Oryx Hunt Information

[balz]

Here is some information that you didn't even know you wanted to know.

This is the official kill record released to all of last years Hunters that would have hunted the Stallion Range this information is only from one hunt but is a very good example of what both the Stallion and Rhodes Canyon hunts were like last year.

February 16-17, 2008 Stallion Range Oryx Hunt Summary
# %
Permits 107
Hunters 106 99%
Denied Entry 0 0%
Violations 0 0%
Kills 92 86%
Adults 60 66%
Adult Bulls 29 48%
Adult Cows 31 52%
Reported Pregnant 12 38%
Subadults 32 34%
All Bulls 44 47%
All Cows 48 53%
Non-Typical 29 31%

The two numbers I would like you to pay the most attention to are the Subadult kills and the Non-Typical kills. Now taking into account that I have never seen a non-typical brownie in three years of setting outside of the gate and watching each Oryx leave the hunt area. I am left with the feeling that the 31% of Non-typicals were all adult animals. Leaving the 34% Sub-adults all to themselves.

The point I am trying to make is this, if the two catagories do not overlap then when the missle range is saying there is a high 80's or low 90's success rate on the range they are not taking into account how many of the animals are less than what we all hope to harvest when we come to a once in a lifetime hunt. By my calculations we are talking almost 2/3's of the Oryx are less than a "good representation of the species".

The only catch to this whole equation is that there are broken horn hunters added into this equation that can only harvest animals that do have broken horns. This number is not shown but I can tell you that the average number of broken horn hunters harvesting each hunt was typically between 8-10 animals out of a possible 15. This throws my numbers off a little but not very much as there were some hunts the number of successful broken horn hunters was less sometimes it was more.

In conclusion I would like to refer back to the post that compass west posted a couple of days ago that showed what the success rates were for guided hunters versus non-guided hunters. The difference was 7% making it look like there was only a 7% better odds of harvesting an Oryx if you chose to book a guide for your hunt. What those numbers do not tell you is that all 91% of the guided hunters took "good representations of the species".

If you are from out of state or have never spent any time on the range and are at all worried about the quality of the animal you may or may not kill I would seriously consider some help on these hunts. The amount of money already invested is so much that it is truly a shame to see hunters go home empty handed or with a less than desirable Oryx, from a hunt like this. Hope this shines some light on to the current situation of the Oryx Hunting. If you have any questions feel free to post or pm me and if I dont know the answer I probaly know someone who does.

Jordan

 

[wapitihunter338]

Hey Jordan

What was the final tally for last weekends Rhodes Canyon hunt?

 

[balz]

It was 67 killed I believe, it was one of the worst weekends I have seen out there. The wind was keeping them brushed up pretty bad. There was 2 gaggers killed and a bunch of really nice ones but there was a ton of sad, tired faces coming out Sunday night thats for sure.

Jordan

 

[lchcguide]

Balz,

I agree with you in a since about the size of animals being taken.

There are other factors that you must consider as well. My mom was a hunter on that hunt on Stallion that you have the stats for and my mom has them as well. We talked to about 15 other successful hunters that harvested oryx on that particular hunt. Out of those 15 hunters every single individual considered any oryx with two equal sides a once-in-a-lifetime trophy. This was my moms first ever big-game hunt and she harvested a 26" bull shot at 250 yds on at fast lope. Size of the animal is not what all hunters are after. Each of the 15 hunters we talked were not worried about size but the were more interested in the hunt and the meat.

My bro-in-law was on the Rhodes Hunt last weekend and we had such an unbelievably great time out there and we harvested a nice mature 32" bull. We seen bigger and past but the way the stalk went down and the time we were having he decided it was time to take his oryx. I also know that many other hunters on this hunt were simply after an oryx. Nothing big just meat in the freezer.

Try not and assume that all hunters on the missile range are trophy hunters because a vast majority are not and they are just pleased to have such an opportunity to hunt an animal that most hunters will never have enough money to chase them in their native lands.

 

[habitat]

What you say is true to somewhat,we drew 2 tags this year one for SR and one for RC and yes we would have been happy with about any Oryx but thank goodness I got ahold of Chris with Compass West for my 12 year old daughters hunt on SR because without his help it would have been almost impossible having never hunted them before.
She ended up making a 370 yard shot on a 36" cow and the next weekend I lucked into a 35 3/4 bull on RC.Great hunts,to bad once in a lifetime.Hope you guys had a good year balz.

