Oregon Elk Are GONE!

H

HKShooter

Guest
I talk to a lot of serious elk hunters and YES some had success this year, but by-in-large I'm hearing how piss poor the elk numbers are and how packed it was with other hunters. I've hunted the same area for about 10 years and have a good pulse on what is going on and I believe the number of elk are down more than 60% and the number of hunters are doubled. I hunt the Desolation and Starkey Units.

What are the rest of you finding?
 
Me too, but it's where I hang my hat. Dang it man! The ODFW has to get it together and manage our dwindling elk and deer populations.
 
Hey I pulled one out of the Desolation Unit. It took a couple of days to figure out the elk, but once we got into them I gotter done.
 
We found a couple in a OTC unit. I agree the hunting in most easy to reach areas is way overcrowded at this point. We had to get back a long ways to find some bulls that were rutting good. I think the 10/100 ratios play a huge part. When I see raghorn 5s with 15 cows I don't expect a lot of aggressive rutting to be going on. Those dudes would rather be quite and try to sneak around with their ladies and do the business. You gotta have some competition to really get things fired up.

This guy was not big enough to have his own ladies where we were.

My bull getting a bath.
48e371412b778c46.jpg
 
Very Nice Oregon Bull. I agree that one has to get way back to get rutting bulls that are acting like rutting bulls, then again my buddy was into rutting bulls all season around a major highway. Just frustrated with the elk/deer population in general 'cause it seems to be getting worse every year.

Mike
 
I don't know, I get a little riled about people running Oregon down. I think there's plenty of elk around. I stuck a pisscutter in the Ochocos after hunting for a day and a half this year, and there were elk all over the yard up there. AND, my buddy stuck a bull opening weekend this year that went a legit 387, the sickest thing I've seen, a true beast. So, I don't think it's nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
 
I hunted Desolation this year too, I always do. I spent 15 straight days hunting there and killed a cow 3rd to the last day. I hunted two types of areas.

The first being way back away from roads and steep nasty country. There were no people until the last couple days there. There was decent rutting activity there about the 13th through the 15th. Then it cooled off. We called in two decent bulls and they were silent. There was no bugling to speak of however. I was really surprised at the quality of bulls that far back. I mean a herd bull was a 5 point. I saw no 6 points. There are some nice bulls in the desolation but I saw smaller bulls running herds of cows on about 4 separate occasions.

The second place I hunted was down lower and there were a ton of people. People bugling there heads off (IDIOTS) The elk were a little more vocal and I got into more elk down there than in the area that had no hunting pressure. Go figure. My brother called in a non-typical 6 point using estrus cow calls. He watched two small 5 points fighting over a cow that was whining.

It was a weird season, the elk were rutting but they were doing it silently. I also know for a fact that there are elk all over that unit, there are a ton of elk up there. There are just too many places for them to hide, that's a thick unit, lots of reprod. There was no shortage of sign every where we went.

I do think there is a lack of mature bulls and competition as mentioned earlier. This keeps the rut from really swinging up. There are so many cows in that unit that every bull can have as many as he wants, even a raghorn 4 point.
 
Hey steelie can you tell me a little bit about your Ochoco hunt? PM me or something. I have been wondering if it's worth burning points for. I'm tired of hunting with so much pressure, it would be nice to hunt with half the amount of people. How was it with other hunters?
 
387 in the Ochoco unit? or even Oregon for that matter? Ochoco is my back yard and I didn't hear about it. I'm not saying it's not true but that would be one of the top Oregon bulls of all time be it typical or nontypical so he found the needle in the haystack

In any event Oregon's deer hunting is beyond bad and our elk hunting is slipping, no question about it. increased predation due to lack of deer and too many cow tags are my guess as to where the elk are going.
 
I would love to get the scoop on a 387 bull outa the ochocos....I usually hear a lot, and haven't heard anything like that. Maybe off one of the ranches and they're keeping it quiet but i'm suspicious already.....colby's 2006 bull is the new state record and it grossed 387 5/8 and netted 378 6/8..........a 387 archery bull from the ochocos would be awsome.......
 
The 387 I know of was killed by Robby Shaw just out of Bly. YES BLY. I'll see if I can get some photos. They watched this bull for years with trail cams at the local water hole.

Maybe the elk were all down low this year because of the snow pack last winter? They were not up high in the numbers they usually are.
 
I have to disagree on the elk numbers. The trends I've noticed are more elk and less deer. I can't say that for all Oregon, but what I've seen is more elk. I think there are a ton of reasons for lower success. Pressure for sure is one as well as hunters educating elk with calling. Riding around on a atv won't get you an elk either. All in all I think there is plenty of opportunity out there for elk. Deer is an all together subject.
 
