The defenceive cordinator is accused of molesting young boys at Penn State University and is seen raping a 10 year old boy on campus. Joe Paterno is told and he only tells the school president??? I think Paterno should be charged also. Thats something you just don't pass the buck on ! I think a young boys life is worth alot more than being friends with a pedophile....Get a rope.
Paterno & Penn State
- Thread starter jodog
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T
TheGreatWhiteHunter
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I agree WTH was he thinking call the police immediately and before they get there beat the crap out of the pervert.
THE LORD IS MY ROCK
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THE LORD IS MY ROCK
Colorado, U.S.A
NRA LIFE MEMBER
www.ElkHunterSports.com
Paterno did exactly what the law in Pennsylvania requires hin to do. He did it!! If his Boss didn't follow up on this it's not on him. Sanduski (sp) wasn't working for Paterno at the time but was allowed to use the facilities. Joe Paterno is a football coach and did what he was suppose to do according to the law. He was reporting what was told to him and he did the right thing. Should he circumvent the law and take matters into his own hands at 75 years of age?? He did what he was suppose to do and you guys want to hang him. Just my opinion.
Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
zekers
Very Active Member
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WTF Kingfish. Yes he told ONE person about the incident. Even at 75, he probably couldn't beat his azz, but he should have told EVERYONE that there was a frickin pedophile on campus. It's not like the POS was stealing a laptop, he was RAPING boys. BIG FRICKIN DIFFERENCE!
T
tageater
Guest
BLAME the rapist for what happened!
Joe passed on the info to his boss- I don't hold him accountable for what others did or didn't do with the information.
Joe passed on the info to his boss- I don't hold him accountable for what others did or didn't do with the information.
>Paterno did exactly what the law
>in Pennsylvania requires hin to
>do. He did it!! If
>his Boss didn't follow up
>on this it's not on
>him. Sanduski (sp) wasn't working
>for Paterno at the time
>but was allowed to use
>the facilities. Joe Paterno is
>a football coach and did
>what he was suppose to
>do according to the law.
>He was reporting what was
>told to him and he
>did the right thing. Should
>he circumvent the law and
>take matters into his own
>hands at 75 years of
>age?? He did what he
>was suppose to do and
>you guys want to hang
>him. Just my opinion.
>
>
>Government doesn't fix anything and has
>spent trillions proving it!!!
>Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday,
>even the calender says WTF!
>
Truly amazing
>in Pennsylvania requires hin to
>do. He did it!! If
>his Boss didn't follow up
>on this it's not on
>him. Sanduski (sp) wasn't working
>for Paterno at the time
>but was allowed to use
>the facilities. Joe Paterno is
>a football coach and did
>what he was suppose to
>do according to the law.
>He was reporting what was
>told to him and he
>did the right thing. Should
>he circumvent the law and
>take matters into his own
>hands at 75 years of
>age?? He did what he
>was suppose to do and
>you guys want to hang
>him. Just my opinion.
>
>
>Government doesn't fix anything and has
>spent trillions proving it!!!
>Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday,
>even the calender says WTF!
>
Truly amazing
Paterno should have followed up the initial reporting by calling the police once it was obvious that school officials failed to act. It's not enough that he notified school officials of the incident, but he also had a moral responsibility to follow up especially when it was known that Sandusky was still seeing these children on school property.
Eldorado
Eldorado
Bob, IT'S CALLED DUE PROCESS!! Let the facts come out first and then make a decission. We all grew up watching Joe Paterno and this is a real shocker..If he knew and covered up it will come out. Let's wait and see what the facts are. That's all I'm saying. He broke no laws and we don't know what he knew....
Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
LAST EDITED ON Nov-08-11 AT 01:46PM (MST)[p]We don't know JoPa didn't break any laws. As you said, let the facts come out. He might be complicit for all we know. Moraly he should have said something. Wether he broke the law somehow remains to be seen. The whole thing is fuggin discusting and I don't know why he wouldn't have followed up on it. I know I would and most people I know would have.
T
tageater
Guest
Since when does he have a moral obligation to make sure someone else does their job? Once he informed them he should be able to assume that they are going to the proper authorities.
Furthermore if it were me, I'd wanto keep my name as far away from it as I could, and NOT go asking tons of questions about it(leading to not knowing if/what the authorities were/werent doing)
But since everyone wants to blame someone...I'll jump on the bandwagon and say they should execute paterno for a pay-per-view special...it'll be a lesson for everyone that ever hears of a crime. You better follow the case all the way through sentencing, making sure everyone does their jobs right along the way!
Furthermore if it were me, I'd wanto keep my name as far away from it as I could, and NOT go asking tons of questions about it(leading to not knowing if/what the authorities were/werent doing)
But since everyone wants to blame someone...I'll jump on the bandwagon and say they should execute paterno for a pay-per-view special...it'll be a lesson for everyone that ever hears of a crime. You better follow the case all the way through sentencing, making sure everyone does their jobs right along the way!
Paterno is suppose to be a leader. Following through is what good leaders do. Simply doing the bear minimum is what followers do. Make no mistake about it Paterno is the leader of Penn State football. He is paid to lead not just teach football. His job title requires him to lead. He needed to get off his dead azz and lead. He didn't and he should be held accountable.
Roy
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There were many individuals other than Joe Paterno who had plenty of opportunities - long before Paterno allegedly knew about it - to stop Sandusky and his abuse. Some were quiet, some were stymied, some ignored it, one declined to prosecute. Predators like this guy are crafty liars and manipulators and make victims out of all those around them in order to cover their crimes. Sandusky was very close to Paterno and put on the required front - one that was hard to see through. It is easy to see the pattern of abuse now, but throughout that time it probably looked like isolated incidents and was never really seen by the same person twice - (except for the school administrators who have also been charged and are no longer employed by Penn State.)
