Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Actually Hawkeye you completely missed the point. It's more like the governor doesn't even know what those words specifically mean. He is just saying them because they will make him sound credible. Much like you saying the words "facts" and "truth".
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Robiland,

We know the childish game Hawkeye is playing. He goes around "asking questions" and lets you bunch of zealots draw your own conclusions and yall say all the garbage he wants spewed for him. Its typical lawyer behavior.

One of my favorite lawyer questions is, "Yes or no, is it true you have stopped beating your wife" :D

This is the game Hawkeye plays and you defend it with this lame question.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Yes TRI... Please Answer the Question.Hawkeye is aways spot on on all this.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Even worse.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Yep. Now maybe you understand my frustration of trying to educate people who follow a man who doesn't know what facts or truth is while battling politicians and government employees who don't know the English language. It is a perfect ignorant storm.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I think you nailed it shotgun, tri just doesn't like Hawkeye so he just uses SFW as an excuse to attack Hawkeye..

I've wondered more than a few times why a fella from Texas that has absulutely no skin in the game feels like he needs to be a spokesman for SFW.

I actually used to like tri's posts when he first started on MM, I thought he often brought up some many fine and well thought out points in most of his posts, but it now seems he has gone from being thoughtful to just hateful.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Like I've said before. Trollstate probably argues with himself in front of the mirror when he's not on MM or sniffing glue in his shop.
Troll has done absolutely nothing to convince me or anyone else of any false statements from Hawkeye.
No doubt Hawkeye understands what has transpired and his voice as a witness to all this crap has probably helped many understand what has gone on for years.

If Mike Canning can't convince me, I'm sure the Troll won't either.



Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Runamuk,

I have more skin in the game than Hawkeye and most of the posters on this thread.

Interesting you use the word hateful when that is actually what I am battling here. I have watched seething blind hate corrupt these forums for years and have decided it's time hate shouldn't be so cheap for these people.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

So tri just curious about what skin you have in the game?
What do you have to gain or lose if SFW were to continue down the path their on?
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Tristate has no skin in the game. He is a contrarian - meaning he would argue with anybody about anything. I don't mind a good argument but it must be based on facts and actual reality. Tristate is not capable of such things. See e.g. Photo of a "real audit."

To the extent he pretends to have skin in the game, he would like to see Utah go to the Texas Model - aka commercialized hunting, high dollar tags, no public land, hunting leases, hunting clubs, deer feeders, etc. The Texas Model would be even worse than the Utah Model that we are currently experiencing.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Really Hawkeye,

I have three animals in my shop right now that are from what you consider "wealth tags". I have at least four more clients hunting Utah next year with tags you call "wealth tags". I have had clients win raffle tags at the expo.

THAT IS REAL SKIN IN THE GAME.

I love how you immediately claim I want the Texas model, which I don't, and then say it would make it worse in Utah, which it wouldn't.

Guess what my kids got to do two weekends ago??? They got to go hunting. Guess what my kids did last weekend? They went hunting again! Spring turkey hunting is going full blast here now. I LITERALLY HAVE MORE TURKEY HUNTS OFFERED TO ME THAN I CAN TAKE. Man Texas is tough.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

SO BASICALLY YOU'RE JUST A LEECH AND TEXAS IS STILL A $H!TH0LE. Thanks for reassuring what I already knew.




No estas en mexico ahora, entonces escoja tu basura
chancho sucio.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Don't feed the Troll!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

FAQ #18 ? Q18: Which organization was awarded the expo permit contract?

The independent State Purchasing committee scored all of the criteria, and the organization with the highest point total was Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife (SFW). It more thoroughly addressed the criteria in the RFP and, consequently, had the highest total score. The committee recommended the SFW proposal to the Wildlife Board for approval. RESPONSE:


As explained in response to FAQ #17, the RFPs were not scored by an ?independent State Purchasing committee.? Rather, the RFP were scored by a five-member selection committee made if up of representatives from the DWR, the Department of Natural Resources, the Governor?s Office, the Department of Technology Services, and the Division of Purchasing (assisted with the process in an advisory capacity but did not score proposals). The DWR is correct that the selection committee gave the SFW the highest score based upon the scoring criteria set forth in the RFP and recommended the SFW proposal to the Wildlife Board for approval. Read the detailed summary of the committee?s analysis and scoring: http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/2015-12-18_justification_statement.pdf.

Much has been said on these forums about the requirements and the grading criteria in the RFP. Many have claimed that the criteria favored SFW and MDF. I will simply reiterate that when I first saw the RFP, it was clear to me that that it would be difficult for RMEF to respond to many of the criteria with the same level of specificity as SFW/MDF, who already had the Expo Tag contract and had the benefit of a decade of experience working with the DWR on those very issues. I knew that RMEF?s proposal would be very strong as far as money generated for actual conservation and tourism dollars (the two purposes for creating the Expo Tags under R657-55-1). However, there were a number of additional criteria included that would be difficult to address when you are a new party seeking the contract. On those items, RMEF did its best to explain what it would do if it was awarded the contract and made it clear that it would comply with all of the DWR?s requirements and recommendations. However, if you look at the selection committee?s Justification Statement (http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/2015-12-18_justification_statement.pdf), you will notice that they repeatedly stated that RMEF?s proposal lacked detail, documentation and evidence in certain categories whereas SFW?s proposal contained documentation, specific numbers and historical information.

Section 4 dealing with the Permit Drawing and Data Security Plan is perhaps the best example. In its proposal, SFW spelled out in detail the process that it has had out in place over the last 10 years for conducting the drawing and maintaining data security (most of that information has been redacted by SFW so the public cannot see what was actually stated in the proposal). See SFW Proposal at 16-21, 68-75 - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GZDBGQVUxZ1FFb1E. That process described by SFW has been jointly developed by SFW, MDF and the DWR over the last decade. In contrast, RMEF committed to meeting all of the DWR?s requirements, noted that it was in discussions with two potential subcontractors who can provide this service and whom ?currently work with the DWR in a similar capacity,? and noted that it would have everything in place well in advance of the Expo. RMEF also stated that ?in the last year, RMEF completed more than #13 million in credit card transaction sales nationally with less than 0.05% of these sales disputed as fraud.? Thus, it had significant experience in credit card transactions and data security. See RMEF Proposal at 13-14 - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GZXpSQ3R3MS1MTnM.

However, the selection committee stated the following with regard to the RMEF proposal: ?The Offeror B response addresses the main components of this category, but omits the details necessary to effectively review the proposal. The proposal states Offeror B will comply with the standards in the RFP, but gives few details on how they will do so. Offeror B states that they will hire a contractor in the future, but the proposal gives no details on how they will run a complex drawing, maintain data security, manage data, or interface with DWR databases. The proposal contains minimal details on PCI compliance at the expo.? Justification Statement at 5/7. This section of the RFP alone resulted in a 40 point swing to SFW. This is just one example but the Justification Statement confirms repeatedly what I first thought when I saw the RFP ? that it would very difficult for any conservation group seeking the contract to respond to many of the criteria with the same level of specificity, documentation and history as the incumbent groups that already had the contract and the experience of hosting the Expo.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

If you get to call that lame financial summary, paid for by RMEF, an "independent audit" why should I care if these people want to call this "the independent state purchasing committee?

Sounds like yall are all playing the exact same game but when they do it you don't think it's "fair".
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Don't feed the Troll!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Flopgun,

Both of these garbage "debunk" threads have been nothing but food for me. It's one stupid lie or reach after another watching you and hawkeye seethe with each other.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Flopgun,
>
>Both of these garbage "debunk" threads
>have been nothing but food
>for me. It's one
>stupid lie or reach after
>another watching you and hawkeye
>seethe with each other.
>


TRISTATE,

If I have to read one more time about how these FACTS are lies, I swear %100 I willl scream. Obviously you cant read or have any comprehension at all. EVERYONE of those have included links with all the facts in them. NONE of it is made up, unless the DWR has made up their facts or rules, which we know that they are capable of it since they cant follow any rules. Grow up man. Its getting old.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Robiland,

Why would YOU scream about someone else's lies? He's a big boy he knows what he does. Grow up son. I think you're going to be just fine.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

You are so full of hate and lies.