Hey HK, how do you know Rob? He and I chased that bull for five years. I'll upload a picture of his bull tonight. Believe me, it's that much more impressive in real life. He actually got the whole thing on video but I doubt he'll let me post that.

Oregonbowhunter, I'll PM you about the Ochocos when I have more time. I have to get back to work.
 
Well, if somebody can explain to me how to upload a picture I would post one of Rob's bull. I guess I'm just a dummy...
 
Steelie, I sent you an email, so you can send me pics and I'll post them for you. Tut is a good buddy.

Hey troutcrk don't just post numbers, POST PICS!

What I'm hearing is hot spots and cold spots for elk. It sounds like everyone thinks the deer population is in trouble...

Sometimes I wonder how objective hunters are in general...it's kind-of like having 40 boats on the river and one boat caught 5 salmon and the other 39 caught 5 all total...if you talk to one boat the fishing was off the hook...if you talk to the other 39 boats, the fishing sucked.

HK
 
Elk numbers in eastern Oregon are up from what they were 20 years ago no doubt, but they aren't what they were 10 years ago. in my part of the state I'd say herds are doing OK but not at their high for sure.

I just spent a week in Murderer's Creek and I saw about the same number of elk I'd expect to, a fair number. the deer situation however is the worst I've seen in my lifetime of hunting there. I saw bambi, his little brother and a few does. I can't say as a sportsman I feel there should even be a deer season in most of eastern Oregon, more like an ESA listing would be proper. it's pathetic, and as bad as it is idiots were shooting what few dinks they could find.
 
Its bad enough that our deer and elk numbers are very low. Its not going to get any better with the new wolf pack that is established in NE Oregon. If we also don't get control of the bear and cougar numbers, deer and elk will continue to decline. Plus, tag numbers need to be reduced. There's definatly not enough deer and elk numbers to be giving out that many tags!!!
 
Here is a picture of Rob Shaw's bull that he killed 09-02-08 in Oregon on public land. It green scored 387 and change and they took in 580 pounds of hanging meat. It's gonna net either #2 or #3 archery all time in the state, but he told me it's the biggest gross archery bull ever. Rob and I and another guy have been watching this bull for 4-5 years and hat's off to Rob for the effort he put in. I don't how many days I spent out there and Rob spent at least double what I did. Anyway, good job, brother. So I'm just sayin', they're not all gone, and I think the elk are doing just fine in OR.

48fe412861d028e9.jpg
 
Very nice bull , but a super bull or two doesn't mean the herds in general are in great shape. elk numbers in most units are stabile or on the decline, if we could hold numbers where they are I wouldn't worry much. my concern with ODFW's track record things seem to go the wrong direction, deer hunting is about worthless and elk are all we have left so deep concern about the future is warranted.
 
I think the next couple years we are going to see the cow seasons on the eastside totally eliminated. It is the only thing the odfw has left to do to save the elk and deer. Unless the westside decides to grow a brain we are going to see elk and deer hunting get worse. Not all areas are bad mainly the farther east you go the worse it seams to get.
 
A true test of how our herds are doing is to compare to other states. I've hunted all the elk states and their reputations for the most part are accurate in my experience. Utah has the biggest bulls...Montana has a pile of bulls and some dandies...Wyoming has some really good bulls and a growing herd...Arizona has a smaller herd but there is a good chance for a monster...Idaho is possibly the best OTC state....etc

SO WHAT IS OREGON'S REPUTATION AND LEGACY GOING TO BE? AND HOW WILL THE HUNTING BE FOR OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN?

ODFW manages this state as an OPPORTUNITY state and it isn't working. We all can agree the muleys are damn near extinct and the elk numbers in the eastern half are down and are going to continue to fall without proper predator control, which includes them flippn wolves.

In my opinion, Oregon COULD HAVE a reputation of solid elk numbers with the chance at a monster and solid muley numbers, with a buck to doe ratio that makes sense. WOULDN'T THAT BE DREAMY TO LIVE IN STATE THAT HAS A REPUTATION LIKE THAT.

Just my humble opinion based on more than 15 year hardcore archery hunting.

HK
 
For not having any elk left there sure are a lot of out of state hunters during bow season that must have got some bad info.
 
That's because of over the counter tags and we have better hunting than WA and CA. how many NR Oregon tags do you suppose Idaho hunters buy?
 