Here is a link to the actual Grand Jury Report - you can read it for yourself WARNING - EXTREMELY DISTURBING AND GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION OF LEGAL PROCEEDINGS - IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE OR MAY HAVE INDIVIDUALS IN YOUR HOUSEHOLD WHO SHOULD BE SHIELDED FROM SUCH - DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK!
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/06/sports/ncaafootball/20111106-pennstate-document.html
I read through this and it turns my stomach at how many people let this go when they saw horrible horrible things.
On two specific incidents overt acts of rape were seen by Penn State staff. On both occasions - concerning Victim 2 and Victim 8, the chain of abuse could have ended right there. If I were either that janitor or that graduate assistant who had witnessed these things I guarantee you I would have stopped it in its tracks - or I would die (or Sandusky would have if he resisted) trying to do so - to save those boys IMMEDIATELY!
That is what appalls me - is that no immediate effort was made to stop it right then. They knew it was wrong and should have done all in their power to prevent that instance of rape from occurring even one second further.
JoePa is way way way down the line of responsible persons, but he will lose his job and his legacy will forever be tarnished by it.
HOOK 'EM!
_______________________________________
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Here is a link to the actual Grand Jury Report - you can read it for yourself WARNING - EXTREMELY DISTURBING AND GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION OF LEGAL PROCEEDINGS - IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE OR MAY HAVE INDIVIDUALS IN YOUR HOUSEHOLD WHO SHOULD BE SHIELDED FROM SUCH - DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK!
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/06/sports/ncaafootball/20111106-pennstate-document.html
I read through this and it turns my stomach at how many people let this go when they saw horrible horrible things.
On two specific incidents overt acts of rape were seen by Penn State staff. On both occasions - concerning Victim 2 and Victim 8, the chain of abuse could have ended right there. If I were either that janitor or that graduate assistant who had witnessed these things I guarantee you I would have stopped it in its tracks - or I would die (or Sandusky would have if he resisted) trying to do so - to save those boys IMMEDIATELY!
That is what appalls me - is that no immediate effort was made to stop it right then. They knew it was wrong and should have done all in their power to prevent that instance of rape from occurring even one second further.
JoePa is way way way down the line of responsible persons, but he will lose his job and his legacy will forever be tarnished by it.
HOOK 'EM!
_______________________________________
Since I am frequently asked about my religion on this site and others, I have created a profile that explains my beliefs. If you are interested in finding out more about my faith, please visit the link below:
http://mormon.org/me/6RNQ/
T
tageater
Guest
So if he had called 911 dispatch, would he have the moral obligation to make sure dispatch actually passed the message on to the police?
The frigin morality police can suck my azz! I have morals but I sure as hell don't have to live up to yours! And if it aint a legal thing then throw your stones- joe-pa aint done nothing wrong. If you wanna punish him for not doing enough right...well that's just stupid!
That's my 2.5 cents
The frigin morality police can suck my azz! I have morals but I sure as hell don't have to live up to yours! And if it aint a legal thing then throw your stones- joe-pa aint done nothing wrong. If you wanna punish him for not doing enough right...well that's just stupid!
That's my 2.5 cents
cbeard
Very Active Member
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Roy I agree with you until you say he was "way,way,way down on the list of responsible persons...."
ANYONE who receives any evidence of the unspeakable acts he received evidence of has a moral obligation to protect a child by making sure that evidence is investigated by the proper LAW ENFORCEMENT authorities. He(and alot of other people)should have followed up by all means possible to make sure of that. Simple as that.Black and white. No room for excuses. End of story.
ANYONE who receives any evidence of the unspeakable acts he received evidence of has a moral obligation to protect a child by making sure that evidence is investigated by the proper LAW ENFORCEMENT authorities. He(and alot of other people)should have followed up by all means possible to make sure of that. Simple as that.Black and white. No room for excuses. End of story.
Tageater,
My point is not about morales. While I do think it is the morale thing to make sure this individual was dealt with, I am not argueing a morale stance. My point is about the expectations of a leader. He did not live up to them in a big way. I dont think he should be thrown in jail but he damn well has not lived up to the expectations of his position. Not by a long shot. This is why he should be removed. You must have pretty low expectations of your leaders if you feel he has lived up to them.
I couldn't care less about your morales but if you were leading me I would expect a heck of a lot more from you than what Paterno has shown in this case.
My point is not about morales. While I do think it is the morale thing to make sure this individual was dealt with, I am not argueing a morale stance. My point is about the expectations of a leader. He did not live up to them in a big way. I dont think he should be thrown in jail but he damn well has not lived up to the expectations of his position. Not by a long shot. This is why he should be removed. You must have pretty low expectations of your leaders if you feel he has lived up to them.
I couldn't care less about your morales but if you were leading me I would expect a heck of a lot more from you than what Paterno has shown in this case.
idahonative
Active Member
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LAST EDITED ON Nov-08-11 AT 09:24PM (MST)[p]There's protocol and chain of command on how things of any nature are reported, especially in a huge top-tier athletic department. JoePa most likely did exactly as he was supposed to do in passing the necessary info on to the athletic director and/or president, who then deal with police. If it wasn't followed up on by them, then there's where the problem really lay.
In my opinion, they're calling for Paterno's head simply because he's the biggest fish and they want to send a message, when it's 1)the freaking scumbag pedophile that should be getting the attention, and 2) the person Paterno reported it to that sat on it should be next in line for "hanging".
Paterno's big mistake was not following up on it after nothing happened. That's what's going to ruin him and his legacy.
The most disturbing thing is that the people who actually witnessed it didn't push it further.
In my opinion, they're calling for Paterno's head simply because he's the biggest fish and they want to send a message, when it's 1)the freaking scumbag pedophile that should be getting the attention, and 2) the person Paterno reported it to that sat on it should be next in line for "hanging".