LiesState is your new name. Keep at it son, youll grow up one day.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Guys-

We all know that Tristate is a troll and when he is not trolling his views are so far out in right field that he has left the ball park. Therefore, I take Tristate's baseless jabs as a ringing endorsement that I am right on track. If I ever woke up and found myself in agreement with Tristate on any substantive hunting related issue, I would really be concerned.

As my father used to tell me, "consider the source of the comment."

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

No more baseless than the past two threads you have started. You've made up more garbage than China.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

And you are a taxidermist.......
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

FAQ #19 ? Q19: What was the Wildlife Board?s role in awarding the expo permit contract?
The Utah Wildlife Board?s role was limited by state procurement code. These restrictions were explained to board members and the public at multiple Wildlife Board meetings in late 2015. In this case, the Board?s only options were to either approve the proposal scored highest by the independent evaluation committee or to cancel the RFP. This ensured the contract was awarded based on the merits of the proposals and not on other factors.

After reviewing the two proposals and the State Purchasing committee's justification statement, the Wildlife Board chose to accept the committee?s recommendation. The contract was then awarded according to state procurement code. Watch the Wildlife Board meeting held Dec. 18, 2015.

RESPONSE:


While the DWR is correct that the Wildlife Board played a limited role when it came down to actually awarding the Expo Tag, it plays a major role in enacting/modifying the Expo Tag rule and ensuring that the DWR follows those rules. In prior posts, I have outlined in detail the fact that the DWR?s own Administrative Rule describes the process that the DWR must follow in awarding the five-year Expo Tag contracts. See R657-55-4 - http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r657/r657-055.htm#T4. That rule/process has been in place in March 2005 and the DWR/Wildlife Board amended that rule as recently as January 2015. As we all know, however, the DWR did not follow that process in awarding the most recent Expo Tag contract. Instead, the DWR chose to move to a formal RFP process administered by the Division of Purchasing even though that formal RFP process conflicts with its own rule. The Wildlife Board, as the governing board of the DWR, could have and should have required the DWR to either follow the process set forth in its Administrative Rule or to amend the process set forth in its rule to allow them to move to a formal RFP. That did not happen.

Once the DWR moved to the formal RFP process, the DWR is correct that the scoring of the proposals was performed by the five-person selection committee and the Wildlife Board?s involvement was simply to determine whether to accept the recommendation from the selection committee. The Wildlife Board was required to accept the highest scoring proposal unless that proposal was otherwise disqualified. See http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/2015-12-18_justification_statement.pdf. The DWR explained these limitations during the December 2, 2015 Wildlife Board Meeting. However, if you go back and watch the video from that meeting, you will see that the attorney for the DWR actually had to explain the entire formal RFP process to the Wildlife Board. See
? (starting at 3:54 to 4:06 - the DWR?s video recording deleted the first few minutes of the presentation). Why was this necessary? Because the DWR was not following the process set forth in the DWR?s Administrative Rule, the attorney for the DWR had to explain to the Wildlife Board how the formal RFP process worked and what the Board?s role would be in the process.

The most interesting part of the presentation was when the DWR?s lawyer explained to the Wildlife Board what would constitute a conflict of interest. He stated that mere membership in one of the conservation groups alone probably would not be a conflict so long as you do not socialize with the groups and have not been an officer, director or employee of the groups. That statement prompted a follow up question from Byron Bateman who asked ?are you talking about past officers and directors or current?? At that point, the lawyer explained that a current officer or director would certainly have a conflict but there is also a broad prohibition of participating in the process if you participation would create ?the appearance of impropriety.? The DWR?s lawyer agreed to work with each Board Member individually to answer questions regarding potential conflicts. Finally, Steve Dalton asked how many Board Members need to be able to vote in order to make a decision. The DWR?s lawyer explained that they needed 4 of the 7 Board Members in order to have a quorum. See
? (starting at 4:06 to 4:09). Thus, the DWR and the Wildlife Board were concerned about the conflict issue well in advance of the December 18, 2015 Wildlife Board Meeting. And given the makeup of the Wildlife Board, it was unclear if they would have a quorum at the upcoming meeting.

Finally, the DWR is correct that the Expo Tag Contract was awarded to SFW at the December 18, 2015 Board Meeting. Three of the seven Board Members recused themselves. The four members of the Wildlife Board who did not recuse themselves voted to accept the recommendation of the selection committee. Watch the Wildlife Board meeting held Dec. 18, 2015.

In summary, description of the Wildlife Board?s role in the decision to award the Expo Tag Contract to SFW is generally correct. However, the DWR ignores the fact that the Wildlife Board, as the governing board of the DWR, could have and should have required the DWR to either follow the process set forth in its Administrative Rule or to amend the process set forth in its rule to allow them to move to a formal RFP. I assume that the Board relied upon the advice of the DWR?s lawyer to press forward with the formal RFP process even though it was inconsistent with their own rule.

I do not personally blame the Wildlife Board for the decision to award the Expo Tag Contract to SFW. Nor do I blame the selection committee. I believe that both groups were doing their jobs and following the process and criteria laid out in the formal RFP. That criteria and the scoring of the criteria was provided by the DWR. As I have stated many times, I personally believe that the formal RFP was drafted in a way that favored certainty and past performance from the incumbents over a proposal from a new bidder that may result in even greater returns for sportsmen, wildlife and the state?s economy. Under this system, it will be difficult, if not impossible, for outside group to compete with SFW and MDF for future Expo Tag contracts. If the DWR is content with the status quo and what SFW and MDF have delivered with regard to past Expos then so be it. But let's not pretend that RMEF was not capable of hosting a similar or perhaps even bigger event, that RMEF did not meet the DWR?s requirements, or that RMEF does not understand data security. Just simply state that we are more comfortable doing business with our current partners.

Tomorrow I will address the alleged conflicts of specific Wildlife Board Member in my response to FAQ #20.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-16 AT 10:36AM (MST)[p]Since the RFP appears so biased in favor of the incumbents, I would like to know who were the individuals who drafted it and their affiliations that qualified them to be involved at that level. Jason, do you have that info or could we GRAMA it?
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

" But let's not pretend that RMEF was not capable of hosting a similar or perhaps even bigger event, that RMEF did not meet the DWR?s requirements, or that RMEF does not understand data security. Just simply state that we are more comfortable doing business with our current partners."

Nobody is saying RMEF did not meet the DWR requirements. The DWR is just saying it looked to them as if SFW could do it better. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM HAVING THAT OPINION. Just like you have an opinion they can have theirs. Difference is theirs matters in this case.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>" But let's not pretend that
>RMEF was not capable of
>hosting a similar or perhaps
>even bigger event, that RMEF
>did not meet the DWR?s
>requirements, or that RMEF does
>not understand data security. Just
>simply state that we are
>more comfortable doing business with
>our current partners."
>
>Nobody is saying RMEF did not
>meet the DWR requirements.
>The DWR is just saying
>it looked to them as
>if SFW could do it
>better. THERE IS NOTHING
>WRONG WITH THEM HAVING THAT
>OPINION. Just like you
>have an opinion they can
>have theirs. Difference is
>theirs matters in this case.
>


In their position, they can NOT have opinions or be biased.

There is no hope for you. Good luck Richard.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Can you show me the law that says members of the process can not have an opinion? In fact isn't the scoring system they used completely based on opinion? Is this the same law that states the state biologist can't have an opinion about you killing immature deer?

What grown man would worry about "hope for you" anyway?
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Don't feed the Troll!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I know, I am done with Richard. He has no hope of understanding Common "CENTS". INfact, %0 chance of understanding sense common.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

And that's what happens when you are beat and your position is indefensible. You take your bat and go home. It gets easier boys. Each morning you wake up it will hurt a little less.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Lee-

The RFP was drafted jointly by the DWR and the Division of Purchasing. The DWR provided the scoring criteria for the RFP and determined how to weigh the criteria. The Division of Purchasing helped with the procedural issues, formatting and administering the RFP.

In a July 2015 email between Kenny Johnson at the DWR and Ann Schliep at the Division of Purchasing, Ms. Schliep asked Mr. Johnson if his "committee" at the DWR had "been able to review it and determine the wight of the criteria." Mr. Johnson responded by stating "[w]e have met and have assigned weights to the scoring criteria."

