Outfitter Honesty

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wallhanger

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How many of you have run into less than honest outfitters out there? I had an experience with an outfitter this year, luckily I wasn't hunting with them.

We were in West Texas on our hunt this year, and ran into some outfitters in town while having dinner. They were nice enough guys and started chatting us up about the big deer they have on their ranches in the area. We enjoyed visiting with them, and they started "selling" a little more at the end of the conversation.

Long story short, one of them says hey, let me show you the kind of deer we hunt in these here hills, and invites us out to look at a picture of a buck he'd killed "in this area" "the previous year". He gets out of his truck a 195 B&C monster high, wide and HEAVY muley photo with him posing with the deer. My first comment was wow, I didn't realize deer got that heavy out here in the desert. "Oh yeah," he says, "you just have to know where to look." We were obviously impressed, and encouraged about our next few days hunting in the area since that deer was killed "just across the road" from the ranch we were hunting.

Fast forward to last week, as I'm browsing the web for a hog hunt to take my son on between deer seasons. I come across this outfitter's website, and say "these guys were nice, I'll see what they've got." Well, as I'm looking into their hunts, I check out their photo gallery. There, on the first page is the picture that the outfitter showed us. Only on their website it reads, "2004 COLORADO MULE DEER".

To say the least, I was glad I didn't sign up for a hunt with these scheisters. So it got me thinking, how do we know if the deer on these brochures and websites are really taken by the outfitter, in the area they're claiming, and any time in the recent past? I would encourage anybody to check more references before you book a hunt than you think you need to.

WH
 
Sometimes you can have a problem with an outfitter that has a reputation of being honest. I ran into that last year on a guided elk hunt.
I had checked this outfitter out pretty well, and they had a very good reputation. What I didn't know was they had overbooked what they could handle in 2006. Because of this they had a hard time rounding up enough tents, equipment and horses for the hunt. Things that we were told about the hunt, camp and area didn't come true. I was lucky and killed a nice bull on the last day, but it was the only elk I saw.
I have written a letter to the outfitter, 3 emails and 2 phone messages since my hunt. As of this point in time the only reply was a flyer with their 2007 prices.
 
I agree....reference checking and asking a ton of questions is the best way to get a feel for the outfitter.

Three years ago I had a horrible experience on a guided elk hunt in NM. My dad and I hunted hard for 7 days and only saw one elk, fortunate enough it was the elk I killed w/my bow. The "guides" were literally from Labor-ready and had no clue about the country, the herd, or how to call elk. To make a long (very long) story short, it was a mess. When we arrived at camp we spent the 1st day of the hunt helping the outfitter set it up!

The kicker...... they didn't send me my 5X5 until 2.5 years later. I literally thought I would never see them again until they all of a sudden showed up on my door step out of the blue. During the time period of that 2.5 years, RMEF kicked them out, they lost their guiding license in NM, and never once returned any of my calls, emails, letters, etc, etc. Needless to say this experience really opened up my eyes on how to qualify a good outfitter.
 
I think there are more bad outfitters than good ones. They
will tell you anything to get your money. Last one I had
bragged about how we kill big 5x5s up here in Idaho. 6
guys 5 days, 1 spike sighted the whole time. None of us
saw a branch antlered bull. No buck deer either. We were
bunked at his house. Phone would ring all evening and he
would be telling prospective clients about the 150 class
deer that he had running all around. Another one in NM
was similar. He had 10 guys booked for a MZ elk hunt.
He had one guide and was trying to hire guys off the street to
guide. Like previous posters have said. Check references.
Especially check unsuccessful out of state ones. The ones in
state might be his relatives or friends.
 
YEA,..THERE ARE SOME GOOD ONES OUT THERE, BUT IT TAKES ALOT OF HOMEWORK TO WEED-EM OUT. I HAVE HAD SOME GREAT LUCK W/OUTFITTERS & NEVER HAD A BAD HUNT. REFERENCES ARE KEY, BUT I STILL DO ALOT OF DIY HUNTS TOO. TAKE ER EASY, YD.
 
I know for a fact there is at least one very dishonest outfitter from Utah that post's regularly here at this site. He is a crook and I do not wish him well!
 
Blackdeath please pm me too on the outfitter you are referring too. I have a friend who just booked with a guy that posts here frequently & would like to know details. I would like to warn him if its the guy I am thinking of. Thanks, for your help.
 