Paterno's big mistake was not following up on it after nothing happened. That's what's going to ruin him and his legacy.
The most disturbing thing is that the people who actually witnessed it didn't push it further.
1911
Long Time Member
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Most important we need to save the reputation and solvency of an athletic program here. All else is secondary right boys?
After all, THAT is why we have a page 1 story here. Why should this attitude come as a surprise. Hopefully the boosters will come up with enough money to hire a professional crisis management team before something serious happens here.
After all, THAT is why we have a page 1 story here. Why should this attitude come as a surprise. Hopefully the boosters will come up with enough money to hire a professional crisis management team before something serious happens here.
Roy
Moderator
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The only crisis management at this point is fire Paterno, his staff, the University President, and anyone else involved and start over with a new lease. It has to start from the top down.
And Cbeard - I totally agree. Paterno holds a lot of responsibility but in the strictest legal sense, he was not an eyewitness and appears to have been just as deceived and victimized as were those boys for a long time. So legally they probably have nothing on him. That doesn't mean his soul shouldn't be tormented with grief for a few milenia though.
HOOK 'EM!
_______________________________________
Since I am frequently asked about my religion on this site and others, I have created a profile that explains my beliefs. If you are interested in finding out more about my faith, please visit the link below:
http://mormon.org/me/6RNQ/
And Cbeard - I totally agree. Paterno holds a lot of responsibility but in the strictest legal sense, he was not an eyewitness and appears to have been just as deceived and victimized as were those boys for a long time. So legally they probably have nothing on him. That doesn't mean his soul shouldn't be tormented with grief for a few milenia though.
HOOK 'EM!
_______________________________________
Since I am frequently asked about my religion on this site and others, I have created a profile that explains my beliefs. If you are interested in finding out more about my faith, please visit the link below:
http://mormon.org/me/6RNQ/
Yes, Paterno did as the law requires.
I've got a young son; if he had been one of the victims, I'd have enough bullets for Paterno, too.
BUT.....If you want to be mad at someone, what about the people who witnessed (live and in person) this crap on two separate occasions!
Read the grand jury transcripts!
The witnesses actually WATCHED and didn't go kick somebody's butt. Joe wouldn't be able and wasn't there (doesn't let him off the morally-correct hook) but there were those who were there and who could have done something.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
I've got a young son; if he had been one of the victims, I'd have enough bullets for Paterno, too.
BUT.....If you want to be mad at someone, what about the people who witnessed (live and in person) this crap on two separate occasions!
Read the grand jury transcripts!
The witnesses actually WATCHED and didn't go kick somebody's butt. Joe wouldn't be able and wasn't there (doesn't let him off the morally-correct hook) but there were those who were there and who could have done something.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
feddoc
Long Time Member
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Man, it hurts to read about this. My boy was molested in one of his foster homes, and it is a hell for which he is still paying.
I think a whole lot more of the blame should go towards a system which has, at least it appears to, a set of rules which does not say that if you witness a crime, do something other than tell someone within the admin system... crap, something like that needs to be stopped immediately. Now maybe the janitor and or grad student weren't physically able to. But, use some friggin common sense and call the cops.
Joe Paterno should also be held accountable, to some degree, but, how much? What he heard is hearsay...but, still, that kind of stuff needs to be investigated by cops, not by University Presidents.
Compromise, hell! ... If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?
I think a whole lot more of the blame should go towards a system which has, at least it appears to, a set of rules which does not say that if you witness a crime, do something other than tell someone within the admin system... crap, something like that needs to be stopped immediately. Now maybe the janitor and or grad student weren't physically able to. But, use some friggin common sense and call the cops.
Joe Paterno should also be held accountable, to some degree, but, how much? What he heard is hearsay...but, still, that kind of stuff needs to be investigated by cops, not by University Presidents.
Compromise, hell! ... If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?
zekers
Very Active Member
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You are all right in that Paterno probably did nothing illegal, but really, WTF? The MM ethics police whimper and whine when a deer suffers for 5 minutes, but the same emotions are stifled when boys are raped? I don't care if I heard a rumor from a guy who's a friend of a friend of the UPS guy, if he said a pedophile was raping boys, I would damn sure follow up on that rumor until it was proved right or wrong. There are a pile of people in the wrong on this one...including Paterno!
Makes me sick!! They all need their nuts cut out!! Even if facts clear individuals such as Pussterno. He should have followed through with the cops. No moral responsibility. They are all conspirators in my book. Kill em all and let god sort em out. I just can't get over the fact doubt in this guy was there and no one did anything until now.
I've lost a lot of respect for some of the posters on here big time!! but in this day and age what do you expect ? This is the way it is...if you see a child being hurt and in this case it was a 10 year old boy you do something, the right thing, you make it stop! Paterno is the head coach of one of the finest universitys in america he let his friend get away with raping young boys he told the athletic director and he knew his friend wasn't arrested for the rape. Joe Paterno should have helped that boy and his family. It was his RESPONSIBILITY as a human being!!!
3
300wbymann
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-08-11 AT 09:30PM (MST)[p]i agree, he should have done alot more, but whats more f'd up to me is- you hear more people bitc$en about what jo-pa didn;t do that the what THE RAPEST DID?
gimme a break, the guy who molested the kids will never be remembered, but paterno will wear this forever?
lets take care of the molestor, THEN work on someone who did their legal duty, but not what most of us would have done....
it's like letting the bank robber go, as long as the big name guy who let them sleep in the garage for hiding gets nailed. sure it's WAY WRONG, but can we make sure to nail the plick that did it first?
gimme a break, the guy who molested the kids will never be remembered, but paterno will wear this forever?
lets take care of the molestor, THEN work on someone who did their legal duty, but not what most of us would have done....
it's like letting the bank robber go, as long as the big name guy who let them sleep in the garage for hiding gets nailed. sure it's WAY WRONG, but can we make sure to nail the plick that did it first?