Huntindude +1 or Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico

I think in order to fully understand Oregon's situation one must hunt these other states to get proper perspective on what Oregon COULD be. It wasn't too long ago that Utah had a reputation for some nice mulies only...now people are clammering to hunt big bulls there...WHY? Because their DFW managed their elk for that reason. I'm not saying I want Oregon to be Utah, but the direction Oregon is going seems to be downward in game quality and quantity.

All I'm saying is Oregon has the land, water, cover, feed and the resources to establish itself as a a place where the elk are plentiful and the mule deer are abundant.

HK
 
Oregon could be a great state with quality and quantity. As everyone knows we need to get rid of some of the cougars and bears. But that's a tough one.

I think one thing that would go a long way is reducing the amount of access in Oregon. There are too many open roads, in so many places, you can't walk a half mile without running into a road.
 
I hunt the same large rough roadless country for deer I've hunted for 30 years, in the last 10 years it's gone from poor to the point the deer should be in the ESA this year. I seldom see more than one or two hunters off the main road in a week of hunting and very few deer are taken out of the area by hunters. as you say I've decided it has to be cats, I see plenty of lion sign every year, I just don't know what else it could be.

ODFW says it's not cats it's a something they can't figure out, what a stupid response. in any event it's so bad now I don't see decent hunting coming back in the next 20 years even if they closed season. it's pathetic, my concern is elk hunting will follow the same trend if we accept it like we have the deer decline.
 
Agreed!

My top 10 list in no particular order:

#1 Too much and too easy of access (close some roads)
#2 Too much predation (not enough cats, bears and dogs dying...need a bounty on all of them)
#3 Too many hunters in certain areas
#4 Poor calf retention in certain areas (predation)
#5 Stop mule deer hunting is certain units for a couple years minimum. This has worked in other states very well.
#6 Stop those stupid spike hunts and land owner cow hunts where half the herd is wiped out by one group of hunters.
#7 Increase winter range with coop from land owners. Takes $$.
#8 Increase winter range on public ground by increasing feed sources and improving habitat. Lots of groups already do this, but more is needed. And oh by the way, manage our timber lands to better fit the animals, people and timber companies not the flippn environmentalists.
#9 Increase fines for poaching.
#10 Manage more units for quality.

HK
 
The Forest Service is planning a closure of 4200 miles of roads in NE Oregon, check out their proposal on the NF website. It's suppose to be implemented in 2010.
 
Road closure areas are great and I think they will help the elk in some areas. I won't hunt in an area that isn't either a closure or a wilderness, I can't stand the quads everywhere.

I still don't think in many areas roads or hunter pressure are the deer problem, my area is large and has almost no roads, very very light hunter pressure and almost no deer anymore. this is an area I used to see more hunters than today and pass on 4 points that weren't big enough just 10 or 15 years ago, we haven't had a killer winter since 92/93 and the hunting was after that than now. I'm not saying overhunting and too many roads aren't the problem in some ares but my area is proof there are other factors at work, big time.
 
>The Forest Service is planning a
>closure of 4200 miles of
>roads in NE Oregon, check
>out their proposal on the
>NF website. It's suppose to
>be implemented in 2010.

Can you provide a link to this? I looked and could not find anything.
 
>That's because of over the counter
>tags and we have better
>hunting than WA and CA.
>how many NR Oregon tags
>do you suppose Idaho hunters
>buy?


I agree that wa and ca hunters buy tags. That is funny idaho hunters buying oregon tags. I have hunted idaho the last three years and 2 of the 3 years I have shot 6 point bulls and saw numerous other bulls. I have hunt other states as well and it is a real eye opener on the quality hunt outside of oregon. My brother in law and I are going to make the rounds starting with colorado next year then wyoming or montana oh I have a lot of points for utah as well. Probably throw in NM as well. If you stick to one state it could be a long time before you find a quality animal or an animal period. I had to rein myself in sorry I get a little peeved at oregons system.
 
I had 10 bulls bugling when I shot my bull in NM this year. It was the 3rd bull we called in that morning, in about 15 minutes time.

When you're driving out at night in a diesel truck and can hear several bulls bugle at you as you drive by, you know you're not in Or.

There is a profound difference of opinion between NM and OR with regard to Elk herd management and hunting.
 
I honestly don't think the elk are gone, they are just mainly on private land (from what I see). I have seen a ton of elk on private land and all you can do is just stand at the fence and watch. I believe that all units should go to draw for archery (I'm a bowhunter) This would eliminate all the hunters that don't draw rifle tags and decide "oh I'll just go buy a bow and go bowhunting since I didn't draw a rifle tag."

