Our deer are doomed

[NECALI]

Everything I hear lately has not been good news for our deer. Sageadvice has talked about the lions,Calielkslayer has told us there are basically no deer left in X5B. And the other day I talked to a rancher here in the honey lake valley that told me he has about 40 doe's on his ranch which had about 90 fawns this past spring. I thought WOW thats great. Then he told me there are only about 6 left...SIX out of 90. There's no way that herd can survive with that kind of fawn mortality. He said it's both mt.lions and coyotes. He said they kill aprox. 30 coyotes a month and they just keep coming. Back in the hayday of mule deer they're were alot of sheep ranchers in northern Ca. They were able to poison and trap coyotes and they also shot them from the air. They kept the population of dogs down. I beleive this helped the deer tremendously. Now days we don't hardly have any sheep ranchers, and they can't poison or trap and not many can afford to have them shot from the air. Add to this the lion laws in Ca. and it all adds up to disaster for deer. I don't have much hope for a turn around. It's really sad. Oh,I also heard an update about the bighorn sheep herd that was being wiped out by lions in southern Ca. It had 100 sheep in the herd and the lions were killing them all so F&G was finnaly allowed to take the lions out. Now they have found 3 sheep left.Do you think it might of been a little to late? Thanks alot to the animal rights groups. Lets save the lion's and the coyote's but who cares about the big game they are destroying.

 

[nocalhonker]

Hunted X5B 2 years ago best buck I saw was a 22" 4x4 could of killed it, should be a nice buck this coming year if he made through the lions. We found alot of either lion or winter killed bucks. My guess would be lion kill, a few nice ones the rest were young ones. We saw 3 Lions and a few coyotes. I think if we want the deer herd to come back we need to change the lion law some how. Get it back up for a vote and hunting groups need to really push the dangers and the population needs to be controlled. Whats the worst to happen we can't hunt them. I ended up taking a management buck a 3x4 the last morning. Nocalhonker

 

[sageadvice]

NECALI, You know, i read reports like this and i just want to hang my head and cry. It's so disturbing to me that we have the ability but our hands are tied.

I pray that some miracle happens and once again the wildlife management of the State is somehow completely turned over to those professionals who know how and can do the job that needs to be done before it's too late.

nocalhonker, sounds like you had a much better hunt than some! Congrats on that but remember how many bucks and does can be killed and eaten by a unchecked lion population, not to mention the packs of yotes working as a team to bring down the few healthy remaining animals.

I fear the "cushion" of numbers has been lost and the few remaining animals are doomed!

Joey

 

[Tresspass1]

i would love to get in on how i can help. Does cali offer public meetings with the fish and wildlife, before there monthly stats meetings, Wa state has that and its another way for our voices to be herd.
















Slow and Steady, Draw quietly, Focus, release.....Run like hell when you Miss

 

[sageadvice]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-10 AT 00:46AM (MST)[p]T, here's just one thread on the topic, mostly concerning Mt Lions, but will serve to give you some background.

New ideas are welcome!!

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID40/113.html

Joey

 

[Tresspass1]

Great info, loved the post. We as a group need to fight the battle on a different level(i'm throwing this one out there) we need to be voicing our opinions at the mule deer foundation, and Rocky Mountan elk foundation. they love this Sh*t, i know from the state of Wa. we need to use our energy and focus with these groups first, they have money, bio's, and members that will blow your mind. i hope its a form of action we can all use.



I know if it wasnt for the RMEF, i would have never harvested my elk this year, or even have seen elk in the area i hunted.

just a thought

 

[Tresspass1]

http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos/93532009-11-02_09.29.31.jpg


Just an example of how these groups work for US!

 

[m1fan]

Maybe we should flip the ol' bird to the state and not buy licenses and tags this year. Take our money elsewhere where they appreciate the hunters and what they bring to the table. I hunted X9A last year and did not see the number of bucks like in the past. Have seen lions there though...

 

[Hammnit]

Tresspass1 is on to something. Groups like California Deer Association, Mule Deer Foundation, etc. are set up to be the voice of hunters. One or two guys complaining about mountain lions, coyotes, and the overall lack of deer isn't going to make a difference. The more members that the conservation organizations have the more powerful their voice becomes. There are a bunch of organizations that have good people involved are are doing everthing they can to address the problems.

In my opinion, we need to join together to have our collective voice heard.

 

[Tresspass1]

Thats it! i think it should be our first step, and there are many ways to start chapters, or join local chapters. i know i will be looking for one in the coming weeks ahead. another is the NWTF (National Wild Turkey Foundation)didnt they work hand in hand with DFG, relocating Thunderchickens to cali? i would think the big kittys love there fair share of birds. its just another Big Brother that has lots of money, and political power, that all us hunters and sportsman should be using in our favor.

 

[NickW]

I've been saying this for years.....It's gonna take a kid getting killed in the suburbs of LA, SF or San Diego, before these clowns with their heads up their azzes realize just how bad the cat problem is.