T
tageater
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-08-11 AT 11:53PM (MST)[p]
You said-I've lost a lot of respect for some of the posters on here big time!
I could care less if I'm one of them.
I will say this whole story makes me sick to my stomach. What happened, what was done about it, and the witch hunt that its become is disgusting(to me)!!!
The witch hunt syndrome especially eats me up. There isn't one of you that knows what paterno knew or didn't know. What he did or didn't do! Yet you let the media coverage sway your opinions like little leaves on a tree...this way and that...sh!t boy's let's hear the whole story, before we send the lynch mob over to the jail!
Could he(and many others) have done more-YES!
Are they legally required to do more?? Depends on their level of knowlege- eye witness- YES!
Should He be held responsible? Not enough
Information given. That's the only direction I was going with my replies.
Edit- Unless I was involved and had personal knowledge of facts(in which case I WOULD have done more) I have a moral obligation to hear ALL the facts of a case before judging anyone and throwing them under a bus. How many of you know all the facts?- end edit
But this is MM Campfire forum, so what should I expect?
In the end i wont feel sorry for anyone other than the kids(and their families) in this story-
You said-I've lost a lot of respect for some of the posters on here big time!
I could care less if I'm one of them.
I will say this whole story makes me sick to my stomach. What happened, what was done about it, and the witch hunt that its become is disgusting(to me)!!!
The witch hunt syndrome especially eats me up. There isn't one of you that knows what paterno knew or didn't know. What he did or didn't do! Yet you let the media coverage sway your opinions like little leaves on a tree...this way and that...sh!t boy's let's hear the whole story, before we send the lynch mob over to the jail!
Could he(and many others) have done more-YES!
Are they legally required to do more?? Depends on their level of knowlege- eye witness- YES!
Should He be held responsible? Not enough
Information given. That's the only direction I was going with my replies.
Edit- Unless I was involved and had personal knowledge of facts(in which case I WOULD have done more) I have a moral obligation to hear ALL the facts of a case before judging anyone and throwing them under a bus. How many of you know all the facts?- end edit
But this is MM Campfire forum, so what should I expect?
In the end i wont feel sorry for anyone other than the kids(and their families) in this story-
As I said, I'd have had enough bullets for Joe, too....but the guy at whom you should be incensed is the graduate assistant football coach (not skinny little screech but a 23-year-old football coach) WHO SAW IT HAPPENING and who did nothing...(could have kicked the crap out of Sandusky) except tell Joe the next day.
Prior to him, more than one janitor WATCHED and took no action.
That doesn't make Joe blameless but he didn't find out about it AS IT WAS HAPPENING, with a physical opportunity to stop it.
There are plenty of people who need to be horsewhipped. Paterno is on the list but there are 7 or 8 ahead of him.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
Prior to him, more than one janitor WATCHED and took no action.
That doesn't make Joe blameless but he didn't find out about it AS IT WAS HAPPENING, with a physical opportunity to stop it.
There are plenty of people who need to be horsewhipped. Paterno is on the list but there are 7 or 8 ahead of him.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
If you want more details and less media hype, the grand jury transcripts are able to be read. I have read them.
I'll stand by my statements that Paterno was wrong but there are several who were wrong first and who had an opportunity to do something more immediately.
Joe P. is less at fault than the several janitors (and their supervisors to whom all this was reported) or the assistant football coach (and his dad to whom he reported) BEFORE Paterno.
None of those people did ANYTHING...except the assistant coach and his father told Joe P. Joe at least told the athletic director AND the campus police/security.
He should have followed up....but so should a BUNCH of other people.
We all know the media sensationalizes things; we know law enforcement is FAR from infallible and totally honest.....but the grand jury testimony seems fairly complete and there are a LOT of witnesses who tell a very similar story.
That story includes several actual WITNESSES who took no physical action. It also includes high-level university employees who did next to nothing. Joe P. should have followed up on all this but he is about the only one who even reported it.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
I'll stand by my statements that Paterno was wrong but there are several who were wrong first and who had an opportunity to do something more immediately.
Joe P. is less at fault than the several janitors (and their supervisors to whom all this was reported) or the assistant football coach (and his dad to whom he reported) BEFORE Paterno.
None of those people did ANYTHING...except the assistant coach and his father told Joe P. Joe at least told the athletic director AND the campus police/security.
He should have followed up....but so should a BUNCH of other people.
We all know the media sensationalizes things; we know law enforcement is FAR from infallible and totally honest.....but the grand jury testimony seems fairly complete and there are a LOT of witnesses who tell a very similar story.
That story includes several actual WITNESSES who took no physical action. It also includes high-level university employees who did next to nothing. Joe P. should have followed up on all this but he is about the only one who even reported it.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
LAST EDITED ON Nov-09-11 AT 01:32AM (MST)[p]Anyone who had information or knowledge of kids being hurt in anyway should have followed through period. Who gives a fat rats AAA how important or high prophile the person and or subject is. NO EXCUSE!!!!
Tag said,
"Since when does he have a moral obligation to make sure someone else does their job? Once he informed them he should be able to assume that they are going to the proper authorities".
He has a moral obligation when he assumes the role as a head coach and hires those in his staff under him. It's called taking responsibility!!!!!!!!!!!
He should ASSUME? LMAO!!! Ya we know what that gets us!! Nothing!!!
I guess what he did was just good enough?? I THINK NOT!!!!
Tag said,
"Since when does he have a moral obligation to make sure someone else does their job? Once he informed them he should be able to assume that they are going to the proper authorities".