The brochures that they hand out at shows are not always as good as it seems. One WY outfitter at the Sacramento ISE show had a brochure and I just picked one up to look through it and sure enough there is a hunter with a big NT Muley. Over heard him telling my friend standing next to me that it came out of "their" camp a few years ago.
Boy is that a bold face lie, because he has only owned the Outfit for about 3-4 years having bought it from the original Outfitter who had it from his starting the business many years ago.
The buck in question was taken by a PA hunter back in the 1980's and probably long before this guy even heard of the outfit. The previous owner must have gave him the right to use this picture, but a guess on my part.
The original outfitter I went to school with back in the 50's and he had a habit of telling people he was a WY native. Never says he went to school in CA while growing up. LOL

Need to check the Outfitters out real close and ask a lot of questions and DO check references of both the successful and non-sucessful hunters for their thoughts on the outfitter etc.

Brian
 
Poor Utards. Who is the outfitter in Utah that consistently kills big bucks but while out hunting, the cook, his wife seems to take care of other needs for those nimrods hanging in camp? I'am serious. How about BESS??
 
Just another story.
At one of the bigger shows, I talked with a Colorado outfitter who had two elk mounts at his booth. Both were 380 class bulls, very impressive. He showed me dozens of photos of hunters with 350+ bulls, so I figured it was private property, very high dollar. I asked where abouts he was getting these monster bulls for his clients, he tells me public land, the flat tops wilderness! Tells me he ?knows where they hide out? and try?s to sign me up for a $3500 trophy hunt on public land. If it sounds too good to be true???
 
The easiest way to avoid bad outfitters is to do the hunts yourself.

Much more rewarding and you're absolutely not at the mercy of some dime-store cowboy trying to play hunting guide.

I like to rely on one person for my success or failure on a hunt...ME.
 
OK boys, as an outfitter I can tell you that you will not hunt with me unless you check our references. I wouldn't book with an outfitter unless I checked references (both successful and unsuccessful). Make sure you see pictures of animals taken in the last year. If they tell you they don't have any they are lying. ALL outfitters keep photos. If an outfitter tells you he's 100% on his kill rate he's lying. He may have 100% oppotunity but kills are a different story. Ask extensive questions about camp. You should always ask the same questions to the outfitter as well as his references. Not all Outfitters are bad. There are some good ones out there. It's just like anything else, all it takes is a few bad apples to spoil the bunch. Good luck. I hope all of you who have hunts this fall with outfitters are not disappointed. This is such a good thing to be involved with that it would be very sad to see somebody have a bad experience.

It's always an adventure!!!
 
AWHOLELOTTABULL,

Boy, your handle doesn't do much for making people believe you ;-) Just kidding with you. I know there are good outfitters out there that make getting their hunters opportunities on good animals a year round job with scouting, aquiring new areas and doing their homework. This post was definitely not intended to say all outfitters are bad. Just wanted to point out something I accidentally stumbled across, and it got me thinking about how often this kind of thing goes on. Since it's the time of year to be getting ready for the coming year's hunts, I thought I'd throw a little caution out there for people to really look into things before they put 5 or 10 g's down on a hunt. I think good outfitters always eventually rise to the top, and the frauds get found out sooner than later-especially with more and more forums like this...

WH
 
"Hunt Reports" on the internet has some invaluable info on outfitters---good and bad. You have to pay .99 for it, but if your spending 3k on a hunt......This is actual hunters telling how their hunt went with a particular outfit.

Mike
 
Wallhanger,
I didn't take offense at all. I was just pointing out some of the things I would expect a hunter to do before he hunted with me. I use an outfitter about every other year and I go through a very stringent routine before I book with anybody. You are absolutely right though, there are probably more bad outfitters than good. As an outfitter, you can only hope that things continue to go well and you do the best job possible.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
Is there a legal reason we don't seem to name the bad outfitters when we post on MM? Can we have a forum devoted to outfitters and guided hunts?
 
I just wish Blackdeath had the courage to be 'open' about his knowledge of a crooked outfitter. That way we all could avoid getting hosed. How about it?

PRO
 
It is real easy for a client who didn't have success to bad mouth an outfitter. The client (notice I didn't say hunter) doesn't have anything to lose, and the outfitter is instantly on the defensive. If a client has a beef with an outfitter, the proper thing to do is to file a report with the state outfitter licensing board. The board will conduct an investigation to address the allegations, and make a ruling. That is there job.

Now I will call the IOGA in Idaho to see if a prospective outfitter is a member. the WOGA in Wyoming etc. Most State fish and game divisions will also have contact information to find licensed guides.