Therefore, it looks like Kenny Johnson took the lead on the part of the DWR in preparing the RFP but he had a "committee" that was providing input on key issues such as the scoring criteria and how to weigh those criteria. Although the individual members of the committee are not identified, I have a pretty good idea who was involved based upon the emails provided by the Division of Purchasing and folks' public involvement on this issue.

As a side note, I am still waiting for the DWR to respond to my GRAMA request. I hope to have documents by the end of the week.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Is that what your wife tells you?

Thanks Richard!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-16 AT 02:24PM (MST)[p]I like how two posts ago you proclaim you are done and you just keep dancing on a string. You have an issue with truth also it seems.

You'll feel better in the morning little fella. ;D
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-16
>AT 02:24?PM (MST)

>
>I like how two posts ago
>you proclaim you are done
>and you just keep dancing
>on a string. You
>have an issue with truth
>also it seems.
>
>You'll feel better in the morning
>little fella. ;D


Thanks Richard !
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

FAQ #20 ? Q20: Did Utah Wildlife Board members have conflicts of interest when they assessed the expo permit contract decision?
Although the Wildlife Board?s role was minimal in this process, three board members declared a conflict of interest and recused themselves. Each of the remaining board members signed a conflict of interest form before evaluating the RFP materials at the December 2015 Wildlife Board meeting, and the DWR has no reason to suspect that their decisions were biased in any way. Per the Division of Purchasing and legal counsel, belonging to an organization ? or conducting unpaid volunteer work ? does not automatically result in a conflict of interest.

RESPONSE:


While the DWR?s statement in FAQ #20 is generally correct, I believe that we should all take a closer look at the conflict of interest question. The current makeup of the Wildlife Board demonstrates the level of influence that SFW has over wildlife management in this state. The Wildlife Board consists of 7 individuals appointed by the governor and they are essentially the governing body for the DWR. See http://wildlife.utah.gov/board-members.html. As explained in response to FAQ #18 and #19, a selection committee recommended that the next Expo Tag contract be signed with SFW but that recommendation had to be voted on and approved by the Wildlife Board. You would think that would be a simple administrative matter. However, during the December 18, 2015 Wildlife Board Meeting, 3 of the 7 Wildlife Board Members recused themselves due to conflicts of interest relating to SFW. See
. The members who recused include the following:

1. John Bair ? Chairman of the Wildlife Board and former President and Chairman of SFW (http://www.zoominfo.com/p/John-Bair/332099644)
2. Byron Bateman ? Wildlife Board Member and former President of SFW (http://sfw.net/2015/07/06/sfw-board...governor-gary-herbert-to-utah-wildlife-board/)
3. Steve Dalton ? Reportedly a lifetime member of SFW.

That left the following 4 Wildlife Board Members to participate in the vote:

1. Kirk Woodward
2. Calvin Crandall
3. Mike King
4. Donnie Hunter

There has been much discussion as to whether Donnie Hunter should have also recused himself due to his involvement with SFW. According to SFW?s own materials, Mr. Hunter is or has been a member of ?SFW?s Mission Fulfillment Board? (http://www.huntexpo.com/pdfs/Expo_Auction_Catalog_Final.pdf) and he is also listed repeatedly as an ?Iron County Chapter volunteer and long-time SFW supporter? (http://sfw.net/2014/05/20/sfw-plants-bitterbrush-on-parowan-front/). In an effort to explain away Mr. Hunter?s participation in the December 18th decision, the DWR states that ?Per the Division of Purchasing and legal counsel, belonging to an organization ? or conducting unpaid volunteer work ? does not automatically result in a conflict of interest.? While it may be true that mere membership in an organization does not always result in a conflict. That is not the end of the analysis. Under Utah law, a government employee should recuse himself ?if they have any type of personal relationship, favoritism, or bias that would appear to a reasonable person to influence their independence in performing their assigned duties and responsibilities.? (R33-24-106). You can be the judge of whether Mr. Hunter should have recused himself due to his substantial involvement with SFW. The question is not whether Mr. Hunter believed that he could be fair and unbiased but whether his participation in the decision would undermine the confidence of the public. One thing is for sure, if Mr. Hunter would have recused himself, the Wildlife Board could not have made a decision because they would not have had a quorum (only 3 of 7 Board Members). That would have created a real problem for the DWR.

As I have explained before, don't get too caught up in the conflict issue as it relates to the vote that took place during the December 18th meeting because the reality is that the Wildlife Board was considering a narrow issue ? whether to accept the recommendation from the selection committee. The decision to go with SFW was made long before the December 18th Wildlife Board Meeting. Rather, I point to that conflict issue to highlight a much larger problem. How did we end up with majority of the Wildlife Board Members having strong relationships and ties to a single conservation group (including two former Presidents of SFW)? What does that say about SFW?s influence on the DWR, the legislature and the governor? How does that influence impact the decisions made by the Wildlife Board? How does that influence impact decisions made by the DWR? How does that impact the confidence of the general public in the Wildlife Board to deal fairly with issues involving SFW?

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Its like salt on food. Everybody has their idea of what's too much. At some point you have to swallow. Doesn't mean everyone will like it, but it also doesn't mean anything is corrupt or "unfair". The fact that several members recused themselves shows that there is at least a standard of professionalism maintained on the board.

You are back to splitting hairs.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

you don't have to swallow it you can always spit it out
I believe that's what we are trying to do spit out some of the salt
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I always suspected Tri would swallow salty things forced from SFW. Now it's confirmed.

Sorry Tri but I couldn't resist.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>I always suspected Tri would swallow
> salty things forced from
>SFW. Now it's confirmed.
>
>
>Sorry Tri but I couldn't resist.
>


Do you know why they call him Richard?
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

SO how do you spit Buttshot? How do you solve this one little bitty problem that to many isn't even a problem? Can the wildlife board even vote with %60 of the board recusing itself? Many boards can't take a vote then. So what do you do?

This brings up something. If yall don't want to look like childish whiners ACTUALLY SHOW HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-16 AT 09:50AM (MST)[p]>Its like salt on food.
>Everybody has their idea of
>what's too much. At
>some point you have to
>swallow. Doesn't mean everyone
>will like it, but it
>also doesn't mean anything is
>corrupt or "unfair". The
>fact that several members recused
>themselves shows that there is
>at least a standard of
>professionalism maintained on the board.
>
>
>You are back to splitting hairs.
>

No, it showed that the ones that recused themselves knew that the ##### would hit the fan legally if they voted! There was absolutely no professionalism involved, as they had all been advised beforehand by the attorney that they weren't eligible to vote!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

This is my view on the matter. If you have a conflict, recuse yourself. If you don't have a quorum due to multiple members with conflicts, then find another way to move forward. You don't bend the rules in order to accomplish your own desires. The ends do not justify the means.

As I explained in my prior post, the conflict issue really highlights the level of influence that SFW has with the Wildlife Board, the DWR, and the Governor's Office. As Tristate would say, that is an awful lot of salt!

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Wait a minute. You actually are mad that a Conservation organization has influence on the state government and DWR???????? I don't know of a single conservation org. that doesn't want government influence. Maybe you would like the NRA to not have any government influence. Does this mean the Wildlife board would be more "fair" if four or five PETA members sat on it????? Maybe just being a hunter is a conflict of interest. After all these are hunting tags we are talking about. You're right. No more hunters on the board. No more conservationists.


Can you honestly say you don't want a conservation org to have any government relationships and influence???? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Troll theres a California fourm that would love to have you. Government influences and all!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Its like salt on food.
>Everybody has their idea of
>what's too much. At
>some point you have to
>swallow. Doesn't mean everyone
>will like it, but it
>also doesn't mean anything is
>corrupt or "unfair". The
>fact that several members recused
>themselves shows that there is
>at least a standard of
>professionalism maintained on the board.
>
>
>You are back to splitting hairs.
>

Looks like a great hamburger recipe for the future SFW restaurant you'd be so proud of, 57% salt, 43% hamburger/buns/lettuce/mayo/ketchup/tomato/onion. And for desert, hair splits! Sounds tasty!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

FAQ #21 ? Q21: Why wasn?t any public input allowed concerning the expo permit contract bid?
As is the case in any sealed-bid process, state procurement code does not allow public input into proposal selection because those proposals are not open for public review during the evaluation process. Public perception of a preferred organization?s proposal should not have any influence on the evaluation committee ? the contract should go to the most qualified applicant based on the review of the disclosed evaluation criteria.