He has a moral obligation when he assumes the role as a head coach and hires those in his staff under him. It's called taking responsibility!!!!!!!!!!!
He should ASSUME? LMAO!!! Ya we know what that gets us!! Nothing!!!
I guess what he did was just good enough?? I THINK NOT!!!!
It's not just Paterno it's everyone that knew and did nothing. They all should have gone to the police and not worried about some stupid chain of command. When a kid is being raped there is no chain of command you jump in and worry about the chain of command later, at that point you are the top of the chain !!
It is Penn State and it shows how scared all those men were of doing or saying anything that might put PSU and the mighty football program in jeopardy. This is not only bad for PSU it shows how weak alot of americans have become to let this continue. Sandusky should be hung but all the people that covered it up are just as guilty !! you don't let this go on, that simple... were talking about CHILDERN here..and grown mem doing NOTHING.
It is Penn State and it shows how scared all those men were of doing or saying anything that might put PSU and the mighty football program in jeopardy. This is not only bad for PSU it shows how weak alot of americans have become to let this continue. Sandusky should be hung but all the people that covered it up are just as guilty !! you don't let this go on, that simple... were talking about CHILDERN here..and grown mem doing NOTHING.
Roy
Moderator
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Exaclty right jodog - that is actually what I meant by Paterno being way way way way way down the line in responsibility - I meant that by the time it came across his desk, there were at least 10 other individuals - law enforcement and University officials included - who could have prevented anything further from happening - AND THAT WAS IN 1998!!! Then they ALL let it continue for ANOTHER 13 YEARS!!
Are you kidding me???!!!
That is what gets me - they KNEW (Joe Paterno included - that's why Sansusky "retired" in 1999!) that Sandusky was showering with a 10 year old boy, and that he had admitted inappropriate contact and the STATE DECLINED TO PROSECUTE.
Are you freaking kidding me??
So, nobody did anything. The abuse continued and everybody looked the other way. Some of that looking the other way is criminal, some of it not as much, but it is all morally reprehensible.
But I also have to say that Tageater is right too - we don't have ALL the facts yet, we don't know enough to criminalize any of the behavior by those in power other than what has already been criminalized. But we are not yet satisfied, in our own narcisistic sense of self interest, we want instant gratification and immediate justice so we don't have to look deep inside ourselves and question our own code of ethics and morals. And, in many regards, that is just as reprehensible as the ingorance displayed across the broad spectrum at State College, PA.
Also - here is another great article the summarizes the feelings expressed here.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7205085/growing-penn-state
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Are you kidding me???!!!
That is what gets me - they KNEW (Joe Paterno included - that's why Sansusky "retired" in 1999!) that Sandusky was showering with a 10 year old boy, and that he had admitted inappropriate contact and the STATE DECLINED TO PROSECUTE.
Are you freaking kidding me??
So, nobody did anything. The abuse continued and everybody looked the other way. Some of that looking the other way is criminal, some of it not as much, but it is all morally reprehensible.
But I also have to say that Tageater is right too - we don't have ALL the facts yet, we don't know enough to criminalize any of the behavior by those in power other than what has already been criminalized. But we are not yet satisfied, in our own narcisistic sense of self interest, we want instant gratification and immediate justice so we don't have to look deep inside ourselves and question our own code of ethics and morals. And, in many regards, that is just as reprehensible as the ingorance displayed across the broad spectrum at State College, PA.
Also - here is another great article the summarizes the feelings expressed here.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7205085/growing-penn-state
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Roy
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cbeard
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Certainly ALOT of people let the kids down here. Paterno being just one. Of course Sandusky is the sick monster here. I think everyone recognizes that and it goes almost without saying-the discussion we are having is about the actions of the others who could have acted but didn't. My points are:
1)While some are certainly more culpable than others and one could rank their culpability,ANYONE on that list who had information about what this monster may have been doing and did not move heaven and earth to make sure law enforcement knew is a moral failure of a person. Period.
2)Tag I usually agree with you on letting the facts come out but here the Grand Jury transcript is so specific and there are so many victims (with more to come) that I have no doubt about the truth about what occurred here. The legal system says they are innocent until proven guilty and (as a lawyer) I respect and honor that. But I am not the legal system so I refuse to give a monster and those who enabled him a free pass in reaching and stating my opinion when the facts are this clear.
3)There is alot of talk and talk and talk that has and will take place about this situation but,sadly, it is really very simple. A group of men from janitors to to the head coach to the university president put THEMSELVES (their fear or their power or their job)ahead of protecting the most vulnerable in our society from a monster. That's it. Plain and simple.
It's not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. And anything less than cries for justice and outrage by the public at those involved will only encourage it to happen more. Thus,I am outraged and I cry for justice. Those legally culpable should be prosecuted and those morally responsible should have already been fired.
1)While some are certainly more culpable than others and one could rank their culpability,ANYONE on that list who had information about what this monster may have been doing and did not move heaven and earth to make sure law enforcement knew is a moral failure of a person. Period.
2)Tag I usually agree with you on letting the facts come out but here the Grand Jury transcript is so specific and there are so many victims (with more to come) that I have no doubt about the truth about what occurred here. The legal system says they are innocent until proven guilty and (as a lawyer) I respect and honor that. But I am not the legal system so I refuse to give a monster and those who enabled him a free pass in reaching and stating my opinion when the facts are this clear.
3)There is alot of talk and talk and talk that has and will take place about this situation but,sadly, it is really very simple. A group of men from janitors to to the head coach to the university president put THEMSELVES (their fear or their power or their job)ahead of protecting the most vulnerable in our society from a monster. That's it. Plain and simple.
It's not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. And anything less than cries for justice and outrage by the public at those involved will only encourage it to happen more. Thus,I am outraged and I cry for justice. Those legally culpable should be prosecuted and those morally responsible should have already been fired.
feddoc
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So, the campus police were told...what did they do about it?