 

[sportsman01]

Gents,

I've been on 4 Oryx Hunts (all badge hunts) this year (guiding/helping) and we've seen plenty of quality animals, including in the dreaded south of 70 unit. The last two weekends were spent in the North San Andreas hunt area and we saw several very nice bulls including a 38" bull harvested by a young hunter we took out. Most of these were on the border of the Rhodes/N. San Adreas Hunt area. We had opporutnities at three other bulls that were every bit as big, but were unfortunately unable to seal the deal.
I do agree that the number of 40" animals is decreasing, but there are still plenty of animals in the 36"- 38" in class. Maybe my opinion is skewed, but of all the Oryx I've seen harvested while working at WSMR, I'd consider anything in that range a great representation.
I think part of the problem is the amount of hunting pressure that is going on. The larger bulls are hanging by themselves and are being pushed into the foothills and even the mountains because of the pressure. Two of the bulls we found were up in the high juniper and pinon and they stay there because they arent being pressured or shot at every weekend. Also, lot's of 2-3 yr old animals are being harvested, preventing them from reaching their full horn length/body size. I've seen several animals shot in groups where the harvested Oryx was the biggest of the group, but the entire group were immature animals. So, in turn, the hunter ends of with a 30-32 animal where they were expecting a 37-39 in animal.
Also, unless you've seen a good number of Oryx, they are tough to Judge. Judging a single Oryx or a pair of Oryx together takes practice and inexperienced hunters I think are harvesting animals that are smaller than they initially think.
There were good numbers of Oryx and we did see some very large cows as well. I've only seen two confirmed 40" animals, but two of the cows in that area were pushing that mark.
South of 70 was has been a different story all together. Not as many animals and very hard to hunt. Glassing is extremely difficult due to the abundance of dunes and mesquite taller than most trucks.
One hunter took a 36x38" cow. The 38 inch horn would fall under the non-typical category as it turns and parallels her back. We did see some other groups but they were mostly brownies, or sub adults. Only saw a few bulls and nothing over 37-38. I had a few hunters miss close shots at some very nice bulls, but that's hunting I guess!

In any case, these animals are awesome, and if you have the patience to get up and glass and pass up the smaller animals, espeically in Rhodes, Oscura, Stallion, And the N. and S. Andreas hunt areas, you can find Oryx that are good representations. Don't be nieve enough to think that Oryx won't go in higher elevations. I made that mistake early in my Oryx hunting career, butthey do, and some of the bigger animals like it there!!

Good luck to all and thanks for all your info Balz!

 

[kysersosay]

I've worked for the Missile range and/or the Game Department since 1995 and have worked as a hunt official for dozens of oryx hunts all over the range.

It sounds like Balz has some interest in hunters choosing to hunt with an outfitter, and I'm not trying to rock the boat or get in anyones personal business, but I think that anyone with any minimal amount of hunting and shooting experience would be totally wasting their money hiring a guide.

As a hunt official, I've "guided" hundreds of folks having troubles finding, judging, and killing oryx on these hunts(usually on the second day). It's not rocket surgery. It usually comes down to people who have not taken the time to be proficient with their rifle, have wasted their (short)hunt looking for MobeyDick, or are just plain clueless.

I'm not exactly following Balz' point about the statistics, but I can say that a few of his asumptions are off. Also, I've seen as many brownies killed by guided hunters as anyone else, and what causes hunters as much trouble as anything is passing up 2 dozen 37 inch Oryx looking for a 40 incher. As often as not, I've watched guided hunters pass on 39-40 Oryx with their guide telling them they can do better, only to end up shooting a 34 in the final paniced moments.

Obviously, un-guided hunters do the same things, but it's not at all a situation where guided hunters are consistantly taking better animals. The difference between a nice Oryx and a trophy oryx is about 4 inches- and where your Oryx may fall along that spectrum is about luck as much as skill.

My advise is to read the information they send you, get up close during the briefing and listen well to what the tell you, follow the rules to a T, make sure you've got plenty of gas and some binoculars, don't waste half your hunting day (trying to)close distance on some oryx for miles across the country side afoot. Glass a lot, and put on some miles, set up ahead of moving oryx, and shoot the first long straight horned Oryx that gives you a good clean shot, and be pleased with it. If you do that, you'll have as good a chance of it taping out to 40 as any other expert on the range.

Also- Oryx grow over 90some percent of their horn length and circumferance within the first 18 months of their life. While a bull's bases will get bigger as he gets older, generally age class has nothing to do with horn length, and there are not any fewer 40" Oryx then there have always been.

 

[habitat]

I have only been on 2 oryx hunts,both this year and I think using Compass West on SR saved our tails,it was alot tougher there for my daughters hunt that my hunt on RC.