RESPONSE:


The DWR is correct that the provisions of the Utah state procurement code dealing with RFPs do not allow public input into the proposal selection process. See http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title63G/Chapter6A/63G-6a-P7.html?v=C63G-6a-P7_1800010118000101 However, the DWR continues to overlook the fact that the public was also denied any opportunity to provide input regarding the decision to move from the informal RFP process set forth in R657-55-4 to the new formal RFP process utilized by the DWR in 2015.

As explained before, one of the fundamental purposes of the rule making/rule amendment process is it allows an opportunity for public input. One simple example of this is the changes to the Expo Tag program that the DWR made in late 2014/early 2015. The DWR implemented these changes by preparing a redline version of their Administrative Rule showing the proposed changes and then presenting those changes at the December 2014 RAC Meetings and the January 2015 Wildlife Board Meeting. See DWR Packet for Meetings - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GRzVGSTdqOV9NZ2c. If you look at the packet distributed by the DWR, it included the following documents: (1) an agenda showing ?Convention Permit Rule Amendments? as one of the three items to be covered at the upcoming meetings; (2) a letter from Kenny Johnson at the DWR to the Wildlife Board summarizing the ?three changes to this rule?; and (3) a redline version of the rule showing exactly which provisions in R657-55 were being modified. The three proposed rule amendments outlined in the DWR?s packet were then presented at the RAC and Wildlife Board Meetings, and the public had an opportunity to ask questions and comment on the proposed changes before the Wildlife Board voted on them and they became law.

That is exactly how significant changes to the Expo Tag program are supposed to be made. Unfortunately, the DWR chose not to clearly disclose to the public the most significant change being made to the Expo Tag program ? the move to the formal RFP process. Why not? I do not know. I assume that it was simply a mistake and oversight on their part. Although it makes no sense that they would prepare documents showing the ?three changes to the rule? and a redlined version of the rule and not bother to even address the most significant change. This is particularly true given that the DWR actually amended Section 4 of R657-55, which is the Section that spells out the informal RFP process that was utilized by the DWR to award the two prior Expo Tag Contracts. See https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GRzVGSTdqOV9NZ2c. It is shocking that the DWR would amend those provisions without thinking to themselves that perhaps they should spell out the proposed move to the formal RFP process, especially since that process is not consistent with the process set forth in R657-55-4. Plus, the DWR sat through five RAC Meetings around the state and the Wildlife Board Meeting without it dawning on them that they should include that change in their proposed rule amendments. And then to top it all, after RMEF submitted its initial application on September 1, 2015, and the DWR formally notified RMEF that it was moving forward with a formal RFP, I personally notified the DWR that to do so would be a violation of the process set forth in their own Administrative Rule, which they just amended a few months earlier. See http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r657/r657-055.htm#T4. I encouraged the DWR that if they were going to proceed with the formal RFP process then they should first go back and modify their Administrative Rule to allow them to do so. However, the DWR elected to press forward with the formal RFP process even though it was in conflict with R657-55-4. As a result of the DWR?s actions, the public was denied an opportunity to ask questions and comment on that significant change.

Going back to the ?Dual Purpose of Administrative Rules? as spelled out on the website of the Utah Department of Administrative Services:

?An administrative rule serves at least two purposes. First, a properly enacted administrative rule has the binding effect of law. Therefore, a rule affects our lives as much as a statute passed by the legislature, restricting individuals AND the agency that issues it.

Second, an administrative rule is a messenger of sorts. It informs citizens of actions a state government agency will take or how a state agency will conduct its business. It provides citizens the opportunity to respond -- whether by providing public comment, or becoming involved in some other way.?

See http://www.rules.utah.gov/abtrules.htm. As a result of the DWR?s failure to clearly disclose the decision to move to the formal RFP process through the Division of Purchasing, the public was denied an opportunity to ask questions, provide public comment, send emails or become involved in some other way. Whether intentionally or inadvertently, the DWR circumvented that process. Now, at some point the DWR will have to go back and amend R657-55-4 to allow it to do what it had already done. Sportsmen can certainly attend those meetings to express their comments and concerns but the reality is that the change was already made and therefore the public input on that issue will be pointless.

When the DWR and others ask why more sportsmen do not attend RAC and Wildlife Board Meetings and get more involved in the public process, the public often states that they feel like their participation it is a waste of time and their comments fall on deaf ears. This is just one example where the DWR and the Wildlife Board did not appear to be interested in receiving public input on an important change.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

SO their answer to FAQ 21 is good but you decided to beat the dead horse from one of your other problems and call it "debunking".
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-25-16 AT 09:48AM (MST)[p]Tri-

I know you probably cannot remember what was posted 5 minutes ago much less several days ago. But one of the purposes of this thread is to tell the other side of the story and educate people as to what has occurred. The DWR has framed their 21 FAQs in a manner that self-serving and presents only those points that support the DWR and what they have done. Therefore, when the question presented is "why wasn?t any public input allowed concerning the expo permit contract bid?," the DWR's response that the state procurement code does not provide for public input during the selection process is generally correct. However, the DWR side-stepped a major issue, which is the public was denied an opportnity to provide public input concerning the decision to move to the formal contract bid process (RFP). The lack of public input on the decision to move to the formal RFP, however, was not dictated by state procurement code but rather by the manner in which the DWR implemented the change. I am sure that all went in one ear and out the other but I thought my response would be helpful for others who are actually interested in this issue.

Now go mount another javelina and stay out of the adult conversations.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Actually Hawkeye, THAT'S THE PROBLEM. I remember what you posted five days ago. And five days before that. And five days before that, and on, and on, and on. That's the exact definition of BEATING A DEAD HORSE. So when you don't have something to "debunk", you just pick one of your horses and start beating it again.

THIS ISN'T AN ADULT CONVERSATION. Whining for years and beating a dead horse isn't an "adult conversation". In fact it doesn't even meet the requirements of any "conversation". Its just you spouting opinions while some of the other kids on the playground stroke your ego and call other people names.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawkeye,

I used to side with you quite a bit. Have you ever seen a cart pushing a horse. That's where you are at now. It appears everyone is informed - - Now it appears to be vendetta time. As I have said before. See how much are in salaries (including contract pay for friends and family which includes fringes) and how much is coming in. What is the percent? If the payroll is to high it becomes a scam.

If you don't like it in 5 or 10 years from now scream to high heaven before the fact not after.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Tri, your complaining IS beating a dead horse. Please go troll on another thread.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Hawkeye,
>
>I used to side with you
>quite a bit. Have
>you ever seen a cart
>pushing a horse. That's
>where you are at now.
> It appears everyone is
>informed - - Now it
>appears to be vendetta time.
> As I have said
>before. See how much
>are in salaries (including contract
>pay for friends and family
>which includes fringes) and how
>much is coming in. What
>is the percent? If the
>payroll is to high it
>becomes a scam.
>
>If you don't like it in
>5 or 10 years from
>now scream to high heaven
>before the fact not after.
>
>


As Truman said: "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!"
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Cannonball-

I am going to finish the thread I started. I need to respond to 5 more FAQ's. Sorry, but many of us are not going to sit around for another decade until the DWR says it is now accepting public input on the issue. Feel free to ignore the thread if you are not interested.

Thanks for the comments.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Heartshot,

Dead horses don't whine this much and they don't constantly hurl insults and try and convince you not to fight them.

However it is neat to see you run to yo' massa's defense as if he weren't a dead horse but can't speak for himself.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Hawkeye,
>
>I used to side with you
>quite a bit. Have
>you ever seen a cart
>pushing a horse. That's
>where you are at now.
> It appears everyone is
>informed - - Now it
>appears to be vendetta time.
> As I have said
>before. See how much
>are in salaries (including contract
>pay for friends and family
>which includes fringes) and how
>much is coming in. What
>is the percent? If the
>payroll is to high it
>becomes a scam.
>
>If you don't like it in
>5 or 10 years from
>now scream to high heaven
>before the fact not after.
>
>


Cannonball, if you had read any of the 1st ones, you would know that there are 26 that he is going through. Its not a dead horse, in fact, it alive and well. I wish more people would read and see both sides of the story, not just the "lets sweep this under the rug with this blanket statement and hope everyone forgets."