And the jackass Sandusky admitted showering with a kid and the state didn't prosecute?
WTF kind of signal does that send? 'OH, it's ok to bugger little boys as long as you are a person of stature.'
effin people like that deserve general population whilst in prison. At least they won't do it anymore.
Compromise, hell! ... If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?
And the jackass Sandusky admitted showering with a kid and the state didn't prosecute?
WTF kind of signal does that send? 'OH, it's ok to bugger little boys as long as you are a person of stature.'
effin people like that deserve general population whilst in prison. At least they won't do it anymore.
Compromise, hell! ... If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?
Roy
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LAST EDITED ON Nov-09-11 AT 09:52AM (MST)[p]Not only that Feddoc, PSU officials only real punishment at the time was that he was not allowed to bring children on campus - effectively saying, "Well, just don't do it here." Then they later came back and admitted it was basically an unenforceable rule.
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never_catch
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Here's my take with ALL the INFO that I CURRENTLY have knowledge of...
Joe Paterno knows college football really really well!! I don't know of a single other thing he's good at other than helping kids but his focus on football has been unbelievable...he's dedicated his life to it!!
Paterno has a focus which only involves helping kids and in many ways, the biggest being a winning and leading coach. Finding out he was involved in a rape cover up is something that would absolutely shock me!! I would feel horrible for the kid first and the students second. I'd feel bad for Joe third...unless it's proven that he blatantly turned his head the other way when he should have said something!!
Could anything worse possibly happen to a kid??
Could anything worse possibly happen to a longtime, major university??
Could anything worse possibly happen to the most winning college football coach in history??
Maybe you know something that I don't know but I haven't heard of him being found guilty of anything recently...heard some rumors but there's also rumors he'll coach a football game this weekend so I don't really have enough evidence to pass judgement yet.
I'm a Les Miles fan like I'm a Kobe Bryant fan, dudes are winners!! I hope for the University's sake, Miles goes to Penn State after his existing contract at LSU because I could be an LSU and Penn State fan for sure!! If he ever left and went to Alabama like Nick Satan did though...I'd ####### lose it!!
I hope Joe didn't do something wrong, he's a grandpa football coach and it would be sad to see him go down for major involvement in a giant case like this involving hurt kids.
That is all...
~Z~
Joe Paterno knows college football really really well!! I don't know of a single other thing he's good at other than helping kids but his focus on football has been unbelievable...he's dedicated his life to it!!
Paterno has a focus which only involves helping kids and in many ways, the biggest being a winning and leading coach. Finding out he was involved in a rape cover up is something that would absolutely shock me!! I would feel horrible for the kid first and the students second. I'd feel bad for Joe third...unless it's proven that he blatantly turned his head the other way when he should have said something!!
Could anything worse possibly happen to a kid??
Could anything worse possibly happen to a longtime, major university??
Could anything worse possibly happen to the most winning college football coach in history??
Maybe you know something that I don't know but I haven't heard of him being found guilty of anything recently...heard some rumors but there's also rumors he'll coach a football game this weekend so I don't really have enough evidence to pass judgement yet.
I'm a Les Miles fan like I'm a Kobe Bryant fan, dudes are winners!! I hope for the University's sake, Miles goes to Penn State after his existing contract at LSU because I could be an LSU and Penn State fan for sure!! If he ever left and went to Alabama like Nick Satan did though...I'd ####### lose it!!
I hope Joe didn't do something wrong, he's a grandpa football coach and it would be sad to see him go down for major involvement in a giant case like this involving hurt kids.
That is all...
~Z~
Roy
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FIRED.
http://espn.go.com/college-football...e-paterno-president-graham-spanier-penn-state
Wednesday, November 9, 2011
Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier out
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESPN.com news services
Both football coach Joe Paterno and president Graham Spanier are out at Penn State in the wake of a disturbing child sex abuse scandal involving a former assistant coach.
Paterno said in a statement Wednesday he would retire after the season, but the university's board of trustees met Wednesday night and decided Paterno would not be allowed to continue as coach effective immediately. Assistant coach Tom Bradley has been named interim coach.
Spanier chose to resign Wednesday and will be replaced temporarily by provost Rodney Erickson.
Paterno has been besieged by criticism since Jerry Sandusky, his former defensive coordinator, was charged over the weekend with 40 criminal counts of molesting eight young boys between 1994 and 2009 through his charitable foundation for at-risk youths, The Second Mile. Sandusky is free on bail and has a Dec. 7 court hearing.
Athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz were charged Monday with failing to notify authorities after an eyewitness reported a 2002 assault. The two will seek to have the charges dismissed, their lawyers said. Curley requested to be placed on administrative leave so he could devote time to his defense, and Schultz will be going back into retirement, the school announced.
The U.S. Department of Education said Wednesday it would investigate whether Penn State violated federal law requiring the disclosure of criminal offenses on campus and warnings of crimes posing a threat to the community in its handling of the allegations. U.S. Rep. Patrick Meehan, R-Pa., requested the Education Department's involvement on Tuesday.
"If these allegations of sexual abuse are true then this is a horrible tragedy for those young boys. If it turns out that some people at the school knew of the abuse and did nothing or covered it up, that makes it even worse," U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan said. "Schools and school officials have a legal and moral responsibility to protect children and young people from violence and abuse."
Mark C. Sherburne, Curley's acting replacement as AD, issued a statement Wednesday, saying the school is "devastated" by the allegations in the grand jury presentment against Sandusky.
"Our hearts go out to the children and their families," he said.
Information from The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football...e-paterno-president-graham-spanier-penn-state
Wednesday, November 9, 2011
Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier out
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESPN.com news services
Both football coach Joe Paterno and president Graham Spanier are out at Penn State in the wake of a disturbing child sex abuse scandal involving a former assistant coach.
