Perposed California Lead ban

O

outlawlineman

Guest
California has perposed a lead ammo ban on centerfires in the California Condor range.
The California Senate passed a bill this week that would prohibit the use of lead bullets to hunt big game in the state's endangered condor range, including in all of San Benito County.

If signed into law, the bill would ban the use of lead bullets to hunt animals such as deer and feral pigs in the California condor range starting July 1, 2008.

Called the Ridley-Tree Condor Preservation Act, the bill passed the California Senate on Tuesday by a vote of 23-15. It goes to the Assembly for a vote on Senate ammendments and, if passed, would be sent to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger for consideration.

Proponents of the bill argue there is a scientific link between the use of lead ammunition and lead poisoning in the endangered species. A consortium of scientists announced in July that isotopes found in lead bullet samples were significantly similar to those found in blood of condors suffering from poisoning.

"Based on the level of mortality we've seen in California and Arizona, it is impossible to have a self-sustaining population with the continued use of lead ammunition," said Kelly Sorenson, executive director of the Ventana Wildlife Society.

Sorenson said 12 of the 48 California condor deaths in the wild, since the reintroduction of the endangered species began in 1997, have been due to lead poisoning. Of the 12, a link to lead poisoning has been confirmed in four of the deaths, while found to be probable in four and suspected in another four, Sorenson said.

Sorenson's colleagues presented the California Fish and Game Commission the mortality figures last week at a hearing to consider its own ban on the use of lead ammunition, he said. The commission has not made a decision regarding the ban.

The most recent death occurred in August when a condor trapped at the Bitter Creek National Wildlife Refuge died while undergoing lead poisoning treatment at the Los Angeles Zoo. Tests in July showed the bird had more than 50 times the blood-lead levels to warrant emergency care in children and 10 times the amount for condors, according to Audubon California.

Pedro Nava, D-Santa Barbara, who authored the bill, said he was pleased the bill passed through the Legislature, but that he would not let up pressure once it hits the governor's desk.

Nava said the Fish and Game Commission would be acting appropriately if it changed regulations to ban the use of lead bullets in the California condor range.

"It sends a clear message to hunters that the change is going to be respected," Nava said.

But Sen. Dennis Hollingsworth, R-Temecula, predicted the bill would hurt the state's economy by discouraging people from spending money on hunting.

"This may be well-intentioned but it is sorely misguided," he told the Associated Press.

Tom Hauck, a Hollister resident and avid hunter, said the ban is a Second Amendment issue.

"This is just another way to take the guns and bullets away from the people who are responsible," Hauck said.

Researchers argue that condors ingest the lead from carcasses and gut piles left by hunters.

But Hauck, a lifetime National Rifle Association member, said burying gut piles is part of being a responsible hunter. Hauck said switching from lead ammunition to non-lead ammunition would be more costly - and that he uses either depending on what he's hunting.

Hauck contended using non-lead ammunition would result in more wounded animals because it does not weigh enough to guarantee a kill.

"By the time impact is made it's doing more muscle and flesh damage than taking them down," Hauck said.

I've got mixed feelings about this. I as a responsible hunter should be able to use what ever bullet I want.....Any comments?
 
isotopes "Similar" to lead isotopes hmmmm. I guess thats a compelling arguement NOT. I could care less about the condor, everything evolves and then when circumstances change we become extinct. our turn as humans is coming also,the grizzly left and the black bear took his place, the wolf left and along comes mr coyote and in case you haven't noticed theres a ton of buzzards in the air replaceing the condor.its the natural order of nature. have we screwwed up nature , of course but every generation since the beginning of man has impacted nature in some way.On the other hand Mr Hauck is way off base with his naieve (sp) ideology, I've got over 50 yrs in the wood's including 6 yrs a a hunter ed instructor and have yet to see a hunter bury his gut pile plus Barnes copper bullets are as or more capable of taking down game then lead and they also have tungston and other products that are actually heavier then lead. theres been a ban on lead birdshot for a long time but the hunters keep getting their game, so thats a weak arguement. As far as the 2nd amendment goes thats the right to keep and bear arms, times change and if we have to go to non-lead then so be it. We don't use lead in paint for a reason!
 
This is so much BS.
One study said that biologists found 30,000 dead animals with lead bullets in them, How would that even be possible?

If they FOUND that many dead animals, that the varmints did't eat, how many didn't they find?

The other part of the study maintained that Condors drank antifreeze that hunters left in the sand.
 
there have been condors that have been pen-raised in captivity that have had the same lead poisoning that the condors did that were in the wild. How in the hell can condors get lead poisoning if they have never been in the wild?
 