Keep it in front for everyone to see and read. But, however, there are many who lack reading comprehension like richard, and forget its not every 5 days, but its every day until all 26 are covered.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hey Robiland, great news. Your drew a deer tag in a previously unhunted unit. Have fun.

qywpxi.jpg
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Hey Robiland, great news. Your
>drew a deer tag in
>a previously unhunted unit.
>Have fun.
>
>
qywpxi.jpg



UMMMM, ok Richard, thanks? I am not sure how to respond to that, but thanks I guess???

Richard at his best again.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I bet you get an ancient old deer too.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

It's unfortunate that much of Hawkeye's answers seem to be repeats, but since the DWR chose to address the "Frequently Asked Questions" with 26 separate question/answer responses, then I submit that we ought to take those responses as seriously as they do and look at every question/answer for discrepancies and possible ways to improve the system so that the Expo Permit Program is administered according to its stated intent and according to law. That doesn't appear to many of us to be happening now.

Also, may I remind you again, even when Hawkeye ends this thread, the issue hasn't gone away. This is only one avenue to address it and there are people working on some other avenues which likely will take MUCH longer to come to fruition. Fortunately, with those, we won't have to deal with Tristate's "logic" and rants.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

"likely will take MUCH longer to come to fruition"

YOU MEAN LONGER THAN TEN YEARS???????
The FBI won't even look for a missing white girl that long and yall are going to keep this childish war going for longer than ten more years????


Yall laugh at me all you want but that is REAL hate. Not just some made up word but real seething hate. That's special.

Does the TV station think the issue has gone away? Haven't seen or heard much out of them lately.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Just want to say thanks to Hawkeye and ALL!the other folks on here for their time and efforts in bringing all of this info to the surface.

No doubt it's helping other states get and stay informed and helping to provide the necessary tools to keep this disease from spreading.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Just want to say thanks to
>Hawkeye and ALL!the other folks
>on here for their time
>and efforts in bringing all
>of this info to the
>surface.
>
>No doubt it's helping other states
>get and stay informed and
>helping to provide the necessary
>tools to keep this disease
>from spreading.


Yep! Thanks even to the Troll since he's doing a good job helping to keep these threads in the forefront so that people all over the country reading them are made aware of what's going on in Utah and can stop SFW from spreading to their state!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Yeah.... There ain't gonna be another ten year wait.

This ain't gonna just fade away, in fact I predict that this deal is just starting.




"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-16 AT 11:32AM (MST)[p]> "likely will take MUCH longer
>to come to fruition"
>
>YOU MEAN LONGER THAN TEN YEARS???????
>
>The FBI won't even look for
>a missing white girl that
>long and yall are going
>to keep this childish war
>going for longer than ten
>more years????
>
>
>Yall laugh at me all you
>want but that is REAL
>hate. Not just some
>made up word but real
>seething hate. That's special.
>
>
>Does the TV station think the
>issue has gone away?
>Haven't seen or heard much
>out of them lately.

Laughing at you? Hardly! I pity you! You're getting so desperate trying to shut us up that you're not only continuing to use inflammatory language, you're now believing your own assumptions and basing your arguments on them. I never wrote anything about this taking "TEN YEARS". That's your assumption! All I wrote is that it would take MUCH longer than Hawkeye's 26 posts which means 26 days. So even if it took only 2 or 3 months to get this issue resolved, that's already MUCH longer than 26 days.

Could it take 10 years or longer? That would be up to the DWR and/or the WHCE Partnership, but your FBI analogy based on that assumption doesn't hold water to reality. The FBI may quit looking for a missing white girl after a shorter time, but that's because they are a Government agency that has no personal connection or commitment to continue looking. However, you can bet the girl's family and friends won't stop their "childish war" for as long as they are alive and able to do so, because any situation where a white girl (or any person) has gone missing is wrong no matter when it happened. And likewise, the WHCE Partnership withholding and not accounting for 70% (or 100%) of the Expo Permit application fees for their own use has been contrary to the purpose of the program for the last 10 years and will still be contrary to the purpose of the program 10 years from now. The passage of time doesn't automatically change a wrong into a right. Only a "childish war" can do that.

But ultimately, your assumption that this is all about some special "hate" is the most blatant assumption. In fact it's much more about love, ie; the love of the outdoors and the sportsman's lifestyle, the love of being with family and friends, the love of the chase, the love of the animals, and the love of living in a country where it's realistically possible for those who chose to go hunting and fishing can do so without any unsurmountable restrictions. And that includes the love of giving ALL sportsmen that opportunity, even the 79% who don't belong to any conservation organization and the 90+% who don't attend RAC or Wildlife Board meetings and those that are not "hardcore" hunters and those who choose not to hunt on Sundays or don't have hunting and fishing as high on their list of priorities as some think they should have in order be worthy enough to be heard. Hardcore hunters and fishermen aren't the only ones who should have a voice and you're making a big mistake if you think otherwise.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Elk,

You missed the point. Yall been beating this dead horse for a decade and you have gotten NOWHERE. Ten years later and all you have is some lame hit-piece news story that that the TV news doesn't care about anymore and a youtube Hitler parody.

You missed my point with the dead white girl analogy. My point was this isn't a dead white girl. OR EVEN YOUR DEAD WHITE GIRL. Or even YOUR money.

Then you go off on your "love" rant. You sound like one of those crazy jihadists cutting off heads in the name of piece and love. Yeah brother I'm feeling the love right now. "love" is exactly what I think about when I read yall's posts on here.

This is about selfishness plain and simple and the hate that developed when someone changed the distribution model of something you thought you were entitled to.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Given that there are only five FAQs left to respond to, I decided to take Easter weekend off to spend time with my family. I will finish responding to this DWR?s FAQs this Friday.

FAQ #22 ? Q22: Why was SFW awarded the expo permit contract when RMEF offered to give a higher percentage of revenue back to Utah for conservation?
The RMEF proposal scored very highly on its commitment to return revenue to the DWR for wildlife conservation in Utah. Its score in that category was much higher than SFW?s score. However, the State Purchasing committee was not evaluating the proposals on just that category. Committee members had to examine all of the details submitted for each of the evaluation categories. SFW?s proposal contained much more detail in the business plan and data-security categories. Only the SFW proposal provided sufficient detail in explaining how the organization planned to secure customers? identities and credit card information.

RESPONSE:


The DWR was correct in stating that RMEF?s proposal outscored the SFW proposal on its commitment to return revenue to the DWR for wildlife conservation in Utah. In fact, RMEF?s proposal outscored SFW?s proposal 142.5 to 97.5 in that particular category. However, RMEF?s proposal was significantly outscored in the other categories set forth in the RFP and lost overall with a score of 387.5 to 435. See http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/2015-12-18_justification_statement.pdf. As I have explained in prior posts, the formal RFP issued by the DWR in 2015 contained criteria that valued certainty and past performance from the incumbents over a proposal from a new bidder that may result in even greater returns for sportsmen, wildlife and the state?s economy. The DWR is the party that determined those criteria and their respective scoring weights.

My only comment on this point is that we need to remember the two purposes for which the Expo Tags were created. As set forth in R657-55-1, the Expo Tags were created ?for purposes of generating revenue to fund wildlife conservation activities in Utah and attracting and supporting a regional or national wildlife exposition in Utah.? See http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r657/r657-055.htm. Ask yourself how the DWR?s formal RFP and the criteria set forth therein compare to the actual purposes for creating the Expo Tags. Then ask yourself how the RMEF proposal would have compared to the SFW proposal if they were being scored based upon the actual purposes for the Expo Tags: (1) generating revenues for actual conservation activities/projects; and (2) bringing a national convention to Utah and generating tourism dollars. Feel free to compare the two proposals and reach your own conclusions. See https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GZXpSQ3R3MS1MTnM and https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GZDBGQVUxZ1FFb1E.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-16 AT 06:51AM (MST)[p]It is illogical and IRRESPONSIBLE to believe that the DWR or anyone for that matter should only consider those two factors when weighing the proposals. What if someone proposed stocking the convention with hookers and blow? We shouldn't consider that to effect their bid since it has nothing to do with the two original goals set by the state????

I hope you had a great Easter.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Tri-

I did have a great Easter with my family and I hope you did too.