 

[NECALI]

Does anyone know if the mule deer foundation has a chapter up here in NE Cali.I don't ever hear of meetings etc. up here.

 

[Hammnit]

Not sure about Mule Deer. I do know that there are Cal Deer Chapters in Gridley, Chico, Woodland, Alturas and Eureka.
Hammnit

 

[Tresspass1]

you can go to there web site and click on state by state info, there you will find the chapters and other info. the RMEF's web page is set up the same, with alot more info.

 

[Jazz]

There is a CDA Chapter in Tulelake as well.

 

[NORKALNIMROD]

Not to be the doom and gloomer, but this should get your attention. At last years annual training for California Hunter Education Instructors one of the speakers had some very disturbing news. I can not remember the man's name, but he was a shot caller with the California Outdoor Heritage Alliance. This guy has been around. He was with DU and a former Ca. F&G employee. He now lobbies for us. The information he gave us was anything but good. He stated that at the rate the antis are succeeding in California, hunting will be TOTALLY banned within ten years! He stated that the various anti groups are working as one and have set their sights on California, knowing that if California falls most states will follow. NOT buying licenses is the wrong move. Just the opposite. We need to get as many people involved in our passion as we can! We also need to support the groups, corporations and businesses that support us.

On another note, our deer herd is indeed pathetic! I can remember the 70's and 80's, when this time of year the wintering grounds were full of deer. You couldn't drive from Sierraville to Chilkoot without seeing hundreds and I feel safe in estimating at times well over a thousand deer in that valley. I spend a substantial amount of time in X5a and 5b during Chukar season. The deer population gets worse every year. Although I am far from an expert in anything, I believe there is a combination of reasons our herd is failing. Lions are definitely an issue and major player. I have found numerous lion kills in our area. I found two within yards of each other, a week apart on Cherry Mountain last year. Tracks and scat is abundant. The wild horses and burros are another major problem. They are not native and they compete for graze and water. Another issue is non-native intrusive vegetation, Cheat Grass. Cheat Grass has very little protein and has taken over and choked out native grasses. Winter kill animals are found starved to death with full bellies. My final belief is evolution. While Whitetail numbers flourish, Muley numbers in most areas continue to decline. I don't have the answers but I believe an aggressive program to reduce the cat and horse population would go a long way to helping our Muley herd grow.
Anyway, just my nickel's worth.

Norkal


INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!

 

[sageadvice]

NORKALNIMROD, Good, Sad, but Informative Post!!

Concerning the antis, the writing is on the wall and concerns all of us. The sad part is, the rest of the Country doesn't realize that when they get done with Cali, they are headed next door and they won't stop until their anti hunting agenda is realized nation wide.

I've seen way to many comments in these pages where guys show indifference to Cali's problems because they believe it won't happen in their own State. In reality there should be a nation wide upheaval of major concern and moneys spent to fight the germ right here where the battle is still in it's infancy. I just don't see that happening though...too many think it won't effect themselves.

Joey

 

[BomberBlackies]

Give accolades to the illegal immigrant DOPE growers as a contributor to the declining deer herds! Also, I think people would be surprised how many deer meet their demise by coyotes and bears! Bring back the bounty on yotes.

 

[6x7]

When the wolves move down from idaho and oregon they will take care of the coyotes I am not sure about the lions though.The coyote is wolves enemy and they will not tolerate them and will kill all that they can catch.

 

[brownie]

+1 Bomber. THE COYOTES AND BEARS, are a bigger problem than most people think. After extensive studies on the Round Valley Deer herd , it was determined that predation accounted for most of the fawn deaths in the summer fawning grounds.Collared deer that crossed over the Sierra were monitored, after they had their fawns, usually twins,there offspring were taken down, by coyotes and bears, and a occasional mountain lion. The deer that summer on the east side of the range, mostly around Mammoth Lakes, the place with all the people, came back to the winter range with twin fawns. Check this out with D.F.G.
Also, HUNTERS, WE NEED TO BAND TOGETHER. Take your kids, your neighbors kids and anyone else hunting! Join the C.D.A., M.D.F. and support lobby groups like California Outdoor Heritage Alliance. If you don't, plan on getting a mouthful of nuts to chew on and hugging a tree. Thanks, Brownie.

 

[Califelkslayer]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-10 AT 11:18PM (MST)[p]NECALI, There was. I knew a couple of guys that started a Chapter in Susanville BUT the first year their banquet was 2 weeks after RMEF banquet. Another year it was during deer season. Not sure if they're still around BUT I'm sure the Mule Deer Foundation (MDF) has a web-site with contact info. Let us know.

HEY GUYS!!!!!!! There is already an organization fightin for our cause. Join the NRA. You don't have to agree with all their positions but they have fought for our rights for 50 years, and pretty successfully I might add.

And the last thing I'm worried about is wolves. They'd starve here.