Now if there is a ruling from the authorities or G&F that we need to know about., then by all means this is the place to let fellow hunters (notice I said HUNTERS) know. Until then it is just rumor and suspicion.

On the other hand, if you have a bad experience with an outfitter, do the right thing and report it so that other hunters don't fall in the same trap. If you don't follow the regulatory channels then you are condoning the illegal or un ethical behavior.
 
I really think an outfitter can mislead a "client" and it would be impossible for you to prove it. I went on a guided elk hunt with an outfitter with a great reputation. In fact one of the owners of the outfit was the president of the state outfitters assoc. of that state a few years back.
In this state the outfitter puts in for you tag draw. I went over this with the outfitter and agreed to my 3 choices. When I received the results of the draw I was very suprised, I had drawn a tag from a unit we had never talked about. When I called him and asked he told me it was a great unit with lots of elk. As for this unit I saw 1 elk during my hunt, lucky for me it was a nice bull.
We were also misled in what to expect in camp. First of all we were told the camp was 7 miles from the end of the road....it was about 600 yards. We were told we would have cots in camp, not cots. We were told we would have a camp cook, not so, all the cooking and dishes were done by 1 guide and the hunters. We lived on a diet of Twinkees and Pork Steaks for 6 days. There is more than this but I will spare you the details.
My point is we were sold one thing and received something different, how do I prove that?
 
PROUTDOORS, WHY OPEN THAT CAN OF WORMS IF YOU DONT HAVE TO. THAT CAN BE HANDLED WITH A PM IF YOU NEED TO KNOW, IT WOULD GET MESSY. YD.
 
Call me a sceptic, I don't trust 'secret' details. Either one has PROOF and should come clean with it, or one is making up stories and has no proof and should not make assertions that one can NOT back up. That's all.

PRO
 
BUT YOU DONT KNOW ANY OF THAT TO BE CERTAIN, ITS ONLY THE WAY YOU FEEL ABOUT THE INFORMATION. SHOOT HIM A PM, HE MIGHT TELL YOU HIS EXPERIENCE WITH THE FORMENTIONED & HE MIGHT HAVE SOME PROOF....& CAN BACK IT UP. HE REALLY IS MAKING A GOOD DECISION NOT TO SPILL IT OUT TO SEVERAL THOUSAND HUNTERS....AGAIN....COULD BE MESSY. TAKE ER EASY, YD.
 
Proutdoors, I never said I was a client. Nor did I ever say I hunted with the outfitter. I said he was a crook and dishonest. My dealings with him were of a business nature. He flat out stole from me, lied to me, and is a blatant theif. He just happens to be an outfitter and a person I have zero respect for. As far as not posting details, well the problems are still pending and I don't want to post any details until things are resolved. It has nothing to do with secrecy just legality.
 
RE: BearPaw Outfitters out of Washington

You guys made me wonder about this company. I just signed my husband and i up for a Turkey hunt, a surprise for him and a long waited for hunt for me. I have asked about them, have not heard anything bad. have any of you used them in WA, OR ID???

Any information would be appreciated!!
 
RE: BearPaw Outfitters out of Washington

Then why bring it up at all? Either out the guy or say nothing, these little 'hints' do not add credibility to your 'claims'. I have no reason to believe/disbelieve, it is just me wondering what the point of saying anything at all was/is?

PRO
 
RE: BearPaw Outfitters out of Washington

Hi guys check out Hunter Information Sytem's for outfitter review's.

I only got burned on one guided hunt and it was with Donny Carr who runs Golden Eagle Outfitter's out of Colorado.This guy should have a 10 foot nose because he is a 100% bullshi**er.
 
RE: BearPaw Outfitters out of Washington

Pro,
You asked why bring it up? Fair enough question. I wouldn't have, nor would I have cared one wit, except for the fact I noticed he was a regular on this site. I have PM'ed anyone who has asked and even given details to those that wanted to know. It's likely you'll never book with the guy so it should be of no concern to you. However, if I can save some non-resident some grief and money by avoiding this guy, then I'm going to do it. As for you, why should you care or want to defend something you know zero about? Seems pretty foolish to defend that of which you have no knowledge, or do you make a habit of doing that?
 
RE: BearPaw Outfitters out of Washington

Hope no one thinks what is being said is about the above outfitters. I was just wondering if anyone had used them since they are in several different states.
They sound really good,
Just wanted to check them out.
 

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