I never said the the DWR should only consider those two factors. My point is that there are two stated, statutory purposes for creating the Expo Tags and those purposes have remained the same for the last decade. However, the formal RFP issued by the DWR was structured in a such a way that it allowed a proposal that superior on those statutory points to lose by a substantial margin to a proposal that was superior on the technical and procedural points. I submit that the DWR elevated form over substance in drafting the formal RFP.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I tried to stay away, I really did, but today I made the mistake of reading these last few comments. It reminds me of an old story I heard about a certain profession in a large company who used to spend more time making statement and creating work than find what the real problem was, so here goes.

There was a man in a hot air balloon over a field and he saw two men on he ground. He said, "I'm lost could you tell me where I'm at?" They said, "Yes, you are over this field in a hot air balloon". He said, "Are you any chance Tri. and Hawkeye?" They said, "Yes, how did you know?" This ol' guy said, "Because that was completely accurate and totally worthless." :)
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Actually I think it only lost substantially on one point.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

The majority of us appreciate the hard work Hawkeye has put into this EXPO tag analysis and the debunking of the DWR's 26 points. All the nonsense from the peanut gallery aside, just reading the 26 point analysis (22 so far) makes for a damning indictment of the entire RFP process.

What becomes of this analysis in another point entirely, but the analysis is a necessary step and a written record of the department's malfeasance is the first step in the process.

Thanks, Hawkeye, for all the hard work and not getting distracted by the trolls.

Bill
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Llamapacker,

Could you specifically elaborate on what Hawkeye has proclaimed to be "malfeasance"? Can you please tell us specifically who the victims of the "malfeasance" were?

Much Thanks
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

See guys this is what is going on.

Hawkeye sees something he doesn't like. OK everybody has things they don't like. Not necessarily illegal, not necessarily unethical, just not how Hawkeye thinks these people should do business. JUST A DIFFERING OPINION.

But after years of public complaining and people seeing a lawyer present so called "facts" after awhile readers start believing that there is "corruption" and "malfeasance". But Hawkeye hasn't shown that at all.

Robiland asks us to show where Hawkeye has lied. I have asked to show where the malfeasance is and no one answers. Even Hawkeye doesn't answer because he knows he hasn't shown any evidence of that and knows he can't blatantly accuse people of that until he finds it. But he doesn't mind other people drawing improper conclusions off of his opinions because it serves his greater agenda.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-16 AT 05:36AM (MST)[p]>Elk,
>
>You missed the point. Yall
>been beating this dead horse
>for a decade and you
>have gotten NOWHERE. Ten
>years later and all you
>have is some lame hit-piece
>news story that that the
>TV news doesn't care about
>anymore and a youtube Hitler
>parody.
>
>You missed my point with the
>dead white girl analogy.
>My point was this isn't
>a dead white girl.
>OR EVEN YOUR DEAD WHITE
>GIRL. Or even YOUR money.
>
>
>Then you go off on your
>"love" rant. You sound
>like one of those crazy
>jihadists cutting off heads in
>the name of piece and
>love. Yeah brother I'm
>feeling the love right now.
> "love" is exactly what
>I think about when I
>read yall's posts on here.
>
>
>This is about selfishness plain and
>simple and the hate that
>developed when someone changed the
>distribution model of something you
>thought you were entitled to.
>

Well, at least I know where I, and others who oppose your opinion, stand with you! And where this issue stands in your mind. You like the results of this decision to award the Expo Permit contract to SFW/MDF regardless of how it came about and no amount of logic or exchange of ideas will convince you otherwise. All you do is double down on your insults and rhetoric and anyone who disagrees with that is labeled a "hater" (And now a jihadist). Have you not noticed that you are the only one using the 'h' word to describe your opponents? You're not really interested in solving problems. You're only interested in winning an argument any way you can.

I think you've revealed enough about yourself and your motives that there's no need to continue debating with you.
I, for one, have heard enough!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Wait a minute slick. Yall posted a video comparing SFW to Nazis and you didn't say one peep, SO IT'S A LITTLE LATE FOR YOU TO GET ON A MORAL HIGH HORSE. Now I mention jihadists and you are disgusted????????? Your self-righteousness sure has a short memory.

Then you accuse me of making this about SFW/MDF getting the contract. I have news for you slick. I DON'T CARE. I would have been just as happy with RMEF getting the contract. BUT I AIN'T GOING TO SIT AND WHINE AND LIE FOR YEARS BECUASE THEY DIDN'T.

Apparently you haven't learned a single thing about your motives because you are too distracted being butt hurt.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

This is where the scoring was completely wrong. If RMEF proposed to give 100% of the permit application fees, plus 50% of net revenue from the convention back to the state and SFW proposed to give 30% of the permit application fees, and zero revenue from the convention. How can this not be scored 100% of possible points 150 to RMEF to 30% of the possible points 45 (.3 X 150 = 45)to SFW.

Had they scored this one area, the way it should have been scored, the whole RFP would have been tipped in RMEF's favor.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-16 AT 07:23AM (MST)[p]Tristate-

Nobody answers you because it is a waste of time. I have had many discussions with many posters who have contrary views on this issue. We often agree to disagree. The difference is they are not trolling and are capable of logical discussion.

For everyone else on this site that is capable of logical reasoning, the "corruption" and "malfeasance" is obvious. The DWR and the conservation groups took 200 premium tags out of the public draw in order to "generate revenues for wildlife conservation activities." R657-55-1. The public expressed substantial concern about how that resulting revenues would be used. At the Wildlife Board Meeting where these tags were created, Don Peay, who was representing SFW, told the public that ?it is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? At that same meeting, the Wildlife Board specifically directed the DWR to include an annual audit requirement similar to what exists with the Conservation Permits in the Expo Tag contract that the DWR was negotiating with the groups. That never occurred.

Over the last 10 years, the groups have generated nearly $10 million off of our public Expo Tags. However, when the public has asked how much of the money "went on the ground" for actual cosnervation projects we have been stonewalled by the groups and the DWR. The public has a right to demand accountability and transparency and the longer the DWR and the groups resist the worse this looks for them.

Tristate likely understands all of this but he will continue talking in circles and ignoring the obvious.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

FAQ #23 ? Q23: What about claims by the public that RMEF should have been awarded the expo permit contract because it has more members, has hosted a successful convention and has securely conducted numerous online transactions?

Regardless of whether those statements are true, the State Purchasing committee could only evaluate the details provided in the proposals. The SFW proposal scored well because it contained a detailed expo business and marketing plan that included data to support the claims in the proposal. It also provided a detailed data security plan to protect expo attendees? personal information and credit card data. In contrast, the RMEF proposal provided a much less detailed business plan, and its data security plan was brief and vague. The lack of detail in the data security plan was particularly troubling, as a data breach could have severe financial impacts on expo attendees and cost the state millions of dollars.

RESPONSE:


As explained in prior posts, the RFP was drafted in such a way that it favored the incumbent groups that already had the Expo Tag contract and years of experience in working with the DWR on the very issues addressed in the RFP. RMEF?s proposal was very strong as far as money generated for actual conservation and tourism dollars (the two purposes for creating the Expo Tags under R657-55-1). However, there were a number of additional criteria included that were difficult to address when you are a new party seeking the contract. On those items, RMEF did its best to explain what it would do if it was awarded the contract and made it clear that it would comply with all of the DWR?s requirements and recommendations. With regard to data security, RMEF?s proposal stated the following:

?RMEF understands the critical nature of data security. We believe personal identification and other information stored in our systems is one of our most valuable assets and understand the risk associated with any breach in our systems.

RMEF will maintain network security that conforms to the standards in RFP Attachment B, current standards set forth and maintained by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, and the standards Utah applies to its own network as outlined in the State of Utah?s Department of Technology Service Policy 5000-0002 Enterprise Information Security Policy.

Application data will be properly encrypted at rest and in transit. In the unlikely event of a data breach, RMEF will provide necessary remedies to applicants and will notify UDWR as required in the RFP Attachment B, and state and federal law. Further, RMEF agrees to execute the event and all surrounding activities in accordance with the requirements outlined in the RFP Attachment A, State of Utah Standard Terms and Conditions for Services.

