pad and add a removeable muzzle brake if necessary that you can take off later. Buy reduced loads for the .270 and it'll make it better and remember heavier bullets kick more. Some woman and most kids don't like the recoil on a full bore .270 unless they've shot quite a bit because that additional felt recoil BOTHERS a bunch of them unless you tame it down. The price of a gun is cheap when you make a selection that they actually will want to shoot and enjoy. The best pick of all is the .243 and that they'll love to shoot and as they grow they'll still take it deer hunting because it works but it's not the best choice for elk. My wife killed her last muley at a good poke with one shot from her .243. The ammunition issue is really a moot point because most good gun stores carry all of it and it's really one of the lower costs associated with any hunt. Buy something they'll shoot and you'll have hunting partners for life. You can always buy something bigger if the need arises but the 7mm/08 and .308 have the bullet selection to allow for the heavier bullets if need be and both of them will take an elk.

 

[HuntElk4Fun_]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-08 AT 01:40AM (MST)[p]ce61-

Yes, I mentioned... "It [270WSM] kicks similiar to a standard 270 yet you gain back engery and velocity". With that in mind, I was referencing Chuck Hawks recoil table: http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm As you can see, they are "similiar" with 150gr bullet and considerbly more than the 7mm-08. The 7mm-08 is in the 12-13 lbs range vs. the 270 and 270WSM are in the 17-20 lbs of energy range. Notice many calibers fit into this range of gun (e.g. 30-06, some 7mm Mag loads, etc).

My wife/boys have also shot a standard 270 and 270WSM and both think they kick the "same". Both notice a difference when going down to the 7mm-08. While I realize their opinions or the "same" isn't hard data, I still respect it because it's so mental anyway. Thier mind is going to create bad habits and flinching vs. technique/calibers anyway. Still, I like the data to back it up too so I know the situation I'm putting them.

Overall, my point simply is that the 270 Win is often mentioned as a "kids or woman's gun", when simply it isn't much different then other calibers in regards to recoil. Doesn't mean kids/women can use it. I can see how it fits regarding barrel length, weight of the gun and so on, but still recoil is similiar to others. I just feel if they can handle a 270 Win get a 270WSM and get back some energy and velocity while keeping the same sized gun and similiar recoil.

P.S. - Looking at your numbers, you probably referenced the similiar tables. You also probably referenced 130 gr load out of the 270 Win which is light on elk. I was going off comparable elk loads (140 gr 7mm-08, 150 gr 270 Win/270 WSM). Although we do shoot 140 gr bullets at everything out of our 270WSMs. It is a handload and "reduced" when it comes to powder, but still chronographed at 3040fps.

ODDNUT1
Kirt C.

 

[bogey]

The recoil pad is a good point that I for got and one that I hate on the youth guns. Most of the youth guns they put a crappy thin pad on to save cost. The size of the gun is part of the youth idea, but very much so is recoil and a good pad makes a lot of difference it making the recoil more pleasant.

 

[ce61]

oddnut1, i think a better recoil calculator is http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp if you compare a 140 grain bullet with 47.2 grains of imr4350, which according to my sierra manual is what a 7mm08 needs to go 2900 would have 14.01 ft.lbs. of recoil. a 270 shooting a 140 would need 51.8 grains of the same powder to go 2900 and would have 14.89 ft.lbs of recoil. and both guns are 8 lbs.
i think hawk's list uses numbers published by different places and that is why there is such a difference. in his list, i believe a 260 rem shooting a lighter bullet has more recoil than the 7mm08 on the same list.
again not trying to start an argument as i to think the 7mm08 is a nice round... ce61

 

[REDDOG]

I kinda like the older rounds, never been much of a fan of the 308 or it's offspring. but if you hand loaded, a 257 bob, 6.5x55 would be a great choice. if thats to light for elk, a 7x57 will get er done, worked for bell on a 100 or so elephants, should be an ok elk round!

 

[lve2143]

REDDOG,

You nailed it.

I'm a BIG fan of the .308 o'spring,
but I hear you talking.

.257 Roberts, one of the best rounds
that ever went downrange.

Original 7x57..same deal.

Some of the old 6.5 rounds were WAY
ahead of their times....

And still good hunting rounds Right Now.

lrv

 

[HuntElk4Fun_]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-09 AT 00:11AM (MST)[p]ce61-

I too think the 7mm-08 is a great round, especially for kids. Using your link, I plugged in my chronographed 270WSM load (140 gr at 3040 fps, 56.5 gr of H4350) using an 8 lb gun for comparable results. 16.82 ft/lbs of enery was the recoil. The 270 in your example was 14.89. Hardly a huge difference. Especially when looking at my 7mm Mag load (also chrono'd): 22.69 ft/lbs.

I'm with ya, not looking for an arguement either. I enjoy talking guns especially performance and ballistics. My point is simply that if you can handle a 270 Win - get a 270 WSM and gain back some performance... your kids or wife won't know the difference.

Back to the original post, I would recommend the 7mm-08 for kids/wife and if done right, don't rule out a 270WSM either, especially if a 270 Win is on your list.

ODDNUT1
Kirt C.

 

[Califelkslayer]

Last year I bought my girlfriend a 7mm-08 in Savage (116 I think) I paid the extra $100.00 for stainless, had it cut down and a limbsaver installed and put a Leopold on it. With rings and mounts and sling I had almost $1,100 into the rig. Damn good shooter, no recoil, rather light gun, ACCURATE!! I love the crisp, adjustible trigger. Maybe Savage is the only gun Co that isn't run by lawyers.

Only problem is when she slow feeds rounds, they tend to not feed well. She's a lil hesitant at the range. It always feeds fine for me.

I'm very happy with the choice I made. The 140 grain Accubond with 57 grains of IMR 4350 gives a nice, 2900 fps round that shoots great outta her gun. In fact, very time I take her out, I gotta shoot a few myself between touching off my .338

I've always been a Browning guy but I think my next gun will be a Savage.

 

[sageadvice]

ODDNUT1 +1

i too think a lot a gals and some kids could handle the 270 WSM without difficulty. There is some buck to the bark but IMO, no worse than most of the many .270 Win. i've shot. As always, IMO, ear protection is a major factor in shooting comfort. For kids, i recommend ear plugs and the muffs. To me, all guns seem to kick less when i'm ear protected up to the max.

Another great point in favor of the 7mm-08 is you can buy factory 120 grainers for low recoil hunting deer or practice with at the range. Then, with an Elk tag in her or your pocket, you can step up to Hornady's lite-mag loading of 140gr pills at 3000fps, no doubt a deadly loading with a well placed shot.

Joey

 

[lve2143]

My bride of 14 years shoots her
deer with 100 gr. Noslers over 54
grains of IMR 4831 in a .25-06.

She can lay'em down with it.

Hard to dispute.

LRV

 

[ce61]

hey califelkslayer, you must have a typo error with your 7mm08 load. i belive the case capacity is about 55 grains total and you list that for your powder amount. ce61