Paterno said in a statement Wednesday he would retire after the season, but the university's board of trustees met Wednesday night and decided Paterno would not be allowed to continue as coach effective immediately. Assistant coach Tom Bradley has been named interim coach.
Spanier chose to resign Wednesday and will be replaced temporarily by provost Rodney Erickson.
Paterno has been besieged by criticism since Jerry Sandusky, his former defensive coordinator, was charged over the weekend with 40 criminal counts of molesting eight young boys between 1994 and 2009 through his charitable foundation for at-risk youths, The Second Mile. Sandusky is free on bail and has a Dec. 7 court hearing.
Athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz were charged Monday with failing to notify authorities after an eyewitness reported a 2002 assault. The two will seek to have the charges dismissed, their lawyers said. Curley requested to be placed on administrative leave so he could devote time to his defense, and Schultz will be going back into retirement, the school announced.
The U.S. Department of Education said Wednesday it would investigate whether Penn State violated federal law requiring the disclosure of criminal offenses on campus and warnings of crimes posing a threat to the community in its handling of the allegations. U.S. Rep. Patrick Meehan, R-Pa., requested the Education Department's involvement on Tuesday.
"If these allegations of sexual abuse are true then this is a horrible tragedy for those young boys. If it turns out that some people at the school knew of the abuse and did nothing or covered it up, that makes it even worse," U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan said. "Schools and school officials have a legal and moral responsibility to protect children and young people from violence and abuse."
Mark C. Sherburne, Curley's acting replacement as AD, issued a statement Wednesday, saying the school is "devastated" by the allegations in the grand jury presentment against Sandusky.
"Our hearts go out to the children and their families," he said.
Information from The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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I saw former Penn St. quarterback, Todd Blackledge, talking about his strong feelings for Joe P; how much he had learned from him about being a man.
He said things like, "when one has great authority and position, he also has great responsibility for everyone and particularly those who lack such power".
He said many such things and said he learned all of that from Joe Paterno.
(Not legalities but right from wrong) Joe really dropped the ball when it came time to live up to those (his) ideals. I'd really like to say I feel sorry for Joe (or the others who are not named Sandusky).
BUT....I was married to someone who was molested as a small girl. It has haunted her for more than 4 decades and has really messed up both our lives, the life of our son and negatively impacted the lives of grandchildren.....few things are so egregious and leave such a foul legacy.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
He said things like, "when one has great authority and position, he also has great responsibility for everyone and particularly those who lack such power".
He said many such things and said he learned all of that from Joe Paterno.
(Not legalities but right from wrong) Joe really dropped the ball when it came time to live up to those (his) ideals. I'd really like to say I feel sorry for Joe (or the others who are not named Sandusky).
BUT....I was married to someone who was molested as a small girl. It has haunted her for more than 4 decades and has really messed up both our lives, the life of our son and negatively impacted the lives of grandchildren.....few things are so egregious and leave such a foul legacy.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
Had ANYONE simply reported this when it was first known, Sandusky would have gone to jail (don't think we use the guillotine), 15 years worth of victims would have been saved.......and the football program would have been OK (NOT a Penn St. fan).
I'd have believed Paterno WAS what he appeared to be, if he (OR SOMEONE) had blown the whistle when they should have.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
I'd have believed Paterno WAS what he appeared to be, if he (OR SOMEONE) had blown the whistle when they should have.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
feddoc
Long Time Member
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Yea, it sure seems wrong that they are bitching about him being fired..but not so much concern for the boys.
I hope the PD at PSU gets the axe too. They were aware of it, and, from what little I have seen in print media, didn't do much.
>I've always had a ton of
>respect for Joe Paterno but
>this had to be done.
>I think they should get
>rid of all of those
>that knew about this and
>start over at PSU. The
>students rioting in the streets
>??? Riot for the young
>rape victoms.
Compromise, hell! ... If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?
I hope the PD at PSU gets the axe too. They were aware of it, and, from what little I have seen in print media, didn't do much.
>I've always had a ton of
>respect for Joe Paterno but
>this had to be done.
>I think they should get
>rid of all of those
>that knew about this and
>start over at PSU. The
>students rioting in the streets
>??? Riot for the young
>rape victoms.
Compromise, hell! ... If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?
Roy
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Well - it came up as a grand jury investigation. The report of the grand jury finding were released last Friday. People have been trying to report on it for 6 months but have basically been told to cease and desist.
Check out post #16 above.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-b...show_thread&om=15392&forum=DCForumID11&omm=16
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Check out post #16 above.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-b...show_thread&om=15392&forum=DCForumID11&omm=16
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NVPete
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How can anyone forgive those who acted within their "legal" or ethical responsibility by reporting or conferring NOT to law enforcement, but to confidential persons or "chain of command" or whatever.I'm sorry, but I would have reported to BOTH IMMEDIATELY. As for those trying to make excuse for the Penn State head coach Paterno, that he did the right thing...READ THE GRAND JURY REPORT...enough said for me. All those involved, including the police and the legal system FAILED the victims and families and loved ones first, then ultimately their beloved Penn State University and its storied football program... indelible scarring BIG TIME! Won't be forgotten or go away any time soon! VERY SAD!:-(
K
knthartter
Guest
This whole thing is said....poor kids...hope this guy gets whats coming to him in jail.