RMEF uses standard computational randomization algorithms to perform random selections from data sets and will ensure that the Wildlife Exposition Permit Series drawing is executed in a fair manner. We invite any necessary oversight by UDWR and are happy to conform to your standards.

RMEF is currently certified as PCI DSS compliant by Trustwave through September of 2016 and uses Trustwave?s vulnerability and fraud protection scanning services on a regular schedule. In the last year, RMEF completed more than $13 million in credit card transaction sales nationally with less than 0.05% of these sales disputed as fraud.

RMEF?s technological systems used today are a mix of internally-developed and pre-packaged software. While we are fully capable of executing all technological aspects of the Wildlife Exposition Program internally, we are currently in negotiations with multiple firms that are highly regarded for their expertise in performing the desired services at a level that meets or exceeds the requirements defined in the RFP. These firms include contractors that currently work with the UDWR in a similar capacity. In addition, our goal is to have the least possible impact on UDWR while executing the technological portion of the event. If successful with this proposal, RMEF will immediately finalize negotiations with an appropriate contractor that has the technical expertise and capability to protect application data, and that can deliver services compatible with UDWR and the State of Utah?s systems.?

RMEF?s Proposal at 13-14 - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GZXpSQ3R3MS1MTnM.

In summary, RMEF committed to meeting all of the requirements of the DWR and the State of Utah. It specifically agreed to all of the requirements set forth in the RFP. It noted that it was in discussions with two potential subcontractors who can provide this service and whom ?currently work with the DWR in a similar capacity.? It stated that if awarded the Expo Tag Contract, it would have everything in place well in advance of the Expo. RMEF also stated that ?in the last year, RMEF completed more than $13 million in credit card transaction sales nationally with less than 0.05% of these sales disputed as fraud.? Thus, it had significant experience in credit card transactions and data security. I am not sure why the DWR would conclude that based upon those representations, ?The lack of detail in the data security plan was particularly troubling, as a data breach could have severe financial impacts on expo attendees and cost the state millions of dollars.?

In contrast, we don't know what information SFW provided in its proposal because most of that information has been redacted and withheld from the public. See SFW Proposal at 16-21, 68-75 - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GZDBGQVUxZ1FFb1E. However, SFW likely described in detail the exact process that it has had in place over the last 10 years for conducting the drawing and maintaining data security. That process described by SFW has been jointly developed and refined by SFW, MDF and the DWR over the last decade.

Now, if you look at the selection committee?s Justification Statement (http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/2015-12-18_justification_statement.pdf), you will notice, once again, that they state that RMEF?s proposal lacked detail, documentation and evidence when compared to SFW?s proposal: ?The Offeror B response addresses the main components of this category, but omits the details necessary to effectively review the proposal. The proposal states Offeror B will comply with the standards in the RFP, but gives few details on how they will do so. Offeror B states that they will hire a contractor in the future, but the proposal gives no details on how they will run a complex drawing, maintain data security, manage data, or interface with DWR databases. The proposal contains minimal details on PCI compliance at the expo.? Justification Statement at 5/7. This section of the RFP alone resulted in a 40-point swing to SFW.

In conclusion, RMEF?s proposal addressed each of the criteria set forth in the RFP. Moreover, RMEF outlined its substantial experience in hosting similar events and dealing with data security. RMEF also agreed to comply with each and every requirement set forth by the DWR and the State of Utah, and even invited additional oversight and input from those groups. What RMEF did not do (and frankly could not do) is regurgitate the exact processes that SFW, MDF and the DWR had jointly developed for the prior Expos over the last decade. If that is the type of criteria the DWR wants to rely upon in awarding the Expo Tag Contracts then so be it. But let's not pretend that RMEF ignored the DWR?s requirements, does not understand data security, or would have contributed to ?a data breach that could have severe financial impacts on expo attendees and cost the state millions of dollars.?

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Wow, that kind of interesting to see what they had planned to do but they say it lacks detail. What do they want, step by step, second by second tiem frame of what was going to happen. I love that we cant see what SFW said they were going to do. I find that kind of interesting and IRONIC in a sense. Here is what RMEF said they would do but not good enough. Here is what SFW will do ____-----____------_____------- and its good enough.

Go ahead Richard, comment away.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>>Flopgun,
>>
>>Both of these garbage "debunk" threads
>>have been nothing but food
>>for me. It's one
>>stupid lie or reach after
>>another watching you and hawkeye
>>seethe with each other.
>>
>
>
>TRISTATE,
>
>If I have to read one
>more time about how these
>FACTS are lies, I swear
>%100 I willl scream.
>Obviously you cant read or
>have any comprehension at all.
> EVERYONE of those have
>included links with all the
>facts in them. NONE
>of it is made up,
>unless the DWR has made
>up their facts or rules,
>which we know that they
>are capable of it since
>they cant follow any rules.
> Grow up man.
>Its getting old.
I scream for ice cream!!!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Absolutely NOTHING of what you cited is evidence of malfeasance or corruption. NOTHING. You may not like it. It may go against your beliefs of how things should operate but that's a long way from illegal behavior.

It's OK to disagree with how people handle their business. It's not OK to make people believe they are criminals because you don't like their business practices. THAT IS THE OBVIOUS THING THAT S BEING IGNORED.

"The public has a right to demand accountability and transparency and the longer the DWR and the groups resist the worse this looks for them."

This is the best sentence in your post. YES! you do have that right. But they have the right to tell you where to stick your "demands".
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Mommyland,

I understand you aren't happy and you miss the days when mommy could make it all better but now its time for you to man up and lead and not just sit here and whine about the stuff you don't like. Go support RMEF. Make them bigger and better than they are now. Go to another state and get some expo tags from them and show UTAH how you can do better. Dare to make it past the third grade.

I believe in what you could be.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

All I saw was "RMEF will" but no detail as to "how RMEF will do it". Looks like the panel wanted to see how and not just get promised.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Mommyland,
>
>I understand you aren't happy and
>you miss the days when
>mommy could make it all
>better but now its time
>for you to man up
>and lead and not just
>sit here and whine about
>the stuff you don't like.
> Go support RMEF.
>Make them bigger and better
>than they are now.
>Go to another state and
>get some expo tags from
>them and show UTAH how
>you can do better.
>Dare to make it past
>the third grade.
>
>I believe in what you could
>be.

richard,

I do not want to leave Utah and I REALLY DONT WANT TO GET ANOTHER STATE MESSED UP with these expo tags. And thanks for the confidence. But I really dont need any motivation, especially from you. If I truly was going to do something that dumb, I would post a picture of you on my wall at home and have an argument. It would make about as much sense as you do typing. In fact, the picture on the wall makes more sense.

Later richard.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Mommyland,

I am sure the picture is already there. Care to elaborate how the state is messed up with these expo tags? I just thought you and your daddy Hawkeye wanted to see the accounting on someone else's money but now you are saying there is a problem so large IT MESSES UP AN ENTIRE STATE! dum-dum-du-duuuuuuuum......

Very dramatic.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Mommyland,
>
>I am sure the picture is
>already there. Care to
>elaborate how the state is
>messed up with these expo
>tags? I just thought
>you and your daddy Hawkeye
>wanted to see the accounting
>on someone else's money but
>now you are saying there
>is a problem so large
>IT MESSES UP AN ENTIRE
>STATE! dum-dum-du-duuuuuuuum......
>
>Very dramatic.

Talk to your kids and see if they can help you with reading and understanding. You really are a new kind of stupid, aren't you!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Maybe one of your kids will give you the back of his hand and tell you to be a man and quit all your whining.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

FAQ #24 ? Q24: Will the proposals from the conservation organizations be available to the public?
Individuals who wish to review the proposals may obtain them from State Purchasing via the Government Records Access Management Act (GRAMA) request process.

RESPONSE:


The DWR is correct that ?individuals who wish to review the proposals may obtain them from State Purchasing via the Government Records Access Management Act (GRAMA) request process.? However, the DWR has ignored the fact that it was required by law to make copies of the proposal available to the public. Section 5.2 of the RFP specifically states that:

5.2 PUBLICIZING AWARD

UDWR shall, on the next business day after the contract between UDWR and the selected conservation organization is executed, make available to each offeror and to the public a written statement that includes:


(a) the name of the selected conservation organization and the total score
awarded by the evaluation committee to that Offeror;
(b) the total score awarded by the evaluation committee to each conservation
organization not selected; and
(c) the proposals submitted in response to the RFP.