SteelieP08, do you have a better picture of that bull because that picture doesn't make him look 387. But still an excellent bull. Tell your buddy good job.

Just my two cents
 
Here is my ugly mug with Rob's bull. I wish I could post the video he shot of it, pretty awesome stuff.

4908af4d73cea06b.jpg
 
I saw over 1000 elk and 66 branch antlered bulls during bow season in oregon this year. All public land and all over the counter tag areas. Also all in wilderness areas. To me this is a testament to wilderness areas and road closures.
 
>I saw over 1000 elk and
>66 branch antlered bulls during
>bow season in oregon this
>year. All public land
>and all over the counter
>tag areas. Also all
>in wilderness areas. To
>me this is a testament
>to wilderness areas and road
>closures.


Being in such a target rich environment how did you do? If you tagged post some pictures...
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-09 AT 03:56PM (MST)[p]

I passed on a lot of bulls and f'ed up many opportinities, but on the last day available to me to hunt, I felled old milky lips here. I had a nice bull pushing a herd out of a meadow at daylight, and was set up on the trail waiting for a shot. When the big bull walked out this little guy was standing just in front of him. Then the big bull squirted, and with the spike still standing there, I shot him out of spite. I enjoy paying him back for srewing up my chance at a dandy bull everytime I take a bite.
normal_DSC_0073.JPG


For more pictures of this and with a story, check out a post called "2008" a good year, in the general forum. Including this years bears and Elk from me and two of my other buddies.
 
Kudos to you... I know how hard it is sometimes to close the deal...


Good Ole saying

"There is many a slip 'tween a cup and a lip"

Those big guys will be back next year and they may even be a bit bigger!!!!!!!
 
This patrticular bull has earned the nickname heartbreaker. Ive chased him for three years now. For somereason, he hides all season and shows up at the eleventh hour. Twice, near the end of the season I've had him dead to rights and the wind or other elk screw me up. Once I was full draw on him at 3 yards waiting for him to walk into a hole in the alders, and a little five point blew and took him along. He is a good strong 330 7x7, with great mass. I have nightmares about this bull all the time. Can?t wait to get a crack at him next year.
 
oldoregon,

Sounds like you had a good year...guiding I'm assumming. That is a monster spike:) Like you, I smack down whatever turns my crank at that moment. Sometimes I let 'em walk and sometimes they just piss me off and I smack 'em them. Every year we total our numbers and the bull ratio has been steady, but the overall numbers have been down.

From your numbers, you had a 6.6% bull ratio. What unit do you guide and have you been in that unit for long and if so what have the previous years been like? Just curious, 'cause I think the ODFW is feeding us a line of B.S. about the health of OUR herds.

HK
 
I guide in the Minam, Imnaha, and Snake River units. These numbers exclude the Snake River unit. Iv? been guiding in the Snake and Minam for 5 yeas, and last year was my first in the Imnaha. These numbers exculde spikes, which I saw a ton of (more than I have ever seen). The numbers were as good as I have ever seen in Minam and Imnaha, but only in the wilderness- outside of the wilderness the elk numbers were piss poor. the snake was in the sorriest shape I have ever seen it. During rifle spike season my girlfriend and I backpacked in my favorite spot for 3 days, and saw one elk, with very little sign. This is a place where I usually see upwards of 500 ELK A DAY. We finally taged one after changing locations and spotting a herd bedded in the timber. So, where were all the elk from my favorite spot. Some on private property I would assume, and perhaps they were still in the high country? Or maybe the numbers just suck. I don't know.
 
Road Closures
I dont know that road closures necassarily mean better elk numbers. I have hunted the Starkey unit Dry Beaver road closure area for the last 15 years. I have noticed a definite redusced number of elk every year. We pack in or walk in five to six miles every day. Places that in the mid 90's we would see 100 plus per day we are now seeing 10 -15. There is private property each way approx. 5 miles. Are the elk staying on the private grounds?? I don't know. We used to see large herds moving oof the private every day after 10 - 11Am We no longer see this. The elk seem to be holed up in the thickest nastiest stuff imaginable. I can always find elk, just might not be able to see what I have kicked out. Archery hunters hit this area real hard. Are they scaring the animals into the nastiest spots? I don't lay blame to any one. We all buy our tag and hope to fill it. ODFW definitely needs to take alook at other states management policies and follow up on them. As a side the weather has been extremely warm the last few years during first season rifle, I am sure this has some bearing as to where the elk are.
best wishes to all fellow hunters in 2009
 

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