It's not perposed anymore. The Govenator signed it into law. Beginning July 1,2008 no lead bullets for centerfire weapons hunting deer and coyotes in "Condor Habitat". Looks like from Alameda county to L.A.
 
This is so much BS based on illogical thinking. Just how many gut piles are just lying out there year round,to feed all those condors?
And why aren't vultures and coyotes dropping like flies as there are many more of them and they eat the same dead carrion? In fact the population of coyotes is growing every year.
I have asked this question on other forums and of the DFG with no answer.
Stop Global Whining
 
QUESTION....HOW IS THIS NEW LAW EVEN ENFORCABLE ?? HUNTERS SHOOT LEAD AT TURKEYS, PHEASANT, QUAIL, DOVE & SQUIRRELS...HAVE THEY TRAINED CONDORS NOT TO EAT THESE BIRDS & SQUIRRELS ?? OR... ARE THE CALIF. FISH & GAME PEOPLE JUST GOING TO TRY TO ENFORCE THIS NEW LAW ON PART OF THE HUNTING POPULATION ??......YD.
 
Good question YD...


horsepoop.gif
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-08 AT 03:24PM (MST)[p] TALKED TO A FELLA THAT SAT IN ON A CA. F&G MEETING LAST WEEK. HE SAID THAT IT WONT FLY AT ALL, OR EVEN SQURRILLS & AND ALL GAME BIRDS WILL REQUIRE STEEL SHOT IN THE FUTURE....DONT KNOW IF IT WILL TAKE PLACE THIS YEAR OR 2009.....YD.
 
States going to -HIT. Just wanted to let you guys know that CCI is coming out with a non-leaded 22mag.What has a dam Condor dun for you? It did some bad thing for a ton of people.
 
What sucks is between my Dad and I, we've got about 15,000 rounds of lead .22's to shoot up in not a lot of time!! Also, how much will the cost of this new ammo cost? Will the manufacturers have to re-tool?

Steve
 
I'M STILL NOT SURE THIS IS GOING TO HIT THE LAW BOOKS BY THE NEW LIC. YEAR THE WAY ITS DRAGGING OUT IN SACRAMENTO. SEEMS HALF THOUGHT OUT/ & TOO LATE TO GET THE WORD OUT. ....YD.
 
>What sucks is between my Dad
>and I, we've got about
>15,000 rounds of lead .22's
>to shoot up in not
>a lot of time!! Also,
>how much will the cost
>of this new ammo cost?
>Will the manufacturers have to
>re-tool?
>
>Steve

I say...Rebellion!!!! Shoot em up! Just like the wolves, We bring back the Condors and we wont have any squirells to shoot!

Arnold is an idiot, I knew he was going to buckle under the pressure of all his so-cal liberal buddies as soon as I saw him.




If huntin is a sport.....Well your lookin at an athlete!
 
Has anybody ever heard of Buzzards dying from lead? If I'm not mistaken they eat the same critters condors do, I think Calif needs to stop creating jobs for the DoGooders...BBB...
 
I'm F'n HOT!!! What does those nut jobs up there in Sac.think! Put that bill up for the people to vote! Have all those that passed the bill face up and explain the reason to take ANOTHER thing away from us. Some will say "Oh it's just lead bullets" but there seems like alot of Oh it's this and Oh its just that, and Oh there go's another freedom or item that we had. What a bunch of CRAP!!!!!
You watch, condors are going to take the heat on this one. Someone is gonna be fed up with all those jackasses up there and speed up the process on those birds that mother nature had already started. It just realy bothers me to hell that everytime you turn around some ass wipe up on the hill pulls another stupid stunt like this and there go's somethig else of ours. I think that we give up enough. This has got to stop, but sad to say, we a are out numbered here in this golden state!! TRULY SAD!!!!!
 
Your right 280...Thats why I cant wait to get the hell out of here and see this state in my rear view mirror.


horsepoop.gif
 
Bucksnort....don't leave....the illegals need your tax dollars to support all their kids!

Steve
 
I BELIEVE THE LEAD BAN (HAVING TO FIND NON TOXIC BULLETS) WILL THIN OUT THE FAIR WEATHER HUNTERS IN MY NECK OF THE WOODS. I ORDERED THE TXS 4 TIMES BEFORE ANY COMPANY WAS ABLE TO FILL MY ORDER. THEY WERE NOT AVAILABLE OR ON BACK ORDER, KINDA PRICEY, AND MOST GUYS DONT WANT TO SHOOT 2 DIFFERENT LOADS/ OR EVEN MESS WITH IT FOR THE TYPE OF HUNTING WE HAVE HERE. THE FISH & GAME GUYS WILL NEED TO STOCK UP ON MORE VIOLATION BOOKS.....YD.
 

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