Now correct me if im wrong but Joe did not see it happening himself he was told by some else that they saw it, second hand info. wow on one hand people on here say don't site second hand info if you weren't there and don't know all the facts, then they'er saying burn Joe for not doing more. Its great to talk crap about what u would have done, but you realy don't no what you would do unlease you were put in that situation. What pisses me off is that someone could see this happening and walk away and not have kicked the leaving crap out of this guy, those are the people everyone should be asking what the F@@k.
anyway just my thoughts
Now correct me if im wrong but Joe did not see it happening himself he was told by some else that they saw it, second hand info. wow on one hand people on here say don't site second hand info if you weren't there and don't know all the facts, then they'er saying burn Joe for not doing more. Its great to talk crap about what u would have done, but you realy don't no what you would do unlease you were put in that situation. What pisses me off is that someone could see this happening and walk away and not have kicked the leaving crap out of this guy, those are the people everyone should be asking what the F@@k.
anyway just my thoughts
feddoc
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-11 AT 12:48PM (MST)[p]Here is a pic of the grad assistant. He is the one walking with Paterno.
Compromise, hell! ... If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?
Compromise, hell! ... If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?
R
RMK_800
Guest
You know if Joe Pa had watched some dog fighting people would want him to be executed...but since they are only little boys he should be able to keep his job till the end of the season and retire with dignity! People are sick!!
3
300wbymann
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-11 AT 07:38PM (MST)[p]joe-pa this, joe-pa that-- what about the GUY WHO DID IT, AND THE GUYS WHO SEEN IT HAPPENING?
because he's a big name that all you hear about.
if you ask me, there has been a group that has wanted him out. this is a great time to do it!
what will anyone say? of course he could have done more!
but why is the headline on ESPN NEWS " patterno"?
he didnt do sh^T! in fact he did report it to the A.D. and the campus police. why the f didn't THEY do something about it?
it's a great story because of the big name involved- and it's a good way to get rid of the outdated , old coach.
other than that- it's a bunch of b.s.
because he's a big name that all you hear about.
if you ask me, there has been a group that has wanted him out. this is a great time to do it!
what will anyone say? of course he could have done more!
but why is the headline on ESPN NEWS " patterno"?
he didnt do sh^T! in fact he did report it to the A.D. and the campus police. why the f didn't THEY do something about it?
it's a great story because of the big name involved- and it's a good way to get rid of the outdated , old coach.
other than that- it's a bunch of b.s.
>Homosexual child rapist don't call the
>police on other Homosexual child
>rapist.
Now that's pretty heavy!! I did not hear that on ESPN tonight.
Facts are not out but something deep and dark is unfolding at penny state.
I agree on "where's the press on the child molesting ast. Coach" ? I think everyone in the press and public knows what's coming to him. I think why joe p is getting all the press is he knows more than what is being let on and public figures with bad press sell newspapers.
>police on other Homosexual child
>rapist.
Now that's pretty heavy!! I did not hear that on ESPN tonight.
Facts are not out but something deep and dark is unfolding at penny state.
I agree on "where's the press on the child molesting ast. Coach" ? I think everyone in the press and public knows what's coming to him. I think why joe p is getting all the press is he knows more than what is being let on and public figures with bad press sell newspapers.
LAST EDITED ON Nov-11-11 AT 00:31AM (MST)[p]A story is starting to surface about a DA,who may have known about the Penn St. case but decided not to prosecute.
If that turns out to be true, maybe Joe P. (or others) DID report properly. I don't know from whence his investigation started.
In my opinion, that would not get McQuery (eye witness) off the hook for not doing something at the moment but a 75-year-old Joe could not physically do anything. He COULD/SHOULD have taken it to the point that the DA had the information.
BUT, that DA disappeared one month short of his retirement; not yet found; his hard drive has surfaced but has not (yet) been able to provide insight into his disappearance.
Is that disappearance connected to this case (as the ESPN reporter was suggesting) or merely coincidental?
Within the shadows, go quietly.
If that turns out to be true, maybe Joe P. (or others) DID report properly. I don't know from whence his investigation started.
In my opinion, that would not get McQuery (eye witness) off the hook for not doing something at the moment but a 75-year-old Joe could not physically do anything. He COULD/SHOULD have taken it to the point that the DA had the information.
BUT, that DA disappeared one month short of his retirement; not yet found; his hard drive has surfaced but has not (yet) been able to provide insight into his disappearance.
Is that disappearance connected to this case (as the ESPN reporter was suggesting) or merely coincidental?
Within the shadows, go quietly.
Maybe Joe did everything he was obligated to do as an employee but as a human being he should have pushed it until Sandusky was fired and no other child was harmed ever again by this dirtbag. Pretty simple. How many kids were harmed since Joe knew about this?
B
bakerboy
Guest
There are 8 victims in the grand jury report.
The sad thing people like Sandusky just dont start doing this in their 60's. He started his organization in 1977. Who knows how many countless kids he has abused in the last 34 + years.
My opinion the entire coaching staff needs to be cleaned out, because you cannot tell me they never talked about it as a staff. At least two of the coaches knew about it. You know they won't keep that to themselves they are going to tell or mention it to the other coaches that they spend 60+ hours a week with.
That tells me all of them had an idea that something was going on.
The sad thing people like Sandusky just dont start doing this in their 60's. He started his organization in 1977. Who knows how many countless kids he has abused in the last 34 + years.
My opinion the entire coaching staff needs to be cleaned out, because you cannot tell me they never talked about it as a staff. At least two of the coaches knew about it. You know they won't keep that to themselves they are going to tell or mention it to the other coaches that they spend 60+ hours a week with.
That tells me all of them had an idea that something was going on.
And the "longer this goes", the more people are shown to have known....beyond that they HAD to have gossiped around the coffee table....about it for a long time.
As said, this probably started several decades ago. It was WITNESSED repeatedly and even investigated (a little).
NOBODY DID SQUAT!
Within the shadows, go quietly.
As said, this probably started several decades ago. It was WITNESSED repeatedly and even investigated (a little).
NOBODY DID SQUAT!
Within the shadows, go quietly.