See https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GcmpTbVJnTU5SeFU. This same requirement also exists under the state procurement statute. See Utah Code Ann 63G-6a-709.5 - http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title63G/Chapter6A/63G-6a-S709.5.html?v=C63G-6a-S709.5_2014040320140329.

The contract between the DWR and SFW was signed on February 2, 2016. See http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/expo_permit_contract.pdf. Therefore, the DWR should have issued a statement to the public that included copies of all proposals submitted in response to the RFP the next business day ? February 3, 2016. When that did not happen, I contacted the DWR and reminded them of their obligation under the statute and the RFP to formally publish notice of the award. In response, I was told by the DWR that they were not going to do that because the groups had supposedly made their proposals available on the internet and/or social media and the public could obtain copies through a GRAMA request to the Division of Purchasing. I responded to the DWR as follows:

?This is yet another instance of the DWR failing to follow simple legal requirements. The fact that the groups may have posted the proposals on social media does not relieve the DWR of its obligation to publicize the award. There is nothing in Section 5.2 of the RFP that allows DWR to avoid publishing the award just because it thinks it is unnecessary.?

Email dated 2/26/2015. The DWR responded by stating that they are ?working under the guidance of the Division of Purchasing on this issue of publicizing the award and distributing the proposals.?

So in a nutshell, the DWR has ignored is legal obligation to publish the award, which includes making copies of the proposal available to the public. Instead, the DWR is putting the burden on the public to go through time and headache of issuing a formal GRAMA request to the Division of Purchasing to obtain copies of the proposals that should have already been made public. However, I have already gone through that process and have included links to the SFW and RMEF proposals. See https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GZDBGQVUxZ1FFb1E and https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GZXpSQ3R3MS1MTnM. It should also be noted that significant portion of the SFW proposal have been redacted by SFW so the public has no ability to review key components of the SFW proposal, including its information regarding its drawing process, data security plan and how the $5 application fees will be spent. See SFW Proposal.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Looks like the DWR hasn't learned a damn thing yet! I have a feeling if this stonewalling keeps on that the only resort will be for you guys in Utah to get together and start some legal action on these obvious violations of the law. Now the Troll can step in and spout some more whiny BS!
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

You are surprised that details regarding data security would be kept from the public?

Were there differences between the social media posted bid and the bid you received via GRAMA?
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

FAQ #25 ? Q25: In the future, how can sportsmen and sportswomen share their thoughts about the Wildlife Expo Permit Program?
The DWR understands that people have a variety of opinions about the Wildlife Expo Permit Program. Comments on the program ? and ideas for change ? should be expressed through the established Regional Advisory Council process.

RESPONSE:


Once again, the DWR?s statement is not consistent with its actions. If the DWR feels so strongly about the RAC process and the public input received through that process then why didn't the DWR present a proposed rule amendment in the RACs that clearly disclosed to the public the DWR?s decision to move to a formal RFP process to award the Expo Tag Contract? As a result of the DWR?s actions, the public was denied any real opportunity to ask questions or provide comment on this significant change to the Expo Tag program. However, now that the public is frustrated with the DWR and the Expo Tag program, the DWR is directing the public to the RAC process ? the very same process that it previously ignored. Plus, the DWR and SFW just signed a five-year contract with a five-year extension provision. Therefore, it will likely be another decade before the DWR accepts any real public input from the RACs regarding the Expo Tag program.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

FAQ #26 ? Q26: Does all Utah conservation work need to be conducted through the DWR?
Not necessarily. The DWR enjoys working with its many partners but wants to emphasize that there's more than one channel for wildlife conservation efforts. There are hundreds of conservation organizations throughout the country that use their funding to support and promote outstanding wildlife conservation. Many DWR conservation partners ? including both SFW and RMEF ? have historically conducted these types of activities.

RESPONSE:


There is not a lot to say about FAQ #26 other than the DWR acknowledges that there are ?hundreds of conservation organizations throughout the country that use their funding to support and promote outstanding wildlife conservation.? According to the DWR?s own Administrative Rule, any one of those groups had the right to apply for and be considered for the Expo Tag Contract. See R657-55-4(3) and R657-55-2(2)(a) - http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r657/r657-055.htm#T3. That is why it is so ridiculous for the DWR to claim that it announced the move to the formal RFP process in a private meeting attended by several local conservation groups that were invited by the DWR. The reality is that any qualified conservation organization had the right to apply for the contract and rely on the process set forth in the DWR?s own Administrative Rule. Hopefully, the DWR has learned a lesson through this process about the importance of following its own rules and, when necessary, amending those rules through the public process.

CONCLUSION

I am happy to finally be finished responding to the DWR?s 26 Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding. See http://wildlife.utah.gov/utah-expo-permits-faq.html#q1. As I stated when I started this thread nearly a month ago, I am disappointed as a concerned sportsman at the position the DWR has taken on this issue. Rather than recognizing the legitimate concerns expressed by sportsmen and owning up to the mistakes that have been made, the DWR prepared a self-serving, one-sided statement that does little to resolve the concerns of sportsmen. Frankly, the DWR?s FAQ?s are merely an attempt to calm the waters and steer public attention away from the core issues. Although some of the DWR?s points are accurate, many of them are confusing, misleading or inaccurate. The DWR?s statement also unfairly portrays the RMEF in a bad light. For those of you who are sincerely interested in this issue, I hope that these posts helped shine a light on the problems that surround the Expo Tags and the way the DWR awarded the last Expo Tag Contract. Thank you for your patience, questions and comments. Although we have made some progress on this issue over the years, and begun to shed a light on what is occurring, there still remains a lack of transparency and accountability for the funds generated from these tags. The DWR and the groups claim that more transparency and accountability is forthcoming under the latest contract. I intend to keep pushing for real change and accountability.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawkeye,

Thank you for your efforts.

It is an uphill battle for sure, but only through continued pressure and documenting the half-truths, misstatements, and sometimes outright lies can we as sportsmen begin to hold the DWR accountable. Failure to follow the published administrative rules is a big deal, and we should demand better from a government agency.

Thanks again,

Bill
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Actually Apexmtnman, Hawkeye is the one who put the % before the number in a post to Tristate. Not that it makes a difference.

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawkeye,
How does the redaction happen in the SFW proposal?
Is this not breaking the law?
Especially since you followed the rules to get the proposals?

I may be wrong but there are cases to protect citizens under 18 in the rules but I cannot think of any rules that allow for the government to redact (or allow to be redacted) any of the information?

Again I may be wrong in all of this but GRAMA cannot allow this according to how I understood the rules?

Thanks again for all the work and explanations. This was worth the read. You write very well and follow up on things.
Thanks again.


Never miss the chance at a hunt of a lifetime.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

wannabe-

The rules allow a bidder to designate trade secrets and proprietary information as confidential. This means that it is redacted from the public view. SFW apparently believes that vast portions of its proposal are confidential, including basic information like how the $5 application fees will be spent. SFW knew that nobody would see its application until the contract was awarded, plus this contract won't likely come up for bid for another 10 years. Therefore, I don't know what they were so concerned about. It makes you wonder what information that are keeping from the public's view.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Any news of DWR/SFW Expo bid? Its been pretty quiet, I had emailed a few people but never heard back from them. I emailed the DWR director and the Governors office, but never heard back form either of them. Maybe with an election year, Gov Herby might want to look into things. I know its looking harder and harder for me to vote for him.
 
RE: Part 2 - Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Robiland-

I met with a legislator on Wednesday who suggested that sportsmen may want to reach out to the governor's office and let the governor know that sportsmen are concerned about this issue and that we are watching the appointments made within the Wildlife Board, the DWR and the Department of Natural Resources. In the past, the governor's office has been quite supportive of SFW and the Expo. Look no further than Governor Herbert's speech back in February. However, with the current election underway, it may be a good time for sportsmen to circle back and to express their concerns.

The contact information for the governor's office is as follows:

The Office of Governor Gary R. Herbert
350 North State Street, Suite 200
PO Box 142220
Salt Lake City, Utah 84114-2220
Phone: 801-538-1000
Toll Free: 800-705-2464
Leave written comment: https://gocentral.utah.gov/Request/Contact?response=true

-Hawkeye-
 

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