 

[balz]

Didn't mean to annoy folks I am just pointing out some statistics that I see on the hunts. They are not my own they are the stats taken at the gate by the Biologists. I understand that there are a percentage of hunters that are out there to meat hunt, this is true. I would have to argue that the out of state hunter is almost always not one of them. This post is more for them than anyone. Hunters from back east who generally spend most of there hunting season in a treestand or in the thick wooded areas of the North East have a tough time locating animals and once located do not have lots of experience making long stalks or any stalk for that matter.
Some of these hunters come out west hunting elk and deer and antelope each year and are probably more ready than the latter but like I said before if going home without a good representation of the species is not something you like to think about then getting all the help you can get whether its info. on this site, talking to Gilbert, what ever will prove to be very good time and or money spent.
Once again don't mean to annoy anyone just wanted to pass along some information about what I see. So many locals will scream up and down that this is a slam dunk hunt and although it is still very good, anyone who has recently hunted them on the Once in a Lifetime weekends, will tell you when you come out the gate with an animal you will really feel like you have accomplished something. This is not a canned hunt by any sense of the word, and hunters need to come here with their gamefaces on.

Jordan

 

[kysersosay]

Balz- I agree with every word of your last-

sorry to come across as annoyed or somehow contrary.

 

[wapiticraig]

I think what Blaz was getting at is that these hunts have changed, and if you think you might need help then get it.

Here is what I have seen so far this year, Oryx on a dead run at 800+ yards, most stalks take you a long way from the road. The people that do make the stalk and kill one don't have a plan to get it out. They come out the gate with a nice Oryx with no hair left on it after dragging it two miles and the meat is spoiled.

The good ol' days of Oryx standing next to the road saying shoot me are long gone. If you want a good one you have to work for it and need a plan to get it out.

 

[kysersosay]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-25-08 AT 11:26PM (MST)[p]Jordan and Craig, your points are well put and well taken. Sorry if my post read more combative or neagative than I meant it to. I've cautioned people for many years not to approach these Oryx as a slam-dunk. I just meant to add some points I should have articulated better. and I'll clairify for those who are interested in NM Oryx.

1. don't let the stats fool you- you'd be surprised at the (lack of) capacity of some of the folks that show up to hunt- (80 year old women with recent hip replacements, 15 missed shots in one day, guys that never spotted an oryx in 2 days????) Few serious hunters go home kicking rocks, but some always do, and that's why they call it hunting. When they do go home empty handed it usually has something to do with at least one or more of the following: being picky and not knowing a good thing when they see it, spending 8 hours chasing 1 oryx across the range and hiking miles back to the truck during the critical final hours of daylight , missed shots, or wounding loss.

2. The quest for a record-book Oryx is just ridiculous in my relatively experienced opinion. Especially given the circumstances of such a short (harder-than-it's-made-out-to-be) hunt. Of course, most can tell a good one when they see one- but the trick is to shoot it cleanly when you get the chance and be happy with it if its a 35" or a 40". If 80% of the Mule-deer in the woods scored between 175-180, and it took 185 to make the book-- field judgeing would be much more of a coin toss.

3. I've paid close attention to guided hunters over the years. It used to be against the rules to have a hired guide for some reason. I just haven't seen a big (if any) difference in trophy size between guided and non-guided hunters. I swear I didn't mean that as an indictment of Oryx guides out there(but I do admit to sharing quite a giggle when the top dog of one of the biggest outfitting services in America and his celebrity client left with a 29 inch brownie)

In the context of your points, I agree that it's probably a good idea for anyone who isn't entirely comfortable with their own capibilities or familiarity, and can afford to bring professional help, to do it. I also agree that in general it DOES increase your liklihood of going home with a great memories and a representative animal.

Without trying to smear the good name of the entire honorable guild of professional hunting guides, just don't get too wrapped up with promises of secret honey holes or record-book bulls. I'll also add that the game wardens and feds that work these hunts want nothing more then to send everyone home happy and bloody, and do a pretty good job of seeing to it that that happens for folks that ask for help.

Good luck to all.

 

[jims]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is how weather impacts success on the 2 day hunts? On the 2 hunts I was on when it got cold and windy the oryx tended to disappear into the tall mesquite and draws where they were almost impossible to find. With only 2 days to hunt, I would pay particular attention to the weather forecast!

The NM hunts are getting mighty expensive for nonresidents. Although I have already harvested my once in a lifetime NM oryx, the pricetag for a tag, gas, etc is getting so expensive that Africa is looking pretty good! If you add a guide fee to the NM oryx hunt you might as well go to Africa? You can hunt oryx (gemsbok) plus other game animals for a week rather than only 2 days!

I went on my NM oryx hunt about 10 years ago. Back then I barely saw a broken horned or nontypical oryx. I couldn't believe all the broken horned oryx I saw on my buddies hunt a couple years ago. I think it is great the NMG&F freed up some broken-horn tags! Although I have nothing to back it up, I'd also say there aren't near as many 40" oryx available today as there were 10 years ago.